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Theres just a mild whiff of racism in the whole ancient aliens thing isnt there
Indeed, Angkor Watt gets the same sort of treatment, You can point out to people that most of it was built contemporaneously to Early medieval castles in places like Wales and France, and no -one thinks those are either supposedly built by or are landing site for aliens, but for some folks the lure of the Von Daniken is too strong. That man has an awful lot to answer for.
It's no accident that conspiracy theories and "easyliving" go hand in hand.
America is the home of Conspiracy because it's the home of easy living, ie its population has more time to come up with stupid stuff in an attempt to add some form of interest and meaning to their lives!
Back in the day, you spent 18 hours a day foraging for nuts and trying not to get chomped on by an angry Tiger or Wolf, and the other 6 hours you spent asleep. Today, your food comes in quick and easy to eat packets, your house provides everything you need at a push of a button, and your job is increasingly automated and mindless. No suprise then that idle minds have time to come up with this rubbish to fill its voids!
People now get into this stuff because it gives them something to do. As religion falls by the wayside, alternative beliefs take its place, and people love to think they know something others don't. You can't debunk a conspiracy theorist because they are not listening and because they themselves cannot allow themselves to be debunked, because then what would they fill their days with? Add in the ability of modern global social media to add a commercial aspect, ie to monitise through advertising etc and its clear to see why today Conspiracy Theories are so popular.
America is the home of Conspiracy because it’s the home of easy living,
It really isn't!
BTW: the one thing i say to these misguideds is "ok, lets say you are right and Man didn't walk on the moon/elvis isn't dead/the earth is flat" (*delete as appropriate) what are YOU going to do about it?
The painful answer is nothing, nothing what so ever because tomorrow the sun will come up, you'll still go to work in your dead end job, your "friends" will still not ask you to join them in the pub for a pint, your ex wife will remain firmly ex, and your pathetic, inconsiquential existance on this planet of 8 Billion equally un-unique people (or lizards if you prefer) will simply be one day longer.
But why would you allow yourself to get so worked up?
S1 are a touch young for quantum mechanics. Fries their mind when I explain that they don't exist.
Here’s a good Scientific American 30 minute discussion or a 20 minute read on conspiracy theories with Michael Marshall of the Good Thinkers Society, it’s rather sad and pathetic (although very telling) that the “protocols of the elders of Zion” gets a mention from the conspiracy freaks.
Flat Earthers : What they believe and why, with Michael Marshall
Behind the curve is a documentary well worth a watch for an insight into some of the different types of flat earthers.
All sentient creatures are intrigued by anomalies.
So, to a greater or lesser degree, we’re fascinated by conspiracy theories.
Saying that, i love it when people apply science to the conspiracy theories, if only for the science lesson. Very edifying.
Though, there’s something deeper going on with conspiracy theories.
On an intuitive level, their adherents might be on to something profound, but they’re clinging to fairly superficial and rudimentary theories.
For example, I’d guess that the flat-earthers, although wrong, may subconsciously suspect that reality is some kind of simulation.
We can’t scientifically prove/ disprove that yet.
No sh*t😜
I don't believe in conspiracies. People just aren't that organised or agreeable.
I think Steve has a point, the whole thing about light simultaneously being a wave and a particle is perfect Orwellian doublethink.
I gave up watching Behind the Curve as I couldn't stand weaponised stupidity. It was like that Jam sketch at the impound lot, just longer and much less funny.
don't you know that the bonkers conspiracies like flat earth and Finland not being real are just started to take away focus on the ones that are actually real .
a conspiracy conspiracy. i like it...
a conspiracy conspiracy.
That's what they want you to think
Conspiracy theories that are actually true...
Here’s Thompson’s first story, published Monday:
"
At an invitation-only conference in August at a secret location southeast of Phoenix, a group of election deniers unspooled a new conspiracy theory about the 2020 presidential outcome.
Using threadbare evidence, or none at all, the group suggested that a small American election software company, Konnech, had secret ties to the Chinese Communist Party and had given the Chinese government backdoor access to personal data about two million poll workers in the United States, according to online accounts from several people at the conference."
One day later, the Los Angles County DA announced the arrest of Konnech’s CEO.
Kanye needs help. He was such a talented and smart guy, it’s depressing to see how much of a mess he’s becoming
The 'talented and smart' things are surely pretty subjective. What he is, is a person with some pretty abhorrent views. Whilst he may indeed suffer from mental health issues, this does not excuse such views imo. Plenty of people suffering with Bipolar disorder and other conditions, who aren't anti-Semitic misogynists. He's rich enough to get help. Maybe he doesn't feel he needs it. But ultimately, the power to change is in his hands, and he's not doing anything to change. 'Silencing' him on social media is a good step. Starve him of the oxygen of publicity.
