I noticed that Sainsburys over the last few months have pushed out half the perfectly good 500ml bottled ales and replaced them with 330ml cans of 'Craft Beers'. And the bottled ales that are left are mainly the mainstream ones.
Now these craft beers may be lovely and tasty but it seems you a) get less and b) pay a lot more for them. I assume the supermarkets love the profit on them.
Does having the cans printed with snazzy graphics designed by a A level student after a night on drugs make them 50% betterer! 🙂
#slightlymiffedoldduffer
Beer out of cans IMO / INE tastes nasty anyway. Its a widespread move the move to 330ml but one I will not jooin.
I’ve noticed this and not just in Sainsbury’s. I think the reason they are in tins is to help with freshness; helpful for those fresh beers with a bit of sediment. But I could’ve read it wrong.
economics init
The craft beers sell well, cost less money to move around, less space on shelves, better margin of return
The mainstream producers are moving into this market too either with their own faux hipster brands or buying up craft producers.
I'm more bothered about taste than volume so personally i'm happy with this
A 330ml can is the same size as a standard Bud/Mexibeer/Continental Lager bottle, so it's not that uncommon a size. It does appear to be £3 a can vs £2.50 a 500ml bottle... although many of the 'craft' ales can be bonkers strong, so what you lose on the volume, you gain in buckets of hops and ethanol...
Whats worse is whens it's a newfangled shitey IPA lol.
Morrisons have a much better range of ales and beers. They're also not ditching butchers, fish mongers etc in favour of wrapping everything in plastic.
Find a local beer shop or, better still, a small indy brewery with a shop.
The move to tins is being driven by the weight of glass; freight costs and all that stuff.
To quote Bill Clinton...'It's the economy, stupid'; it usually is.
Beers of Europe are worth a look.
It's the price difference that annoys me - they can work out 80-90% more expensive per ml - and there can't be that much difference in production costs.
Perhaps the mark-up is to cover beard maintenance for the brewery employees.
From my own dubious home brewing making the very hoppy beers, especially with dry hopping can end up quite expensive to make. Certainly making a basic bitter at home is cheap but a big mix of fancy hops adds up in the end.
Plus beer duty scales by alcohol so the typically stronger canned craft beers will be more.
It's nice to have the choice, there are some lovely bottled and canned beers about. We have some good pubs nearby doing hand pull & keg takeaway. Hopefully soon we'll be able to drink them in the pub again - sensibly/safely as well as technically legally.
For the 'how much?!?' brigade - I've got a 330ml can of beer in my fridge that cost me £8
Morrisons have a much better range of ales and beers.
Second that. I find Sainsburys generally have the worst selection out of the traditional supermarkets, but then I try and buy direct from the local breweries if I can, which perhaps isn't quite as cheap, but I guess helps them a bit more.
Cuts weight, more easily recycled, fresher beer and, for me at least, a preferable portion size.
I for one am happy to pop cans in the blue bin rather than have to traipse down to the village hall.
and there can’t be that much difference in production costs.
My sister was the finance director of a mid-size craft brewers - there's a MASSIVE difference in the production costs between the craft brewers doing relatively small batches and the big brewers with their production facilities.
Aldi and Lidl for the win, they may not have the same ponce factor but I find their 330 ml cans quite nice and they do some others that have a less than offensive slant to them that I can get on board with
Actually, I always keep an eye in Homebargains too, they do some half decent beers from time to time that are stocked in Sainsburys for double and triple the price. Just last year I stocked up on Brooklyn and Founders IPA's for about 80p a can, but it is your Donald Duck what they have
Has beer gone the same way as sugary things? Like, what’s happened to Stella? Used to be a nice lager, picked a four pack up recently and it was like pish. Wish they’d just put the price up rather than mess with the product. See also Special Brew, Coco Pops etc.
Do like that Brewdog Double Punk tho.
There's a number of reasons driving the change to cans, cost and environmental impact (bauxite mining excluded unless made from reycled aluminium). The cost of transporting glass compared to aluminium cans is considerable diferent. More cardboard or plastic packing is needed for glass to protect it during transit. Glass is heavier than aluminium, using aluminium will reduce the fuel costs for the comparable amount of product shipped. A standard can is 115mm tall a standard (non stumpy) 330ml bottle is 225mm in height, therefore you can stack more in the space. 330ml cans are more stable on a pallet than 330ml glass bottles.
