Couch to 5k for a fit cyclist

I am crap at running and also hate running and haven't run for 30 years but when I did try running a few years back running 3 miles was a piece of cake. Not sure what the harm is in just going and running 3 miles is but no doubt those with more expertise will be along soon to tell me.

If you've been racing cx then you'll be fine for 5k, I'd just get out and do it at a gentle pace, then do some speed work.

But I wouldn't listen to me, i ran 20 miles last Sunday, having not run at all (<10 miles in total) the rest of the year. Surprisingly, I was alright by wednesday and climbing the 10 flights of stairs to the office.

Just get on with it.
5k is a fart roon a carpark 😉 😜

Yup. Get off sofa, run 5k, sit back down. Job jobbed.

Should I work up to this, or just go for it? I’m conscious that my heart and lungs might be too much of a match for my running legs and I’ll injure myself,

I'm tempted to say this - and ask me how I know. Calves, achilles and hips in particular.

But at the same time, how much running up hills in mud did your cross season entail, that would have stretched and conditioned them in particular?

YMMV but in the light of my experience, and with a bit of running in my legs, I would be tempted to maybe hybridise slightly, eg: in week one do 2 week 1 sessions and one week 2. Then in week 2 do a week 2 session followed by 2 week 3 - so you're doing 3 sessions per week still but upping the rate at which they get harder. Then you'll have 'completed' week 6 after 4 weeks, say and do the last 3 weeks of a 9 week program as set out.

If after a few sessions it's still too easy and no niggles you can accelerate it further. If you think it's too easy right at the start and think '**** it, I'll start on week 4' and injure yourself, you can't ease off, at 50+ you end up knackered and unable to do anything. Ask me how I know.....

You just know now,that the OP is going to hit back with "How can I get under 16 minutes " 😆 🤣

I would expect you'll be able to do 5km. Your legs won't thanks you for a couple of days afterwards, unless you take it nice & steady.
The muscular fitness is one thing, but it's a completely different impact level & the connective tissue etc. needs time to adjust.
I would start with perhaps 3km max & build-up over a few weeks, to give your legs time to acclimatise.

Couch to 5km has a lot of walking in it at the start, which is probably overkill & you might get bored.

I’m very fit by normal people’s standards, and I’ve ridden CX most weekends this autumn/winter so I’m still pretty cycling (and of course some mud plugging) fit. I ran a reasonably quick 1/2 marathon 20 or so years ago, so I know I can do it, but haven’t really run since. I was thinking of building up to Parkruns and then settling into a Parkrun a week plus whatever else I need/want to do. Probably (ok, definitely) looking to work up to some kind of good parkrun PB.

Should I work up to this, or just go for it?

Give over, 'work up to it'! You could go out now and run a Parkrun faster and beat a minimum of half the people there. Couch to 5k is very, very, very much not aimed at people like you.

Put your shoes on and run. The hardest thing will be holding yourself back, forgetting that as a cyclist we get to freewheel every so often (yes, even in a CX race!).

When I was fitter and wanted to run I would start at week 3 as there's a bit of running and resting intervals to allow you to get used to weight bearing exercise for 30 minutes straight. Unless the CX course is extremely muddy you're unlikely to run continuously for 30 minutes it will be intervals. Your cardio abilities would allow a 30 minute run but if you're the upper side of 40 your joints won't thank you for it.

It's not the fitness which will be the issue, it's your legs and bones aren't used to the impact of running. Too much too soon and you'll end up with Shinsplints or tendonitis. The couch to 5k programs, build up slowly to avoid too much impact too soon....

I can't stress this enough - build it up slowly.  Your current fitness will probably carry you much, MUCH further than your body is conditioned to handle.  I'd imagine 5k is safely achievable after a relatively short amount of time but for me the temptation to push further and faster has resulted in injury over and over again... it's incredibly frustrating that I never seem to learn my lesson!

I went from not much running to a 10km trail run in approx 5 weeks.

The couch to 5k method is pretty sound and reasonably enjoyable, just treat it as lots of small intervals, and increase the number and or length of intervals. Start slow, listen to your body and do lots of core!