*I notice Adidas seem to have amended their Yeezy product pages both here and in the USA; page now limited to simply displaying a range of trainers. There is now no mention of Kayne West at all. Yesterday, the USA Adidas site had more promotional content. The UK site was limited to one page of a small range of trainers.
That chart on page one…
Ted Cruz is the zodiac killer😂😂😂😂
That one I can get behind..
Theres just a mild whiff of racism in the whole ancient aliens thing isnt there
Indeed, Angkor Watt gets the same sort of treatment, You can point out to people that most of it was built contemporaneously to Early medieval castles in places like Wales and France, and no -one thinks those are either supposedly built by or are landing site for aliens,
Of course the real reason these mega structures exist in countries like Egypt, Cambodia, Peru and so on is because they are too big for us to have dragged them back to the British Museum. 🙂
Conspiracy theories that are actually true…
No idea about that particular case, but some are true of course. If you've never heard of it, google "mk ultra" for instance.
But the danger here is extrapolating "see, we told you so!" into being 'proof' that all the others have equal merit. "If they're lying about that, what else are they lying about?" Everything? Nothing? Most likely, somewhere in between. If all you have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail.
Absolutely, which is why that case is so frustrating as it give the Q nutjobs all the confirmation bias they need to carry on down the rabbit hole.
google “mk ultra”
No thanks, I assume it's about roundabouts
If you draw straight lines between any three roundabouts in Milton keens you’ll always get a perfect triangle
Turns out Chemtrails are a thing!
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/earth-system-science/aerosols
Not sure about the mind control element though! 🙂
If the earth is flat, then where's the edge? Also, ships sail north and then come south to use the curvature of the earth to shorten the distance. How would this work if the earth was flat? So many questions!! 😀
So many questions!!
There are endless YouTube videos from dudes living in double-wides in the Panhandle who can tell you why the earth is flat and they have the very very complex math to "prove it" Some-one on here spent some time baiting them online, but I think started to loose the will to live. The problem with flat earth is that lots of folks think it's just funny and a bit of daftness, when there's research to show that hooking people on FE is a entry point for what turns (quite quickly) into some very dark far-right beliefs.
Some-one on here spent some time baiting them online, but I think started to loose the will to live.
Thats the problem - if you engage with them you're being baited, its not the other way round. You're trying to persuade someone of any given truth, but out of principle they have no interest in truth, what they prefer is their better story - the more they get challenged the more opportunity it gives them to embellish that story.
The problem with flat earth is that lots of folks think it’s just funny and a bit of daftness, when there’s research to show that hooking people on FE is a entry point for what turns (quite quickly) into some very dark far-right beliefs.
All thats happening is they are advertising their appetite for being duped - you can't engage with these people and hope to convince them of the of the flaws in their theories with facts or evidence or persuasion. But at the drop of a hat you can sell them another load of bollocks, and some supplements.
https://bldgblog.com/2021/01/of-alpha-males-and-algorithms/
What’s interesting to me about this comment is that self-described “alpha males” have come to overlap almost perfectly with the most gullible people on the internet. From Jade Helm and Birtherism to “spirit cooking” and Pizzagate—and, now, QAnon—it is, again and again, the men quickest to oil themselves with a sheen of masculinity who fall for the dumbest, most obviously false stories they can find. I do not mean men, in general, or that masculinity somehow lends itself to being hoaxed, but that there is a kind of security vulnerability inherent to self-professed alpha males: beings so tough, they don’t need to ask questions. This makes them easy marks.
...............
Time and again, it was the self-professed alpha males—the online persuaders and the Crossfit gurus and the retired cops and a 6’6″ Olympian and a disgraced former general who admitted lying to the FBI and even a Zoolander-adjacent pillow salesman advocating martial law—who fell for every single word of it. Every single stupid theory, swallowed and swallowed again by gullible alpha males—men with apparently no ability to protect themselves, their friends, or their own children from obvious hoaxes and stupidity.
Earth definitely round. Or at least curved. I took these two photos of the west coast of Anglesey from the same point, but one is from the beach and one is from the campsite about 20m higher up. I've seen it, with my own eyes!
[img] 
[/img]
one is from the beach and one is from the campsite about 20m higher up
You're just a very slow climber and the tide went out 🙂
But its also of course why ships have crows nest - so that you could see further
Earth definitely round. Or at least curved. I took these two photos of the west coast of Anglesey from the same point, but one is from the beach and one is from the campsite about 20m higher up. I’ve seen it, with my own eyes!
