Unbelievable and shocking thing to do. Hope these three get tracked down.
So if anyone has spotted any of the described, you know what to do.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/yorkshire-man-rushed-hospital-mountain-085946961.html
I'm not going to excuse violence, but that's not even half a story.
What’s missing?
Everything. Apart from that fact this poor auld fella got punched, the newspaper report says nothing about what happened. Now it's possible that he may just have been minding his own business and for no other reason than; Just Because some blokes decided to have a pop, but I'll bet 50p of someone else's money there's more to it than that.
same story but not much detail
"Everything. Apart from that fact this poor auld fella got punched, the newspaper report says nothing about what happened."
It's one side of a story rushed to press but unless the other 3 are caught we're unlikely to hear the other side, but either way unless he attacked them with a weapon that is all kinds of wrong from their side.
Apart from that fact this poor auld fella got punched, the newspaper report says nothing about what happened.
Well, obviously, they are working off the police press release, and the police press release is based on what the victim of a pretty nasty assault has told them. If these fine chaps thought they were victims of something equally awful, they should have contacted the police to report a crime themselves. The fact they buggered off and left their victim with some horrible facial injuries suggests otherwise.
Hopefully these upstanding but shy citizens will be identified quickly and dealt with appropriately.
The man who police believe assaulted Mr Cummings is said to be white, aged in his late 40s or 50, about 5ft 6in and of muscular build with broad shoulders.
Officers said he had a bit of a ginger beard, and possibly tattoos.
He was wearing bright-coloured cycling clothing and rode a yellow bike.
The second man is described as white, aged over 50, 6ft tall and wearing mountain bike gear including a tight blue waterproof coat, long trousers and gloves.
The third man is described as white, aged in his 30s, about 6ft, of slim build and with dark hair.
He wore glasses, three-quarter length shorts and other mountain bike gear including a black helmet. His bike was dark in colour.
That's a remarkable amount of information to gather about three different people in presumably a short amount of time, so either the victim filmed it or the interaction wasn't just a quick altercation. And, like Nickc, seeing as people dressed as MTBers don't tend to go around beating up passers-by I'm assuming there's more to this story.
I'm surprised that nobody has said "probably Surron riders"
That’s a remarkable amount of information to gather about three different people in presumably a short amount of time
I don't agree – most people are capable of remembering stuff and there's not much that is very specific in the descriptions.
ElShalimoFull Member
I’m surprised that nobody has said “probably Surron riders“
Only applies when an "ebike" is mentioned
I’m assuming there’s more to this story.
Well there's obviously more to the story, in that we don't know which words were exchanged and in what kind of tone.
But even if the victim were (hypothetically) being aggressive and confrontational, he's still entitled to go to the police.
Another hypothetical point - sometimes arseholes meet arseholes and arseholey stuff happens.
sometimes arseholes meet arseholes and arseholey stuff happens.
I suspect this happened.
I'm more interested to know if there's any decent riding there. I thought it was just fire roads. My natural assumption regarding the assault is that it was a collision of arseholes and he came off badly.
If i post on hear saying lad has his bike nicked by by 3 blokes in forest I’d not expect a follow ups asking:
Who knows what the lad on the bike said before it was nicked?
What was his tone?
That’s because they wouldn’t be reasons to nick his bike. I’m going to say similarly they aren’t reasons to punch some one in the face
Pickering? I hear bare-knuckle fighting's all the rage
I’m going to say similarly they aren’t reasons to punch some one in the face
You may never have been in a situation that requires it or may be unwilling to if you were; but that's a very bold claim.
If those words are threats accompanied by a tone and/or body language/posture that leads me to believe an individual is about to get punchy, then the 'conversation' is moving into a different space.
Lot's of whataboutery here. all we know is a bloke got slapped by an individual from a trio, an act of assault. What we don't know is if there is any justification or mitigation as to why a bloke got slapped, or if it was an act by individual with an impulse control problem and the EQ of a brick.
3 on 1. Two of them over 6ft.
Yes, we don't have the whole story but if this part is even vaguely accurate I would say they had other options.
3 on 1. Two of them over 6ft.
Was it 3 on 1? Or were there two witnesses to the altercation who happened to be friends/acquaintances with the individual who struck the fella?
3 on 1 would imply they all gave him a pasting, which regardless of mitigation would pass muster with the law. But that didn't happen.
Maybe the victim was trying to steal someone else's bike and the owner of said bike didn't have a set of Bombers to "own him", so used his fists instead? 😉
Be interesting to hear the other side of the story, but that's not likely to happen any time soon...
Be interesting to hear the other side of the story, but that’s not likely to happen any time soon…
Probably e-bikers. Bloody scourge of the forest. 😉
Hope the bloke heals well, had similar injuries and it's bloody painful, despite whatever his actions may or may not have been.