I survived the 10km reasonably pain free but it required me to run in an almost constant 'plank' type brace, my core is obviously so flabby I had to consciously brace to support hip flexors etc. which went down the chain and reduced knee pain.

I don't think you can do enough strength work on your glutes and glute medius, but unless you're doing it already don't jump in with heavily weighted stuff, build up.

Couch to 5k is very, very, very much not aimed at people like you.

That's what I thought too

(used to run 5's and 10's before breakfast, 1:40 half marathons, etc. Seems that my calf hadn't read my palmares (is the an equiv for running) before deciding to go bang)

You'll do 5k easy, but you'll feel it the day after.

I'd be inclined to do a couch to 5k just to get your legs used to the change in how the muscles and tendons work.

I rushed into it and caused my feet and knees no end of grief.

I've just done almost exactly this. Cardio-wise, easy. But a lot of leg and back pain in the first few runs. You could get round a 5k right now, no problem. I might be inclined to start with shorter runs, maybe with some hills in them to get you used to the impact.

I'm 45 and used to run a lot but that was many years ago. Now a full time bike guide in the summer with knee and back damage. Ran a lot this autumn to try to build up knees and back before the snowboard season. Worked out well. Could jog 5k right away, took a couple of weeks to go for a harder pace. Built it up to 10k after about 5 weeks, another couple of weeks for 10k to feel comfortable.

I think you'll be fine. If it was me I would just do a couple of 20mins easy runs, get the initial/inevitable DOMS over with and then just get into it. 

I'd maybe put-off doing any sprint intervals for some time though (if that is something you were planning) and personally I feel like hill repeats are much easier on the body than any sprinting type of intervals (I'm 43). 

Also, and I am sure you don't need me to tell you, but trail running is way more fun than road running so I occasionally drive out somewhere to run in the hills

build it up slowly. Your current fitness will probably carry you much, MUCH further than your body is conditioned to handle.

This is what I was going to say. You are fit enough to do it easily but you need to build up. I expect you'll find the pace of Couch to 5K very slow and want to run more and push harder but stick with it. It won't take long to get conditioned, and even then you should still be running slow for at least some runs so its a good habit to get into. Stretching afterwards is a good idea too. Much easier to do after a run than a ride IME.

Excellent. Shall we start a poll on whether Branes's next thread is:

Is 20 mins a good time for a first attempt at 5K?

Or

Ruptured achilles, how long until I can walk again?

If you've ran before and you're otherwise fit then just build it slowly, but not quite at couch to 5k slowly - it really does build up slow and you'll get frustrated/bored. 

I used to run loads but have mainly cycled for the last few years but got back into it this year. I tried couch to 5k and sacked it off after 3 runs. And just reverted to listening to my legs/body and built it up at my own rate, doing shorter 2-3km runs then upping the distance slowly. 

Running fitness is completely different to cycling fitness IMHO to I'd say build up steady

I'm nowhere near as fit as you and had let my cycling drop off quite a bit but have previously ran 1/2 and full marathons.

Decided that with cold weather the quickest way to get my fitness back was to dig my trainers out. I dont like running and it is very much a means to an end. Started out with 2 miles and aim is 5k by Xmas and then poss build up to 10k by March

I guess it partly depends on how old you are as well I'm 51 so need to take it steady whilst my teenage son seems to be able to churn out 5-10 miles whenever he wants with no build up

Just do it. It's half an hour of steady jogging. No need to overcomplicate things seeing as you're already fit and active.

Remember to warm your legs up a bit first, and don't set off at a sprint.

You'll probably feel it in your legs for 3 days afterwards, but your body will adapt.

depends how old you are. If you're under 40 just running it would fine I'm sure. If you're over 50 your feet, ankles, knees etc might not like it so much!

I’m very fit by normal people’s standards

Modest too 😉

"Couch to 5k" is for people who spend more time on the sofa than outside and literally cannot run 5km, not people who could run it at a sensibly slow pace (me) or people who frequently race bikes or do some other competitive sport... If you're doing something active for more than 30 consecutive minutes once or twice a week, you can definitely run 5k...