It's why you'll find that a lot of table wine is shipped to the UK in IBC's/palecons and bottled and labelled over here, rather than at origin. It's way cheaper to ship a 1000 l plastic container than 1300 glass bottles.
Agreed with all of the above - Morrisons does have local beers (we get hebden breweries in N Manchester) and Co-op do the same, it's driven by the depot your local shop is serviced from.
Better to support your local indy brewery (I think I've kept Brightside afloat during lockdown 🙂 )
Beer tastes just as good from a can as it does from a bottle once it's poured out into a glass (willing to die on that hill I am) and cans weigh less. AndrewL is right about the hops, they are properly expensive when you consider that they are essentially a fancy beer tea bag.
I fancy a beer now.
Like, what’s happened to Stella? Used to be a nice lager,
No it didn't.
picked a four pack up recently and it was like pish.
Ever was it thus.
You're just not 16 anymore.
fresher beer
bollocks
although many of the ‘craft’ ales can be bonkers strong, so what you lose on the volume, you gain in buckets of hops and ethanol…
Yeah, the incomprehensively popular "strong as buggery, sour as ****" taste, as popularised by Brewdog.
**double post, not had one of them for a while**
Cans are better. Modern cans have a coating inside so you don't get any metallic taste transferring. Keeps it fresher, blocks light, seals completely. They're regarded as more of the premium option in craft beer - lots of it doesn't keep so well but it lasts longer in cans, and it needs a fair bit of investment to set up for canning rather than chucking it in bottles like a scaled-up homebrewer.
As others have said, doing smaller batches with good (read: expensive) ingredients costs more than chucking out millions of litres a year from a factory in Burton upon Trent.
@ihn Spot the difference?
**double post, not had one of them for a while**
Ah but it wasn't, they were two different posts.
Like, what’s happened to Stella? Used to be a nice lager,
No it didn’t.
Yes it did when it was imported from Belgium and 5.2%. I'll agree the current brewed, sorry ruined in the UK is woeful. A good chunk of the so-called "premium" lagers dropped their strength a few years ago.
fresher beer
Double bollocks. It all goes through the pasteuriser which is the biggest flavour killer of them all!
Keeps it fresher, blocks light, seals completely. They’re regarded as more of the premium option in craft beer
Only certain beers are affected by light hence the reason some are in brown glass as this filters out the UV etc. Beers in clear glass are are so full of chemicals it no longer matters. People fall for the marketing bollocks of cans. At the end of the day they are cheaper to buy than several tonnes of glass.
Special Brew, Coco Pops
Breakfast of champions
Sounds like cans are a genius option if some need brown glass to stay fresh and the alternative is clear glass because the beer is full of preservatives.
I havent personally seen a brewer place freshness over environmental cost in promoting cans.
this is the spiel we've come up with for cans over bottles
Convenience
Beverage cans are valued for their convenience and portability. Lightweight and durable, they chill faster and are an ideal fit for active lifestyles – hiking, camping, and other outdoor adventures – without the risk of accidental breakage. Cans are also perfect for use in outdoor venues – from stadiums, to concerts, to sporting events – where glass bottles are not permitted, allowing customers to enjoy their favorite beer whenever and wherever they want.Product Protection
Taste and personality are critical for craft brew brands, making the protection of those attributes essential. Metal offers a powerful barrier against light and oxygen, two key enemies of craft brews and many other beverages as they can have an adverse effect on flavor and freshness. Beverage cans also help enhance craft beer brands on the shelf. The larger surface area of cans, for example, offers more space to promote your brand with eye-catching graphics, attracting consumer attention in the store.Sustainability
Beverage cans don’t just look good; they’re something consumers can feel good about buying. Metal packaging is 100% and infinitely recyclable, meaning it can be recycled again and again without loss of performance or integrity. In fact, the can that is recycled today can be back on shelves in as little as 60 days.
Brewdog are a major customer.
Personally I prefer cans; it's a better size for me. And a small amount of well flavoured, higher in alcohol beer is better than a session ale. That just bloats me
Yes it did when it was imported from Belgium and 5.2%
The 5.2% was UK brewed to 2008,at which point it was dropped to 4.8%, then 4.6 this year.
