Consumer rights advice help please.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product-aTTEK2g0YuEy

Yes,entitled to full refund.
It's not a discussion point; tell retailer you're exercising your statutory legal rights.
Items are not as described; in this case, different to the ones you saw in store and the website pic you posted.
If it was me I would inspect the one delivered today for any labels with date of manufacture as that may indicate whether or not it's new.

Did you buy new sofas which were the same model as in the shop, or did you buy those specific 'display model' ones?

I read it as the display ones (which were allegedly well used) meant the OP bought new versions of the same thinking they would continue to look as new for a long time.

If they can't find the other one, and you bought them as a pair, then should be a fairly easy refund.

Trouble is that who knows what happened to them in the past four or five months between you looking at them in the showroom and them reaching you? If I'm buying an ex-display sofa, I wouldn't take a punt that it would still be OK some months later, I'd want it delivered straight away.

TBH it doesn't look that bad for something that has been bounced on by the general public in a showroom for the past two years, and the store may argue that it is of reasonable quality for something described (and priced) as such.

So you'd better hope the other one doesn't turn up. Get straight onto the store, ask them if they have it, and when they say they haven't, sigh, and arrange a date for the one you have to be collected for a refund.

read it as the display ones (which were allegedly well used) meant the OP bought new versions of the same thinking they would continue to look as new for a long time.

Oh, that would be different, it doesn't look like a new sofa to me.

If you bought them at a retailer then yes, reject as not as described and request a full refund.
Do it soon so they can't say you did it nor make deduction for wear.
Expect "them" to be difficult, largely because it's a pita for the folks you'll deal with and they've rarely any better idea of your rights than you do.
You shouldn't need to go nuclear or really fight for it just don't expect all smiles and sorted immediately. (you might get that though some places are excellent at this sort of thing, many are rubbish)

Sorry I haven't explained it properly.

We really liked the model we sat on in the showroom, it was apparently around 18 months old but to us still felt new and looked good too. There was no baggy or worn material.

AS such we decided to order new ones in a different colour to match our lounge.

Unfortunately the one that turned up yesterday is the correct model but looks worn out already, you can see all the material is rippled and saggy and it some places you can actually pinch the loose material.

I sent them an email last night to say that under the consumer rights act we want to reject them and have a full refund.

May be sitting on the garden furniture for xmas at this rate !!

Other than the colour, is it the same material as the one in the shop and online? This can have an effect as some material just dont sit the same as others

Unfortunately the one that turned up yesterday is the correct model but looks worn out already, you can see all the material is rippled and saggy and it some places you can actually pinch the loose material.

I sent them an email last night to say that under the consumer rights act we want to reject them and have a full refund.

Is above the reason you state for rejection? The retailer is going to be able to refute worn out as it’s going to be down to the nature of the fabric. They will likely suggest they replace the cushions or add additional stuffing.

They are going to resist a refund if it’s a custom order so unless this is a buyer remorse situation you may be better to work with the retailer to resolve rather than going directly to quoting CRA as first communication.

There's no buyers remorse to be fair.

I just don't want to be spending that amount of money on something that should have been perfect from the get go and needs repairs before its even been sat on.

Other than the colour, is it the same material as the one in the shop and online? This can have an effect as some material just dont sit the same as others

The material we have gone for is the slightly more expensive fabric. At no point did the salesman say it would look different.

There was a different model of sofa in the showroom in the material we have chose and it looks perfect.

More expensive materials do tend to be denser leading to creasing and that material also has a heavy nap which you can see from the photos (some look grey others blue). Do have a look at the sales T&C’s as it’s likely to state material is natural and therefore some variation in … etc. etc.

The nap will wear in with use to give a more uniform finish and cushions will expand into the shape of the cushions. Work with the Retailer as they’ll likely repeat above. If the material on the frame is fine fit wise I’d be after replacement cushions with additional padding. Good luck.

If it helps, we had a similar-ish situation. Mrs A politely asked for a refund, and collection of sofa asap, and didn't get into discussion or debate. They quite quickly offered a discount of 10%, she declined politely, 50% declined, so they offered a full refund and asked if we wouldn't mind keeping the sofa as it would a nuisance for them. She politely accepted. I think politeness, firmness and no discussion helped in our case. Good luck.

Oh dear I m a big natuzzi fan so I would reject, unless it's cracking deal. Some nice Roche bobois sofas on gum tree if that's your thing.

