Just checking I've covered my ass here.
Ordered a Mavic 4 (3.5k) for a job - big retailer - Yodel (ahem) driver came to door with random box - not my address on box. (This was clearly the cover story.) I said that's not my parcel. Courier walks off with box and marks as delivered , takes photo of random box and claims delivery. Fakes my signature on the gadget.
All looks like drone has been delivered.
Register a complaint with retailer and yodel.
Luckily I have CCTV from next door of courier putting box back on the van and driving off.
Retailer seems on the ball - courier less so.
But currently I have no drone and a potential bill.
It's being investigated but interview with driver apparently claims he's delivered it.
Anyone aware/experiences of this scam? How would courier know my delivery is of substantial value to nick? Or do they sit in the back opening all the parcels? (Also given the tracked nature of everything why risk your job on one parcel.)
Thoughts and bollockings? Where does the responsibility lie?
What a nightmare. A few things in my mind. Does he have a mate or some one on a dark forum that lets them know about high value parcels.
The box being wrong in the photo is your best hope.
How did you pay? This could be your best bet for money
Retailer has a contract to supply the drone to you. Retailer has a contract with the delivery company for them to deliver it.
Issue is between retailer and delivery company.
Retailer haven't fulfilled their contract with you yet.
Theft must be rife in the delivery industry. We had a Shark vacuum cleaner recorded as "delivered" but it didn't come to us. Was from Amazon so easy to claim the refund. Also had a stupidly expensive bottle of Armagnac disappear at a Parcel Force sorting station in Swindon, Was tracked to there then never moved on.
What a nightmare. A few things in my mind. Does he have a mate or some one on a dark forum that lets them know about high value parcels.
The box being wrong in the photo is your best hope.
How did you pay? This could be your best bet for money
It's a forward credit contract so not due yet.
But the retailer said I won't pay for something that hasn't been delivered.
I believe I hold the cards with evidence.
Retailer has a contract to supply the drone to you. Retailer has a contract with the delivery company for them to deliver it.
Issue is between retailer and delivery company.
Retailer haven't fulfilled their contract with you yet.
That definitely adds clarity but isn't that down to who decides the outcome of it being delivered or not?
As, above your contract is with the shop, so don't get involved in speaking to delivery company, just speak to the shop, let them do whatever they need to do with the delivery company. Just keep pressing the shop to deliver drone to you. The shop may want your cctv footage to help them argue their case against the delivery Co.
Your fall back is with the credit card company (assuming you paid with cc), and then small claims court against the shop if you don't get a satisfactory outcome.
Why any retailer uses Yodel for high value items is beyond me.
It's being investigated but interview with driver apparently claims he's delivered it.
Lets be honest there was no interview here, just a standard Yodel "investigation"
£3.5k guessing it was on a CC, just do a dispute with them and let them sort it it out.
Edit see its on credit contract, same applies raise an complaint with seller item not recieved
Thanks but it's credit with the company.
Due later.
Yes agreed on Yodel - crazy.
CCTV has gone to all parties. But good tip - I will stay away from yodel perhaps and let the retailer do it's thing.
Was just thinking if I put pressure on both it shows I'm not a pushover. Things like this don't get resolved without pressure.
If you have evidence of theft/fraud straight to the police.
If you have evidence of theft/fraud straight to the police.
I'm guessing it's a civil matter until there is intent rather than an courier error - but yeah.
We've had a few things go missing when using the Yodel. A large part of out garden furniture. Came in three boxes, well it should have. Two arrived and the main components didn't. It was sorted by the retailer as my wife worked for them at the time.
It is the suppliers problem, give them the evidence that you have not received the correct parcel, signature isn't yours etc. Tell the supplier to get a replacement to you in time for the job or order from somewhere else.
If they don't sort it then don't pay the invoice, quite simple, it's not your problem so don't make it so.
Sometime around Black Friday, I had a crate of wine claimed as delivered which was never traced.
The retailer was properly on the ball with it though, got a replacement crate out in no time and kept me updated directly.
Not sure if it was the general madness of Black Friday and loads of deliveries all over or actual theft.
