Cookies, data capture. How the heck did that happen?

Did you do your googling at home?

Facebook [messenger]

The root of much evil in my, possibly,  blinkered view.

and I have chatted to a mate on Facebook messenger

Be amazed if they don't know where you live unless you specifically block their trackers in every web browser session you've ever used where you've entered your address.

They then sell your info to a cruise company.

I would imagine that you have agreed (via EULA) that FB can scan all your Messenger posts and use it for marketing....

So basically you told a company whose business model is advertising, where you live and what you are interested in. You have also agreed they can pass this info on (EULA) and they did so...

Nothing very surprising at all really.

They'd probably target the whole street, using geo data, rather than just one address. In that sense it's not "personal" information. They don't know what "you" have been looking for, only what people just like you living where you happen to live have been looking for. Anonymity can still mean targeted in such a focused way that the result is eerily similar as being personally tracked and monitored (and I'd argue can be just as invasive, and speaking for myself, unwelcome).

So yes, googling from home. 

Still pretty shocked, we only started looking 3 days ago. It's clearly not a coincidence and pretty scary from a data mining point of view 

Still pretty shocked, we only started looking 3 days ago. It’s clearly not a coincidence and pretty scary from a data mining point of view

Using FB Messenger was your first mistake....

Use WA, it's encrypted end to end and no one can read the content.

FB Messenger was created to provide FB with more personal info about you, so it can sell more adverts!

You made two mistakes:

1.  You used Google.  If you value privacy, use another search engine like Duck Duck Go, that doesn't track you.

2.  You used Facebook Messenger, where the messages are open.  If you value privacy, use another messenger service that has end to end encryption, like Telegram, Signl or even WhatsApp (also owned by Facebook but doesn't seem to have been ruined by them).

If you really value your privacy, use an Apple device with Apple apps.  That's about as private as you can get without causing yourself too much distress!
https://www.apple.com/privacy/

It's going to be Google. You searched, and clicked, on something linked to a product. Gaining the same precise insight from chatter via any messaging system would be damn hard.

Still pretty shocked, we only started looking 3 days ago

You may have got this the wrong way round.  Why did you start looking 3 days ago?  Maybe they have been doing a bigger campaign and the letter is the final part.

I like your thinking.

 You used Google.

But google services are tied into much more than just searches - it's almost impossible to avoid now.  Facebook - different matter and worse in my eyes.

If you really value your privacy, use an Apple device with Apple apps.

Um.... doubtful.  Can you not get onto Google or Facebook with an Apple device?
That link boasts about nothing that Android doesn't do (AFAIA)

Telegram, Signl

Neither of which are Apple apps!  WA was originally developed by the guys who now have Signal. FB bought it and they left as they didn't like the direction FB was taking it - they started Signal and FB eventually had to incorporate the encryption method developed and used by Signal as they would have lost huge numbers of users.

Correlation does not equal causation. We're getting to the time of year when the northern lights are more visible, so people will be thinking of going to see them, so companies that sell those trips will be pushing their marketing. As mentioned above the likes of Experian give very detailed profiling at a quite granular level without any individuals being identified so you can mail your likely customers (or rather their address) quite easily while staying on the legal side of GDPR.

Did your neighbours receive the same thing? How much other unsolicited mail have you received that wasn't related to stuff you were checking on line?

Company selling trips to see the Northern Lights sends mail shots to people who fit a profile of folk who like to go see the Northern Lights. You clearly fit said profile, as you've admitted yourself your planning to see the lights. So their targeting was spot on. The fact you started looking 3 days beforehand is coincidental, but just shows that now is the time of year that people start to look, so is a good time to advertise.

For sure ad tracking can be intrusive, but this is some cruise company, not Cambridge analytica.

Today the house gets a letter to ‘the occupier’ advertising northern light cruises’.

I don't want to get all deep state and illuminati here.... but. Its winter. People advertise trips to see the northern lights in winter. Mail sent to 'the occupier' has probably been sent to everyone in your postcode 🙂

It’s clearly not a coincidence

Isn't it?

It was addressed to "the occupier" - so they have your address but not your name, and are targeting advertising to you (im)personally by post a couple of days after someone you know mentioned a cruise? That seems wildly implausible to me.

Ask your neighbours if they got one too. I bet they have.

I get letters addressed to "the occupier" from the Conservative Party occasionally, I talk about them online quite a bit but not in a manner where they might think I'm likely to be a receptive target for their mailouts.