Its been UK brewed since 1976 though you could buy "imported" as a premium option. (but not on draft since 76)
The recipe change in the Belgian version took place in 1993 when they moved to the automated brewery in luven and dropped the bitterness from 33 IBU to the current 20.
1976
Que?
Cans are better for festivals innit?
Get thee to Aldi:
William Brothers BREL Belgian style IPA or Klute West Coast IPA
£1.25 a tin and blumming lovely !
The Brel tastes like a Pelforth Brune
Thanks for that dangerbrain. I do remember the imported stuff tasting better.
As you seem quite knowledgeable on the subject, why do breweries drop the alcohol content?
I believe modern cans are plastic-lined, which actually makes them harder to recycle.
There's a good 'cans vs bottles' explanation here.
why do breweries drop the alcohol content?
To reduce the tax they have to pay. That’s where the names 60,70,80 & 90 shilling come from. It was how much tax they paid on the ABV.
Edit - In Stella’a case it was maybe an attempt to lose the “wife beater” nickname!
I dunno - beer drinkers have never had it so good and we still find something to whinge about. 😀
I’ve had a few mixed cases from Flavourly - even some of the lagers are lovely - delivered within a couple of days generally for between £1.25 and £1.50 a can. Tesco do quite a few of their 4 packs at 2 for £9, a good selection of the 440ml “specials” which are a bit pricier, and still have a great selection of bottled ales for the duddies at £6 for four.
I agree that Sainsbury’s are shite at beer. If yours is getting slightly better recently, you can thank me as I’ve been badgering them to at least attempt to be as good as Asda and Tesco. You cannot beat their own brand craft ale and lager, the Depot No.90 2% lager and bitter. £1 for four cans of school night beer. 😂
There is also a giant difference in production costs when you scale up to the international corporation size - the economies of scale allow you to buy some seriously efficient kit that has a massive capex that can only be reclaimed with huge volumes. And with beer, there is always a trade off on "flavour" when you can use cheaper ingredients that drop the sensory quality as well as increased filtration/pasteurisation and so on that reduces quality but helps with the commercial side - beer losses, shelf life etc.
It's all a spectrum -depends where you drop that pin.
Also, the packaging and tax makes up a huge percentage of the cost of a beer - far more than the cost of the liquid in your bottle/can etc. A sankey keg (that goes to a pub) costs about £25 and can be used a few hundred times with refurbishments.
As for beards, I actually made a whisky fermented with yeast and bacteria from my beard. I also made one with a microflora swab off of my cat's tummy.
I prefer to support small, local breweries - might not be cheaper, but they make more money than me giving it to a big supermarket. I bought a couple of small bottles of whisky barrel conditioned stouts @ £6 each - yet to try them - Mrs DB thought I was mad
Yeh tesco are good. Started stocking some specials from Vocation and other similar breweries. Sainsbury’s are awful - just a poor selection of ales that aren’t particularly nice.
I am happy to pay a bit more these days as I might only have two beers over a weekend so it is something to enjoy!
Our local Lidl is carrying a range of German Craft beers made by Steam Brew, there's a Chocolate Stout, Session IPA, Imperial IPA at 7.8%abv and Red Beer in 500ml cans for 90 pence a piece. Just one drawback, we're in Southern Cataluña 😁
I am actually nearly at the end of the process of setting up my own, mega-niche pico brewery. As part of my business planning I actually used STW forumite-esque folk as a likely customer. People looking for provenance, mega-locality, anti-commercialist seeking people who hardly drink but when they do they want something special. I'll post about it when I'm ready.
why do breweries drop the alcohol content?
Tax, production cost and mostly customer taste.
Sometimes they get it wrong and shed customers but, your average UK wet sales larger drinker is likely (a) going to drink Stella because that's what they drink, (b) going to drink Stella because the alternative is carling.
Drinking in general is an ageing market, your typical drinker* still wants to drink 8 pints whilst watching the football, feel OK in the morning and repeat tomorrow etc. That bloke drinking Stella in front of the fruit machine? He's not 20 anymore. He'd be looking for another brand or drinking less. You can still sell him his half a dozen beers a day at the same (or higher) price if you drop the % and he'll come back tomorrow. Keep it at 5.2 and he has 3 pints instead.
