You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I put about half a turn into it then it snapped off, so I think it's actually been freed up unless it was made of rubber and I didn't notice.
There's about 2-3mm sticking out.
I can't get at it to drill a hole and use a screw extractor thingy.
I can't get a hammer in there to chisel it around.
I might be able to file flats on it but not easily.
My stud extractors won't work on such a short stud.
I can't weld.
The thing the bolt is screwed into is alu (it's the EGR cooler, the bolts were holding the EGR pipe on) so I can heat it up and get some differential expansion to make it easier.
I'm thinking filing flats and heating it up are the only options to remove it. Unless there's some kind of tool of which I'm not aware, or old-timer trick?
The side-bodge option is facilitated by the fact that VW seem to have put a spare pair of holes on a different axis to the two that were used. So I could buy an EGR blanking plate, cut a hole in it so it goes around the EGR pipe and bolt that on via the spare holes.
I wonder if something like this would work?
I just used those on my focus to remove rusted bolt. Good. Once they grip the grip tighter the more you turn
I'm sure they'll have endless uses so I'd probably best get some anyway. I don't see any that go smaller than 8mm (ish) - this current bolt is M8 but it'd be nice to have smaller options. I don't see myself snapping off many 19mm bolts tbh but 5-6mm maybe.
Blowtorch and molegrips,molgrips
Is there enough space to get a small hacksaw in there to saw a flathead groove into the leftover bolt? Done that many times with success
Yeah that might work.
Gonna try the thingies first I think. Gives me an excuse not to work on the car whilst they're on order.
THose extrators you linked are super useful, I love 'em, but I'd be surprised if it works here- they do like a bit more bolt/thread/whatevs to grip onto than you have. (I have the Record ones, not tried the exact ones you linked but the principle's the same)
Can you get the whole cooler off? Everything's easier on the bench than in the car
Unlike easy outs (which are shite) the Thingies are very good. Put some heat on first and 2-3mm should give you a decent chance of success...esp if the broken bit is fairly straight. If lumpy maybe not
EGR bolts can be a pig to remove, as you’ve found out. I like to soak with plus gas, then apply heat too. Then I also find it good to alternately tighten and loosen to break it free. Don’t try to turn it too far in either direction - you’re just trying to free it up. Once it starts moving then progressively loosen it, but occasionally turning back the other way too. This type of technique usually works for me. Also if it’s an Allen bolt make sure you have a good sharp Allen key, and if it’s a hex try and use a 6 sided socket or spanner (rather than 12).
All a bit late now of course!
Do you have a mig welder. If so build up weld on the remaining stud, the heat will sink down and free the threads off. You should then get a set of no pun intended molegrips on the end and unscrew. I hate extractors by their very nature they force out the bolt into the thread as you unscrew them.
I don't think you've loosened it, more likely you felt the metal reach it's elastic limit.
Another option Dremel style grinding disc to grind a slot (easier than a using a hacksaw) then Impact Driver to loosen and get it moving.
Those extractors are brilliant, get a set anyways!
However I'm not sure there will be enough for them to bite.i'd be dousing in Plusgas for a few days, then adding some heat. I've had limited success with thermal shocking by getting it super hot and then blasting with freeze spray, but have friends that swear by it.
If it's large enough you can sometimes use a hammer and punch to inch it round bit by bit.
Then stilsons/moleys to get it off.
If that falls then I usually resort to being really nice to a local person with a MIG.
Those (or the Irwin equivalents that I have) are great, used in conjunction with Wurth Rostoff and a bit of heat are usually enough for anything.
https://www.mandp.co.uk/products/wurth-rost-off-ice-rust-remover-400ml-692808
If its tight those extractors will just tear it off. They can be useful but there's no feel in them you dont know if its biting slipping or snapping.
Can you just not get the EGR off?
If the heads off, can you not remove the other bolts and then the part? Leaving a longer bolt to get to work on?
Pics?
Weld a nut on the remaining bolt. It Will probably just wind out as the heat will help
I can't weld. I don't have a welder.
It's not a head bolt, the head isn't off.
I really do think it loosened and re-bound because I undid it for about half a turn - there's no way that a bolt can twist 180 degrees before snapping.
I can put a heat gun on it, I don't want to use a blowtorch because it's in-situ.
I don't want to take the whole lot out because that means draining the coolant and taking almost all the pipes and peripheral stuff off the back of the engine.
It's like this - there's a short pipe from low down on the exhaust manifold by the turbo into the underneath of the EGR cooler, which is a horizontal slab over the turbo. Then a longer EGR pipe round the front of the engine to the EGR control valve.
This is a small pic but it shows the angle I'm working from:
They've left the gasket on, so you can see where the pipe bolts on. The interesting thing is that there are two more spare holes on the cooler which are empty. I may have to find a way to use these if I cannot get the bolt out.
Oh and one more question - what type of bolt do I need to replace it with? I don't want to use any old DIY type bolt, it might be the wrong steel or something.
Personally I think I’d be tempted to put aside a Saturday morning, remove the thing and do the job properly. Sometimes you just have to accept that’s the right thing to do. If it’s very constrained I can see that welding a nut on might not be that easy either. On the plus side you’ll get to add fresh coolant and check the condition of all the pipes. 😀
I’m not sure there’s a need for any particular bolt. I’d probably go stainless but I’m sure someone will be along shortly to tell me I’ll die.