Sounds very much like a coincidence. But why let that get in the way of paranoia about snail mail

@nerd telegram is not as secure for messages as WhatsApp and Signal for example.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/telegram-encryption-end-to-end-features

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_cross-platform_instant_messaging_clients

I really don't worry about this too much.

They seem pretty thick with the data sometimes, a case in point:

I need good pliers.

I search for pliers

I read pliers reviews

I search for best price on desired pliers

I order pliers

I track delivery

I sign for delivery

I even review delivery

I post review of pliers

I am happy with pliers

..... I still get adverts for pliers. The very same pliers I have bought.  Their inability to join up the dots is baffling.

You are Chaka Demus and I claim my five Jamaican dollars.

Pure coincidence that you got junk mail about something you discussed. 

It’s not coincidence. It’s modern marketing.

Information about you has been gathered from multiple sources and merged into a single view to create a full profile of you that can be used for targeted marketing.

Here’s a description of one such example technology…

https://www.salesforceben.com/the-drip/complete-guide-to-customer-data-platforms-and-salesforce-cdp/

When I look at my clients’ production systems it’s often quite scary the level of detail they have about people and it’s all data we give willing. But because we don’t give it all in a single place we don’t notice.

I'll tell you what will really bake your noodle.

Three days ago i received mailshots for cruises to see the northern lights.

And now this thread pops up.

I didn't even know the content would involve northern lights cruises.

In fact i actually meant to read the one adjacent to it in the forum. It was only an accident that I'm here.

Mind. Blown.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/baader-meinhof-phenomenon.htm

once you hear about the baader meinhof effect, examples will keep popping up all over the place

I was just talking about that on messenger 3 days ago and now you post this.

It’s not coincidence. It’s modern marketing.

Information about you has been gathered from multiple sources and merged into a single view to create a full profile of you that can be used for targeted marketing.

All that but seemingly not his name.

And all that within 3 days.

You know, the more I think about this, the less sense the Bacofoil explanation makes.

Data gathering I can understand. I'm less inclined to believe that Facebook is routinely scanning your messages, largely because they have little reason to do so when they already have loads of data from tracking cookies and information freely given by its users, but I wouldn't be overly surprised. But profiling happens as we all know and it's big business. It's not a great leap - I'd say it's highly likely in fact - to suspect that the OP's mate was looking online for cruise holidays and Facebook decided "hey, these two people comment on each other's posts a lot, maybe they like the same things" and started serving up related adverts and sponsored posts.

Similarly, a postal campaign I can understand. It's the right time of year for Northern Lights trips, lets stick a few flyers through some doors.

But both joined together? Why would anyone do that, what's to be gained? You've literally got the worst of both worlds, the expense and hassle of leafletting, and the highly complex effort of data gathering, likely beyond the grasp of most normal companies so another expense on top. For what, because someone's mate mentioned a cruise? I'd love to have been on the proposal meeting for that one. "Hey boss, I've had this great idea..." - "Or, we could just send them to addresses in affluent areas using the lookup tool we already have on our website."

I’m less inclined to believe that Facebook is routinely scanning your messages, largely because they have little reason to do so when they already have loads of data from tracking cookies and information freely given by its users, but I wouldn’t be overly surprised.

IMHO FB will because they can. FB don't appear to subscribe to the "just because you can. . . "school of thought as the boss is a sociopath.

You know, the more I think about this, the less sense the Bacofoil explanation makes.

It made no sense for this example. Yes, post appearing on Facebook, adverts on facebook or other websites would. But a flyer with no name on their home within a few days, none whatsoever.

IMHO FB will because they can.

Post a link to a website in a FB post or Messenger and FB HQ kicks off their spiders to instantly crawl over the whole site!

They want to know everything!

I run a cycling club website which uses FB and WA to communicate. 99% of my traffic was FB spiders endlessly crawling the same pages obsessively. Just blocked them all in the end.

Unrelated but a friend of mine who has a brick and mortar business said he has a google device installed that identifies who is visiting his site (customers) and he gets a regular quite detailed roundup report about them / their interests

I would guess that I fit the demographic for cruises and quite likely cruises to the Arctic Circle and aurora, what with being retired ‘n’all, and some close friends of mine have just done a trip to Canada with a cruise incorporated, but while I’ve ’Liked’ quite a few of their Fb posts, so far I’ve not had any mail promotions about such things. Or very much mail at all, really.