You saw more because you climbed higher. Everybody knows this. Want to see the lie of the land when you're lost? Climb a tree. You can't see the roof of a building that you are standing next to unless you climb higher than that roof. You're also claiming that the sea is curved, so defeating your own theory - my bathwater is flat, the sea can't form itself into a curve.
(Just to be very clear, I'm not being serious!)
Ships have Crow’s nests so Molgrips can see further, all because he’s a slow climber?
Makes you think.
Ships have Crow’s nests so Molgrips can see further, all because he’s a slow climber?
and therefore the moon landings were faked, the covid vaccine allowed Bill Gates to control you using 5G, and the Illuminati are using chemtrails to stop us finding out about the secret process to make unlimited energy from water. It's all obvious now.
onewheelgood
I’m afraid it’s really hard to disagree with this. All models are wrong, some are useful.
Most are useful but that's not the point... the point and the lying is not referring to them as models.
By continually calling models ‘lies’ and by encouraging your children to think of them as lies you are setting them up for a pretty uncomfortable life. I can tell you this from experience, because I’ve suffered a lot myself from my inability to accept things that were ‘wrong’.
This is the point, the model is a model - It can be mainly correct or correct in certain circumstances or conditions BUT it's a model - the model isn't lying, even when its wrong ... the lying is referring to a model you know to be an approximation in very specific conditions as a fact .... hence why it needs to be taught as a model and examined as a model not as fact.
e.g. "Draw a helium atom using the Bohr electron model" or if you want extra then "Draw a helium atom" and "name the model you used to draw this"
I'm drawing a distinction here between maths/science and in general.
Telling your teacher their hair looks good or you think their subject is the best subject when it doesn't/isn't is completely different to writing an answer in a science exam you know to be incorrect and are not given an opportunity to say why. [there is certainly room for diplomacy - just not in science]
It is absolutely fundamental to science that we report our observations as accurately as we can including the limitations and context.
Molgrips
You’re the one trying to persuade us that science is deliberately lying! You and the conspiracy nutjobs. Are you sure that’s what you want?
That is [u]most definitely[/u] not what I'm saying.
What I am saying is the teaching and examination of it is lying when it fails to give the limits of a statement or in this case state very specifically a simplified model is a simplified model.
(Which is where the conspiracy nuts pick-up from who are the ones claiming science is lying)
If "they" wish to TEACH and EXAMINE a simplified model with 3 states of matter and incompressible liquids "they" need to give it a name and continually refer to it as a model EVERY SINGLE TIME (a model we know isn't really true but is good to help develop our wider understanding). Given this was an EDEXCEL paper given from teaching EDEXCEL approved texts then the QUESTION could have been worded for example "According to the simplified EDEXCEL model for states of matter how many does the model acknowledge?"
(It would be nice if we had a single model for this across different examining boards but at least this is a step towards truth and it makes it clear this is only a teaching tool and not meant to represent the truth)
This way :
EVERYONE can answer truthfully and receive a correct mark for writing 3.
It has been drummed into EVERYONE that whatever model is simply a model with limits and only applies within these limits and doesn't reflect reality
We are not asking kids to write 3 in a space where the question is "How many states of matter are there [ ]".
Cougar
I want to know where all these kids are who can comprehend degree-level science in primary school but turn into swivel-eyed conspiracy theorists when they discover in their late teens that things are slightly more complex than they’ve been taught thus far.
That's not really what I'm saying ... and knowing of the existence of plasma (or more exotic states) doesn't mean they understand them at a degree level... but knowing of or denying its existence in another thing. (Especially in 2022 when we have things like t'interweb .. )
Some of the kids will be put off and not follow further science and others won't... the ones who do will then come to understand they were taught a model.. the ones who don't are ripe for the swivel-eyed conspiracy theorists.
To play Devils advocate on this (part 1)
... conspiracy theorist asks a UK educated person "How many states of matter are there?" - anyone answers 3 just gets told to google the question.
Summary of conclusions
a) I was lied to by my science teacher
b) well that's certainly not what google/wikipedia/.... says and over 90% of sources on the internet are "not 3"
c) My science teacher was just simplifying this for me
Anything but a strong C is just an opening.. if you waste your life watching any of these conspiracy theories on video you start to see how the same questions are asked of the schmucks with the aim of convincing them the earth is flat or hollow or lizard people exist etc. If you answer a strong 3 then you''ll just be cancelled off that flat-earth/lizard pyramid/Covid board/group etc.
To play Devils advocate on this part 2...
conspiracy theorist asks a USA educated person "were you told evolution is just a theory that has equal weight to creationism and humans are descended from chimpanzee's"
To play Devils advocate on this part 3...
just follow the "speed of sound" one later
montgomery
I can beat that. I did a geology degree with one of my fellow students being a creationist. The whole foundation of geology: deep time, evolution…he didn’t believe a word of it, just wrote essays on what the lecturers wanted to hear. He was literally living a lie.
