[Closed] Crap work drug and alcohol policy

You do realise the implications here? Someone may actually have to spend thirty seconds updating the document and getting the boss to sign it, again? You're one of these trouble makers aren't you?

The thing is, we buy wine, prosecco, whisky etc for peoples birthdays all the time, bring it on to site and have presentations like any normal work place.

We've been assured that this is all fine and we can carry on as always and nobody will get in trouble for it, but surely the policy should reflect what actually happens in the work place rather than rules that have to be selectively enforced?

I think you're 100% right. What's the point of having such a strict policy if you're not expected to comply with it? I'd escalate it to the highest level - as it is it's just making management look clueless.

No, don't sign. A contract is agreement between both parties and you are clearly not in agreement.
Thin end of the wedge, if you do sign against your conscience

Ours is not very good either.

My workplace would be vastly improved if you could show up ripped to the tits on Class A drugs.

See also: Company Hooker Policy - equally draconian.

Suck it up and sign it, as life is too short. If your really bothered let someone else bring the booze in when it's someone birthday. You can then forget about it and concentrate on the job in hand, planning your biking at the weekend!!

Do you like your job? Is there any point in being a pita? For the rare occasion you talk about find another way, so the presentations off site or something

Yes, but I presume that the people who are bringing booze as gifts for other peoples birthdays etc, are then not consuming it on site. Yes ?

Again (I'm presuming), the idea is to crack down on people being drunk/stoned at work which is a bad thing (which you agree on), but they're not going to crack down on people who may bring alcohol onto site, but not actually drink it on site. This will be a common sense matter for managers to deal with, and they will be clearly able to differentiate between the two.

Did I get that right ? If so, what's the problem ?

Do you work in a night club, Perchy?

what's the problem

I don't like you. I'm the boss. What's that in your hand? For Terry's Birthday? **** off, you're fired.

Sign it. Ask for a waiver from management and HR everytime is someone's birthday, Xmas etc. Do that often enough and they'll soon get pissed off, at which point the policy will quietly disappear.

It sounds like a load of you will bend over and take any old rotten deal if it means an easy life.
Sod that, stand for something or fall for everything

It is unlikely that you are signing that you agree to the rules, more likely that you are signing that you are aware of them.

They do not need your agreement to enforce such rules.

I think every company I have worked for in the past 20 years has had such a policy. When I have had to deal with it, my method has been to emial hr a couple of days in advance along the lines of "old George is retiring, on the 20th we will be presenting him with a bottle of old tonsil tickler whiskey, as the company policy states that under normal circumstances alcohol is not allowed on site, would an exception be allowed for this event"

Sign it, and don't bring booze in as a present.

Is it such a big deal?

We have a no booze policy for our office - however, we also have a staff shopping mall in our building which has a Londis store. Guess what.... they sell booze.
Never been able to work that one out.

stand for something or fall for everything

Im playing this game just now ...... only i will stand to lose my job either way so go down swinging.

But the above - wouldnt bother me in the slightest.

Makes me laugh we have a similar policy - but it also goes on to state i cannot carry firearms in my vehicle on company business.....

Do you work in a night club, Perchy?

It's just like a night club.

Except during the day and with less music and dancing. Also, no drink or drugs. Very few women either.

More desks and computers than you would normally expect in a nightclub now that I have proper look around..... and a photocopier.

Got a radio with Magic FM on it though, so yes. Night Club.

Glitter Ball?

I think I'll give your place a miss if that's ok

what's the problem
I don't like you. I'm the boss. What's that in your hand? For Terry's Birthday? **** off, you're fired.

But surely this comes under a common sense clause. It's kind of obvious if you're drinking on the job, and again if you're bringing in a bottle to give to someone else as a present. If that scenario was played out here, you'd have a very good case for constructive dismissal. ^^ That's just being a really bad manager who clearly can't differentiate between the two.

Unfortunately I can relate, having had some really bad / thick managers in my time, but I think this might be an over reaction. Surely it's not actually that draconian ?

It sounds like a load of you will bend over and take any old rotten deal if it means an easy life.
Sod that, stand for something or fall for everything

[img] [/img]

Yer, stick it to the man.