Personally I think I’d be tempted to put aside a Saturday morning, remove the thing and do the job properly. Sometimes you just have to accept that’s the right thing to do
If I can't get it out using the thingies or a slot, then it'll have to come out so I can drill it. At least I can give it all a good clean which is what I wanted to do anyway. Of course, there's a chance I'll snap another bolt off...!
Re bolts - they aren't under any kind of stress (until I try to remove them!) so yeah I should probably just order some stainless ones.
Just be an M8 8.8 I'd imagine
Reqs copper slipping up on reassembly
If you can find someone with a stick welder they can just weld the stick to the stud, then use the stick as the handle to wind the stud out, I've had it done and it was that easy!
Failing that slot the end and hopefully there will be room to use an impact driver, at least hammer a stubby screwdriver into said slot to help break any corrosion.
Good luck, at least it's not Friday night before a bank holiday weekend which is when I traditionally break things.
If you can't get a hammer in, do you have enough space to get one of those nut remover's on it?
Good luck, at least it’s not Friday night before a bank holiday weekend which is when I traditionally break things.
Haha well we'd planned a caravan break next week so I have a few days. Plus we have to get the nod from Drakeford.
I didn't mean cylinder head, I meant head of the bolt but the pic makes it way clearer. It almost looks like you could just rotate the housing, depending on the rest of the part obvs.
Also looks like the holes go all the way through the flange?
Does the bolt protude out the back. If it did you probably did shift it until the rusty end jammed in the thread.
The EGR pipe looks sort of like this:
I can't rotate the part, but what I was thinking was that I could get one of those aftermarket EGR blanking plates, which are the right size and hole spacing - and cut a hole in the plate to admit the pipe. Then I could bolt it over the existing flange rotated to fit in the spare holes and it'd hold it in nicely.
I don't think there was a bit of bolt sticking out of the other side. But I'll check if the hole goes through - I can fill it with penetrant if so.
EDIT actually the bolt accepting part looks thin in that pic, so maybe that was the issue. I couldn't see it, so I'd have missed if it were all rusted.
I really do think it loosened and re-bound because I undid it for about half a turn – there’s no way that a bolt can twist 180 degrees before snapping.
If I'm honest, that sounds like classic 'reached limit, passed it, and then twisted and broke'. I've owned and worked on a slew of 90s jap cars, I'm very familiar with this, usually on m6 bolts somewhere under the car!
The only time it's likely to be the outcome you're hoping for, in my experience, is when the hole goes through a flange and out the other side, and corrosion on the exposed thread is jamming it. If that's the case you could try JB welding another smaller diameter bolt to it, then winding it in a bit, dousing in a light oil, then trying to back it out. When it meets resistance, wind it back in and repeat.
If the bolt does go all the way through you might also want to consider measuring and buying shorter bolts so that it ends up more or less flush with the other side...
If it is the rusty other end sticking out, filing a slot in could be good because I can just screw it back through the other side. The remaining part of the broken bolt is of course nice and clean.
If the bolt does go all the way through you might also want to consider measuring and buying shorter bolts so that it ends up more or less flush with the other side
Well a) it's going to get copaslip and b) I'm highly likely to ever do this again on this car 🙂
It’s a shame we are not all close at hand molly then you could put the kettle on and we could all stand round drinking tea while telling you what you’re doing wrong 😂
Lol, and listening to my tirade of foul language 🙂
Do you have space around the snapped bolt to use a small set of stilsons? Like a 4inch set? The 2 to 3mm of stud sticking out should be enough to grip the stud providing you have space to get the jaws in.
Alternatively as a temporary (or permanent fix), put a solid blanking plate where the pipe leaves the manifold - that stops the gas coming through so there is little or no pressure - then this one can be sealed up ok with the one remaining bolt. the egr system will no longer be functioning (which is good for the engine, slightly less good for the environment, the downside is that the yellow engine management light will come on - not an issue until mot time.
I'm not blanking it off. I've no desire to spew out even more NOx than I already do.
As for being bad for the engine - there's a little bit of soot in the valve after 160k miles, I think I can deal with that.
No chance of getting it out in situ. I cut a slot in it then realised that if is resisted enough torque to shear the head off the bolt there's no way a messy little slot and a screwdriver is going to shift it.
So I took off the intake pipework and the cooler has unbolted easily, now I'm off to buy hose clamps so I don't have to drain the whole coolant system. Turns out it also functions as a fuel cooler apparently - full of surprises this car.
Also the manifold for exhaust gas and fuel is aluminium, but the cooler itself is pressed steel so I'll be able to clean it out with Mr Muscle, which is a happy bonus as it'll mean a fully cleaned out EGR system. And since the intake pipes are all off I'll clean and check those seals. They've been leaking slightly as there's oil on them.
It's all back together now. I see some fumes coming off the back of the engine when revved up for a bit. I hope that's the coolant I spilled burning off something hot.
Be oily hand prints etc.
Should see the smoke off a new engine build.
1st time i did one I thought it was on fire...
How did you get the bolt out in the end?
I think I lost a post about this earlier - anyway:
I drilled a hole in the bolt and tried to use the extractors to pull it out, but whilst they bound in fine I couldn't shift it. So I just widened the hole and went for the tried and tested technique of smashing a screwdriver through the thinnest part of the remaining metal and bash it through. Just enough thread left in the hole to hold the bolt, I think. It held the bolt fine on the bench but not so well in the car, but I think it's going to be alright.
I'm in Kwik Fit getting the aircon re-gassed and the tracking done (unrelated to the above). Throttle response seems better after the turbo clean, and it's nice and smooth perhaps with a better breathing EGR system.