Herein is the issue he was living a lie...BUT as an aside/related one of the people on my 1st degree didn't believe in komatiites because he couldn't get past crystal size depending on anything other than rate of cooling.
The point you make is "writing essays on what the lecturers wanted to hear" is "living a lie" - totally agree regardless of if the teachers/lecturers are actually telling the full truth or not.
The point I'm making is the act of writing an answer you know/believe to be incorrect for the sake of getting the correct mark is not science and a lie.
I work with a very highly qualified medical professional who is also a member of a creationist church; he believes this along with fossils seeming to be millions of years old as a test of faith.
Yet will happily slate patients who are anti-science as regards covid vaccinations.
Nowt as strange as folk.
It is disturbing this highly qualified medical professional can even be allowed to practice.... however it also illustrates that they were the victim of a crazy conspiracy theory... be that chicken or egg coming first.
When I lived in Libya non-Arabs had to have a yearly AIDS/HIV test.
The self-professed "medical doctor" one year was cheerfully telling me how she didn't believe in viri or bacteria and it was up to god who got ill and didn't. To this end she didn't see the need for sterilising needles or using swabs.
I probably wouldn’t have concluded that there was a secret government conspiracy to make a generation of liars because some previous teacher had told me it was 330m/s.
Maybe not you but this is a central "proof of flat earth".
Refraction and understanding not only conclusively proves the earth approximates to a sphere but that Ps/Pc shadows show a non-solid layer.
Are you sure this is what you were taught or were you taught that approximates to the speed of a compressional wave of sound in air at approximately 1 atmosphere?
This is the actual point I'm making... I'm pretty sure at no point in secondary school was I Told "the speed of sound is 330ms-1" (or given my age 1100 feet per second) and an exam question would ask not "what is the speed of sound" but "what is an approximate value in metres/second for a compressional sound wave in air at 1 atmosphere"
I'd go further and say if I had asked "what is the speed of sound" to my physics teacher at any point I would have been told that it depends on what medium it is travelling through.
I'd also point out I haven't claimed this is a "secret government conspiracy to make a generation of liars" - that is simply a by-product of modern teaching methods for science.
Certainly we can look at a beneficiary .. so we could take Boris as a microcosm.
At no point do I think Boris cares how (or even if) science is taught in schools but he does realise the electorate have a very high tolerance for lying and exploits that.
HOWEVER He probably does care a LOT that his buddies can have lucrative contracts for providing educational material and exams.. As I started back on page 1, depends what you define "a conspiracy theory" as.
Do I think Boris planned this with some cabal ? Absolutely not...
Do I think Boris knows this affect but doesn't care - probably not, he has a very specific relationship with the truth
Do I think Boris realises people are conditioned to not care about lies... absolutely.
these two photos of the west coast of Anglesey
Firstly: Wales doesn't exist, it was a ruse by the Saxe-coburg gothas to keep the wingnut lizard occupied.
Secondly: the land in the picture looks different because of the angle in relation to the sea that the pictures are taken from. And it's called... Clearly something deeply fishy going on.
Thirdly, just whilst I'm at it, there's no letter "I" in "gaslight", though that last one is barely a secret.
Molgrips
Earth definitely round. Or at least curved. I took these two photos of the west coast of Anglesey from the same point, but one is from the beach and one is from the campsite about 20m higher up. I’ve seen it, with my own eyes!
I'd recommend either Beyond the Curve (Jam-bo) mentioned on Netflix or set up a throwaway account on a VM and behind a VPN and go and find out how these flat earthers actually think and recruit.
What you are seeing (and photographing) is what the global round earth conspiracy has taught you to see in their echo chambers until you get kicked out for being a government paid schill.
Try doing it and post the photo's and you'll be told your a liar, that it's refraction or 101 different excuses because you were lied to....
What actually can you measure via your a-hole other than temperature, that the anal probe would er probe ?
FWIW, one of my lecturers at med school used to say that, once you knew what you were looking for, sticking your finger up a patient's bum could be one of the most quickly-informative things you could do. He claimed you could in a couple of seconds estimate their pulse, their blood pressure, the state of their digestive system, their gut health, their hydration level and their overall pain level (as evinced by muscle tension). It was just that most patients didn't like you doing it to them!