I'm always pleasantly surprised when high value stuff actually turns up. One of my local delivery drivers is brilliant, a regular guy on our road who knows everyone. Some of them are terrible though.
This is even easier to sort if you haven't actually handed any money over yet. If the drone hasn't arrived, you don't pay, simple as that. . Get the shop to send a new drone in time for your job, if they're looking like they cant/won't, then cancel the order and buy from somewhere else and move on with life.
How would courier know my delivery is of substantial value to nick?
Because the retailer insured the package for £3.5k
We’ve had several parcels delivered to us that have either been clearly opened , or have a small tear in them near a corner ( used an inspection cam to look inside ? ) .
Amazon and EVRi ( shock horror) have both left parcels on the doorstep and recorded as “handed to resident”. Luckily we have been close enough to home to get them , or have phoned a neighbour to ask them to take them in ( thanks to Ring Door bell the evidence is there in case they were stolen etc)
All in all industries , there are dubious characters working within them. I’ve had £3k worth of bolts just dumped on my doorstop by Tuffnells in the past , before doorbell cams were a thing. Even forged a signature to say they had been accepted.
Your drone ( and any other high value items) should be delivered and accepted using a PIN number ( that the courier doesn’t know). No pin , no delivery . It’s simple
Personally I would leaning towards reporting it as theft/fraud. You might even be able to do it through the Action Fraud website.
Good luck getting it sorted. As above, having no photo of the correct package sounds like your best hope.
(And as an aside has anyone else noticed the latest trend of all courier photos being just of the package itself? It used to be that they'd take a pic of it on your doorstep or wherever, as proof (fwiw). Now it's just a closeup of the address label or something, proving nothing beyond the fact that they were holding it.)
Looking at it from the other side, part of my work is as an online retailer of high-ish value items (jewellery). We occasionally get the old "item wasn't delivered" claim and while it does often seem to be the courier or a simple lost package, you wouldn't believe some of the claims that come through. As the onus is on the supplier to prove they arrived, it's really difficult to fight them.
Amazon is particularly harsh for this.
Send a parcel, £800 ring.
Customer opens a claim, "it wasn't delivered".
We respond with tracking details, including signature and photo of intact package.
Amazon: "As you have tracking, this won't affect your ratings. We're still refunding the customer though."
Us: 🤬
As another aside, we used to sell a lot of cheaper items on eBay through normal untracked post. After adding a fake barcode to the the address label with a "tracking" number, we saw a massive drop in the number of "not arrived" claims. Funny, that 😂
If as described in OP I’d report to police. They may or may not take interest but it would be extra credibility for your version to the supplier - it would be incredibly dumb to report to cops, if in fact you were the scammer.
Yeah food for thought thanks.
I'm just concerned that if I break the credit agreement that can cause issues. Especially if the retailer says that they're in process of sorting it but then again tough tits.
I hope you have more luck than me.
Parcel apparently delivered (Amazon shipping but not bought from Amazon) in February, but no parcel. Spoke to Amazon shipping, not interested take it up with supplier, supplier not interested shows as delivered, case closed, PayPal not interested, shows as delivered. It's now in the hands of the credit card company.
Fortunately it's "only" £50, annoying all the same.
I presume you still want the drone. The vendor will be less out of pocket sending you another drone than they will be refunding you. I'd ask for that, they can then deal with their courier or claim on insurance (and deal with the police) for the missing drone.
Crazy how some couriers aren't using that newish system for valuable items, where a code is sent to the receiver, which the delivery person does not know and has to simply enter it into the PDA what they are told by person opening the delivery address door.
My DJI power station arrived direct from DJI via a courier in the cardboard retail box with no external packaging so it was easy to see what was in the box. I think my neo drone was inside a another cardboard box so harder to identify.
I was worried that I wouldn't be in for the deliveries and stuff would go missing but it didn't.
I've had a ton of DJI stuff. Always been inside and outer brown carton.
Can't be sure on this one though.
I've even had much more expensive DJI stuff with no issues but usually DPD RM DHL etc.
I presume you still want the drone. The vendor will be less out of pocket sending you another drone than they will be refunding you. I'd ask for that, they can then deal with their courier or claim on insurance (and deal with the police) for the missing drone.