I'd just go out, run 5k at whatever feels like a comfortable, sustainable pace and see how you go. Then decide if you want to carry on doing it a couple of times a week as a bit of winter maintenance, try to improve your times or sack it off for more time on a bike/trainer...

i just made up a training plan for you! i have no experience and do not have the foggiest idea what i'm talking about, but here you go 🐱‍🐉

A. Run 15 minutes as slow as you can

B. 3 days later do very slow 15 minutes again

C. after another 3 days do it again

D. Done! Go and run 5k at a comfy pace and get a nice friend to rub your legs afterwards as a treat.

The couch to 5k program is as much about protecting your joints as it is CVS fitness, so I'd still recommend following it

I'm an infrequent runner and heavier person in general, I cycle commute 7 miles each way 2-3 times a week. I ran park run last weekend, not fast as I am not and have never been fast, turned out it was my 50th parkrun, I started running them something like 15 years ago!

You probably already know if you are comfortable with running 5k, but if not, go and if it starts to hurt, stop.

Go slow, build up slow. You've got very strong legs they are going to wreck themselves at full power! Takes time to sort technique and get used to the impacts and instability

I've picked up running and put it down again so many times.

For me, if I don't come back via c25k, I generally don't make it back before niggles kick in.

Pretty sure you could fire off a fast 5k but personally I started very slow, conscious that it would be very easy to injure myself.

My first run was maybe a mile at 10min mile pace or less, and by the time I got back I felt like my calves had been pumped up to 100psi.

Took me many months before I could run 10 mile and not suffer for a week or two after. It's incredibly hard on your body compared to cycling.

I was only comfortable doing a fast 5k a couple of months in. Could have done it on day one but my body wouldn't have thanked me. 

I'd definitely recommend using something like a foam roller on calves and shins before and after your run to keep them supple. Complements the stretching routine well.

And leave a couple of nights sleep between the runs whatever the distance you're doing. Give those legs time to repair a bit and if they're feeling particularly tight on that second morning, more foam rolling / stretching (while warm) and give it another nights recovery, perhaps go for a ride / swim / weights instead that day.

It sounds from your post like you already know what's what...

Ignore the utter weapons above who've said to just smash it out. I know too many people who went from being very fit cyclists to very injured by doing exactly that. I think one notable cycling friend even managed to give herself stress fractures in her lower back (if I recall the details correctly) by just turning up to Parkrun and going as fast as she thought she could. Of course you might personally not need a slow buildup, but retrospectively finding out that you did is a miserable way to do things.

I would personally say not to use the couch to 5k programme in particular. You will need to focus more on building technical ability, strength, and resilience for running than most people. For me, it relies too heavily on aerobic fitness as a gatekeeper to avoid overuse injuries (which can come about through remarkably little use if you're not accustomed to running). Technical drill sessions and dynamic warmup drills are going to be very much your friend, along with a very careful progression through interval sessions to build up your running distance and pace.

My (injury-prone) partner has been using an app called none2run to try to build up her running more slowly than couch to 5k does. The slower progression it gives seems fairly on the money to me - I had just started using it to build up to running in barefoot shoes before catching Covid again - but I'm sure there are plenty of other options out there.

lots of good advice here, basically my aerobic fitness is writing cheques my legs can't cash when I'm running, I try to run once a week 5-8km but will often miss a few weeks. It feels easy while you are doing it but I get pretty sore leg muscles  especially quads the next day. The other odd thing is cycling seems to make you a disproportionally better uphill runner than you should be for your speed on the flat.

As important as your running, make sure that you're stretching things out afterwards. If you YouTube then the Running with Ash channel has lots of great follow-along sessions. 

Ignore the utter weapons above who’ve said to just smash it out.

Nobody has actually said this though 🫤

+1 on the conditioning thing

Build up to it, but not nearly as gradually as the couch to 5k programme.

Did it myself a few years ago, can vouch for the legs taking a while to adapt.