...not sure what that's got to do with aliens though. Doubt they'd care much about that sort of stuff. But the number of UFO sightings has dramatically dropped since people have reliable cameras readily to hand - as ever, there's an XKCD about it:
[img] 
[/img]
Well according to the BBC my post code area does not exist for weather reports and hasn't for the last 48 hours+. Not just on the app either, but on the web page too. Every other version of the NE numerical post code system has weather but not us. Make of that what you will, but given there has been sunshine for 2 days on the trot I'm moderately concerned we are being subjected to some form of experiment and are about to be wiped from the face of the Earth...if the Earth can have a face given it's flat 🤷♂️
That is most definitely not what I’m saying.
It might not be what you WANT to be saying, but it's what you are actually saying. You're very concerned with how the teachers words will be taken; you also need to pay attention to how your own words will be taken.
my bathwater is flat
It's actually not.
Mines got bubbles in
Mines got bubbles in
Mine too , I suppose the great unanswered question here is - why do farts smell worse in a bath
stevextc
I’m afraid it
Here he is, tinfoil hats at the ready!
Firstly: Wales doesn’t exist, it was a ruse by the Saxe-coburg gothas to keep the wingnut lizard occupied.
Oh, getting political are we? Cofiwch Dryweryn!!
Can I no longer trust a spirit level then? 🤔🧪
The point I’m making is the act of writing an answer you know/believe to be incorrect for the sake of getting the correct mark is not science and a lie.
No, it's just a poor teacher.
If your kid is smart enough to understand what plasma is then he's smart enough to understand being told "look kid, you're absolutely right, but at the level we're learning here it's not relevant yet." If the teacher is just going "no, you're wrong" then it's a failing of that particular teacher (and I too have had this argument with teachers).
What did you tell him about Santa?
What did you tell him about Santa?
That its an anagram of Satan - That St Nicholas and Old Nick are in fact the same guy, which is why they both wear red, are associated with fire (chimneys or hell) and why Santa sacrilegiously parodies Christ by consuming himself as a eucharist by eating kids' cookies and drinking their milk
That St Nicholas and Old Nick are in fact the same guy, which is why they both wear red, are associated with fire (chimneys or hell) and why Santa sacrilegiously parodies Christ by consuming himself as a eucharist by eating kids’ cookies and drinking their milk
That has made me think!
If the teacher is just going “no, you’re wrong” then it’s a failing of that particular teacher
I was a boffiny kid (where did it all go wrong?) at an inner city middle school in a rough area. I had science interests and hobbies, and was quite happy to put teachers (who let's face it were unlikely to be doing experiments and soldering together radios in their spare time) right on a point or two.
Translation: I was a pedantic pain in the arse who got used to being told to shut up. Educationally valuable, to be fair.
No, it’s just a poor teacher.
Or simplistic thinking and easy marking on behalf of the exam boards.
Explaining to kids that neutral solutions have pH 7 seems correct but isn't.
Explaining to a 13yo that pH is a measure of available hydrogen ions and acidity and that neutral is pH 7. Water is pH 7 and neutral (thanks to the balancing hydroxide ions from the equilibrium dissociation of water) but if at higher temperatures the dissociation means more hydrogen ions and so the pH reduces. So pH indicates acid conditions but it's still neutral) but to explain this we need to show how to calculate with a negative log. Quite a lot to do for something that in the grand scheme of things is correct.
It is disturbing this highly qualified medical professional can even be allowed to practice
Why? What does someone's religious beliefs regarding creation vs evolution have to do with whether they are a competent medical professional? As long as those beliefs don't compromise their ability to perform their professional duties then what's the problem? Frankly I'm more disturbed that you think such views are acceptable.
FWIW not religious in the slightest but equally have no time for bigotry.
Explaining to kids that neutral solutions have pH 7 seems correct but isn’t.
I understood this aged 11.
Explaining to a 13yo that pH is a measure of available hydrogen ions and acidity and that neutral is pH 7. Water is pH 7 and neutral (thanks to the balancing hydroxide ions from the equilibrium dissociation of water) but if at higher temperatures the dissociation means more hydrogen ions and so the pH reduces. So pH indicates acid conditions but it’s still neutral) but to explain this we need to show how to calculate with a negative log.
I don't understand this aged 50.
Granted, chemistry is far from a strength of mine, but is it not the case that in teaching anything we need to walk before we can run? There's a gulf between hydroxide ions and what colour litmus paper turns when you dip it in vinegar. I haven't got a clue what an ion is but I know the difference between an acid an an alkali.
Cougar
No, it’s just a poor teacher.
If your kid is smart enough to understand what plasma is then he’s smart enough to understand being told “look kid, you’re absolutely right, but at the level we’re learning here it’s not relevant yet.” If the teacher is just going “no, you’re wrong” then it’s a failing of that particular teacher (and I too have had this argument with teachers).