I’ll see what drops through my letterbox over the next week or so. I have actually seen the aurora, a mile or so from Avebury in the early hours of the morning. A quite extraordinary experience, I have to say, and totally unexpected.

This is all just subliminal advertising isn’t it you bastards? I’ve never wanted to see the northern bloody lights before and it’s all I can think about now.

he has a google device installed that identifies who is visiting his site (customers) and he gets a regular quite detailed roundup report about them / their interests

What "device" is this that can spy on customers without their knowledge or consent?

Have you reported him to ICO yet?

All that but seemingly not his name.

And all that within 3 days.

In the “typed and deleted” thread someone said they often deleted posts they’re written in threads that are their profession because they can’t be arsed with the arguing when they know they’re right.

This is that thread for me. Customer data aggregation, profiling, segmentation, and use for targeted marketing over all channels is something I, and the very large company I work for, do for household names you all use.

Once upon a time it was coincidence. Now it’s not. You are tracked in everything you do online and it’s being stored by someone. Machine learning is then stitching together unbelievably massive amounts of data that wasn’t previously possible to build very very accurate records of people.

What “device” is this that can spy on customers without their knowledge or consent?

I know of shopping centres that have mobile phone tracking picocells fitted. As you enter the shopping centre, your phone is tracked around and they build a profile of what stores you enter. This data is then sold to the shopping centre owner.

The centre owner then combines that data with other data they have such as loyalty cards, parking ANPR etc to create further detailed profiles of customers. All of that is then use to arrange the layout and advertising in the centre.

I know of one where the digital display screens will change the adverts based on the profile of the mobile phones walking towards it.

Have you reported him to ICO yet?

Remember Google Beacon? No idea what’s replaced it, but Google must have some more uptodate means of working out what shops are busy at what times of the day and week… they show it when you search for physical stores. It could be that they know nothing about customers other than when/if they visit, but I’d say that’s unlikely.

Again, it’s not identifying the individual in the reports handed over to the retailer, just telling you what kind of customer visits. Legally different, but these days can be so precise as to target you (and others like you) very effectively.

Back to the OP example, you could mailshot a geographic region not an individual based on web or shop activity.

Google must have some more uptodate means of working out what shops are busy at what times of the day and week…

They collate location data from phones signed into Google accounts. Signed into Google Maps app? You’re tracked unless you opted out.

And unsurprisingly they link that with your browsing. Signed into Chrome? Tracked unless opted out.

Almost nobody opts out.

As long as they don’t store PII without consent, it’s legal. And you’d be surprised at what people consent to.

Google must have some more uptodate means of working out what shops are busy at what times of the day and week…

Yeah it’s just mobile phone data, the same as how it works for traffic build up.

In the “typed and deleted” thread someone said they often deleted posts they’re written in threads that are their profession because they can’t be arsed with the arguing when they know they’re right.

I don’t think anyone is arguing in the amount of data farming that can be archived and used, but this time I’d go with pure coincidence. It’s far too quick and came through as the occupier, seems a small target for the cost of posting out a few rather than just junk email.

Probably coincidence this time, I agree. But using “occupier” ties in with geographic targeting. They won’t have the data to tie to an addressee. Or more accurately, they shouldn’t be combining data that would allow them to do that.

You might be thinking “why bother”… but if you’re doing a physical mailshot, which seems preferable to you… target everyone in all areas, or target only areas where people have clicked through to sites/products related to your sales pitch?

Customer data aggregation, profiling, segmentation, and use for targeted marketing over all channels is something I, and the very large company I work for, do for household names you all use.

So in your professional opinion, why was the mailshot addressed to "the occupier"?

All of the stuff you describe I can readily believe, but it will - or at least, should - be tied to a GUID or other unique identifier rather than "John Smith." It's reasonable to expect that "the system" knows that phone 89100364547526282014 drops into John Lewis electricals every Tuesday lunchtime and starts pushing adverts for toasters onto electronic billboards when it sees them.

Tying that back to an actual physical home address though, let alone the private conversation the OP believes they had, is surely a massive security breach.

The “conversion” is a complete red herring. No one is scraping possible product interest from messenger chat content. The network of who is in contact with who is the only useful data there, at the very most.

And an “address” won’t/can’t be identified without breaking rules. There is no way only the OP would have received that mailshot, neighbours would have received it as well.