Good point. Because I'm short of time and stock of the mavic 4 is limited I grabbed a like new from Amazon in the meantime. I've got other drones but a mavic 4 is needed for the better screen and battery charging speed.
The thing with buying drone is - 'very' offered a 20% deal on first purchase - I'm not interested beyond that. That's a huge discount for a new but missing drone. 😁
yodel and very are owned by the same people, so I think this will get sorted, it just might take a while.I presume you still want the drone. The vendor will be less out of pocket sending you another drone than they will be refunding you. I'd ask for that, they can then deal with their courier or claim on insurance (and deal with the police) for the missing drone.
Good point. Because I'm short of time and stock of the mavic 4 is limited I grabbed a like new from Amazon in the meantime. I've got other drones but a mavic 4 is needed for the better screen and battery charging speed.
The thing with buying drone is - 'very' offered a 20% deal on first purchase - I'm not interested beyond that. That's a huge discount for a new but missing drone. 😁
yodel and very are owned by the same people, so I think this will get sorted, it just might take a while.
Ahhh. Shit. Didn't know that.
Of course they're going to operate as separate companies though but yeah. Interesting.
Yes, Yodel and Very were under the same ownership but Yodel was sold off in 2024. InPost have been trying to buy it but its bogged down in legal wrangling so another reason to avoid Yodel at all costs.
My experience is that Yodel are particularly shite, even in a pool where most are shite.
Had a new coffee machine not appear despite claimnit was delivered a couple of years back. Retailer (not Very) had to send a 2nd one.
Thing is it impacts real retailers and ends up with everything being more expensive to cover the cost of theft.
Good point. Because I'm short of time and stock of the mavic 4 is limited I grabbed a like new from Amazon in the meantime. I've got other drones but a mavic 4 is needed for the better screen and battery charging speed.
The thing with buying the drone is - 'very' offered a 20% deal on first purchase - I'm not interested beyond that. That's a huge discount for a new but missing drone. 😁
Apologies but....
Buy cheap buy twice springs to mind...
Not sure what that means in this context.
It wasn't a cheap drone. It was full price with a 20% discount as a first purchase from a mainstream retailer.
Normal stuff.
Even if you have now bought one from somewhere else, and Very manage to eventually get a drone to you, so you end up with 2 drones, you can just return the very drone within 14 days (assuming you don't open it) of receiving it, under the distance selling regs and get the credit agreement cancelled.
Had not one but two Garmin epix watches “delivered” by UPS. The quote marks are doing some heavy lifting there. As OP said, you do have to keep the pressure up on the retailer. Garmin were good in fairness. They offered to send out a third or give me a refund. I said something along the lines of “go on then, it’s your risk” and it actually arrived.
I had a £250 Seiko watch ordered from Amazon arrived with the box empty. A slight hassle going outside the normal online return process to speak to a person but got refunded.
Funny how some high value stuff can be delivered without confirmation from the addressee but if I order a £16 bottle of whisky the delivery guy has to hand it to me in person for ages verification.
I bought a Garmin 1030 refurbished from their outlet store which I believe was on Amazon. The parcel was delivered to a local parcel shop after apparently I wasn't in... I was in and by the time I got to the parcel shop the parcel had been opened. I suspect it was because they were looking for a mobile phone and when they found a cycle computer just shoved everything back in the box
I reported it to Amazon but they really didn't seem to be interested. They seem to be more interested in attempting to give me a refund which I had to work quite hard not to get
but if I order a £16 bottle of whisky the delivery guy has to hand it to me in person for ages verification.
But that's because it is a legal requirement (just like with knives). I suspect that the additional cost of implementing robust measures to prevent theft by delivery drivers outweighs the cost of replacing the occasional lost item.
Years ago I drove for an agency and ended working for a lot of courier firms.
The worst, by far, was one called Home Delivery Network. Absolutely chaotic. It was a wonder anything ever got delivered. They later changed their name to Yodel.
It was a bit like when Windscale changed its name to Sellafield. Different name. Same radiation leaks.