Last year I did C25k, 3 runs per week and ended up with a calf injury anyway shortly after getting back to 5km.  This year I decided to only run once per week and worked out my own progression, and it only took 3 or 4 weeks to be running continuously (now up to about 7km).  I have been doing a lot more yoga this year which I think has helped stretch out the calves, but for me the recovery between runs seems to be as important as what you actually do during the runs.

Bike fitness and running fitness are different; as you've said, your heart and lungs can write cheques your legs may not be able to cash; that's certainly what I found out when I started running properly a few years back. Take it nice and easy, and when you get sore legs after a run, take it as a sign to stop or seriously ease off for a bit until your body's used to it.

I used an incredibly dull year at an employer a few years back to train for a half marathon in my lunchtimes - I had a couple of 5k off road routes to tap out, and then I'd try and do increasingly longer runs at weekends until I accidentally ran a half without thinking about it, a month or so before the actual event.

Trail running is a lot more interesting than road - I trained off road, ran on the road and was pretty bored by the experience, aside from the fact I was running around the route (Reigate Half) with loads of people.

Perhaps start one of the half marathon training programmes here:  https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/half-marathon/a764179/half-marathon-training-plans/

Of course you might personally not need a slow buildup, but retrospectively finding out that you did is a miserable way to do things.

This, 10x over

I'd build up to it over a couple of months, when I took up a bit of running, my hip flexors and Achilles needed a bit of time to adjust and strengthen.

I'd use an indoor running machine as they are softer on your knees and it will be a damn site warmer than outside, which will also be kinder on your body.

Ha, I am 56 and have just started down the C25K route. Now 1 week in. Am a fit cyclist but find running very difficult and usually end up with knackered knees whenever I do it. First week has been really great, have enjoyed it. My wife has kept me company as she used to be a very keen runner but had to stop due to niggling injuries. Do it. Follow the programme and you'll find it easy I am sure. We are already adding a bit of extra into the routine as the 8 minutes of actual running in the first weeks' sessions are pretty easy if you are half way fit.

I meant to link to this channel earlier

https://www.youtube.com/@RunBetterwithAsh

An easy way to grow to hate running is to do too much, too soon, on legs that aren't used to it. As a reasonably fit cyclist, I used to go out for occasional half hour jogs and have a pretty miserable time of it. DOMS is a bitch and joints that just aren't used to the demands will suffer.

You can be a bit more ambitious than the c25k plan but it won't kill you to take things a bit more gently than you need to.

I've started running for the first time ever over the last 6months or so.  mainly because my 8 year old son is massively into it.   I can could do a 25min 5k pretty much straight away but hurt loads, mainly the arches of my feet.  randomly ran my first 10 ever last month in roughly 50mins.  but of i try to go any faster it absolutley destroys me.  no idea why, but I hurt for almost a week after.  currently having a rest to see if it'll sort the foot pain.  

probably I'm just agreeing with everyone else about taking it easier than you think you need to

I'm with the be careful camp from my experience. Cycling didn't in any way prepare my feet/ankles/shins/knees/hips for the repetitious impact I got from running (minimal/barefoot style shoes probably played a big part of that). I used to get shin splints very easily when I started out. I'd say it took my lower body a good couple of years to adapt before I started to errrr find my feet. When I was running regularly, it felt great to add a few short sprints into a run, to see how fast I could run. One time, I went out for a run and it felt easy!

You just know now,that the OP is going to hit back with “How can I get under 16 minutes ” 😆 🤣

Nah, I'm not that ambitious...however:

Is 20 mins a good time for a first attempt at 5KΩ

Or

Ruptured achilles, how long until I can walk again?

Funny you should mention 20 minutes as that is an initial goal....Mrs B is a 21-something and the 17 yr old did 20-something a few years ago, so of course, bragging rights.

Unless the CX course is extremely muddy you’re unlikely to run continuously for 30 minutes it will be intervals.

You did the Nationals last year then? That was the race that got me thinking about doing a bit of running again, 27 minutes not pedalling...I mean there was a bit of a downhill at one point, and yes it wasn't continuous, but I could still walk next day.

