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I haven't seen the paperwork yet, but our boy sprained his ankle snowboarding in France. He had to be brought down on a sledge by (he says) the ski patrol... €430
X-rays and treatment at the local clinic was "only" €150
He's also been banned from the slopes because he's injured
Is this normal?
He's insured and has an EHIC
TIA
Yep seems quite cheap. They don't like injured skiers going back on the slopes, I'd hate to think what costs might be incurred by ignoring the "ban".
A broken wrist is usually plastered beyond the elbow to stop you returning to the slopes.
Dunno about “normal” but sounds about what I’d expect to be billed. Insurance obvs will cover it. Ehic won’t help. Was he even asked for his ehic (my daughter wasn’t when she broke her thumb boarding)
The banned from the slopes bit is the hard part. My daughter was about 11 I think and the accident happened on day 2. Was in a cast. After a day or so of making snow angels she realised she could hold a ski pole so she wore one of my gloves and got back on the piste.
You will be able to get a refund on the unused portion of the ski hire lift pass and lessons as well I should think. Silver lining etc.
My daughter’s cast was tiny. She could bend her wrist. It was a tiny flake fracture though. Would have been a sprain in an adult but kiddy bones are soft. Healed up in 2 weeks.
A few years back a friend of mine fell over and did something to his shoulder. He got strapped up and went out again. Fell over again and did the other shoulder. The rescue team turned up, saw the strapped up shoulder so tried to pick him up by the one he'd just broken. Hurt quite a lot. He then spent the rest of the week with both arms strapped up drinking beer through a straw.
Sounds about right to me - where we go has a €300 charge for any engagement with ski patrol.
In contrast Miss OTS broke her leg at Cairngorm and got stretchered/skidoed off the hill and into an ambulance for free.
I would guess the 150 was because of the EHIC card. Would probably have been more otherwise. Be glad you weren't in the US
430 sounds ok for ski patrol. That's what your insurance is for
You need one of these to avoid on slope rescue fees. https://carreneige.com/en/
Jnr fell and whacked his head (cracked his helmet) but was guided to a lift to download rather than on a blood wagon. He was then treated at the medical centre (observed and given air), so those were the only charges we got. About €90, bit this was in Andorra.
A broken wrist is usually plastered beyond the elbow to stop you returning to the slopes.
How does that stop you skiing? A few years back I was hit by a boarder who wrecked my shoulder, couldn't use my right arm at all. Still skied the rest of the week; didn't make any real difference bar some discomfort.
430 euros sounds like a bargain
Lends weight to the viewpoint that insurance is a bit of a ripoff and a bit unnecessary.
I think if you need a helicopter it can go up to 5000ish. For getting skied off a mountain and delivered to a hospital it sounds amazingly cheap
Four years ago my then six year old was wiped out by an elegantly carving skier at AdH. She was splinted up and sledged behind a skidoo to an ambulance that took her about a km to the local clinic. Fortunately X-rays revealed no damage. Bill came to about £200 all in.
EHIC isn't worth the plastic it's written on in ski resorts.
Most clinics (all ?) in French ski resorts are private, not state, so they don't care about EHIC. You can claim back off your holiday insurance (less any excess) assuming you have ski cover. I think the optional ski cover you can buy at the ticket desk covers cost of getting you off the mountain including helicopter lift if required but not clinic costs.
Thanks all. Concerned that our lad was being over-charged, but obviously not. Bring on the claim form, that'll be his job 🙂
thegeneralist
Member
430 euros sounds like a bargain
Lends weight to the viewpoint that insurance is a bit of a ripoff and a bit unnecessary.
Until you have a proper crash, get flown to Grenoble, kept in hospital for a week until you’re in a position to be repatriated. At which point the insurance co either have to book a row of seats at short notice or just a private jet, along with the medical staff they need to fly with you. Then you get papped off to the NHS as soon as you hit the UK of course
This is a good value insurance product to cover a family especially if you ski often or other mountain sports in France.
At the main ski station you should see a schedule of prices for rescue in the resort. There are prices for ski patrol assistance, sled evac, heli evac etc.
I can't open that link, but with it being a French company make sure that they'd repatriate you back to the UK
Repatriation would be my worry if I used Carte Neige.
My understanding with EIHC is that you pay the French hospital and reclaim from the relevant UK department when you get home. Insurance often says that if you don't have and use an EIHC, you're not covered for the amount you could claimed with it.
Price for rescue sounds about right. What resort were you in? Rescue costs are published at the start of each season.
Here are some for comparison:
Ban from the slope is a bit unusual. Who issued it? How did they know about the injury?
