[Closed] Contador, the new anti christ!

the whole thing is a farce, Contador is the best tour rider regardless, i also suspect he is being tested alot so i would have thought something would have shown up if he was doing something now.

But the whole thing should have been sorted before now, he stands to be stripped of last years tour, this years giro, and whatever he does this year. No one will remember who wins this years tour if Contador wins and looses the title. No way to win the tour, ask Pereiro.

Totally agree the UCI are so crap. It should have been sorted for the sport let alone Contador. If he and (particularly) Armstrong go down then all the sponsors will walk away. Shame it won't happen to footy in the same way.

I don't think it can put you in a good frame of mind if there is the threat of a ban hanging over you.
It will be interesting to see how he holds up.
He has to give it 100% even though it might not be worth anything.
He is probably the most tested rider now, the result this year will be 100% clean for him.
There is going to be day to day abuse from the press and the [i]fans[/i].

If he is 100% clean this year it will be interesting to see what he's made of.
Top sledging though by the spectator!

Is contadors bike different to his team mates to show the drug cheat easier?

I have a strange feeling of deja vu

i also suspect he is being tested alot so i would have thought something would have shown up if he was doing something now.

David Millar was tested a lot as World TT champion too

he sure as hell won't make the same mistake as last year - whether that was blood doping from a contaminated stash (my belief) or eating meat whose provenance can't be demonstrated and contaminants GUARANTEED not to be present

A spectator at the tour has just been told off by police for waving a juicy steak around on a BBQ fork, me thinks Contador is now the pantomime villain this tour!

Very funny, but already done on the Giro with a fan running alongside Contador on a climb holding out a long stick, with a steak on the end of a rope, right in front of him. Couldn't find the video unfortunately. I would like to see a "herd" in fancy dress running alongside him though.

Yeah it's a joke, glad he's getting booed. Don't want to see him hurt but I wish someone would chuck a bucket of cow's blood or something over him...

Do you honestly think that he's (if guilty) the only doped rider? That the Schlecks are whiter than white? It's a case of the top tour rider having doubt cast over his "cleanness" and then absolute condemnation from all sides. Yes probably contaminated blood doping but honestly, read "Bad Blood" then tell me about the cleanness of the sport. They probably don't use on the actual tour, anymore, but in order to be able to operate at that level needs something.

Anti-doping doctor Don Catlin considered this explanation plausible.[89] Contador stated that he is the victim,[90][91] and he can "hold his head high" and that he thinks he should not be punished.[92] Several people related to the sport said that there is little benefit from using the drug, especially in the amounts that were discovered.[93][94][95]
The UCI issued a statement reporting that the concentration was 50 picograms per millilitre, and that this was 400 times below the minimum standards of detection capability required by WADA, and that further scientific investigation would be required. Contador was provisionally suspended from competition, although this had no short-term effect as he had already finished his racing programme for the 2010 season.[96][97][98] Contador had been informed of the results over a month earlier, on August 24.[99] Later the amount discovered was clarified as 40 times below the minimum standards, rather than the 400 times originally reported by the UCI. Contador's scientific adviser claimed that he would have needed 180 times the amount detected to gain any benefit in his performance.[100]

Whole sorry affair sullies the sport. Whatever your view, I assum ewe all would prefer it resolved within a year and before the grand tours.

It's a case of the top tour rider having doubt cast over his "cleanness" and then absolute condemnation from all sides

[i]I assum ewe all would prefer it resolved[/i]

I thought it was beef, not lamb? Anyway, to assume makes an ass out of ewe and meeehh.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was physically attacked out on the road. The French are pretty passionate when if comes to cycling, and there's a helluva lot of bad blood (pardon the pun) towards ****ador, who they feel has devalued this year's and last year's race.

In fact, I'd be surprised if he makes his way thought the entire Tour unscathed.

what 100th said.

The daily Mail naivety of those thinking one guy is bad and everyone else whiter than white never fails to have me shaking my head.