I reported it to Amazon but they really didn't seem to be interested. They seem to be more interested in attempting to give me a refund which I had to work quite hard not to get
It costs way more for Amazon to investigate all this, try to take action against the delivery company, try to resolve the issue, claim on insurance etc than it does for them just to go "whatever" and send out a replacement. It's pretty much factored into their business model.
Same with 1-click buy. It earns them far more in impulse purchases, ease of transaction etc than they lose in dealing with the occasional fraudulent stuff that gets through.
Retailer has a contract to supply the drone to you. Retailer has a contract with the delivery company for them to deliver it.
Issue is between retailer and delivery company.
Retailer haven't fulfilled their contract with you yet.
... is the correct answer.
you can just return the very drone within 14 days (assuming you don't open it) of receiving it, under the distance selling regs and get the credit agreement cancelled.
Distance Selling Regulations hasn't existed in years.
The relevant legislation here is Consumer Contract Regulations and yes, you have the right to cancel within 14 days of receipt or beforehand, you do not have to wait for an actual delivery in order to change your mind. You then have a further 14 days in which to return the goods, and the retailer must refund you within 14 days of the return.
I don't think opening the box matters but I could be wrong; the whole point here is to allow you to inspect goods that you would otherwise have been able to do in a regular shop.
I actively avoid a seller if they use Yodel. 2 major hassles which they just failed to accept they had done anything wrong and in both case the retailer just sent out a replacement.
One package delivered to wrong address with picture of not my front door! Repeatedly asked me to check it hadnt been delivered before I raised it with retailer.
2nd stated package had been delivered. I watched my cctv for the day. Courier got out of van and then searched in back, came back into cab and then back into back of van before getting back in cab and driving off without entering my property. Again only retailer was any use after I shared it with Yodel who then suggested I raise it with retailer like it wasn’t their problem!
It’s the time spent on online bloody chat trying to resolve it that annoys me most
The relevant legislation here is Consumer Contract Regulations
I got the impression, hopefully incorrectly, that the transaction under discussion is business to business?
CCR won't apply if so.
I'm going to go out on a limb here.......are we, the customers, not part of the problem here? We want free delivery of products sold on slim margins from retailer we've chosen on price. We end up with poorly trained drivers on crappy 'self employed' contracts with ridiculous time expectations put on them. And then we get a poor customer service - who'd a thunk it!
If there was a 'Waitrose' equivalent delivery option upgrade that cost you a good dollop more but your package got delivered on a feather bed at a time convenient to you by a uniformed driver with a nice smile to avoid any potential hassle - would you pay for it?
would you pay for it?
When buying there is very rarely a choice, personally I rarely send anything by the "cheapest" method, choosing to use delivery services that have people who are employed rather than contracted, also we occasionally tip delivery people - especially if regular drivers, like our Evri man.
@rone - you bought cheap at 20% off & then had to buy another to replace it, clearly a crap attempt at a joke as I had to explain it 😞
😁
So no resolve yet
Citizens advice said I have to wait 14 days to give them chance to sort it.
Gave very a hard time the other day.
Didn't work.
If there was a 'Waitrose' equivalent delivery option upgrade that cost you a good dollop more but your package got delivered on a feather bed at a time convenient to you by a uniformed driver with a nice smile to avoid any potential hassle - would you pay for it?
Maybe, there are certain services I’d avoid if given the choice. As you’ve said, they’ve all got downsides (eg. DPD, which round here is pretty reliable… except I saw the DPD van pulling a spectacularly dangerous overtake on the local single carriageway A-road)
I got the impression, hopefully incorrectly, that the transaction under discussion is business to business?
If that is the case then I don't know anything about that I'm afraid.
I got the impression, hopefully incorrectly, that the transaction under discussion is business to business?
CCR won't apply if so
Technically I purchased it as a freelancer. But it's purchased with no mention of a business in their credit process. But then freelancers are just individuals.
(I didn't buy with my company card.)
Buying a high value item from a mainstream catalogue company who aren't know for their customer service would make me nervous even if I was using a credit card for protection. No way I would do so using their in house, flakey, credit offering.
Buying a high value item from a mainstream catalogue company who aren't know for their customer service would make me nervous even if I was using a credit card for protection. No way I would do so using their in house, flakey, credit offering.
