[Closed] Contract to Perm

Expect a pay cut.

Yep, after a lot of lobbying to get it done. All wins for me in the situation, proper sick pay and generous holiday, pension, proper training budget, company credit card, more stability and a lot less hassle. It also meant I could push for better development opportunities and look at internal vacancies.

If you want to stay there why not - obviously your certainty is only your notice period but it's better than a few minutes.

Yep, I did it last September. I handed my notice in six weeks ago, I'm going back to the contract market.

Perm is a very different mindset to Contract, you don't have the level of professional separation that contracting gives you. Be really sure you like the company, it's working practices and it's culture before you make the jump.

My current client want me to move from contract to perm in more or less the same role. Has anyone done this, as its usually the other way around?

I assume they want to do this for some beneficial reason to them?

What are the benefits/costs to you?

Are they open to negotiation?

Do you want a "normal" job?

If you do this and dont like it in 6 months can you go back to how you are now?

It's quite common in my experience. My last 3 contacts have wanted me to go perm. I said no.

I would rather have the extra cash to invest and also am content at my level of responsibility/have no ambition in corporate direction.

Like others say though if the company is good and fits with your goals (assume you have some) then go for it.

A big driver is I work around 90% from home and won't change. But the pay cut could be significant.

I don't understand why anyone would do it?

I've been contacting now for 4 years, and wish I'd done it sooner.

Fair enough no sick/ holiday pay, but getting a decent day rate, kinda takes the sting off it.

What Mrchrist and teeto said.

Make your own decisions on holiday, pension and personal development.

You’d have to drag me kicking and screaming into a perm role.

I don’t understand why anyone would do it?

If you are in demand in a market then it's probably good times where you are in charge, if not then you are fighting for stuff.

Decent companies can offer people lots for getting onboard, I'm off to a decent conference in a couple of weeks all paid for, got training coming up, more offered and a proper cost of living increase without asking for it and prospects.

In other roles the stuff I said above like progression in the company, if you are young then actual proper development and help with a career. I get that some people don't like being "managed" but there are plenty of plus sides to it all.

Fair enough no sick/ holiday pay,

I never took this attitude as a contractor; I did get sick pay and holiday pay, I got it as an employee of my Ltd Co.

Obviously, my Ltd Co didn't bill on days I didn't work, but that was factored in to my billing assumptions for the year. I think you need to keep a distinction between '"the company" and 'me as an employee of that company", especially in these days of tightening IR35-esque considerations.

Is that anything like a licence to kill?

If you want (hopefully) the stability, are being offered a good deal, and can't see much benefit sticking with the contracting (finances, flexibility, distance from the politics), and most importantly you really like the client, the environment and people you'll be working with, then sure it's worth considering.

Have had many clients though get to the point of offering permie. Several reasons on their part.

First is perceived money saving, but if the package ends up being same value as take-home contracting, then I question it's any cheaper to them and more likely a lot more expensive once all the overheads are factored in. However it's usually cheaper because they are offering a deal that is far less than what you'd get contracting.

Second is daft stuff like the "two year rule". There is no two year rule. Have argued this one a few times.

Third is they don't want contractors on the books for too long. I've run into the situation where someone in the company just doesn't like contractors, but also there's a desire to keep someone valuable on the permie list rather than in theory risk losing them contracting (they can just as easily lose them as permie though, and harder to recruit a replacement).

In the end, yet to find one that I'd really like to switch with. More so as in my world (software dev), permie jobs are not stable and promises about looking after people, loyalty etc, go out the window when finances change or there's a take over.

p.s. If you're a Ltd Company, then need to consider whether to wind up the company and how best to extract any money in it.

Went permie start of August after contracting since the start of the year - took voluntary redundancy from previous job last Christmas.

Basically meant we could move house since getting a mortgage was easy. And because I've got a bit more job security, can move somewhere we want to live (Peebles). Yes, it's a paycut after contracting, but they matched my previous salary, so I'm more than happy.

If you're contracting through an agency (and not directly with the company that want to make you permanent), make sure there isn't a restrictive clause in your contract that stops you going to work directly for the company after the contract is over.