Also, as greybeard is worrying, carte neige does cover repatriation within Europe (geographical, not just the EU; and if you live outside that they'll still take you somewhere nearer home / to a friend if you want).
https://carreneige.com/en/faq/
https://carreneige.com/static/documents/2018-2019/depliant-cn-saison-en.355a3cfd6c66.pdf
430 euros sounds like a bargain
Lends weight to the viewpoint that insurance is a bit of a ripoff and a bit unnecessary.
£20 to save yourself paying €430 seems sensible not a ripoff at all.
And as mentioned above, if you need any serious treatment or a helicopter and you tried to be “smart” and self insure, you’re screwed with a bill for £thousands.
I know someone that broke his leg (quite badly as it turned out) in a tumble on his skis. His trip from a Swiss piste to a French hospital included sled, 2 x helicopters, and ambulance.
Apparently the day after his surgery, the parties involved in this transport adventure were lined up at his bedside with credit card machines at the ready. So I would say that insurance is probably sensible.
With that being said - always read the exclusions on the Winter Sports part of the insurance (whatever it may be) carefully. Ski manufacturers are keen for you to get 'All-Mountain' and 'Freeride'. Insurers, not so much.
I had stitches in Zermat after a skiing accident, 400 Euro IIRC. Just paid by CC and claimed it back on work's travel insurance policy (which also covers holidays).
2011 managed to destroy a vertebrae with a camelbak lid after a unscheduled launch across a slope!
Got stretchered off and that was about €700 i think, followed by €195 for an x ray. Then €300 for the ambulance to grenoble.
As soon as i got to hospital all they wanted was my ehic no insurance at all. One spinal fusion surgery, one spinal cage surgery and three week stay all done on ehic.
travel insurance covered everything else including repatriation is a twin engine plane with peter the pilot and an ambulance from airport to home.
Euros in Zermatt?
£20 to save yourself paying €430 seems sensible not a ripoff at all
Where the **** can you get off piste ski insurance, which also includes park, for a family for twenty quid?
Dream on
Has anyone even mentioned off-piste and park cover until right now? No you're not likely to get Winter Sports cover for £20, but given the potential size of the bills (and also don't undervalue how useful Assistance Companies can be as part of the policy) you'd have to be mad/stupid to not have cover
Where the **** can you get off piste ski insurance, which also includes park, for a family for twenty quid?Dream on
Wow. You seem tense.
You’ve also imagined a lot of scenarios there that weren’t mentioned in the op.
Was the op’s son off piste or in a park?
and does he have a family of four ?
Only one of us is dreaming things up 👍
EHIC just guarantees the same public health care treatment as the locals get to any EU resident. French public health care isn't that great and certainly doesn't cover rescue from ski resorts or probably most locations unless you happen to get a public ambulance.
Likewise the hospital care depends where you're taken. Not all are public or may only cover basic public care.
EHIC also doesn't necessarily mean free like UK. If the locals have to pay for stuff under public care, then we do also.
Travel insurance with ski cover is vital but the small print varies a lot between them. Some may not even cover rescue from slopes. Outside of accidents, stuff like piste closure is pathetic cover compared to the cost of ski passes, as is flight delays (thank god for EU rules allowing you to get much better compensation from airlines*).
p.s. Usually you need to have contacted your travel insurance company before any chargeable treatment / recovery etc. They may refuse if you put in a claim they didn't agree to up front.
You still need EHIC though as insurance companies may insist you have one and made attempts to use it prior to racking up costs you'll be claiming.
Post Brexit, EHIC is gone. * - and that flight delay compensation.
"EHIC isn’t worth the plastic it’s written on in ski resorts."
I got two days in hospital, surgery, lots of X-rays and some nice titanium mods for less than my insurance excess (€100) thanks to EHIC.
"My understanding with EIHC is that you pay the French hospital and reclaim from the relevant UK department when you get home."
Not how it worked for me, the hospital just charged the EU citizen rate on production of the card.
The EHIC scheme is awesome, shame...
That's impressive Ajaj, which resort?
Bourg-Saint-Maurice
Going back a decade or two, piste patrol in Val d refused to take any action for my mum until a credit card had been handed over. (ACL as it transpired after getting to Hospital)
Maybe just the people I ski with, but ski insurance that doesn't cover OP/ park is a waste of time. Who the heck does their skiing wholly on piste?
Travel insurance is a pet peeve of mine. Everyone knows someone with a disaster story to tell but nobody ever tells the other side. For example, from my list of acquaintances off the top of my head:
* Broken foot in Norway kayaking. Hospital treatment. X-ray, bandages, crutches.
