probably a really numpty question but most of the craft breweries in these parts (Victoria Aus') either simply don't offer a lager/pilsner style beer or maybe (if I'm lucky) offer only one whilst offering umpteen IPA or PA variants I get the sour beers can be unique as can porters so have no problem with other beers and don't mind an occasional pale ale just that sometimes what I really want is nice cold lager style beer .... is there a good reason or is it simply that I'm out of order and got poor taste?
It's not trendy enough for the hipsters
To properly make lager you have to leave it to ferment for a loooooong time, like months, at a very low temperature. I guess that's pretty impractical for small craft breweries, who need to make stuff and sell it reasonably quickly to keep their cashflow going.
and, the craft beer market is all about mouth-strippingly hoppy, head-splittingly strong IPAs...
I'll be glad when they go back to making beer again, rather than paint stripper.
one of my local breweries does one, the very tasty Stirchley lager (and i usually don't like lager)
https://www.birminghambrewingcompany.co.uk/our-beers
the craft beer market is all about mouth-strippingly hoppy, head-splittingly strong IPAs…
I’ll be glad when they go back to making beer again, rather than paint stripper.
they also do a 2.2ABV bitter too which is lovely
Think it is a mix of the not currently trendy and also the time/space required to do the job properly. Plus there does seem to be a habit amongst many craft beer drinkers to try something new. So having a whole bunch of changing IPAs matches that need.
I'm not usually a lager man, but had a very pleasant "Craft Lager" from Williams Bros with my tea last night.
https://www.williamsbrosbrew.com/beer/craftlager-can
Not much help to you in Australia, I know.
Quite a few of the WA breweries do Kolsch style beers which are pretty close to a lager but a bit more forgiving to brew in a warm climate.
Not quite craft anymore but the Little Creatures Pilsner is rather lovely and the Brights also a proper refreshing pint.
Maybe look for keg beers rather than cask, they tend to be more carbonated and lager like.
So a pale blonde keg.
I'm probably a heathen but I don't usualy fancy a flat ale.
Maybe look for keg beers rather than cask, they tend to be more carbonated and lager like, but much more flavour.
So a pale blonde keg.
I'm probably a heathen but I don't usualy fancy a flat ale.
I was going to say Kolsch. Like a lager, but a bit more hop and can take a warmer ferment. Still lovely though.
You could probably push a pilsner/lager through quicker, but it might not taste as clean and then customers won't drink it. Safer to go for something that will take a bit of warmth and get it out quick.
It's also just that for many years lager was the default drink, so people are looking to do something different.
I don't think IPAs are really that hipster any more are they? I'm sure the real hipsters are on something way more niche.
What's wrong with VB? 😉
To be fair, I didn't even drink that when I lived in Australia for a time as a young 'lager lout' (not really but I certainly wasn't fussy about the beer I drank back then and almost any lager would do).
Went back a few years ago as a committed IPA drinker. Tried a Tooheys for old times sake. Jesus wept, it was bad. Bought a six pack of Carlton Cold, drank two, couldn't face the others. And a six pack costs a fair wedge in Australia or it did then and I'm not one to waste beer as a rule.
Anyhow, none of this helps you. Hope you find your nice cold lager.
As above, it's a slower and more complicated process. The word lager literally means to store (in a cellar or cave generally) in German.
It doesn't take months anymore thanks to refrigerated tanks and more sophisticated control systems. I've even made them at home using my keezer.
It's probably not even slower than a lot of sour beers or stronger beers. But I doubt the market would stomach 'craft lager' costing £4/can like shouts and sours.
FWIW, when I decided to brew one the first thing I did was buy a load of commercial lagers to get some ideas of what I actually like. Yes some are absolutely disgusting (Corona, Fosters). But if you put snobbishness asside there are good examples too (and not just the faux craft pilsners like Moretti). You can even get a "world beer" advent calendar at costco which is mostly lagers, again some horrible examples, but some lovely ones too.
So the real reason might well be that unlike the dearth of real ale 20 years ago that kick started the craft beer market. There isn't a lack of good lager.
Definitely no craft lagers / pilsner at my favourite local craft brewer. Definitely not the same price as the rest of the beers.
Cold matured, crisp, complex and undeniably crushable, Zealous is an authentic pilsner style lager, brewed by our resident German Master Brewer and lagered for 65 days in tank for a nuanced flavour experience.