In reality yes, but as they're a small company surely it's a piece of piss just to change it so it's right?

If that scenario was played out here, you'd have a very good case for constructive dismissal.

It's not constructive dismissal if they actually fire you. It's dismissal. And you'd appeal that.

Anyway, whilst I understand the OP may want to bring a few bottles of moonshine in for a giggle but not drink any, I'd sign the paper and get the agreement of the company at a later date if needed. We have a "no drinking" policy but waive it occasionally (Xmas, leaving dos etc) but in the past before we had the no drinking policy, one member of staff who has since left would celebrate her birthday with 10am bubbly or spirits with the express statement that her contract didn't prohibit drinking, just being drunk.

In reality yes, but as they're a small company surely it's a piece of piss just to change it so it's right?

Depends. They may have paid an external lawyer a load of money to draw it up (or more realistically, take it out of a drawer) and don't want to have more expense.

[I]I think you're 100% right. What's the point of having such a strict policy if you're not expected to comply with it? I'd escalate it to the highest level - as it is it's just making management look clueless. [/I]

+1

I remember years ago there was a train driver who at his retirement do had a drink, and then was disciplined. Even though he was finished driving he was still 'on duty'.

In a previous job we'd had new contracts issued and a few of us wouldn't sign them. We were all quite senior people. After a bit of too-and-froing Management agreed to change a lot of the contentious clauses. Some were still left but I got advice and it said that they were pretty much unenforceable, so I signed.

In reality yes, but as they're a small company surely it's a piece of piss just to change it so it's right?

If any of the directors or senior managers are any good at actually managing a business, they'll appreciate the fact that someone had the common sense to point out the glaring error with this policy. That will require humility from whoever wrote the policy but I wouldn't be surprised if it's mostly a copied and pasted policy from something similar online.

Boss says to manager X, we need an alcohol/drug policy for reason Y, can you make one and get everyone to sign it? Manager X groans and knocks something up quickly without much thought. Employee Z points out that it's not suitable for how the company works, manager X feels stupid now but in the longterm is glad he's not going to be made to look like an idiot every time someone has to bring an alcoholic gift in...

[i]We have a no booze policy for our office - however, we also have a staff shopping mall in our building which has a Londis store. Guess what.... they sell booze.
Never been able to work that one out. [/i]

Is it a rather large building in Brentford? 😉

There should be no line in the policy about brining booze on site. A simple line stating that alcohol is not to be consumed during work time or on company premises should be sufficient.

Have they perchance included booze and drugs in the same line i.e. Alcohol and Drugs may not be brought onto company premises or sites.? For illegal drugs that makes perfect sense, also do they clearly state illegal drugs or define that drugs means illegal drugs?

Understand that a lot of companies have this in place now to ensure that anyone with an alcohol problem can be helped/kicked out. Delete as appropriate.

one member of staff who has since left would celebrate her birthday with 10am bubbly or spirits with the express statement that her contract didn't prohibit drinking, just being drunk.

Seems fine as long, as she isn't in charge of anything heavy.

I spent a few days working in a factory in Spain that made and tested stuff for cars (doors, seats, sunroofs etc). Lots of heavy moving machinery.

Not only did they sell beer from the vending machines, they also took a nice relaxed two hour lunch with wine. 😯

BR, yep, you're on the money 🙂

Also has the only local bike store that's any good 🙂

Don't sign it and turn up to work drunk with a 2L bottle of White Lightning in your hand.

Clearly your current signed contract doesn't disallow this as the new one stipulates it.

Seems fine as long, as she isn't in charge of anything heavy.

TBH, leaving her in charge of a keyboard stone cold sober was a bit hit and miss never mind if she'd had to handle machinery.

How things change 30 yrs ago when i first started night shift in a shipyard ,it turned out Thurs night was "can night" for a few of the established tradesmen, some polishing off 8 cans while carrying out a bit of work, they would then go to the local pub at 7.30am with their cash wages they`d just collected, where they would serve you beer as long as you bought a bacon butty!!One highlight was one lad waking up in his sleeping den at 10.30am and having to stay hidden before walking out at lunchtime with the day shift!!Happy days!!

on and on - Member
BR, yep, you're on the money

Is this the 'House' I hear so much about?