Craft beer is the opposite end of that market, sell two beers to someone who'll spend an hour an a half on each but you still need to turn over enough to pay wages and make a profit. To do that you charge more, knowing they'll only drink 2x 2/3rd pints you can make them 12% if that's what you think is right for the beer rather than brewing to a target % to keep your customer upright long enough to order a gallon.
*as distinct from someone who it so happens drinks beer. It's not specifically a beer thing either, the younger generation are much more likely to eat /wear/drink etc things from small brands they identify with than huge brands they don't, apple being the obvious exception which proves the rule.
My sister was the finance director of a mid-size craft brewers
There's the issue right there 😉
Craft brewers don't have finance directors, they have brewers who are slightly less shit with numbers who in turn have a drawer in their office stuffed full of cash and petty cash vouchers
Try Vocation brewery online - I picked up some black Friday beer deals and it works out at ~ £1.30 per 330ml tin.
They often have similar deals.
Craft brewers don’t have finance directors, they have brewers who are slightly less shit with numbers who in turn have a drawer in their office stuffed full of cash and petty cash vouchers
Is that a fact
I usually drink (and brew) heavily hopped beers, and that comes at a cost.
I think that hop forward beers degrade less that a similar beer in bottles, due to the cans being purged before sealing. From my own brewing experience, things like NEIPA's loose their flavour very quickly in bottles, and these styles are the current vogue beers.
Hi
Well , How much detail do you want me to go into?
The market is swinging slowly away from glass to cans , not just 330ml, but 440ml , 500ml and 568ml pint cans.
They offer so much more to the brewer , retailer and consumer.
Advertising space , packaging , product safety ( no glass shards in your beer ) low DO levels as reduced headspace helps there.
Price wise , more capex to buy in the hardware to fill efficiently. Double purge to redox , fill , ream , pack , dispatch.
As for the beer itself , if small pack or draught it gets expenssive to load up those big juicy hop flavours . The hops are mainly American or Aus /NZ so shipping costs as its gotta be refrigerated . UK hops just cannot deliver the range or depth of flavours . Uk hops £10/kg , Citra £32 and most non europe hops £20+
Malt .- We do make world class barley here so its not so expensive and the range of price is minimal. Lactose is expensive mind, unfermentable base sweetner. Some German specials are around £1000/T , most UK malt £650 - £750 tonne.
Yeasts , bang the price up . More ethanol = more sugars = more malt + more yeast. Used to be cheaper , expensive now.
Water. Costs a packet if your not on in house brown water treatment. settling tank or pond, bullrush beds etc
Electric .- Huge money each month , imagine its 28'c and you need a vessel holding at 1c. In an industrial unit with a 200KW gas burner running. Canning has to be done with beer very near freezing point due to partial pressure , Co2 breakout , fobbing etc
Accreditation . Costs a load to get the neccesssary food safety audits completed each year ( sending away scales to be calibtrated , temp monitors etc )
Beer duty , below 2000HL pa half price for micro breweries , slides up but expotential curve once over 2000Hl. Double duty on 7.5%abv and up.
Labour . Biggest cost for small scale craft brewers , we simply cannot match or even get close to an automated brewhouse where the brewer sits behind a touch screen and hopes the hoses are all connected correctly ( they use load cells and flow meters everywhere )
Bigger outfits have canning lines , small guys contract it . we pay 34p a can , but have to ship it there , and back ( costs more as its is now heavier ) and pay to get out empty shipping containers returned.
Labels . Textured labels cost more . screen printed cans , 10,000 minimum run length. TBF not alot in it once you order 20k+ labels the price flattens . No idea on screen printed can costs we aint that big.Artwork origination , cutters etc all adds up.
So , Everything costs more but beer has never been as eclectic or as high quality as it is today. The new breed of unfiltered and unpasteurised beers neccessitate very clean breweries and good handling practise . Hops are expensive and you need alot , oxygen will reduce those heady hop aromas in weeks so cans help enormously, and ascorbic acid.
Thornbridge do great beer , Vocation , Verdant too . Is it expensive ? I dont think so. These beers are not 'down in one' Carling piss.( apologies to Bill ) Brewed to be enjoyed and satisfying so that perhaps just 1 can will do of an evenning with dinner.
Rob
No beard brewer
Craft brewers don’t have finance directors, they have brewers who are slightly less shit with numbers who in turn have a drawer in their office stuffed full of cash and petty cash vouchers
I will take offense at that.