We sell a few in our shop, Stroud brewery, cavel & hind & Cotswold brewery. But they don't sell any way near as much as the ale..... Problem is they cost around 50p more a bottle than 'regular' larger.
Not quite craft anymore but the Little Creatures Pilsner is rather lovely and the Brights also a proper refreshing pint.
I was going to say exactly this - it was the only really nice beer I had when I spent a month in Oz a couple of years ago.
Also worth trying APAs/American Pale Ale beers, they come close to being a Nice Cold Lager.
As mentioned above, it's a technically difficult and time/energy consuming beer to brew (the light flavours leave no room for covering up mistakes!).
Market-wise it is a little more difficult to differentiate yourself and you also have a shed load of well known, cheap competitors out there!
So if you can't make it a totally outstanding lager that will be noticed and appreciated then it's harder to get folk to pay more for it as your cost price is so much higher than the big breweries who specialise in it.
I generally just aim for something that is made in Germany or Czech Republic (and not brewed in your home country under license).
The Germans also have purity laws called Reinheitsgebot which limit the adjuncts you can put in, so they tend to be tastier!
I don’t think IPAs are really that hipster any more are they?
IMO, IPA, or India pale ale, has become a rather ubiquitous term and doesn't really mean anything any more.
Origeonaly designed for british colonials in india, to survive the sea voyage without going off, and as brewing regualar ale in india in those days with thier climate and no environmental control was problematic.
There's greene king IPA for example, the £1.99 weatherspoons special which tastes like luke warm dirty dish water, which has been around seemingly forever, and bares absoutley no resemblence to many more modern 'IPAs'.
I’m sure the real hipsters are on something way more niche.
Yep, I like more USA style modern IPA, which are often very lager like, but with more taste than lager/pilsner... or Gose beer, or fruit beers like timmermans or baccus, or Weiss beers 😀
I don't think it's really classed as "Craft" these days, and i'm not sure on global availability either, but as a non lager drinker i've always quite liked Camden brewery's Helles.
Becks isn't too bad either, definitely not "Craft" but surely available almost anywhere.
Yep, I like more USA style modern IPA, which are often very lager like,
I'm trying to get my head arround this statememt?
East Coast IPA is hopped to the point of being cloudy, and has to be drunk fresh as a result otherwise oxidation ruins it. West Coast IPA is probably what IHN had in mind when describing as paint stripper. 6%+, 80+ IBU, shitloads of hops, it's the IBUs not the hops he probably hates in that case (paintstripper generally containing bitrex) so should probably try a east coast version though.
You might be confusing them for steam ale which is a lager brewed at room temp. Or cream ale, which is a low strength bitter that's been lagered. Which are both American inventions.
I might be getting my terminology mixed up, I'm not that much of a hipster hahah 😀
I guess my point was that 'IPA' covers a vast amount of different strengths and different tasting beers, so the term itself doesn't really tell me much.
Australia in shite beer shocker 🤣
I actually think pilsner etc is pretty trendy at the moment, I've had loads of different craft ones lately (in the UK)
correct, it's classed as "flavourless sellout pisswater" 😃I don’t think it’s really classed as “Craft” these days, and i’m not sure on global availability either, but as a non lager drinker i’ve always quite liked Camden brewery’s Helles.
Speaking of sell outs, magic rock is now owned by a huge Australian company.. @antigee is that available to you, give thier highwire or highwire grapefruit a try or for a really hot day, thier salty kiss (very sharp but refreshing).
Keg though! Not cask. Or the canned tins.
Yep, I like more USA style modern IPA, which are often very lager like,
I think he probably means that they are often highly carbonated and light in body compared to a traditional IPA. I had an 'IPA' in S Africa which to me seemed just a hoppy lager.
It’s a WA brew but I’m pretty sure they supply nationally… try Beer Farm’s IPL, yup, India Pale Lager. Try the DIPL for added greatness. $32 per 4 pack but something like 8.5% ABV so you’re not drinking many.
What about Furphy or Goat? Not craft but good for something crisp.
I think he probably means that they are often highly carbonated and light in body compared to a traditional IPA. I had an ‘IPA’ in S Africa which to me seemed just a hoppy lager.
Yes that's what I meant... I just didn't articulate it very well 😀
Craft lagers are getting more popular - Siren do 4:
https://www.sirencraftbrew.com/browse/beers/cf-6-Lager/
I've been working my way through various German things at our beer shop - they have a man who brings over cases of different beers directly. Enjoying the Märzen and Kolsch styles.
