Continuous Stop Sta...
 

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Continuous Stop Start or just Stop until huge gap in long queues/jams?

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With all these dreadful snarl ups on port access routes and huge waiting times the issue of the best way to deal with them ..(if you are unlucky enough to get caught up in one ) has got me thinking .
Whenever I have found myself in such a situation it seems that the least tiring way is not to move until crawling/stop start traffic has got to almost out of view ..unless there's a junction ahead where cars are feeding in .
Having an older car which doesn't cut out and restart automatically means there's dilemma between switching off or idling ... With fuel costs and pollution this is obviously worrying if the jam/queue is hours long .
In the past I've found that waiting until there's a huge gap before advancing often leads to abuse or cars behind impatiently blasting their horns . If there are 2 lanes obviously it doesn't work unless the other lane does the same.
Can anyone suggest why this technique is not encouraged and generally only done by larger lorries apart from the reasons I have mentioned ?
Any reasons not to do it if thick skinned ! I feel I might be missing something obvious .
Any other suggestions , techniques, advice , views would be appreciated as well as experiences .
Cheers
Bill


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 11:48 am
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It increases the total length of the queue, which could have knock on effects if it grows to span junctions behind you.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 11:52 am
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I'm guessing Lorry drivers might actually cooperate, all in this together, plus I understand they may be incentivised to use least fuel possible, (speculating) time started / moving might affect how much time they log on the black box. etc.

Trying this in a car is relying on The General Public to be, erm, how to put this, "not stupid".


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 11:52 am
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What you need to do is MTFU and get out and give your car a push rather than leaving it idling. Might as well get some decent strength training in if you’re gonna be stuck for a while.

Maybe don’t try this up hill.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 11:57 am
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People don't want to be in the queue. Ever. People like to feel like they are making progress and want to get to the end of the queue, so seeing the person in front just sitting threre eating a sandwich or watching you tube with an empty road in front is annoying.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 12:01 pm
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It increases the total length of the queue, which could have knock on effects if it grows to span junctions behind you

This, especially if the queues are really epic. There could be all sorts happening far out of sight behind you've no idea about. I wouldn't have any qualms about letting a 50m or so gap open up but for the cars ahead to be "almost out of view" seems a bit much.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 12:02 pm
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I tend to leave abit of a gap then roll along at tickover in first. Often you can do that for a fair distance


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 12:28 pm
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I wouldn’t have any qualms about letting a 50m or so gap open up but for the cars ahead to be “almost out of view” seems a bit much.

This.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 1:02 pm
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Fluid dynamics. Trundling slowly can actually fix a stop/start traffic jam (which is how managed motorways are at least supposed to work).

The problem with that approach is you'll invariably get some roaster behind leaning on the horn if you're not a cheese slice away from the stopped car in front.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 1:09 pm
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I wouldn’t have any qualms about letting a 50m or so gap open up but for the cars ahead to be “almost out of view” seems a bit much.

I do that.
Stop, wait for a decent gap then move along and stop again. Inevitably someone will just pull in front if two lanes, but I don't leave massive gaps because of junctions behind as someone above said.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 1:15 pm
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could have knock on effects if it grows to Spain

FTFY


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 1:47 pm
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I tend to leave abit of a gap then roll along at tickover in first.

This also my approach, slow-moving traffic has to be safer than constant stop start.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 1:55 pm
 a11y
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a cheese slice away

Think I've just found a more appropriate metaphor to use around the kids instead of the usual 'bawhair' measurement unit!


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 1:55 pm
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When I can see traffic slowing I will firstly, try to slow down with just the gearbox to avoid flashing the brake lights.
If that wont work, I'll try to time my slowing down so the person in front gets moving again.

Once we've come to a stop, which is the OPs issue, I'll try to use a mix of 1st gear, idle speed, no clutch; and stationary.