Most dont have an office with a desk and draws . Theres no cash , thats all gone to HMRC and the hop merchants.
If you think the craft beer you drink is expensive, spare a thought for us over here: https://www.systembolaget.se/sok/?categoryLevel1=%C3%96l
Tip: "Falcon" is the shit stuff. Some thing with Pripps. Poppels is a decent medium brewery that does decent beer, Tempel, Uppsala Brygghus and Upp are both local and small batch.
They offer so much more to the brewer , retailer and consumer.
And one huge disadvantage. tinned beer is nasty compared to bottled. You get a nasty metallic taste
I believe modern cans are plastic-lined, which actually makes them harder to recycle.
It's a lacquer that's sprayed inside the can. Different lacquers for different markets. Without the lacquer the aluminium would taint the beverage and the beverage would corrode the can, especially the citrus based drinks.
It doesn't affect the recycling process.
And one huge disadvantage. tinned beer is nasty compared to bottled. You get a nasty metallic taste
That hasn't been true for many years now
Pour it into a glass then .
Modern cans are treated to remove aluminium pick up. Its probably from the outside of the can. I havent noticed any sharp mettalic flvours in any cans I have had recently.
Thinking about it metal is a known off flavour , imparted from incorrect use of tanks / pipes or malt thats got wet and or been badly stored although thats usually mycotoxins but maybe the flavour is a result of mycotoxins
And one huge disadvantage. tinned beer is nasty compared to bottled. You get a nasty metallic taste
Oh bore the **** off teej.
I've noticed the "craft" beer creeping up in price over the last few years as it's become more mainstream. There's a correlation of price increase to mass production from Lidl Green Gecko £2.18/L to Brewdog Punk £4.55/L to local Deya craft brewer at £6.66/L. The Deya isn't 3 times better than the LIDL, though it is nice, but the LIDL is very drinkable.
flavour is a result of mycotoxins
In TeeJ’s case, it’s very much psychological.
Actually, while you’re here @singletrackmind, what are your thoughts on the Flavourly “collaboration” beers? Eg I’m currently starting into a case of Flavourly + Hilden collaboration case; bitter, pilsner, pales, etc. Quite a few breweries seem to be doing them for Flavourly. All kosher? Breweries still making decent money out of them?
And one huge disadvantage. tinned beer is nasty compared to bottled. You get a nasty metallic taste
It's in your mind. The kegs that go to pubs are made of metal. They're not wooden barrels any more. Does every beer you've ever had at a pub or bar taste metallic?
Thing is there is such a big variety these days which is awesome so there is a decent craft beer at every price point. Even the stuff that Aldi is doing at the moment is pretty good and you can't say that is not cheap. Thornbridge is one of my favourite breweries and the stuff they sell via Tesco is pretty reasonable...there is usually an offer on for multi-buys making them even cheaper and for the quality you are getting it's a no-brainer.
Hmm
If they have done a deal with Flavourly then probably not. It will be a volume exercise to reduce the manpower cost per unit and / or enable bigger production runs to pick up cost savings enabling every other can bought costs less ( if the costs are absobed ie no extra overtime ) to make. So the DTC cans cost less and make you more.
The collabs are interesting and some are really good . You can get a meeting of minds , or access to a bit of kit that you dont own , like a hop torpedo or a heated mash tun .
I know my beers would all be better if brewed elsewhere as i work with basic 1980's kit.
Cuckoo brewers do similar , find a brewery thats making a great stout for example and brew a stout on their kit and rebrand . The cuckoo brewer takes advantage of the other brewers water compostion for example or RO plant
Not sold to flavourly , but with the state of the uk pub trade any output would be a blessed relief as its going to be a very loooooong January and Febuary with pretty much zero sales
though it is nice, but the LIDL is very drinkable.
