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Hmmmm split the party faux pas.... sounds like the Guide was a bit of a twit. Not sure if we're debating poor guiding or decisions made in extremis?
<bollox double post>
Real climbers and mountaineers look after their own (and that includes all sherpas and others in the party) a mate was mountaineering '96 when they came across two sherpas who had been left to die by their commercial party who had paid for an evacuation, but didn't want to pay the extra for the locals. They were seen as a disposable item and a hinderance to getting back to comforts of their hotel and the flights home.
grum - MemberQuite right, so lets leave the last words to someone who has -
This was the story I referred to earlier - why is that the guy with no legs got picked on for not helping?
I don't think he is personally, he is just the figurehead (because of his disability he is the most famous) for the groups that decided the summit was more important than a mans life
As said before, to me there is a distinct difference between stopping an ascent to help, and being [u]unable[/u] to help on a descent...seems some in the thread are purposefully blurring these lines.
However, i am not a climber...
I thought we were discussing the commercial objective getting in the way of humanist values; giving a sporting and commercial objective a higher value than someone's life. If 40 people walked past someone in difficulty on Mont Blanc they could all be prosecuted for "non assistance à personne en danger". It needs something like that to stop such callous behaviour on high mountains. If you'd offered those 40 people that walked past $200 000 each to participate in a rescue attempt the man would have been saved.
when they came across two sherpas who had been left to die by their commercial party who had paid for an evacuation, but didn't want to pay the extra for the locals.
That's extraordinary - did that really happen? Sounds like something the UN should be involved in
The UN policing Mount Everest? Whatever next? 😆
Well it needs something. Colonial style exploitation of the local population, leaving people to die when you have the means to save them, turning the place into a cross between a morgue and a rubbish tip. A zone in which the normal values of mountian lovers are in no way respected. No wonder Sir Edmund is not happy.
Given that the majority sit uncaring in centrally heated houses day in day out watching people dying on the news, vote for the party that will cut taxes the most and never mind the social cost to others, and not stop to help someone in the town centre, I think its unlikely that any other attitude will exist in the majority of climbers either.
How did this turn into a climbers are heartless bastards and nurses are not worthy' thread?
How did this turn into a climbers are heartless bastards and nurses are not worthy' thread?
Easy, it was posted on STW.
I guess the most important point that hasn't been covered is whether the nurses were wearing helmets and also if it's OK for one climber to pass another on the inside. I demand answers!!
It's like that on Helvellyn. Bodies of Red Socks everywhere 🙁
Has Sir Edmund Hilary made similar comments about climbers other than David Sharp?
It seems to me that David Sharps actions were so far into recklessness that I would not be surprised if others felt that they didn't want to risk their lives saving him.
Edukator - Member
Well it needs something. Colonial style exploitation of the local population, leaving people to die when you have the means to save them, turning the place into a cross between a morgue and a rubbish tip. A zone in which the normal values of mountian lovers are in no way respected. No wonder Sir Edmund is not happy.
Edukator, I've found some of your posts on this site high-handed and patronising, but in this case I absolutely 100% agree with you. No spare words, no flannel, no distracting bullshit.
Really? I thought I was just being arrogant, opinionated and self-righteous as usual.
Well, every now and then, it coincides with being right.
I've ski toured with a couple of British UIAGM guides based in Argentiere who were also involved in hauling people up Everest. We spent quite a bit of time with them on long tours and nothing they said ever convinced me that this was anything other than a money making scam. They recognise that to have climbed Everest is the ultimate boast for an egotist and they pander to this egotism. It is naked commercial greed and exploitation of the mountain. I've been climbing mountains, skiing through and off them and MTBing them for 47 years and I know there are mountaineering exploits far harder and requiring far more skill and strength of character than Everest but these are unknown to the public and not boast-worthy.
The same British guides are amongst the investors behind an hotel high up on the Chinese side, again as far as I could see this was nothing other than a means of getting more clients up the mountain and earning more revenue from it.
Last year I was invited to go on a cattle class Everest trip and declined. Pay $40k then someone points at the top and says off you go. I should have done it 25 years ago when I had a more interesting opportunity.
I can't see the value in reaching the summit now other than ego-****ing.
Edukator - MemberA zone in which the normal values of mountian lovers are in no way respected. No wonder Sir Edmund is not happy.
Edukator - MemberReally? I thought I was just being arrogant, opinionated and self-righteous as usual.
Who the **** are these "mountain lovers" whose values you automatically assume should have primacy ? Who the **** is Sir Edmund Hilary in the grand scheme of things ? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions that the rest of humanity should adhere to. In this regard, your self description seems highly accurate.
Ed's dead...
If climbing Everest was just an 'ego ****' and so straightforward why on earth is it knee deep in corpses?
The 'ordinary route' might not be the epitome of alpine style Himalayan mountaineering but it's still a very serious undertaking. Make no mistake.
"Mountain lovers", people who think it important to leave mountains as they found them bar a few footprints; people who adhere to mountain code of conduct. Sir Ed was the first man up there and spent a lot of time working with the locals when not drunk. Worth listening to IMO, Monkey.
My mate was back on his MTB this morning but still coughing his lungs up whenever the trail went up hill.
if a "mountain lover" were about to die on Everest they would set light to themselves so as not to litter the mountain...