Brewing my first lager at the moment and wondering why I bothered. Not a huge fan of lager...generally tasteless - refreshing in the right circumstances but nowhere near the flavour profile of a good beer - to me at least. And take a while to brew so in the commercial environment you either speed up that process and end up with a Carling or do it properly and end up with a beer that is too expensive to sell in volume.
Despite the growth in craft beer and the new US IPA styles which are all the rage right now...and rightly so as they are delicious, the best selling beers in the UK remain the tasteless, highly processes and additive filled supermarket lagers. Quite depressing really, people drinking beer not because they actually enjoy the flavour of it, but because its a social activity to do down the pub or in your garden with mates and a BBQ. This is borne out by independent breweries brewing decent beer, when bought out by big commercial breweries tweaking their recipes to mass produce them and totally ruining the beer.
But to be fair most independent breweries do offer a lager or two...not a huge variety compared with the other styles, but they brew what people want to drink...most lager drinkers don't want to pay £4 for a 330ml can of lager when they can get a 12 pack for about a fiver.
I've only done one lager and that was a Czech Pilsner which is a more malty, hoppy thing to a traditional one. I ended up doing a large hopstand with almost all of the fresh hops I got from the plants in the garden last year and it turned out pretty ok.
I do prefer something with moderate bitterness and a bit more hop flavour though and, these days with the hot weather, something that is lower ABV and fruity/sour, hence the 4% mango sour that's conditioning at the moment.
Despite the growth in craft beer and the new US IPA styles which are all the rage right now…and rightly so as they are delicious, the best selling beers in the UK remain the tasteless, highly processes and additive filled supermarket lagers.
But to be fair most independent breweries do offer a lager or two…not a huge variety compared with the other styles, but they brew what people want to drink…most lager drinkers don’t want to pay £4 for a 330ml can of lager when they can get a 12 pack for about a fiver.
True, although the 'not lager' beer sections in supermarkets now have things like camden and beavertown etc. whilst these companies are too big to be classed as craft/artisan/boutique hahah... it definatly shows a shift in taste if supermarkets are stocking beers that are not football grade lager or the boring old stuffy beer choices of bombadier or old speckled hen or doom bar.. or 'cooking beer' as my mate refers to it hehehe.
It's slowly getting better, but yeah I agree this is an issue!
MrsDoris has no interest in craft ales and hates IPAs etc. She would happily accompany me to one of the many local taprooms in Bristol, if she could get a decent pilsner type beer. But it's rare!
The closest one to us now does do a pilsner - after about 7 years - but most still don't.
I don’t think IPAs are really that hipster any more are they? I’m sure the real hipsters are on something way more niche.
Yeah it seems to me over the last couple of years that all the really hip beers have moved on from eyewatering IPAs with an IBU of 14890380328000 to Chocolate Coffee Milkshake Stout Porters (11.5% abv) that taste like children's breakfast cereal
Küpers Kölsch and Früh Kölsch are both excellent.
MrsDoris has no interest in craft ales and hates IPAs etc. She would happily accompany me to one of the many local taprooms in Bristol, if she could get a decent pilsner type beer. But it’s rare!
The ones I frequent dont have lager, but they do keep a few bottles of red & white wine on hand for the children/ladies :O
and, the craft beer market is all about mouth-strippingly hoppy, head-splittingly strong IPAs…
I’ll be glad when they go back to making beer again, rather than paint stripper.
Its grim isn't it. I like the most pretentious artisinal beers going I'll pay through the nose for soemthing a bit different. But I absolutely hate hoppy beers. I'd rather drink water. They give me a stinking headache and make me want to gip.
ITs not the strength either as I am quit content with somethign 8 or 9 percent if its malt and delicious. I love this stuff https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/24/36 can drink it all day long (thats 2 bottles for a lightweight liek me)
I'm holding out for an invite to yourguitarheros brewery pissup. I have technically known him longer than all of you lot so should get first dibs. (unless you only do heavy hopped YGH in that case I am out.)
Neilco with a solid recommendation for Beer Farm. Also from WA Eagle Bay do 2 lagers and a kolsch and you can probably get the Colonial Kolsch over on your side as well? Not as clued up on the East coast lot but 4 Pines in Manley do a good kolsch.