Or Tetrad factory store, post stock on fb.

tony - your comments don't change the fact that the item delivered was not as described and, as such, gives the customer the legal right to a full refund.
It also imposes a legal obligation on the retailer to make a full refund.
It really is that straightforward.
Any attempt by the retailer to advance the argument/defence you raised should be immediately dismissed as irrelevant.

There was a different model of sofa in the showroom in the material we have chose and it looks perfect.

Then Frank is correct. "As described" includes demo models in a showroom. Full refund (or a replacement if you want).

Honestly, that looks like a manufacturing defect. Is the other side fine?

Just had a call from the store.

Apparently Natuzzi head office have said that they have to send out a technician to inspect the sofa before they can move forward??

Pretty sure thats not correct and when I said that I had the legal right to a full refund the chap started getting a bit upset and said he would get the store manager to call me tomorrow?

Have I done the right thing? Do i have to let them look at it before refunding? I'm just worried it will turn into a battle when they try and say there's nothing wrong with it.

Pretty sure thats not correct and when I said that I had the legal right to a full refund the chap started getting a bit upset and said he would get the store manager to call me tomorrow?

Have I done the right thing? Do i have to let them look at it before refunding? I’m just worried it will turn into a battle when they try and say there’s nothing wrong with it.

Don't worry about it. You're entirely correct, you've a right to reject. They do however have reasonable grounds to (at their expense) make sure it is faulty/not as described etc before following that through if you're rejecting it is on the ground of fault etc.

Follow the process, stick by your guns, get your refund.

As above be polite, firm, to the point but reasonable.

I’m just worried it will turn into a battle when they try and say there’s nothing wrong with it.

I think thats highly likely whatever you do.  Check the "which" link above for process.

At some point they have to look at it to check your claim.  Its cheaper for them to send someone to your house than to collect the sofa to inspect it but I think that would be you doing them a favour rather than their right to inspect it in your house

If they regard the sofa as custom made (because you specified the fabric), then the rights are slightly different. They only have to refund if actually faulty…

https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

You have to offer a refund for certain items only if they’re faulty, such as:
* personalised items and custom-made items, for example curtains

What "Natuzzi head office have said" is neither here nor there. Your contract is with the store, the store's contract is with Natuzzi. The store refunds you, the supplier refunds the store. If Natuzzi want to send out a technician, that's the store's problem not yours.

When you talk to the manager tomorrow I would have two three questions:

1) It's not unreasonable for the store to want to verify whether the goods are not as described as you claim, so if they want a technician to attend then I'd be asking when they expect this to happen.

2) Can they confirm whether they are refusing to honour your statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015?

3) Where the hell is the other one? It's a sofa, not an SD card. Are you going to be standing up for another four months whilst they build a replacement?

Wait for store manager to call and then repeat what you've already said.
If it was me, I would ask store manager which section of the CRA they're relying on to justify their proposed approach.
You could re-visit the store to take photos of the display models; use them, the website photos and those you shared in your post to prove that on a compare'n'contrast basis what they delivered is not as described.
Then there's the missing sofa - you ordered two, they delivered one and don't know where the other is.
Without checking the regs I would say that gives you a further right to reject.
As above - calm, firm, polite; do not concede anything or back down in any way.

Paid by credit card?

If they regard the sofa as custom made (because you specified the fabric), then the rights are slightly different.

Whilst this is true for your right to reject under CCR, "as described" in CRA trumps this. If the OP had a custom sofa made up in blue fabric and it turned up orange then it is not as described no matter how bespoke it may be.

You've probably got a 'satisfactory quality' argument there too. Would a reasonable person consider that to be of satisfactory quality?

I don't think that is "not as described"

the argument is is it of "satisfactory quality"

Deposit paid by credit card thankfully. So got a little back up there.

Thanks for all the advice everyone, its really appreciated.

Quick edit there Cougs to add comment about the missing sofa...

We had a had a few friends who said they had sofas which varied from what they had sat on in the showroom when delivered - similar issues of slack fabric, one with cusions/seat pads which seemed undersized by a few cm. A few even went back to showroom to compare - and indeed they even more felt theirs was not of the same quality.

We recently bought new sofa's - and bought cancelled order sofas from Ercol outlet - they were great on the phone, good images of the *actual* sofa, and they were exactly as described. Plus half price and delivered in a weeek. It took a few months of faffing and waiting for the right model and colour to come up - but worth it.

All the above (except missing sofa) not withstanding are you sure the "new" sofa doesn't just need using to "plump out"?

Those creases/folds look like they are going to get filled as the foam bits press out through actual use?
Never had a "quality" sofa made to last but I'd assume they would build in some initial play ???