I’m not going to excuse violence, but that’s not even half a story.
Of course it isn't, it's not supposed to be a "story". It is clearly an urgent appeal by the police for information.
You might get the whole story when the police investigation, and any possible legal processes, have been completed.
Was it 3 on 1? Or were there two witnesses to the altercation who happened to be friends/acquaintances with the individual who struck the fella?
If they just left after witnessing an assault then I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure that's also illegal.
Maybe it's not, but it's still shitty to not make sure everyone is OK.
3 on 1 doesn't mean they were all giving him a pasting. Just that the guy is going to have a hard time convincing anyone he was just using a reasonable degree of force in self-defense.
A bit more info & interview with the victim.
We still only have one side of the story but unless there were strong mitigating circumstances it sounds very much like the bikers we're in the wrong.
Maybe it’s not, but it’s still shitty to not make sure everyone is OK.
Not everyone is as virtuous as you Bruce.
Could be they're as shitty as their mate, or they felt the slap was warranted, only they will know. We're all reacting to a slither of the full picture and as Ernie points out, it may be awhile before we hear much else.
“Slapped” (in this context) is the sort of term I’d expect to be used by someone with a history of violence and a long list of excuses for it.
Ahh, El Capitan with the snide remarks, good to see you're consistent with bringing nothing of value to the discussion.
But yes I do have a long history and relationship with violence and the application of it. Also sadly dealing with it when administered illegally by those in my charge, which did lessen with time, but young men can be quick to throw hands.
As for 'slapped' it's a colloquialism, you can apply whatever context your bias allows, but if it was meant to hurt my feelings, you've got to get up much earlier in the day and have a little more flair about you.
or they felt the slap was warranted,
Hell of a slap. I've been jumped by 6 guys and ended up in hospital and I didn't have anything like this fella's list of injuries.
I think you're desperately trying to find wiggle room in something that is showing very little room for wiggling.
We still only have one side of the story but unless there were strong mitigating circumstances it sounds very much like the bikers we’re in the wrong.
Aye, sounds bloody horrible, pinned under a bike and subject to a sustained assault (or repetative slapping) after quite rightly confronting people riding where they shouldn't.
Denying people on bicycles the right to ride across 'his' countryside, should've chucked him in the burn after.
Unless they were on ebikes, that's a different matter.
On a related note, I stood next to Alan Cumming in the Inverness branch of Currys yesterday. Traitors filming is ongoing.
Hell of a slap. I’ve been jumped by 6 guys and ended up in hospital and I didn’t have anything like this fella’s list of injuries.
I think you’re desperately trying to find wiggle room in something that is showing very little room for wiggling.
Nothing desperate about it, just offering a different perspective, one you don't agree with. However, just read that link, I'm happy to stand corrected, seems he was pinned by a bike after slipping and hit repeatedly. So 'slaps' would be more appropriate. Poor fella.
Looking at the date can understand why nobody has come forward, I think they know they ****ed up. So as I offered, probably shitty humans.
I got punched once by a rather large and very drunk on grog Fijian, he put me out cold. I had similar injures.
What do we think about the phrase "illegally riding down a historic footpath" in the 2nd link?
It shouldn't take much sleuthing to figure out the exact location of that "footpath" so "we" can verify its legal status and see whether a Strava segment exists - if so, it might be possible to figure out which riders rode it on that date (if they are dumb enough to Strava it and not make it private or delete it...)
What do we think about the phrase “illegally riding down a historic footpath” in the 2nd link?
I think its a totally separate issue, maybe worthy of discussion elsewhere but not directly relevant imo to the main thrust of this thread i.e. violent physical assault.
It's not "illegal" to ride a footpath. It's lazy reporting.
It’s not “illegal” to ride a footpath.
I know, but unless you are suggesting this as some kind of justification for what this/these 'mountain bikers' did, I don't think it's relevant to the assault.
It’s not “illegal” to ride a footpath.
Mostly true, but there could be exceptions...hence knowing the exact location would be helpful
it even more rarely happens in a vacuum.
when the bike rider is lying on the ground and someone says something like that we call it victim blaming.
seeing as people dressed as MTBers don’t tend to go around beating up passers-by I’m assuming there’s more to this story.
well the “more to the story” seems to be that MTBers seem to club together with people they’ve never met before who dress a bit like them to assume “must have provoked”. to the extend that some people think assault wasn’t enough:
Denying people on bicycles the right to ride across ‘his’ countryside, should’ve chucked him in the burn after.
If they just left after witnessing an assault then I’m not sure but I’m pretty sure that’s also illegal.
Maybe it’s not, but it’s still shitty to not make sure everyone is OK.
