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I bought a set of hollow cranks back in April. The frame for them to go on arrived in May and I've ridden the bike ten times. The two halves of the non drive side crank then separated so they're now junk.
Here's some background -
- The cranks were bought from AliExpress.
- AliExpress wouldn't do anything about a return as it was more than however many weeks their returns policy runs for.
- The seller didn't respond to any contact I made with them.
- PayPal refused to refund me as I raised a dispute more than 30 days after the item was delivered and to try a chargeback with my credit card.
None of that sounded that reasonable to me, although I am aware buying from AliExpress comes with risks. I thought I'd try PayPal's suggestion of a chargeback and this was the response I got -
"Hello, we've received your dispute claim to Alipay. Unfortunately, we are unable to raise a dispute on your behalf due to no chargeback rights according to MasterCard regulations. As you have used the product up to 10 uses. Please contact the merchant directly to resolve your dispute claim."
What on earth? Is that right? Would this be the case if I'd bought the item in the UK? I assume not, my understanding was always of it's within 6 months it's up to the seller to prove the defect wasn't inherent. If that's the case, surely the number of uses is irrelevant, and if a UK seller had refused to refund a chargeback would be valid based on consumer law. Have I completely misunderstood that, and does the fact that it's AliExpress selling to the a UK buyer change any of that?
AFAIK; If you bought direct from them and imported the goods 'yourself' then UK law doesn't apply in that respect. There are some obvious caveats, you can't import stuff that's illegal in the UK because it's legal elsewhere for example, but commercial terms like distance selling and consumer protection has no validity. AFAIK.
If Aliexpress is the importer. and thus selling the good IN the UK..then they need to comply.
I've never bought direct from one of these dropshipper types.
[edit - quick google]
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/buy-from-china-aliexpress/#needtoknow-5
consumer rights only work against the retailer and if they are out of the country you have no way of enforcing them. Credit card chargeback is nothing to do with consumer rights for a defective product.
If you have a UK retailer with a uk address you could try the old letter before action to see if you can shake something out of them
Looks to me like you gambled and lost buying cheapo junk 🙂
AliExpress = Caveat Emptor.
If you bought direct from them and imported the goods 'yourself' then UK law doesn't apply in that respect.
Fair enough - and as TJ points out, I gambled and this time I lost.
I'm more curious about this as a reason to reject a chargeback claim if the item were bought from a UK seller. A lot of the time on here I read something along the lines of "if the shop doesn't get back to you about your faulty item, just initiate a chargeback". But the response to my claim suggests that this wouldn't work if you've used the item. So do other people need to watch out if they think using their credit card will give them protection in this situation?
Holy * * * *ing * * * *! You bought something off AliExpress and it broke and you're wasting time going through the reclaim procedures?
It was your gamble (buying anything direct from AliExpress is a gamble) so write it off and get on with life rather than waste time bothering others about it. There are lots of hollow cranks available - god knows why you'd want to buy some no name ones with absolutely no warranty from China. How much cheaper were they than XT or say 2nd hand RaceFace/SRAM if Carbon?
I'm more curious about this as a reason to reject a chargeback claim if the item were bought from a UK seller. A lot of the time on here I read something along the lines of "if the shop doesn't get back to you about your faulty item, just initiate a chargeback". But the response to my claim suggests that this wouldn't work if you've used the item. So do other people need to watch out if they think using their credit card will give them protection in this situation?
I'll repeat that so it's easier for you to understand Speeder.
The main reason I've had cranks from AliExpress is the low weight, aluminium arms and the absence of a 30mm axle, something that's difficult to find these days. So it's not that they're a cheap alternative to what is out there, it's that they offer a specific product that isn't available elsewhere. I've had another set last 6 years of total abuse and they've been fine.
I'm more curious about this as a reason to reject a chargeback claim if the item were bought from a UK seller. A lot of the time on here I read something along the lines of "if the shop doesn't get back to you about your faulty item, just initiate a chargeback". But the response to my claim suggests that this wouldn't work if you've used the item. So do other people need to watch out if they think using their credit card will give them protection in this situation?
UK consumer rights would protect you in that case because of clauses about being fit for purpose and the like. Not exactly 100% technically true but to all intents and purposes, because you used credit for it (I think though, above £100??) the CC company takes on fighting that argument for you, and so refund and then take back from the retailer. Fair use, intended purposes, etc.
You're effectively asking them to refund you to take it up with AE on your behalf where these protections don't apply and so AE would tell them to jog on.
Essentially if what you 'want to happen' was the reality, anyone could buy any old shite from China on a CC, claim it's not as described / not fit, the CC company refunds you and then has no recourse to the supplier. Free shite, no risk!! Not going to happen.