* Bladder reflux and bad kidney infection in a 5 month old child. 3 weeks on a drip on hospital for both mother and baby. Repatriation back to Britain.
* snowboarding injury in St Anton requiring x-ray, plaster cast, investigation etc etc
* sorting a detached toenail. Cleaning, bandaging, creams, medicine etc
* doctor treatment with antibiotics in saalbach
Total cost of all the above treatments was far less than a couple of years' travel insurance premium.
Son's rung the insurance company, they'll cover his medical costs and sledge ride. I don't think that the medical centre was interested in his EHIC, and would only accept cash immediately after treatment for the medical bill. Ski patrol gave him a week to settle up
Less clear is reclaiming the unused portion of his ski pass, but he's been given formal paperwork for his ban which will help, hopefully
Just to clarify; he's over there with some friends and we're in the UK never having skied or snowboarded. In the context of ignorance €430 seemed a bit dear, but obviously not 🙂 I think that they had group insurance, about £35 each
If you want to see where your money goes watch this
https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/show/AP-1N849ESGS2111/the-horn
It's a full series not just a 5 minute youtube job
Just amazing how busy they are. I think they peak at nearly 40 helicopter rescues per day, this is in Zermat
Price for rescue sounds about right.
Maybe it is, but is it the normal
price to be rescued from a sprained ankle ??
Yes, because it doesn’t matter what the injury is, if you need carted off the hill it’s always going to cost around the same amount for them to do
Yes, because it doesn’t matter what the injury is, if you need carted off the hill it’s always going to cost around the same amount for them to do
True, I was having a little dig at someone being rescued from a sprained ankle. But if it's covered by insurance ir doesn't matter if the cost was €430, €4,300 or €43,000.
I was having a little dig at someone being rescued from a sprained ankle
Life's an experience, maybe he'd do it differently with that experience? Or maybe it's a grade 3 sprain? It isn't, but I think you get the point 🙂
I used to be a Patroller (and am currently recertifying). When I’m I. The Alps I always pay the insurance fee with the lift pass (season pass in my care) and run a Dogtag as well - first one means if I do spanner myself or one of the family is spannered they will get off with no hassle. Dogtag picks up the rest. Cost of running Patrol is quite high beyond the normal safety stuff. As said there is (has) to be in france anyway a posted list of rescue costs. In UK we were v lucky in that historically rescues were done by raf and seen as good training. Now it’s outsourced things are still good but a touch more picky. I have one friend who is only alive due to a pretty epic bit of flying by a raf pilot at night to get him. Anyhoo, get insurance and ride safe.
As for ski patrol, I went for a couple of runs before the lifts open with the ski patrol in Les Arcs last week. Can recommend this is you are in a resort Ehich does the same.
Where the **** can you get off piste ski insurance, which also includes park, for a family for twenty quid?
Dream on
We pay 3€ per day on our ski pass and it covers the lot. This is with snowrisk. Honest, it’s not a dream..!
Forgot to mention that my lad broke his arm on the 1st day this year in Morzine. Clinic were more than happy to fit hi-tech removable cast rather than the above elbow version. Clinic were brilliant but really couldn’t care less about E111 - just chuckles and said claim from insurance.
Who the heck does their skiing wholly on piste?
Surprisingly a lot. Same bunch as those who go to one single resort in a multi-resort area and do the same half a dozen runs all week.
Also, some parts of Europe, especially Italy I've found, they all just stick to the pistes, and some fence a lot of the good stuff off.
That's why I like North America. Off piste is massive and within boundaries, patrolled and avalanche controlled. I'm never too sure how the insurance works though if it says no off piste but it's within resort boundary. I always get the impression that rule is for out of bounds stuff, backcountry etc, but like a lot of insurance it's deliberately vague.
p.s. Barclays Travel Pack insurance with their bank account is one that has off piste exclusion, or at least you have to have a "guide" (!). Shame as otherwise I'd get it as works out a decent deal and a month worth of ski cover.
You can of course instruct whoever you're with to drag you to the nearest piste in case of an accident.
You won’t get banned from skiing but you might be advised not to
He's back now and the "ban" is a medical certificate (in French) saying that he's unfit to ski for 21 days
Off piste is massive and within boundaries, patrolled and avalanche controlled. I’m never too sure how the insurance works though
Check your policy wording. Carefully. For family holidays, where any "off piste" is just slackcountry and well-within boundaries, we just use Columbus Direct who give pretty decent winter sports cover. Even then they have some wiggle room.