One other thing.

Do NOT accept them having a go at repairing / changing out a cushion etc.

As soon as there's been a repair / fix accepted, then your consumer rights to a subsequent refund disappear.

Not true robertajob

Check the which site for details as per the link above

tony – your comments don’t change the fact that the item delivered was not as described and, as such, gives the customer the legal right to a full refund.

The OP says that in his opinion the sofa is defective not that it’s not as described. The Retailer want to examine the sofa to form an opinion if defective. Given it’s likely to be made to order this isn’t cut and dried for a refund.

Just to update,

I had a call from the manager at the store we bought the sofas from and he again told me that head office want to send a technician to look at the sofa.

They have also found the other sofa too and tried to arrange delivery but we stood our ground and reinforced that we would like to exercise our rights to a refund due to the quality not being the same.

I also had to say that my contract is with the store and not Natuzzi UK and that it was up to them to deal with Natuzzi UK.

I think I may have to get the credit card company involved as they are not acknowledging my request for a refund and instead keep pushing for an engineers visit

That left cushion cover looks badly made - is the right hand one the same?
Is the fabric on the front of the frame loose also? If so I'd want them to go back, they could make a new cushion cover easily enough.

I presume that sofa is larger than the one from the web site as there's a seam.
Did you order the same cushion pads as the one in the store? - different pads can look different (i.e. foam pads will be firmer than a feather/foam mix and will hold shape better but be not as soft.)

I haven't searched the which site for info on this but it does not seem unreasonable to me that they want to see it first.  People do try it on in this sort of situation I'm sure

How about you suggest a compromise that you will send the shop a set of pictures of the issues?

Is the base cushion removable? Can you take that to the store for "inspection"?

Don't you have to allow the retailer a chance to correct the problem before the CC company get involved ?

I know the CC company insisted a mechanic was given a chance to rectify a fault after fitting a clutch to a mates car before they would step in.

Sorry, just catching up.

Cushions aren't removable so cant take it off.

We have sent pics to the shop and the salesman agreed it didn't look great.

No different padding options were available. The one one in the shop was meant to be 18 months old and still looks tight with no baggy material.

The sofa in the picture of the good one is actually the same size as the one we ordered, both larges I believe. That picture is what we thought we were getting, is exactly the same as the shop model.

You're going to need to let them to inspect the sofa. No retailer is going to give you a refund on a custom order just because you've told them it's faulty. Whether the person inspecting your sofa on behalf of the store is employed by the store, by the manufacturer or an independent furniture assessor contracted by the store is irrelevant.

By refusing to allow them to inspect you've just been added to the "difficult customer pile" so can now expect very little proactive help from the store. If I were you I'd get straight back on the phone to the store and arrange for your sofa to be inspected.

Just to update:

Engineer came to inspect the sofa and did as the shop had suggested and tried to dress the cushions, as expected this just pushed all the loose material to the sides and looked rubbish.

Long and short of it is that he said there is too much material and has been manufactured wrong. He then said he would feed his report into the shop.

This was Wednesday last week and I've heard nothing since. I've even emailed twice to try and arrange the collection as its now taking up room in our lounge and we are now having to sit on our garden furniture.

Any ideas what my next step is? Do I visit store or .....

Still having no joy with this and I'm not sure which way to go now.

All emails are going unanswered, I visited the store we bought it from and the store manager told me it was with head office and that I would get an answer by Friday. This never happened.

I phoned the head office on Friday morning and asked to speak with the person dealing with it to be told he was out all day and that they would get him to call me. I explained that we just want to get our money back and the sofa collected.

I received a random phone call from someone claiming to be from Natuzzi regional office on Friday afternoon and he said they could offer a repair or replacement. When I said that I had sent in a letter over a week ago rejecting the sofa and that we wanted our money back he said he didn't know anything about that, promised to call me back and hung up.

Its now been over two weeks since we rejected the sofa and asked for our money back and we are no further forward.

My wife is upset, she thinks Christmas is ruined as we were meant to be hosting her family but now cant as have no where for them to sit.

I’d send one last letter detailing the fact you’ve rejected it and expect it resolved within a week. Further, if they don’t, I’d advise I’d be instructing a solicitor and taking they’d be paying for that too. Run it past a solicitor first obviously! Last time
I had to do it they were totally onside and it only cost £50 for the letter. Full refund including solicitor were back within a week.

Good luck!

I'd say it's time to start spamming both store and manufacturer's social media.
Sad to say this is often the only way to get quick attention from recalcitrant businesses.