Here's me thinking a big mainstream brand would be reasonable.
As I understand it unless there's a huge conspiracy - it's the courier that's literally not delivered the goods.
Customer service from very has been attentive so far if not totally reassuring.
You pays your money ...
Although it's a tad stressful I'm not gonna sweat too much as 30 years plus of ordering stuff this is one of two that has gone wrong and the first was resolved in our favour.
Been reported to police?
Been reported to police?
Police may say it is the responsibility of the owner to report it. It isn't the OPs property until the company deliver it to him.
Been reported to police?
Maybe.
(Given I reported some local buggers walking around with rifles last week and they didn't seem bothered ....)
Got to let this 14 days things run out as the implication is neither party has been given time to resolve matters until then. As per Citizen's Advice.
I'm not suggesting there is a huge conspiracy. Yes the delivery company are at fault.
Unfortunately, for my sins, I have spent most of my career working for large financial services companies. The only time I haven't worked for a bank I worked for an ex catalogue company that offered store credit. Compliance with regulators to offer credit is complex, tedious and expensive. They are often operating in the murky end of the market with vulnerable customers, suffice to say they were creaking under non-compliance fines and complaints.
Just make sure you are assertive with your rights and if you don't get the result you are entitled to in a timely fashion escalate it to a complaint then, ultimately, you could take it to the financial ombudsman
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/how-to-complain/complain-financial-business
The FCA company checker:
https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/fca-firm-checker
shows that Littlewoods/Very operate under 'Shop Direct Finance Company Limited' or 'Shop Direct Home Shopping Limited'.
If you look at those firms on trust pilot you will get a different view to those for Very.
N.b. I didn't work for this company, I have no axe to grind.
Not kidding. Even allowing for the fact people review when things go wrong, shocking incompetence.
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.shopdirect.co.uk?page=2
Just make sure you are assertive with your rights and if you don't get the result you are entitled to in a timely fashion escalate it to a complaint then, ultimately, you could take it to the financial ombudsman
Will do. ta.
Update.
This has now been fully resolved as far as my end is concerned.
Very have Investigators to check the facts (which is a bit frustrating as they take too long to get in touch and then want all the info that you've already sent.) But this guy was good - did his report within 48hrs of me sending info.
Raised a complaint about the speed of it all and then my account was completely cleared within 72 hrs of the inspector getting in touch.
Complaints dept have given me £25 goodwill and reset my 20% discount.
Yodel said they can't find the parcel and the driver has been subject to internal discipline. But at least they followed it up.
Very complaints did reflect on why they're using Yodel for high value items instead of royal mail - their other option. So maybe something went wrong there.
Mostly okay with all that - a headache as I bought another Mavic 4 - which is fantastic and did my early morning shoot with at UKs first planned carbon capture cement works.
Weather couldn't have been better for a sunrise shoot.
(Not sure what would have happened in hindsight if I'd not got CCTV...)
did my early morning shoot with at UKs first planned carbon capture cement works.
Is that the Mold North Wales one? Glad everything got fixed in the end.
did my early morning shoot with at UKs first planned carbon capture cement works.
Is that the Mold North Wales one? Glad everything got fixed in the end.
did my early morning shoot with at UKs first planned carbon capture cement works.
Is that the Mold North Wales one? Glad everything got fixed in the end.
Yes that's the one.
driver has been subject to internal discipline.
Ouch
I'm surprised the driver wasn't sacked. That's Yodel's usual response to complaints.
I assume internal discipline means they dealt with it this rather involving in the police.
It’s worrying what would have happened without cctv.
If i buy a bike online I’ll think carefully about options like click and collect
Glad the OP is sorted
driver has been subject to internal discipline.
Ouch
I'm surprised the driver wasn't sacked. That's Yodel's usual response to complaints.
Might have been for all I know.
The email they sent though was a useful bit of info in admitting it was not being deflected.
For me at least.
Glad that got sorted out for you dude. The wait for it to be resolved must have been painful.
Surely if they've forged your signature to steal an item that's reportable to the police. It's your name they are stealing under.
Was advised police won't move on it.
And ultimately I went the route that would give me what I wanted.