Tried that Green Gecko twice now and it has a very odd flavour. Also tried their ‘Plunged Orange’ yesterday as I’ve recently developed a very keen taste for FourPure’s ‘Easy Peeler’ @ £1.48 a can (on offer lately) so was looking at Lidl (99p) as a backup when the Easy Peeler goes back to £1.90
I can’t even say that the Lidl beer tasted half as good as (for me) tasted like that canned ‘Tartan’ bitter, yet infused with overpowering orange-flavoured chewy sweet flavouring)
I’ll stick to the Easy Peeler (cans) and Shipyard (bottles) and drink half as often as I actually very much enjoy them. That means a lot to me as generally draught/cask-conditioned ale doesn’t have that sugary/tinny taste that for me seems to make nearly all bottled/canned ales taste alike? For this reason I usually choose a bottle/can lager over a bottle/can of ale - even though I prefer ale (draught) so finding bottled/canned beer that is not only drinkable but enjoyable - is massive!
Also support the local micro-brewery (who installed a canning machine lately) and they have a long-standing range of bitters, stout, and some excitingly-hopped ales.
We are spoiled for choice. Agree with the comments of drinking habits changing. Although for me it comes with age and budget allocation. Old days - 3
-4 pints of Enville Ale or Bathams Bitter in the pub with friends, £1 a pint! Being a lightweight I’d be fairly tipsy after 4. £4! A bag of nuts and a night out was therefore a fiver.
These days - a tin or bottle or 2, while watching the box. There goes £2-£4. If riding with friend/s then a pint and half max (draught) in beer-garden. This latter is now by far IMO the best way to enjoy regular beer, ie mid-ride, with company - a well kept cask-conditioned session ale quaff, natter, talk bikes and then off riding again with that warm glow ‘beer boost’ that seem to be helping 🍺🍺🚵🏼♂️🚵🏼
And one huge disadvantage. tinned beer is nasty compared to bottled. You get a nasty metallic taste
That's not the tin it's in, it's the Tennants crap you drink North of Berwick. 😉
One weird thing I've seen that suggests there's a huge amount going on with the market outside of the producers (breweries).
Brewdog pub in Edinburgh at Lothian Road charges about £6 for a pint of Punk IPA. The Wetherspoons across the street is about £4.20 for that same pint. Considering Brewdog are vertically integrated and own their own bar without any middlemen, the conclusion seems they are taking the piss.
And one huge disadvantage. tinned beer is nasty compared to bottled. You get a nasty metallic taste
And exactly what do you think beer is fermented in and stored in before bottling and canning? What are kegs made out of in pub cellars? What material are the pipes through which beer is pumped to the packing hall?
I spent 5 years working in beer canning and bottling plants owned by pretty well all the UK's biggest breweries so I know what goes on.
the conclusion seems they are taking the piss
That assumes they're paying similar rent, rates, wages etc.
That they're making the same money on dry sales, coffee etc.
They're selling similar volumes etc.
They're probably not in any of those cases.
Also it assumes when you buy a pint in brewdog or Wetherspoons or a burger in McDonalds vs five guys or where ever, that all you're paying for is product. You're not. Your paying for a brand, for a space, for a design, an atmosphere and so on. I'd rather not drink in a Wetherspoons, is it taking the piss to charge more because I exercise that choice? No absolutely not, the price will of course influence my choice but they bank on that and it keeps people who would rather pay less and drink in somewhere less "pleasant/snobby/****y" going elsewhere.
The value in anything is what the market will pay, costs are broadly irrelevant. Its why milk is sold at less than cost, coffee needs RFA, bananas fair trade, audis cost more than skodas, a 2nd hand golf costs more than a passant and a house costs vastly more than just the bricks etc.
Once in a glass I challenge anyone to taste whether it came from a can or bottle.
I agree with the original sentiment though, give me a proper amber or dark ale any day other that over hoppy craft rubbish.
Most of the small breweries round my way are selling in cans now. I generally like them, but somehow I just can't get on board with the pint cans! They look wrong somehow, too tall... the proportions just aren't harmonious.
@dangerourbrain - I get where you're coming from, but Brewdog have pulled a number on you. The difference behind the business and the presentation of the business is absolutely gigantic.
I mean, they've got you (a bystander) arguing with folk on the internet to pay 50% more for the same product. Total genius. A true culture war where we show our allegiance by giving more money to people. I wish I had thought of it.
Its not in my mind - its when you drink from the can compared to drinking from a bottle. Same as a metal cup taints the taste of anything you drink from it
Its barely noticeable if you pour it but its still there. anyone who says different has poor tastebuds 😉
I get where you’re coming from, but Brewdog have pulled a number on you. The difference behind the business and the presentation of the business is absolutely gigantic.