My wife is upset, she thinks Christmas is ruined

Only thing I can suggest is calling local paper and getting a story run with a picture of you and your wife both with compo face on with the headline "Christmas is ruined"

🙂

I’d send one last letter detailing the fact you’ve rejected it and expect it resolved within a week

Given the current date I'd say there's zero chance I'd that.
I'd be surprised if they take the sofa back when the cushions just need replacing/adjusting

How about trying to get the store to swap them with a display model and a partial refund? They might play ball as it means they don't take such a loss.

Have you read your CC terms and conditions and notified them you are in a dispute with the retailer?

Deposit paid by credit card thankfully. So got a little back up there.

Time to speak to your credit card provider and see what they think.

Wow, lots to unpick here but:

Only thing I can suggest is calling local paper and getting a story run with a picture of you and your wife both with compo face on with the headline “Christmas is ruined”

We were looking forward to hosting this year, there was a chance that I might not have been here if things didn't go to plan during my heart surgery. Thankfully it did and I'm here to appreciate that hence hosting the on laws for a change.
One has a dodgy back and the other a dodgy hip. cant expect them to sit on the floor or bean bags all day.

I’d be surprised if they take the sofa back when the cushions just need replacing/adjusting

Engineer has visited and said nothing wrong with the cushions but the actual material is too loose and baggy and some of the actual issues have been stitched in so will always be there. He said that bad that he wouldn't want to touch it.

How about trying to get the store to swap them with a display model and a partial refund? They might play ball as it means they don’t take such a loss

Did consider this but the store display model is the wrong colour.

 

I also vote for Christmas sadface. Local rags lap that shit up.

This could be you by the end of the week:

https://metro.co.uk/2022/12/14/wirral-family-fear-eating-dinner-off-floor-after-dfs-lost-sofa-17935819/

Why can't you just sit on the saggy sofa until the situation is resolved?

Credit card company sounds like the easiest first approach from the options outlined above.

And finally, without wishing to appear to be a dick about such things, a bloke who comes to inspect poorly constructed soft furnishings is unlikely to be an 'Engineer'.

Alright….. compo face crisis’ averted. We are now going to the outlaws for dinner.

Now, what do I do about the sofa. Store saying head office issue. Head office won’t answer or return calls or emails.

Should I be allowed to have a copy of the report carried out on the sofa ?

Is it time for a section 75 to be raised ?

Have you pestered them on social media, normally seems to get a response.

have you raised issue with credit card company yet??

Why can’t you just sit on the saggy sofa until the situation is resolved?

Even if you have to throw a duvet cover or a throw on it... why can't you just do that ? They know it's coming back, it's not a debate...

Hire/borrow a van and take the sofa back to the store for a refund. Do this during a busy time of day and be awkward (but not aggressive) in the store. Put the sofa in a place where they need to move it; let them move it. They will want rid of you and likely, give you a refund. Worst case scenario; leave the sofa with them and speak to your credit card company.

Do you have a copy of the technician's report? If not, insist on one; does it confirm the technician's comments to you when he inspected.
Face to face with store manager - this time, be forceful; ask which clauses(s) of the Consumer Rights Act he's relying to to deny your legally enforceable rights.
Remind him your contract is with the store and any legal action to enforce your rights will be taken against the store and they will be getting the legal bill in addition to the full refund costs.
See post ^^^ from tartanscarf.

Small claims court?

Family fear eating Christmas dinner ‘off the floor’ after DFS ‘lost sofa’

Looks like they ate the sofa by mistake... 🤪

Oh, and just get your CC to do a charge back as the goods are faulty. The sofa firm will be round soon enough when they haven't been paid.

Yeah, just Section 75 them. Both the store and head office are refusing or not responding to your repeated comms, despite there being a clear fault with the product.

I doubt they'll pick it up before Christmas anyhow, so you can happily infuse it with with mince pie farts as a farewell present for the retailer.

In the interim I'd use it, if the supplier doesn't want to collect then that's their problem. Where would the family sit if they did uplift it?

Now, what do I do about the sofa. Store saying head office issue. Head office won’t answer or return calls or emails.

You bought it from the store not from head office. If it's a "head office issue" then that's fine, but that's their problem not yours. The store should be ringing head office on your behalf.

Also, what Martin said.

Also, what Martin said.