LIFE IS NOT SO SIMPLE

onehundredthidiot - all irrelevant. Strict liability should apply - drugs in your system = ban. Thats what the rules say.

No one is saying no one else cheats. What they are saying is that when someone is caught cheating [ or with illegal doping agents in their blood if you prefer] then the rules need to be applied.
those who "defend" Contador by saying others cheat - what would you suggest we ido about the positive result?

Suspect that most riders who do get caught by testing these days have just been a little careless with their doping regime. Maybe not following their doctors advice to the letter, or a bit of contamination of equipment. Suspect this is what happened to poor Bertie.

Are the UCI deserving of the stick they are getting? Surely it's the Spanish federation that deserves a kicking?

They have been taking EPO for years it just takes time for these tests to develop, so as previously stated he "may be the most tested" doesn't mean he's clean! Look at Armstrong!

Anti-doping doctor Don Catlin considered this explanation plausible.[89] Contador stated that he is the victim,[90][91] and he can "hold his head high" and that he thinks he should not be punished.[92] Several people related to the sport said that there is little benefit from using the drug, especially in the amounts that were discovered.[93][94][95]

Baxter got caught out in the winter Olympics as it was in an OTC cold remedy. Haga was cought out in World Superbikes by an OTC weight loss product and lost a championship.

It's not obvious how a beta-antagonist would help a skinny endurance athlete.

so as previously stated he "may be the most tested" doesn't mean he's clean! Look at Armstrong

Did I miss something, has Armstrong admitted/been caught at something?

I think what happened to Contador is he was blood doping IE getting transfusions of his own stored blood and also using Clembuterol out of competition. The new test was much more sensitive than he realised and thus detected previously undetectable traces of Clembuterol in his blood after he received the transfusion on a rest day.

Just a theory / opinion

Cle[s]m[/s]nbuterol out of competition

Catlin is even less credible than the riders he tests. He went as far as to claim he didn't even know who Armstrong[url= http://voices.washingtonpost.com/early-lead/2011/01/chemist_don_catlin_fires_back.html ]Catlin didn't know who Armstrong was[/url] was in the 90s. We are talking about the rider that had already won the world road race championship and was plastered al over the American press for his cycling and triathlon exploits. Anyone on here over 40 and vaguely interested in cycling that had never heard of Armstrong by 1996?

I think what happened to Contador is he was blood doping IE getting transfusions of his own stored blood and also using Clembuterol out of competition. The new test was much more sensitive than he realised and thus detected previously undetectable traces of Clembuterol in his blood after he received the transfusion on a rest day.

Just a theory / opinion

Seems more plausible than a dodgy steak.

I was under the impression that Clenbuterol was assimilated very quickly and left no trace in the system after 48hrs (correct me if I'm wrong).

If that was the case, the beef producer must have fed the drug to the cow less than 48hrs before it was slaughtered.

Why would a farmer, who is obviously trying to maximise his profit, give expensive drugs to an animal and then slaughter it before the drugs had a chance to increase its yield?

I'm curious as to what you think he might have been using Clen for in training?

The consensus is that it was to help weight loss.

The consensus is that it was to help weight loss.

All of the serious GC contenders are underweight during the tour - that's why so many get ill during it - the immune system is supressed.

For that reason, they deliberately don't stay down at weight for the whole season. Most riders put on a few lbs (or if it's fat Jan, a few stone 🙂 ) during winter and then lose it during training camps - which is exactly when anecdotal evidence suggests blood it taken for doping reasons.

Clenbuterol is also as good as steroids for putting on lean muscle without the androgenic effects which make it a favourite with female athletes. Long term it damages the heart so go easy on it.

Edit: why do you think farmers use it? Cattle with lots of lean muscle and low fat fetch good prices at auction.

The consensus is that it was to help weight loss.

One of the reasons but it's also a broncho-dilator and it causes an increase in aerobic capacity, oxygen transportation and lean muscle.

TJ's theory above about him using it in the off season and subsequent blood transfusion is the most likely one.