I think you do me a disservice, or more to the point, I think you and I would disagree on some fairly fundamental philosophy best discussed over beer, not over a thread about beer. 🙂
It could possibly be the top of the can TJ can taste. It certainly isn't the inside.
oxygen will reduce those heady hop aromas
Depends how far away the brewery is and how strong the wind is - there’s a brewery not that far from one of our car storage sites at work, that lovely yeasty aroma mixed with hops has me salivating whenever the wind’s in the right direction. Not managed to pin down which brewery it is yet, though.
As regards choice, Morrisons seems to keep a fairly good range of bottled beers from various established breweries, but I can’t be arsed with the so-called ‘craft’ stuff - any decent brewery is producing ’craft’ beer, pretty much by definition, surely, as compared to the stuff produced in industrial quantities in what look like oil refineries.
I’m blessed with also having a local farm shop that stocks a wide range of beer, cider and gin from regional producers, although the one I’m drinking at the moment is anything but local! It’s from County Antrim, Hillstown Brewery Massey Red, 5.2%, and its lovely.
https://www.hillstownbrewery.com/
Even the stuff that Aldi is doing at the moment is pretty good
Aldi has been doing good beer for a long time, up here at any rate. Fallen make some good stuff and they always have something by West.
the conclusion seems they are taking the piss
That assumes...
Oh believe me, they are. Just look at the "value" being a shareholder brings, a pack of Punk at a higher price than you can pick it up for in Tesco. I get what you're saying but all that aside they do rip it.
The shareholder thing did strike me as a bit of a con and was, according to a friend in Bristol, better when they first offered them. I took shares in Poppels when they issued them a couple of years ago and have not really had any benefit from them, but the main point of their issue was to raise capital for new equipment. It paid off for them and they are doing consistently good beer in more volume than before.
Brew dog did release the recipe book for their beers if you fancy making your own; DIY Dog or something.
I have visions of TJ licking the tins and bottles in the supermarket to see if they taste okay before buying the beer. Damn Covid, there's a point to prove.
🙃😜🤔
Ever wish you hadn't started a thread!!? 😬😬
I get the economies of scale for small local brewers - they can never compete on price. But the brewers who supply supermarkets have got to have decent production facilities to meet the demand. It's not Dave and his mate out the back of the local pub!
I still think they've looked at whats happened in the Gin market and thought we'll have a slice of that. Sell the brand, up the image, slap some more flavours in and charge a premium for it.
Wasn't that long ago when Gordon's was the standard gin - that was the Gin and then there was the cheap stuff you got it the petrol station. People don't think twice about paying 4 or 5 times the price now. The marketing has been brilliant.
I thought that mobile canning (basically a canning factory on the back of a truck) was driving the move to tins instead of bottles, maybe that's not true?
The 5.2% was UK brewed to 2008,at which point it was dropped to 4.8%, then 4.6 this year.
That's not how I remember it (and I worked for Whitbread) UK brewed was 5.0% (by Whitbread then Interbrew then Inbev or whoever). Imported was 5.2% and was only distinguished by a white foil covering the cap and neck of the bottle (and obviously the small print /abv etc).
Hop House 13 has gone the same ABV route. At 5% it wasn't a bad drop.
It has been "taste remastered" but now 4.6% and just tastes bland. One to avoid unless very cheap.
I get the economies of scale for small local brewers – they can never compete on price. But the brewers who supply supermarkets have got to have decent production facilities to meet the demand. It’s not Dave and his mate out the back of the local pub!
But that is the exact challenge. Alot of these breweries are Dave and his mate out the back of a local pub then the demand explodes and they win a contract with a major supermarket, then they've got to expands massively. BrewDog didn't exist before 2007 and in 13 years their expansion has been massive and they have a global footprint with production facilities in the US and Australia, and so many decent companies go bust because they get their expansion strategy wrong...they either expand too fast or slow and can't manage costs during expansion. Just managing your supply chain is hard...you can't just ring up your grain and hops suppliers and increase your order by 5000%. Or order a huge industrial brewing system one day and have it delivered and up and running inside of 6 months.
It's still a very young industry and massively fragmented. Most of the current micro breweries wont survive and the market will settle down. There will be those targeting the more pricy premium end of the market and others that wont, so there will be choice, which is a good thing.