Oi! I think you'll find it was what Boblo said and Martin copied me. Tsssk.. 🤪

Like others have said, it’s time for CC charge back. Fortunately I’ve only had to resort to it once but it proved an easy and speedy solution. You need to keep a record of all correspondence and timings etc. Also worth writing to the store advising you have made a claim against your cc ( they will know their money is going back to you) and give them a set time to collect the sofa or you will dispose of it. At two weeks of trying hard for a resolution you have been quite fair. Obs don’t accept delivery of the second one.

Oi! I think you’ll find it was what Boblo said and Martin copied me. Tsssk.. 🤪

I may have posted something similar yesterday evening... 🤪

I may have posted something similar yesterday evening

In that case, you're forgiven. And I apologise - maybe sincerely... 🙃

You might find this useful - as a guide and/or use in discussion with card company
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/credit-borrowing-money/goods-services-bought-credit
The 'Putting things right section'may help to get you some compensation over and above a full refund.

Suggest you also refer to Money Saving Expert website for further comments and guidance; they may have some template letters you could use with/without modifications.

The Nightmare Before Creasemas

That ^^^ is today's winner!

The Nightmare Before Creasemas

I thought that was his Speedy Gonzales impression... 😊

The Nightmare Before Creasemas

Fantastic !!! Love this.

Hi all, further update:

Had an email from a place called "designersofas.com" which is apparently head office:

Dear Mr Hetherington,

Your details and concerns have been passed to me as per our company’s escalation protocol.

I am surprised that we have considered the furniture in need of replacement. The pictures clearly show the furniture is acting within the manufacturers specification and is well within industry tolerance.

As an offer has already been made to replace the furniture, as a gesture of goodwill and on a without prejudice basis, I will continue to allow this to take place.

Should you wish to reselect to another model that would better meet your expectation, I would take this into consideration.

Should either of these options not be acceptable I will close this matter as a refund is out of the question.

Please come back to me if you wish to visit the showroom and I will ask you to be met by a regional manager who can assist you further.

Your Sincerely,

Gary

Designer Sofas

Tilling Road

Brent Cross

Now I'm not sure which way to go now. I have the following points:

This company is not mentioned on any of the paperwork I have. The only place mentioned is Natuzzi Wednesbury which is the shop we bought from
I've not seen any of the supposed manufacturer tolerances he mentions and nor where they mentioned to me at point of sale.
If the sofa is within tolerance then why are they offering to replace it?
We had an engineer visit at their request and he told us it wasn't good enough quality and the material was too baggy.

This is the showroom model which is supposedly over 18 months old. you can all the cushions still look tight with no baggy material. More importantly you can see the clear separation at the middle of the two seat cushions.

[url= https://i.postimg.cc/Hk8pJQnT/grey-sofa.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/Hk8pJQnT/grey-sofa.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

This is what was delivered to us: How can they say its right??

[url= https://i.postimg.cc/zX6N1Vj6/Imagesofa1.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/zX6N1Vj6/Imagesofa1.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

What do I do now!!

You have your answer. Credit Card chargeback. They are describing the item as fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality, it clearly isn't.

Sounds like he hopes you will go away. S75 costs you nothing. You have exhausted other options short of court action.

Money back now.

We had no end of trouble from a big store, three separate sofa's were all rejected over approx 4 months. Got our money back and went elsewhere.

Subject access request for the report if you do not have a copy of it.

Instigate cc charge back.

No need to continue to deal with them.

Hi all,

This is potentially looking like a no go from a section 75 aspect judging by the phone conversation I had with them earlier.

The guy on the phone didn't sound to promising and said they cant refund for quality issues as its our interpretation of quality against the shop.

Where do I go from here??

You furnish the cc company with a copy of the engineers report that confirms they are not of suitable quality.

You furnish the cc company with a copy of the engineers report that confirms they are not of suitable quality.

Hi Captmorgan, thanks for the advice.

I submitted a subject access request to the store/head office asking for a copy of the engineers report which they have failed to give me.

I also contacted the chap that came to inspect the sofa and he said he cant help me, so I suspect he was favouring the store.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/series/bachelor-and-brignall-consumer-champions

It's amazing what a bit of attention from a national paper will do.

Also, spam their social media to ****.

Did they ever deliver the second sofa?

Can you just turn up at their shop with the unwanted sofa, drop it in the doorway and cause havoc until they refund you.

I submitted a subject access request to the store/head office asking for a copy of the engineers report which they have failed to give me.

I also contacted the chap that came to inspect the sofa and he said he cant help me, so I suspect he was favouring the store.

Don't take the word of the store who don't want to refund or share with you. They've a vested interest to stop you.

Just call your cc company and start a Section75, stating the supplier is being difficult.