From the policy document I have from last week:
Winter sports activities
Where the appropriate additional premium has been paid for winter sports cover you will be
covered for skiing and snowboarding as well as the following winter sports activities.✓ Air boarding
✓ Big foot skiing
✓ Cross country skiing (recognised paths)
✓ Dry slope skiing/snowboarding
✓ Glacier skiing/walking
✓ Ice cricket *
✓ Ice windsurfing *
✓ Kick sledging
✓ Langlauf
✓ Mono-skiing
✓ Nordic skiing (recognised paths)
✓ Off-piste skiing/snowboarding (within resort boundaries)
✓ Ski randonnee
✓ Ski run walking
✓ Ski skimming
✓ Ski touring
✓ Skidooing ‡*
✓ Sledging
✓ Snow blading
✓ Snow shoeing
✓ Snow tubing
✓ Snow zorbing
✓ Snowcat skiing (with a professional guide)
✓ Snowmobiling ‡*
✓ Tobogganing...
YOU ARE NOT COVERED
1. For any accident occurring whilst you are skiing or snowboarding off-piste outside the resort boundaries or without a qualified guide.
(realistically who has a qualified guide when cutting off-piste, in-bounds, between two adjacent pistes?)
For proper out-of-bounds off-piste adventures I've used MPI Brokers which was set up by an off-piste skier and is recommended by Henry's Avalanche Talk.
https://henrysavalanchetalk.com/hat-advice/off-piste-piste-ski-insurance/
(realistically who has a qualified guide when cutting off-piste, in-bounds, between two adjacent pistes?)
That's part of the resort in some cases. The demand for safe off-piste runs has prompted the creation of a "zone sécurisée non damée" in some resorts. The area is made safe from avalanche, natural risks are signed but the pistes are unprepared and loosely defined.
That’s part of the resort in some cases.
Yeah it is part of the resort, controlled and within bounds. However I think the insurance company may/could still argue that you are "off piste" without a qualified guide.
I rarely ski of piste, I just prefer skiing on piste. And it has been like that for 40 years.
you are “off piste” without a qualified guide.
Even though there is no suggestion you should hire a guide to use the area (and a guide would point you at EFS), ski instructors (who aren't guides) are free to use it for teaching, it's covered by the ski patrol, in local law it's part of the resort... .
Anyhow, ask your usual insurer what they have to offer, Allianz covers me for every sport/outdoor activity which isn't specifically excluded, which as I remember it is base jumping and a couple of other crazy things you can do in the air.
Going back a decade or two, piste patrol in Val d refused to take any action for my mum until a credit card had been handed over. (ACL as it transpired after getting to Hospital)
Either you or your mum are grossly distorting the truth. The “non-assistance à personne en danger” law has been en vigeur longer than that.
Were you there Edukator? I'm not sure you were. Seems a bit rude.
It's extremely rude to grossly mislead about French law and French ski patrols, it's xenophobic, racist even.
French ski patols have not do not and will not refuse to rescue someone "until a credit card had been handed over". In France you do not need to carry money or any form of identity. Ski patrols are there to rescue people however rich or poor, whatever their origin and without discrimination. Under no condition will they ever not rescue someone because they cannot produce a credit card. If they did it would be a professional "faute grave" and they would be liable to prosecution for "non assistance en personne en danger". Nothing has changed for a very long time, 1985 for la loi de la montagne which covers rescue and 1992 for non-assistance à personne en danger. Well before your "decade or two".
I wasn't there, nor perhaps were you, that's the only reason I'm not calling you a liar. I have however skied Val d'Isere since 1987, reside in a French ski resort in the Winter, have a son who is an ESF instructor, and ski regularly with ski gendarmes. I've been present at rescues most years for the last "decade or two" because I'm often skinning up outside the jalons when people have accidents and personally take the "non-assistance à personne en danger" law seriously so I scamper over, giver first aid and stay with people until they're carried off by the ski patrol - it has never ever been a question rescue being dependant on payment.
La loi de la montagne 1985 stipulates that it's the commune (resort) that is financially responsible for rescue. Once you have been rescued they can bill you, but they can't make rescue dependant on payment.
In France you do not need to carry money or any form of identity.
Can I clarify, please, that you mean "... in order to be rescued"? I've understood that it is a legal requirement, in France, to carry ID and prove your identity to police or gendarmes if asked; is that still so?
Game, set and match Edukator.
Chateau sir, Chateau.
Really nice to see people questioning the bollox that is routinely trotted out by insurance companies and random stories.
As to the person above talking about wiggle room...... it's not wiggle room, they just won't pay out. End of. Why waste money buying it
No need to carry ID in France or even possess any. The national ID card isn't obligatory, the government says so:
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F11601
However, it's quite handy having some form of ID on you and can save a lot of time if the police or gendarmes do take an interest, especially if you're foreign.