What did you tell him about Santa?
If your kid is smart enough to understand what plasma is
It's not about understanding what plasma is ..(which is a bit of a nonsense really because the deeper (smaller) you go the less we understand) which is why the answer to "how many states of matter" isn't 4 or 5 if you include Bose-Einstein condensates .. or 12... or ...
Let's take an example (that is fairly representative of the exams my kid gets)
I remember the question and the question was "How many states of matter are there?"
These examples are representative.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zcsdgdm/revision/1
GCSEEdexcel
States of matter
The three states of matter can be represented by the particle model. This model explains the properties of substances in their different states, as well as changes of state.
There are many ways this could be worded that do not state "The three states of matter" ... some are better or worse.
Let's take another bad example
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zqdqgdm/revision/6
Note full copy/paste - bold mine
Six-mark questions
Six-mark questions are extended open response questions. These require longer answers than the structured questions. It is wise to plan your answer rather than rushing straight into it, otherwise you may stray away from the key points.To gain full marks, you need to:
support explanations using scientific knowledge and understanding
use appropriate scientific words and terms
write clearly and link ideas in a logical way
maintain a sustained line of reasoning, rather than getting lost or bogged down
Six-mark questions often use these command words:Describe - you need to give an account but no reason
Explain - you must give reasons or explanations
Devise - you must plan or invent a procedure using your scientific knowledge and understanding
Evaluate - you must review information, including identifying strengths and weaknesses, and make a supported conclusion
Six-mark questions may be synoptic questions. These questions bring together ideas from two or more topics. For example, a question about fertilisers could include ideas about covalent substances, acids and alkalis, chemical calculations, and effects on the environment.The answers shown here give marking points as bullet points. You do not usually need to include all of them to gain six marks, but you do need to write in full sentences, linking them logically and clearly.
These questions have been written by Bitesize consultants as suggestions to the types of questions that may appear in an exam paper.
Sample question 1 - Foundation
Question
Describe the arrangement and movement of particles in each of the three states of matter. Explain what happens to the particles in a liquid during boiling. [6 marks]Hide answer
Your answer should include the following:Particles in solids are close together and regularly arranged.
Particles in solids vibrate about fixed positions.
Particles in liquids are close together and randomly arranged.
Particles in liquids move around each other.
Particles in gases are far apart and randomly arranged.
During boiling, energy is transferred to particles.
Bonds between particles break/are overcome.
then he’s smart enough to understand being told “look kid, you’re absolutely right, but at the level we’re learning here it’s not relevant yet.”
Yes but then he shouldn't be forced to write an answer they know is incorrect.
I'd say he shouldn't be marked down for that but he said he was happy to be marked down but he wasn't happy to lie.
What is maybe more the issue is the question itself is totally unacceptable.
The teacher shouldn't be given (or forced to give?) a question that is fundamentally untrue in the first place.
If the teacher is just going “no, you’re wrong” then it’s a failing of that particular teacher (and I too have had this argument with teachers).
Going back that specific question should NOT be asked in the first place.
Neither the teacher NOR student should have been put into that position.
IMHO the correct response from the teacher to that question is "you’re absolutely right and that question is a poorly worded question" .. it shouldn't really have been on the exam in that format in order to get to this point.
What did you tell him about Santa?
The same as the tooth fairy, Thor, the Christain** god ...
**That's a bit inaccurate... what he actually got TOLD about god/gods was a question which was "if this magically being or beings exist then in what form or forms would they exist in that made them gods ... which comes down I suppose to Santa ..
Santa wasn't actually mentioned at home prior to him going to a Christmas thing when he was in reception and him realising someone was dressed up in a red suit and beard.
As of last night (we were building a partly new PC into a new case and chatting away) and completely independently of this thread his current definition of Gods is that of a gamemaker.. and if an AI creates a virtual world then is that AI the or a god inside that world and does that then pass for silicon based life?
^^^^ All interesting stuff but what does it have to do with people believing conspiracy theories ? ^^^^
The point I was initially trying to make.... just google "how many states of matter are there"
(and chuck in the rest of the inaccurate and bad exam questions...) and then imagine you are on a flat earth/fake moon landing/insert here forum/board/group trying to tell some poorly educated people that "the scientists" all lie and are part of a global conspiracy. Look at this .. what were you taught at school?
squirrelking
Why? What does someone’s religious beliefs regarding creation vs evolution have to do with whether they are a competent medical professional? As long as those beliefs don’t compromise their ability to perform their professional duties then what’s the problem? Frankly I’m more disturbed that you think such views are acceptable.
FWIW not religious in the slightest but equally have no time for bigotry.