Something that annoys me is when there is a clear obstruction - such as some traffic lights ahead that we can all see. we all come to a stop. my stop-start car turns itself off. Then people realise that they can move 6 inches closer to the red light so they pull forward. Once everyone does this it makes a sizable gap that sometimes I feel I have to restart the engine to fill.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 2:33 pm
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Once again some great answers and nice to have different ideas and the reasons why.
Love cougar's "some roaster leaning on the horn .. cheese slice "
Made me laugh and I rarely do that .
Funny how some things make you laugh when the majority don't .. I'm going to start a thread on that !
I'm sure that many of us will be remembering this thread at some stage soon and it will help us to have pondered the subject previously.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 2:47 pm
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What TJ and others say. I'll leave a big gap to try and buffer against the stop starts. If I can trickle along at 4mph and let the gap in front take up the slack that is my preferred method. But on the idle/turn off option, I'll switch off if I think I'll be sitting more than a minute or so, the only arguement to leave it running is if you start to get worried that your battery is not charging enough whilst you move forward.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 2:55 pm
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Have to say, stop start, automatic gearbox and adaptive cruise control is something I don't think I could live without now. It's bliss in these sort of queues, all I have to do is tap the cruise lever or the accelerator and the car will start moving again, and of course it'll stop with the traffic of its own accord.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 3:00 pm
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tjagain
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I tend to leave abit of a gap then roll along at tickover in first. Often you can do that for a fair distance

👆wot he said


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 3:10 pm
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When the road is about at capacity it's sometimes possible to change a stop/start with standing waves into a steady trundle, by driving smoothly with a bit of anticipation. Regardless of that, leaving big gaps in front is wrong because it may make the queue extend backwards past a junction that some drivers want to leave at, causing them an entirely unnecessary delay.

See also: merging in turn when a motorway loses a lane. The correct thing to do is neither to leave the lane empty for a mile or two leading up to the restriction, nor to race up the empty lane and cut in abruptly at the front of the queue, but to match speed with the lanes and merge in turn as you get to the restriction. When this happens, it greatly improves traffic flow. Unfortunately it requires competence and cooperation which is vanishingly rare.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 4:04 pm
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Bawhair is universally recognised as a measurement of very little distance...cheese slices all vary in thickness depending on make, so a bit more vague...🤣


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 4:11 pm
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I have overtaken a car that was sitting and leaving a big gap. He didn't leave any gaps after that and had an angry look on his face.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 4:14 pm
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When the road is about at capacity it’s sometimes possible to change a stop/start with standing waves

A30 eastbound on saturday afternoon. must have been a pulse of traffic leaving cornwall as you could see a pulse of 5-10miles congestion on google maps moving along in front of us. 60 - zero - 60 - zero on repeat from okehampton to exeter.

unfortunately, I only needed to do to the okehampton to exeter bit.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 4:16 pm
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I have overtaken a car that was sitting and leaving a big gap. He didn’t leave any gaps after that and had an angry look on his face.

If that wasn't on your fixie I'll be disappointed. #usualsuspects


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 4:17 pm
 joat
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On the lorry front; it will eke out a bit of extra time before the driver needs a break (stopped counts as 'other work' rather than driving time). Tachos work by the minute but not parts of, so if they can stretch the stop to a minute it can add up especially in queues like the ones to Dover.
I'm with the try and keep it rolling in tickover camp, it's more efficient. It stops people thinking you're looking at your phone too.


 
Posted : 25/07/2022 10:33 pm
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Now this is where the EV has its advantages.
Slip it into assisted driving mode, feet off the pedals, hand off the wheel and let it do its ting. And no pollution , no overheating etc.
Makes traffic jams almost relaxing 😉


 
Posted : 26/07/2022 12:03 am
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When I can see traffic slowing I will firstly, try to slow down with just the gearbox to avoid flashing the brake lights.

Fine in a manual. Mine’s a semi-auto. It has stop-start, but for whatever reason that’s stopped working. It’s got to go for a service soon, so I’ll get it sorted then.