And its not a lager, but Stone & Wood is just a ruddy wonderful beer.
or Coopers greens? Its called a pale I think but its very much its own thing. We used to get through vast amounts amounts of those up in the Pilbara.
[Pleb]Have you tried the Cypriot Keo?
IMO a hybrid beer / lager (30:70) and very refreshing at 6-8 deg C.
Available at Morrison's.[/Pleb]
Here in surrey our local brewery, Pilgrim (Reigate) do a pleasant lager, which came on tap a couple of years ago, and a very drinkable Kolsch style from I think early last year.
So the markets there. And in hot weather, its lovely to support a local business, whilst enjoying a superior product at the same time.
@antigee - if you're looking for Pilsner then an old mate of mine in Melbourne, Pete "Professor Pilsner" might set you straight.
Prof Pilsner
He's a big fan of the Bad Shepherd pils i think.
... and if you're ever up in God's Country there are plenty of lagers around then check out Heads of Noosa - they only brew Lagers. Some of them are actually nice too 😛
The other Noosa breweries do Lagers too, and Brouhaha in Maleny sell a fair bit, Black Flag at Maroochydore ... etc, etc.
@joshvegas - once I go commercial I'll be doing barley wine in the English style (i.e. less hoppy than the USA style) packaged in small bottles (175ml) at 10% abv, so that sounds like you might be my ideal customer!
Ferry Ales Brewery do a lager - not sure how widely available but they deliver.
https://ferryalesbrewery.co.uk/products/lincoln-lager?_pos=1&_sid=def7fee31&_ss=r
https://arborales.co.uk/product/arbor-lager/
https://www.lostandgroundedstore.co.uk/shop/p/mixed-lager-box
I can recommend all of the above.
I know it's OT but while we're talking drinks can anyone recommend a 2%ish cider? I had some in France that was delicious but never really seen something similar here.
I found this but not really about to drop £52 on it
https://www.seacider.co.uk/shop/seacider-low-tide-10-litre-bag-in-box-craft-cider
cheers will look out for Kölsch style...suspected a combination of fashion and harder to brew
Mountain Goat is one of the nearest craft breweries to me and their lager is now brewed by Asahi at the VB plant and distributed in huge volumes I guess it helps fund the continued existence of the craft brewery then its as sort of OK thing...good news is number of new places opening up continues and i still haven't got round all the localish (that is cyclable from home) ones yet... must try harder
scotroutes
Full Membe https://speyvalleybrewery.co.uk/beers/1814-lager/index.html
/blockquote>+1814
@reeksy - thanks for clicky link - Bad Shepherd is on my way back from the bay and the now not so younger antigee plays beer league Ice Hockey and Bad Shepherd is a main sponsor and they deserve my support
edit and might head up to Noosa for some spring riding so notes taken
Sweet. Let me know if you want a tour guide 😊
My local brewery do a cracking Pilsner which has the additional benefits of looking cool when you take it out on the hill (it's branded as "Distant Hills") and being available for nationwide delivery: https://www.howardtownbrewery.com/shop/p/distant-hills-pilsner
Bellfield Brewery in Edinburgh are currently doing 4 different varieties of lager.
That new furphy lager is pretty good for a regular in the fridge type beer.
Where abouts in Vic are you? I think places like stomping ground are a bit cool for a lager but somewhere like moon dog would do one wouldn't they?
Or just go daaaan the pab instead of a brewery and have a Carlton 😉
^^^Melbourne...leafy SE innerish suburbs
Memory says Stomping Ground do a good Pilsner...Moon Dog's mega world beach warehouse thing is 2minutes off the trail for me if heading home from riding out north and like all the "big guys" do a lager plus something described as "tropical lager" so 2 out of think 50+ beers
Was asking because noticed a newly opened taproom at Deeds Brewery (Glen Iris and 30m off the main easterly trail out of the city) doesn't have any lager style brews same as another small brewery I recently found 50m away from my return route from building thirst in the Dandenongs add that to the guy behind the bar at Beechworth Brewery looking like I'd asked if I could toss his dog off when all I'd asked if had any other lager's than the one I'd already had - genuine question fashion or harder to brew - answer seems to be bit of both
Good news is that someone posted a useful link to Professor Pilsner and a big thankyou as listed a newly opened brewery near the Frankston trails which does a pilsner and I'm going soon
edit "someone" = @reeksy