In what way does not actually believing in science NOT completely and totally compromise their ability to perform their professional duties???
Just one example ... God created Covid... (there is no evolution) so WHY did this god create it? When did god create it (day 5? so where has it been since)
If this god created it how can we try and avoid it?
When we created a vaccine (or several) why did God then create mutations of this virus? (no evolution)
How can someone that believes a god specifically created this virus and then released mutations when we developed vaccines effectively vaccinate people?
How can someone that believes a god specifically created this virus and then released mutations when we developed vaccines effectively vaccinate people?
Do you think belief in a god changes the effectiveness of the vaccine administered by that person?
Does it matter what someone believes, if they practice evidence-based medicine?
I think a binary belief that "facts" exist, that something is entirely right or entirely wrong, is harmful and naive.
A belief in God and science at the same time is entirely compatible for some people. Perhaps those with a less binary view than your own?
How can someone that believes a god specifically created this virus and then released mutations when we developed vaccines effectively vaccinate people?
Why don't you go and find out. You might learn something about people, which I think you really do need to. As do a lot of people, to be fair, not just you.
God help us.
It’s not about understanding what plasma is ..(which is a bit of a nonsense really because the deeper (smaller) you go the less we understand) which is why the answer to “how many states of matter” isn’t 4 or 5 if you include Bose-Einstein condensates .. or 12… or …
But again: you have to start somewhere. You're surely not advocating teaching Bose-Einstein condensates (whatever the hell they are) to kids who don't yet understand what a liquid is.
Yes but then he shouldn’t be forced to write an answer they know is incorrect.
But it is correct, for most practical purposes. If you're arguing that there's a dozen other possibilities that the vast majority of the populace won't even have heard of then I rather fear that you're being pedantic for the sake of it. If your kid is arguing the same then he either needs to be in a school for the exceptionally gifted or take an autism assessment.
just google “how many states of matter are there”
I did. The first hit suggests that if the question on the test was instead "what are the classical states of matter?" then the problem goes away in its entirety. From Wikipedia: "The three classical states of matter are solid, liquid and gas. In the 20th century, however, increased understanding of the more exotic properties of matter resulted in the identification of many additional states of matter, none of which are observed in normal conditions." The next batch of hits read variously:
People also ask
Are there 22 states of matter?
What are the 7 state of matter?
Are there 15 states of matter?
What are the 11 states of matter?
What are the 19 states of matter?
Are there 50 states of matter?
🤷♂️
50 shades of shite.
Do you think belief in a god changes the effectiveness of the vaccine administered by that person?
Does it matter what someone believes, if they practice evidence-based medicine?
I'm talking specifically here about creationism, not mainstream religion/Christianity but the total rejection of anything beyond a very literal genesis and the flood.
I think that an absolute belief in creationism (not god or gods but creationism - the word was created in 6 days, 6000 years ago and no new species has ever been added after the 6th day) absolutely prevents any evidence based medicine because by definition creationism involves rejecting that evidence.
The same goes for flat-earth pilot's or satellite installers...
I dunno. Loads of us profess to believe stuff and think we believe it without acting as though we do. Human life is valuable and lives have equal value - okay then, why don't I sell my house and give the money to Oxfam/DEC or whoever?
I'm more concerned with how people act in their professional lives than in what they say they believe.
absolutely prevents any evidence based medicine because by definition creationism involves rejecting that evidence.
One of the imams at my local mosque informed me that Muslims believe that the world was created as stated in the Old Testament, ie, 6 days (short weekend) when I specifically asked him the question.
Muslims can be very good at science including medical science. I certainly wouldn't have a problem trusting the judgement of a Muslim doctor, nurse, or pharmacist.
absolutely prevents any evidence based medicine because by definition creationism involves rejecting that evidence.
History shows us that the Muslim world of the 8th-14th was home to some of the most advanced mathematics and science that the known world possessed, translations of those works formed the basis for some maths that's till in use today. Those folks subscribed to a very literal translation of the Koran, which- like the bible as a creation myth of 6 days
I can't believe I'm getting involved here but:
To treat someone, you only have to know what treatment will work. If you understand that, it doesn't matter whether or not you think God created the disease.
The man who came up with Big Bang Theory, Georges Lemaitre, was a theoretical physicist, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics.
He was also a catholic priest, so he definitely believed that God created the Universe.
Stephen Hawking used to regularly attend St Andrew the Great church in Cambridge.
Yeah but are you sure that he wasn't pushed there against his will with his voice output unplugged?
Cougar ...
But again: you have to start somewhere. You’re surely not advocating teaching Bose-Einstein condensates (whatever the hell they are) to kids who don’t yet understand what a liquid is.