3 on 1 doesn’t mean they were all giving him a pasting.
not coming forward, not have tried to stop their mate at the time, not having walked/cycled off whenever the initial interaction happened, not reporting to the police straight after could all be used to build a circumstantial case that the three were acting together in a Joint Enterprise - so if I was one of the other two I’d be thinking very carefully about my loyalties and having a chat with a defence lawyer to put forward my side before someone else does!
All three are in the poo poo and deserve what they get. Pasting someone is not OK in 99.9% of circumstances.
It's Yorkshire. What are expecting? Civilisation?
With the publicity this is getting in the media, mtb forums and (I'm guessing) social media, I suspect they'll be identified soon enough. I would imagine they are a little worried. Good.
Bloke already on his arse and posing no threat gets punched repeatedly , and hard enough do that kind of damage. Doesn't matter if the victim was angry and mouthing off about their trespassing, there's no excuse. If his mates don't turn him in, they're almost as bad.
I'm am in no way condoning or justifying violence.
I suspect the victim got a bit peachy, shouty at the blokes. Most riders would shout back/ignore and carry on with the ride.
One of these three riders had/has anger issues and resorted to violence. Unacceptable.
*****************************************
Now a Poopy anecdote as to why we won't know what happened till we actually know, including me.
20 years back a bloke as old as the victim here got walloped in a road my now ex lived in. The guy was an ex pub landlord and had a bit of a "reputation" that meant I tended to avoid him. Anyway, the guy and his wife lived at the end of the dead end street and he had a driveway entering into the street which some idiots occasionally thought was ok to park across with their cars. A totally dick move.
One day I'm sitting outside with my ex on a summers day and sure enough a car parks and blocks the "old" guys drive. Driver saunters off to another house in the road and goes in.
Old guy comes out fuming (I can see why) but decided to escalate. He goes to the guys vehicle and breaks off both wing mirrors and takes them in his garden and props them up at the front wall to his bungalow. Obviously wanting them to be seen.
A bit later dick car driver guy returns to his car and is not happy. Old guy comes out and confronts him at the entrance to his drive. Both start shouting, old guy denied ripping mirrors off on a "you you can see them by my door in my garden but I just picked them up, prove I didn't." sort way. Said with enough sarcasm to make sure dick car driver knew for sure who did it. Shouting continues and then the old guy threw a punch.
Then things go a bit bullet time. The punch misses, dick car owner automatically responds and lands 2 punches straight after the other. Old guy falls flat on his arse. Car driver shouts some more abuse and gets in car and drives off.
Old guy gets up and his wife was obviously watching from indoors as she rushed out. They go indoors then he comes out a bit later and loudly calls me to come over. He has a bloody lip and a bruised cheek bone. I'm no doc so no idea if that's all.
He gets a bit shouty at me as apparently I know the guy. I didn't. He says he is going to call the police and he says he expects me to tell the police what I saw. I replied, "ok, I saw a bloke block your drive, you ripped his mirrors off then threw a punch at him and he threw 2 punches back at you."
Old guy calls me a member of the banking fraternity then storms of indoors.
You just don't know till you know but being "old" is no guarantee that a guy won't get punchy.
Speculation central in here tonight so I might as well lob a controversy grenade in for the lolz. Small man with a crap ginger beard and no dress sense. No wonder he’s an angry ball of rage.
5ft 6inch... attacked by a dwarf the poor fella.
no dress sense
Well thats normal for MTBers, so im not sure what can be inferred from that.
Yellow bike though 😕
Yellow bike though 😕
Yep, that's the real crime here.
Unless the old boy attacked the guy(s) with a weapon, I'm struggling to see any rational argument that a pasting like that is proportionate.
Also finding it hard to believe a guy on his own would attack three blokes with much less than a firearm.
Sadly, I think our 'community' has been let down here.
And one thing for absolute certain - no good will come of this for mountain biking.
And one thing for absolute certain – no good will come of this for mountain biking.
+1
I'm hoping the offender was an e-biker so I can disown him
relapsed_mandalorian, I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings. I'm disgusted by your attitude but I fully understand that you don't care.
I’m hoping the offender was an e-biker so I can disown him
That's a distinction that's only relevant to some cyclists im afraid. The public just see "bike".☹️
I’m disgusted by your attitude but I fully understand that you don’t care
No doubt, it seems you spend most of your time clutching pearls up there in your middle class ivory tower.
Sleep tight princess.
I sense a beautiful relationship blossoming between Mando and the Captain.
I sense a beautiful relationship blossoming between Mando and the Captain.
I doubt he'd sully himself with the likes of me. He's far too fine a specimen of a human.
I've had older folk square up to me in the past because they thought they could challenge me when I wasn't doing anything wrong other than ride my bike. It would be so easy to respond in an angry way and it then escalate into handbags at dawn, I generally am quite polite and move on.