Anyway, looks like I'll be going with the majority and going for a slow build up, maybe a slightly accelerated c25k. Mostly don't want to **** up my riding, so I WILL resist the temptation to smash a Parkrun next weekend then.

I bought a Garmin Forerunner watch a few years ago thinking I'd take up running again (not having run for a good few years).

My first run was a gentle 3.5km then a 5km run two days later and within four weeks I'd graduated to 10km. I wasn't trying to break any records though, and I just made sure I stretched after each run. It helped that all the runs were flat.

I suspect you're overthinking this! 😉

Just to add to all the advice above about taking it slow. My personal experience is that it's very easy to overdo it running and then set yourself back a lot. If you take it too slowly, you can just step it up a bit the next day. If you overdo it, you're liable to be spending a week or more recovering from injury. Ask me how I know.

I'm a bit surprised that people are still saying 'just go out and run 5K' on the basis that's what they did and it was OK. Do they dispute that others in a similar situation have done just that and ended up with injuries, including some severe? Or do you think we're lying?
Frankly on the risk benefit balance it's shit advice and I'm calling you out on it, stop posting shit advice!!
(meant slightly tongue in cheek but the sentiment is real)

Has anyone actually said that? OP asked for opinions from the forum based on their own experiences, not the most risk free or scientifically evidenced way to avoid injury.

As requested, he's received a range of responses which he's free to pick from but I don't think any of them suggest he go out and run a 5k as fast as he can straight away.

5k to couch is a better goal 😉

Has anyone actually said that?

Just get on with it. 5k is a fart roon a carpark

Yup. Get off sofa, run 5k, sit back down. Job jobbed.

Give over, ‘work up to it’! You could go out now and run a Parkrun faster and beat a minimum of half the people there. Couch to 5k is very, very, very much not aimed at people like you.
Put your shoes on and run.

Alternatively, find me a genuine running website or coach that in answer to the question 'I'm pretty fit but haven't run in ages, how should I approach doing a 5K' would give those answers above?

I think its fair to say some of those answers are exaggerated/sarcastic responses for comedic effect, I'm sure the OP can make his own assessment.

I doubt he came on to the STW forum expecting evidence backed advice from a professional coach. He asked for real world opinions and experiences which he has now got and is free to choose from.

Personally I agree that he shouldn't bother with any of the couch>[x]k plans, he's racing cross every weekend so he's not coming off the couch but I see he's made his decision up there^ anyway so its a moot point- I'm sure he'll be fine though, he's just a guy looking to do some park-runs.

Has anyone actually said that?

The very first reply to the OP

kerley
Free Member
I am crap at running and also hate running and haven’t run for 30 years but when I did try running a few years back running 3 miles was a piece of cake. Not sure what the harm is in just going and running 3 miles is but no doubt those with more expertise will be along soon to tell me.

If your legs aren't accustomed to running, you have a good chance of injury. It will take you longer to recover from the injury that it will to gradually work your way up to running 5k by starting with 1k, then extending it over a period of weeks.

Nothing to add over and above my last point tbh

When I first ran as a reasonably fit cyclist (60 miles a week commuting) my lungs and heart were fine. My legs ached a bit afterwards as I wasn't used to my muscles being used in that way.

But yeah just go out and run and I'd expect you to find a 25 minute 5k easy.

Do not go out and just run if you want to be able to start 'running' properly

Cycling is almost impossible to cause an injury bar crashing. To an untrained runner, you can cause an injury to yourself that will put you out of exercise for months, in 3km

Start very very carefully, much slower than you feel like you can run, for much shorter distances. Ideally every day or every other day. For quite a long time (5-10 weeks).

When cycling friends ask me how to get into running, I often prescribe: 1km a day, jogging at just above fast walking pace, for 7 weeks.

It has to be frustratingly slow, frustratingly short, for a frustrating amount of time.

Then by month 3 your body is like "Oh I'm a runner. Oh I can go out and train every day and not be injured, I'm used to this".

People advising you to just go out and run are offering very very bad advice and I suspect are hobby runners who go out for an hour run once a week thinking that makes them a runner.