All of the serious GC contenders are underweight during the tour - that's why so many get ill during it - the immune system is supressed.

For that reason, they deliberately don't stay down at weight for the whole season. Most riders put on a few lbs (or if it's fat Jan, a few stone ) during winter and then lose it during training camps - which is exactly when anecdotal evidence suggests blood it taken for doping reasons.

[img] [/img]

Contador's only defence is that he ingested the banned substance accidentally. That others dope, or that the level was below the level of detection in many laboratories is irrelevant.

Proof is required, not supposition.

Junkyard - Member
No one is saying no one else cheats. What they are saying is that when someone is caught cheating [ or with illegal doping agents in their blood if you prefer] then the rules need to be applied.
those who "defend" Contador by saying others cheat - what would you suggest we ido about the positive result?

I know it's not that simple, it's just castigating only those that get caught seems a little simple-minded.

Recent comments on Millar etc. FWIW I'd be surprised if they weren't all doping, and it's those that get caught that are unlucky.

But then am a stupid liberal that has some leanings towards the "once someone's been punished let them move on" camp.

Condador hasn't been punished yet...

When can we start doing all the "Glen" jokes? That thread was much funnier 🙂

aye all I forget who but someone asserts that until the times start dropping in the tour he will consider they are still doping
It is interesting I am asure they all take supplements just legal ones.

Either way it sullies the Tour how many champions recently have /will be stripped of their title
Real man too subtle 😉

oh and Darcy you can do it glen you like
IGMC and which thread missed it

all the greats doped. Mercx, Coppi, Hinault. They all did it. take grand tours for what they are. great occasions, incredible athletes, high drama, and don't get too upset when one of the riders tests positive.

Its a lot more fun this way!!!

I forget who but someone asserts that until the times start dropping in the tour he will consider they are still doping

Times have dropped since the late 90s, early 2000s

Here's the chap with the steak on a stick BTW.

As has been said, the counter to the defence of "it was in such small quantities he wouldn't have gotten any benefit so why do it knowingly" is he took blood during the off/early season and had used a much higher dose of clenbuterol a few days before (for the lean cutting effect) but it he'd misjudged it so a trace was still in his blood. On the TdF rest day (when it showed up), he'd reinjected the stored blood (the perfect time to do it) and that's why it was detected.

Ofc he's not the only one doping in this year's race but you can only deal with those you catch and in this case it's not even the usual contaminated sample defence being used so simply put he shouldn't be racing. Imagine if Schlek is actually clean, not only has he been denied the honour of last year's win but the same could happen again.

And does anyone really believe he gets a steak delivered especially from Spain and they can't even remember the source?!

So all the booing then, because of chaingate or beef gate? Or both? He got lots of boos and jeers last year before the doping problems came to light.

Its the doping this time around, think he only got booed for the chain thing on the podium that day didn't he?

Contador is the most visible symbol for the utter balls up he, his Lawyers, the Spanish Federation, UCI, Wada & CAS have managed to make of this whole situation.

(imho) That's why he's getting booed, and he and they deserve it.

pretty sure the Spanish Beef producers association were pretty p1ssed by his defence, as the use of substances such as this are illegal throughout the EU in beef production. Maybe Contador didnt want to name Fuentes Farm as being a source of steroid-loaded beef...

And what happened to the plasticizer element of the accusation-again found in minute quantities but if corroborated would have supported the transfusion theory?

I actually came down on his side in chaingate, Schlek didnt just suffer a mechanical he made a schoolboy error whilst making an attack, and contador counter-attacked. Any time he did gain only offset schlek benefiting from cancellara killing the wet stage when schlek crashed and contador would have put a chunk of time into him.

Samurai, thanks for digging that out, it makes me chuckle and a very surreal couple of hundred meters on the road.

What I object to about this whole affair is the duplicity - any other rider would be unceremoniously booted out.
The Spanish authorities and WADA dragged their heels, and now the UCI are in cahoots. It makes a mockery of the sport, though I can't see how they'd have the nerve to strip him after the Tour. No one is suggesting it's a clean sport - the point is to clean it up, regardless of how big a star the offender is , and do it consistently. That's the only way to get the message across.