I'm going to venture an opinion different to the folks above. The banks said this:
As you have used the product up to 10 uses
Which is bollovks. If they had rejected your claim due to overseas or lack of jurisdiction then fair enough, but they seem to be picking one particular element which is clearly nonsense.
There is no regulation stating that credit card stops being jointly responsible for quality of items after a random 10 uses. If they're shit quality and not fit for purpose then they're shit quality and not fit for purpose. ( Unless if course the Ad said they would fail after ten rides)
IMHO
The main reason I've had cranks from AliExpress is the low weight, aluminium arms and the absence of a 30mm axle, something that's difficult to find these days.
Sorry reread my post and it was a bit ranty.
Cheap/light/strong - pick two
So it's a light 24mm axle alloy crank you're after? - MIDDLEBURN RS7-X TYPE CRANKS £199
FWIW - the 'response' from MC is either badly worded, or has been transcribed or paraphrased badly by the OP. Were they exact words, because with the staccato sentences as written i could interpret (at least) two ways by removing a full stop.
""Hello, we've received your dispute claim to Alipay. Unfortunately, we are unable to raise a dispute on your behalf due to no chargeback rights according to MasterCard regulations. As you have used the product up to 10 uses. Please contact the merchant directly to resolve your dispute claim."
Is it:
Unfortunately, we are unable to raise a dispute on your behalf due to no chargeback rights according to MasterCard regulations as you have used the product up to 10 uses.
-in which case show me the bit in the regs that says you can't make a claim on the basis of it being used (for its intended purpose and for a reasonable period)
-or-
Unfortunately, we are unable to raise a dispute on your behalf due to no chargeback rights according to MasterCard regulations. As you have used the product up to 10 uses, please contact the merchant directly to resolve your dispute claim."
-our regs only cover you for purchases of compliant goods, [words to that effect]. But here's a helpful suggestion; take it up with the supplier.
So it's a light 24mm axle alloy crank you're after? - MIDDLEBURN RS7-X TYPE CRANKS £199
And, in reference to another thread, they come in silver 🙂
would it be a good time to drop this interesting vid in here:
I'll repeat that so it's easier for you to understand Speeder.
You see, where you actually went wrong was not proactively closing down every opportunity for a forum member to call you an idiot in your initial post.
"I appreciate the gamble of buying cheap off AE...."
"I recognise that UK consumer rights might not apply...."
"I understand I won't get my money back, just curious of where the law stood...."
Of course, that wouldn't have stopped someone just reading the first couple of lines before slandering you as an idiot, but that might have a least held it off until the second page of messages.
😊
were rocks involved in the fitting?
I think if it had been a salutary tale of woe in a "don't do what I've done" kind of thing I'd have been more sympathetic but it was a written in a "is this really the situation or can anyone point to a way I could get my money back" kind of way.
It was a gamble that didn't pay off.
@otherjonv - what I quoted in the op is a copy and paste from the text they sent me. Which is the only correspondence I've had, no email, nothing in my internet banking. Generally, a very odd way of handling it.
I agree it is not reasonable to expect UK card companies to be on the hook for any shite bought from China no matter the cost. According to this link, unlike section 75, chargeback is voluntary. In that case the credit card company can set any rules (such as used more than 10 times) it wants.
The link also suggests that for chargeback on items that are faulty you need to show you have returned the item to the retailer. Good luck getting crap returned to Aliexpress at a reasonble cost and confirmation it got there.
Of course OP can complain to the Financial Ombudsman. Or just accept Aliexpress is a lottery.
https://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/credit-cards/guides/what-is-chargeback.html
I
were rocks involved in the fitting?
😃 Will TJ’s next adventure be to China & an Aliexpress warehouse mysteriously burns down?
pics and details of cranks? at least make it a PSA
So it's not that they're a cheap alternative to what is out there, it's that they offer a specific product that isn't available elsewhere.
This is true of lots of things and is a reason I've used AE myself in the past. It's crazy how often you can come up with a requirement for something that "nobody" makes/sells and you'll find it on the likes of AE.
Was I the only one chuckling* about Luke cutting out the middleman ( superstar) Nd just buying shit cranks at source ?
*Sorry Luke but I did genuinely chuckle a little
Even I recognised the irony in that 😉
Oh, and no name and shame because, as I mentioned, my other pair of these have lasted over half a decade and been treated terribly.
Never use PayPal, ApplePay or Debit Card to make a significant purchase (over £100). You chuck a whole load of rights out the window. Stick with credit cards as the issuer is jointly liable with the seller.