Acces laws are much better up here but it doesn't stop people trying to tell you off when doing something you're legally allowed to do.
You should be able to have a conversation (even a heated one) with someone without resorting to violence.
I hope the old guy heals up and doesn't have any lasting injuries.
Small man with a crap ginger beard and no dress sense. No wonder he’s an angry ball of rage.
I'd just like to point out my ginger beard is not 'a bit of a ginger beard'. It's glorious.
Also, my bike is lime green, not yellow.
I’ll put a fiver on the yellow bike being a Santa Cruz. Possibly in size XS for an accumulator.
Stupid access laws lead stupid people to do stupid things.
I can only assume that the guy criticised their choice of tyres.
I’ll put a fiver on the yellow bike being a Santa Cruz. Possibly in size XS for an accumulator.
Nukeproof Megawatt, shurely? He'd just had to lift it over a set of stiles, by the looks of it, which can't have improved his mood.
Stupid access laws lead stupid people to do stupid things.
unbelievable that you would try to blame this on access laws.
Stupid access laws lead stupid people to do stupid things.
IME, stupid people especially those with anger issues, don't need that 'excuse'.
I had an old boy about the same age as the chap who's been assaulted try to "just take a photo" of me by swinging the camera which was on a lanyard around his wrist at my face. I'd didn't fight back, (we'd been having a 'frank exchange of views' up until that point) I'm not the punchy sort, but he drew blood where it hit my nose. He thought where I was riding was a footpath. It wasn't, it wasn't an anything, just a nothing trail through the woods, and he was fed up with mountain bikers enjoying the country side in a different way to him.
I left him to it, he seemed like a wee ball of anger raging at anyone and everything, and I could hear him effing and jeffing at me until I was out of earshot. If I'm honest, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he got his lights punched out, he was a total arsehole regardless of the fact he was at least in his sixties or maybe even early seventies.
unbelievable that you would try to blame this on access laws.
Indeed. There is a disturbing undercurrent on this thread.
I’m not the punchy sort, but he drew blood where it hit my nose.
I'm not the punchy sort either but I may have been inclined to make an exception for this.
Have found what I think is the track in question and there are obvious signs that other people have had run-ins with a farmer along it. None of which excuses any violence towards him.
I'm sure police have already looked at Strava, there is one ride along the FP recorded on the day in question, perhaps this guy may have encountered the group of thugs at some point on his loop and can help with identification.
Genuinely I was so surprised, it didn't even occur to me. I just thought "I'm not having this" and rode away, it was only later after I'd stopped shaking with adrenaline, anger, fear - all those things, that I realised I could have fought back.
Stupid access laws lead stupid people to do stupid things.
Not going to blame the access laws but the issue will only get worse as Forest holiday lodges proliferate. The guy's house is in the middle of an FE forestry land area, and it also has a forest lodges site just up the road. Thats not to say those three riders have anything to do with the lodges, but I think its increasing the chances for problems in our forests.
He's got bridleways, FP and forest road in all directions. People will be out riding their bikes here there and everywhere. I sympathise with the issue he faces (assuming it is his right to request no cyclists - we've all met 'landowners' who either don't own the land they're trying to enforce rules on or want to ignore the legal rights of others on land they do own) but its only going to get worse unless something changes with how our forestry land is being newly commercialised I fear. There's plenty of people round my way living in ex-forestry cottages facing FH camps in their back yards who are quite worried about the impact it will have on the forests - often sensibly in my opinion.
cynic-al
Free Member
What’s incorrect about the phrase “illegally riding a footpath”
You're not going to be arrested by the police and prosecuted for riding a bike in a footpath. It's trespass though, which is a civil offence, the landowner can ask you to leave but that's about it.
IANAL though but I seem to remember you were or are cynic-al, so maybe I have misunderstood the rules.
"What’s incorrect about the phrase “illegally riding a footpath”?"
There's no right to ride on a footpath but that doesn't make it illegal.
If the landowner is ok with riding then it's fine, perfectly legal. If the landowner doesn't want anyone riding but doesn't inform them, it's simple tresspass, this is a civil offence only, technically illegal but impractical to prosecute. If however the land owner makes their wishes known and the rider does not comply it becomes aggrivated tresspass, only then does it become an offence that can be prosecuted.
This is between the person riding and the landowner (or their autherised rep) only, so when a random rambler says it's illegal ride on a footpath they are wrong, it's not that simple.
In this case, if there's a sign saying no riding, the victim is the landowner and the path doesn't have a legal right of access for bikes then the riders are absolutely in the wrong even before commiting assault.
'Illegal' just means 'contrary to law'. It doesn't define whether that is civil or criminal law. Using it doesn't automatically mean you're talking about a criminal offence, let alone an arrestable one.
^^^ Harry Tuttle has it. Well said.