I'd be looking closely at the potential ir35 reg changes when making your decision. I appreciate that noone yet knows the impact on contingent workers on the private sector, but I expect that the lines between employee and contractor to become more blurred, and your working conditions will face more scrutiny when determining your employment status in the eyes of the hmrc. If this happens I expect the contractual terms in your contract, right of substitution etc may not afford you the same tax breaks as it does now.

With that in mind, unless the company you are on site with bump up your rate to offset the shortfall then contracting may become a less attractive option in future.

For reference I am the policy owner for contingent worker hiring at a very large organisation, and can tell you from conversations with internal legal and tax teams, plus the likes of EY and hmrc, that these changes may have significant impacts on the contractor market in the UK. Expect further details from the government in the next budget.

Been contracting/self employed (own research as well as for clients) ever since my PhD. Went FT in Feb and hate it. Really cannot get my head into the mind set, I find "employees" lazy (uninspired?) or overburdened with paperwork, PDPs, training, team meetings etc etc and something I could have done in a week takes me a month or more to get through the system and I cringe at the cost of stuff. Yes I got paid double but the end result was cheaper.

During the summer I had an injury which meant for the first time ever I had to take time off work, I felt guilty about getting paid to be home sick and kept trying to get back to work. Also feels very odd to be able to take a day off and not think about how much it costs me and to get home from work and be able to switch off.

Looking to get back into my own research work by Christmas and hand in my notice.

I did it nearly 5 years ago. I was a developer, took the perm role to lead a team, which was a step up for me.

Since then I’ve transferred into a BA/TA role which is good for me.

Was a pay cut 5 years ago, but an extra 13% free money in the pension makes a difference.

The main thing is it’s an enjoyable place to work.

The main thing is it’s an enjoyable place to work.

To me, this is pretty much the most important thing, I couldn't work somewhere (perm or contract) if I didn't actual enjoy being there, it's more than half your waking life you're spending at work.

tpbiker makes some good points, but the best contractors will have more than one client on the go / have additional revenue streams than a single engagement. Also, going inside IR35 as a day rater is still much more lucrative than going fixed term or permanent.

If you are in demand in a market then it’s probably good times where you are in charge

You need to make sure that you stay in demand by taking control of your own personal development and bringing fresh ideas and thinking to your role. The biggest single difference I see between permies and decent contractors is the willingness to continually improve. Even reading a relevant book seems an alien concept to many of of my permie colleagues. The perceived job security seems to stifle that urgency around staying relevant.

read through the contract tonight (what great to spend a Friday night) and it seems there is restriction clause that basically forbids me from working for the client. Yipee.

Caher - that’s just a marker to initiate a negotiation between your agent and the client.

 The biggest single difference I see between permies and decent contractors is the willingness to continually improve. Even reading a relevant book seems an alien concept to many of of my permie colleagues. The perceived job security seems to stifle that urgency around staying relevant.

I could say the same about decent employees and average contractors 😉

During the summer I had an injury which meant for the first time ever I had to take time off work, I felt guilty about getting paid to be home sick and kept trying to get back to work. Also feels very odd to be able to take a day off and not think about how much it costs me and to get home from work and be able to switch off.

Looking to get back into my own research work by Christmas and hand in my notice.

Just move to the US for that feeling while FT!!

Try relaxing into it and you will see that it's part of the deal and one of those things that we should aspire to as a society that we invest in people and look after them, it's an investment to employ you and companies want to make sure you are happy, fit and well.

Re the restrictive clause - talk to the company taking you on... In my case, because they put so much business the agency's way, there was no issue... If they want to hire you, they'll talk to the agency and take care of it.

Ha. I thought this was about working in Perm, mid-west Russia!

I've recently gone from six years of contracting to permanent. IR35 was used as leverage by the board.

I managed to combine it with a promotion so after taking into account 33 days paid holiday, not paying for an accountant and various insurances, I'm only slightly down cash-wise. Plus there's the security aspect.

Obviously everybody's circumstances will differ so can't give an objective opinion on the change generally.