He may have aright to be there, but his presence isn't good for the sport, or him IMO. At least with him being so far down on time already he'll be attacking more this time (as per the Giro).

UCI need to sort things out. Pretty much end of story.

Contador, who i think is a superb athlete and tactician (with team), had compounds found in plastics when the positive was flagged indicating that there is the possibility that he was blood doping.

But he's been flagged as a drug cheat before (2006 from memory)if it is going to be zero tolerance why is he racing, or indeed a large number of the GC contenders.

And what happened to the plasticizer element of the accusation-again found in minute quantities but if corroborated would have supported the transfusion theory?

The test for plasticizers isn't verified so it's not official so it can't be used to convict him. Same way as there wasn't a test for EPO in the early 90's and even when it came along it took a while for it to be verified. That's why everyone is so keen to test Armstrong's samples again.

Crell - both WADA and UCI have appeals in against the Spanish federations decision to not ban him - awaiting and the court of arbitration or wahtever it is called at the moment and delayed and delayed by contadors team of lawyers so he can ride in this tour.

UCI and WADA are not at fault here IMO

That's why everyone is so keen to test Armstrong's samples again.

They have been are are positive for EPO

Don't forget Armstrong was one of the first athletes to fail a cortisone test when it was developped in 99. The UCI accepted and ante-dated medical certificate againt their own rules at the time but it still stands as one of the first cortisone positives in cycling and means that Armstrong is lying through his teeth every tiem he comes out with the never-tested-positive line.

what tj said both times and crazy legs re plasticisers

Worst thing is it make such a mockery of the sport and the new breed of [ hopefully] clean competitors

[img] [/img]

Can't wait for the proper hills, it's going to be epic when [b]ANGRY ALBERTO[/b] GETS GOING.

What's all this nonsense about riders climbing slower these days? No-one has ever climbed as fast as Contador up the Verbier climb with 1860m/h

Munqe-chick - Member
Schlek didnt just suffer a mechanical he made a schoolboy error whilst making an attack,

So you have guaranteed ways of avoinding chain-dropping 🙄

TandemJeremy - Member
They have been are are positive for EPO

All your base are belong to us?

😎

So you have guaranteed ways of avoinding chain-dropping

Dont try to sprint in the small chain ring/small rear cog combo as the lack of tension in the chain can cause it to skip or drop?

So in short, yes. Seem to remember Sean Kelly in the studio being totally scathing, saying he wouldnt expect a club level racer to make such a mistake.

Dont try to sprint in the small chain ring/small rear cog combo as the lack of tension in the chain can cause it to skip or drop?

he didn't do that! he tried to change to the big blade under load.

Edukator, I didn't say climbing, i said average speed, over the whole three weeks, has dropped quite a bit in the last few years.

You should be able to sprint in a 42-12 or whatever IMO.

Poor etiquette IMO, but I guess youngsters have less and less manners these days 😉

*pops in for a quick look round* Nothing new to see here. *leaves*

warton, the point more experienced road racers than I made was that he should already have been in the big ring when he decided to launch the attack. He didnt, he attacked in the small ring, ran out of gears and had to try shift to the big ring mid "sprint". Small/small gives you least chain tension and the most chance of something going wrong.

Ryder? Hesjdal said:

"if you start a fight and drop your sword, you are dead"

UCI need to sort things out. Pretty much end of story.

Contador, who i think is a superb athlete and tactician (with team), had compounds found in plastics when the positive was flagged indicating that there is the possibility that he was blood doping.

But he's been flagged as a drug cheat before (2006 from memory)if it is going to be zero tolerance why is he racing, or indeed a large number of the GC contenders.

there is strict liability tho and there is no acceptable level for clenbuterol. So he should be serving a ban

he didn't do that! he tried to change to the big blade under load.

He's riding a knife?