However, just having an auto ‘box in long stop-start queues makes an enormous difference, compared to having a manual.


 
Posted : 26/07/2022 12:28 am
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but to match speed with the lanes and merge

+1 Like a zipper!


 
Posted : 26/07/2022 12:30 am
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Fine in a manual. Mine’s a semi-auto. It has stop-start, but for whatever reason that’s stopped working. It’s got to go for a service soon, so I’ll get it sorted then

Mine too - battery on its way out. £300 odd to replace, I'll use the key instead. Does that bother the starter motor any more than stop start?


 
Posted : 26/07/2022 7:15 am
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When I can see traffic slowing I will firstly, try to slow down with just the gearbox to avoid flashing the brake lights.

Which is why manual cars get rear-ended more than automatics...

I've pretty much only driven auto's for +20 years, and before that swapped between manual/auto during the 80's & 90's depending on which I could get as a company car - in a queue I just let the car do it's thing and unless the queue is actually a road block, will not move from D.


 
Posted : 26/07/2022 7:43 am
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Which is why manual cars get rear-ended more than automatics.

I'll bet it's not* but I look forward to being corrected by the statistics data on this one.

Foot off the gas in an auto no more brings the brake lights on than it does in a manual.

*The usa has stats that show the polar opposite to the UK so that would suggest that it's got little to do with using 1st gear to slow down and it's just a numbers game...... I've also never understood why people use the expensive and time consuming to replace clutch to slow down like they are ari Vatinan trying to shift the weight for the corner when the brake pads are a consumable designed for this purpose and are cheap/easy to replace.....


 
Posted : 26/07/2022 7:53 am
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but you're not "using the clutch" to slow down, you're using the engine compression - the clutch isn't slipping, it's engaged so there's no relative movement and therefore no wear.

It's just better driving - if you're using the brakes you've acquired more kinetic than necessary and therefore used more fuel than you need to.


 
Posted : 26/07/2022 11:28 am
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Brakes to slow - gears to go!


 
Posted : 26/07/2022 12:07 pm
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Which is why manual cars get rear-ended more than automatics…

Citation needed. It wouldn’t be because there are just more manual than auto cars on the road, by any chance…

My auto stop-start seems to have suddenly woken up! Only noticed it a couple of days ago, and it appears to be working fine now! I’ll get it checked during the service anyway. I doubt it’s anything to do with the battery, the car isn’t that old.
And £300 for a battery? 😕 There’s got to be more to it than that, a decent battery might be around £100 or so, depending on the source, but £300? Hmmmm…


 
Posted : 28/07/2022 10:59 pm
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It only takes a bit of drop out and it doesn't have the juice to pass the s/s threshold, is how the main dealer advised me. If you also have the lights and air con and...... all drawing current then the computer will disable it, I assume if battery is <Sean Kelly> 'in a bit of difficulty' </Sean Kelly> you don't want it then being called on regularly to restart the car.

ECP have them from £194-540 and then discounts applied, but that's for the battery alone and to fit it without losing the codings and whatever is why the main dealer quote was £300-ish. People smarter than me are going to tell me it's easy to do which it probably is but only if you know.

https://batteryworld.varta-automotive.com/en-be/start-stop-does-not-work


 
Posted : 29/07/2022 9:49 am
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Tyres and tarmac. Always ensure I can see both and then just trundle along in first without the accelerator when a decent gap opens up.


 
Posted : 29/07/2022 9:00 pm
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My old Lada Niva was good for this. Let a gap build up then stick it in low 1st. Take your foot off the throttle and it trickled along at about 0.01mph. Slow enough that in a /rutted green lane I could get out, walk back to speak to someone, have slash and get back in. We tow started another Niva with a knackered clutch making the most of this. Driver got out, shuffled backwards whilst unhooking the tow rope, got in and drove away.


 
Posted : 30/07/2022 1:22 pm

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