Every office needs to have a jobs worth I guess.

That's the one. Awesome company and the building is truly an exceptional place to work.

I've never been...or invited 🙁

There's a of us on here, it seems.

Bless you all. Shall I create a STW meet up 🙂

Sounds like a plan! Hamsterley good for us Northern lot.

Simple answer

Get out a pen

draw a single straight line through the section you disagree with (the bit on bringing alcohol into work) but retaining the bit about not consuming it at work

date and initial the line you have put through it

sign the bottom of the form and hand it in.

Job jobbed, everyone happy... and if they're not, then you are teflon, as you've been more than reasonable.

This will be a [b]common sense[/b] matter for [b]managers [/b]to deal with, and [b]they will be clearly able to differentiate[/b] between the two

I spot a teeny weeny little bit of a problem...

That's the problem with policies that are open to interpretation and that are reliant in discretion to enforce. People don't always agree, and nefarious underhanded people are very good at interpreting things in ways which suit their goals, especially when disciplinary measures are involved.

If there are exceptions to a policy that mean it won't be enforced, then the policy either needs to include those exceptions or be re-worded. Otherwise you're into a very murky world of being able to demonstrate that a policy is not always enforced, with all the issues that can bring, and also possibly compromising other policies if you can demonstrate that the company has a history of ignoring it's own directives.

I know life isn't always as simple as that but it doesn't make the points any less valid. The policy as it stands is inadequate if 'some things' are to be ignored.

Sounds like standard management bullshit by somebody with too much time on their hands.

"We haven't got a policy, so we'd better write a policy. But we can't actually bothered to think it through properly"

Being drunk or stoned at work would be covered under normal efficiency or H&S rules, why do you need a separate policy document?

You could be really picky and ask if the non alcohol rule applied to stuff like bottles of perfume, meths etc.

This will be a common sense matter for managers to deal with, and they will be clearly able to differentiate between the two

Despite HR being a bit huffy about me not signing it, I emailed the SVP on site who agreed and is getting the policy rewritten, result 😀

so what's up with being stoned in work? 😆

1) Sign it so as not to put yourself at the top of the next redundancy list.

2) Never, ever, trust anyone who says "it's fine, we'll never actually enforce it"

3) DO NOT be the mug who gets caught bringing alcohol into work.

^^ 2 posts up from mine, before you respond to the original post! It's resolved.

We had a similar policy at my old place. One Christmas, our (idiot) manager, called us all down to the car park. Opened her boot (car boot) and handed out bottles of whiskey in the car park. Bloody stupid. I was on my bike that day, so couldn't take it.

One place I was at, software office job, had a policy of no booze at lunch off site. Group of you going to a pub for during lunch break and you're not allowed alcohol. Not even a half with a meal. WTF!

Daft thing is sometimes they'd go just to go to the pub and have a social drink, not a meal. What's the point of that if you can't drink?

Most places I've been, the boss invites everyone to the pub for lunch and is buying rounds!

I don't agree at all with any policy or contract that states what you can and can't do outside of the office. Aside from slagging off the company in public.

trail_rat - Member

Makes me laugh we have a similar policy - but it also [b]goes on to state i cannot carry firearms in my vehicle on company business.....[/b]

I've bought a shotgun at lunch time and taken it around the rest of my visits for the day locked in the boot of the car before before I've gone home - perhaps I need to read my company policy in depth. I've often transported guns on work time as it happens, hmmmmm.

I used to work at a large site which had a strict rule about not bringing alcohol on site.

Didn't mention brewing it though.

It's not the OP that's causing trouble or being difficult is it? The company has admitted their policy is stupid. You don't need to make a big scene or "cause trouble", you're just pointing out where the trouble already is- politely explain in writing that you're not prepared to sign it as it stands for this specific reason, and explain the amendments that would make it acceptable to you, and then it's their move again. You do need to be clear that you've got no issue with the sane parts of the policy, it's only the bit that they claim they won't enforce anyway.