I'm talking about acknowledging that Plasma or for that matter Bose-Einstein condensates exist.... and that the answer is >3
Let me jump (and chop your post up a bit) to make that easier to explain...
The first hit suggests that if the question on the test was instead “what are the classical states of matter?” then the problem goes away in its entirety.
Yes... though I'd say that is a kinda minimum bar ... as in "could have tried harder" more than "didn't even try".
Let's imagine an end goal in this is people who don't go on to study science leave school with a knowledge there are 3 everyday states of matter and some more.
People also ask
Are there 22 states of matter?
What are the 7 state of matter?
Are there 15 states of matter?
What are the 11 states of matter?
What are the 19 states of matter?
Are there 50 states of matter?
🤷♂️
As I said a correct answer to "how many states of matter" is >3 ??? or "we don't know" - the latter being a more informative way for someone who doesn't continue to study science to leave school with?
I suppose its a small mercy it didn't get confused with "How many states in the Union" though that last one I suspect it did.
But it is correct, for most practical purposes. If you’re arguing that there’s a dozen other possibilities that the vast majority of the populace won’t even have heard of then I rather fear that you’re being pedantic for the sake of it.
I'm being pedantic because this is SCIENCE ... "for most practical purposes" needs qualifying - it's science not politics. But some examples... for my everyday life the world is flat for all practical purposes. At the very least if they are going to teach something shouldn't it at least not be false without a "for all practical purposes"?
that the vast majority of the populace won’t even have heard of
There is a bit of chicken and egg there.... if they don't hear about them in school science then where would you suggest?
If you’re arguing that there’s a dozen other possibilities
What I'm saying is the question as worded is complete nonsense.
It wouldn't be a lot of work to have phrased it as you suggested ...
If your kid is arguing the same then he either needs to be in a school for the exceptionally gifted or take an autism assessment.
He's 13.... I know you don't have kids but there's nowt strange about a stubborn 13yr old not wanting to write an answer he knows is false.
. he's a bright lad who likes maths and science... and it's 2022 and he has access to that t'interweb jobby so knowing of the existence of this sort of stuff at his age isn't exceptional or rare ... it shouldn't take a special school to just manage not to put him off science.
What would you say if the context was fill in the blank in RE:
"Jesus is the son of G_d" vs
"Christians believe Jesus is the son of G_d"
and some kid who wasn't Christian objected to the former statement and wouldn't fill it out?
History shows us that the Muslim world of the 8th-14th was home to some of the most advanced mathematics and science that the known world possessed, translations of those works formed the basis for some maths that’s till in use today. Those folks subscribed to a very literal translation of the Koran, which- like the bible as a creation myth of 6 days
The Islamic golden age was most definitely not subscribing to a very literal sense of the Koran.
The man who came up with Big Bang Theory, Georges Lemaitre, was a theoretical physicist, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics.
He was also a catholic priest, so he definitely believed that God created the Universe.
Which is completely irrelevant because by definition he isn't a creationist nor is the catholic church creationist.
Creationists believe ....
One of the imams at my local mosque informed me that Muslims believe that the world was created as stated in the Old Testament, ie, 6 days (short weekend) when I specifically asked him the question.
and further that ALL life was created before the end of day 6 ... no new life has evolved since then and are dedicated to dismissing any science that proves otherwise.
Muslims can be very good at science including medical science. I certainly wouldn’t have a problem trusting the judgement of a Muslim doctor, nurse, or pharmacist.
Once again .... what the Imam believes isn't creationism from what you said but even if it was that has the same bearing to that Muslim doctor as Kent Hovind has to Georges Lemaitre.
I’m being pedantic because this is SCIENCE …
...for children. Of all capabilities. This method of teaching clearly hasn't stopped your child to go on to discover that there's more to learn. There's always going to be more to learn. As Plutarch apparently said "Children are not vessels to be filled, they are candles to be lit"
What state of matter is fire?
The Islamic golden age was most definitely not subscribing to a very literal sense of the Koran.
You cannot make absolutist statements like this and expect them to be taken at face value as true (because you cannot know what they all thought about the teaching of the Koran in those terms 1200 years ago..) In fact; you are doing exactly the same thing as the teachers that you're complaining about.
I’m talking about acknowledging that Plasma or for that matter Bose-Einstein condensates exist…. and that the answer is >3
The teacher acknowledging it is simply down to the teacher. Is it realistic to expect a third-year high school teacher to even know about Bose-Einstein condensates? I honestly don't know. From my own experience of high school and of dating more than one highschool teacher over the years, it's a coin-flip as to whether they're subject matter experts or are teaching what they read in the textbook at 11pm the night before.
Yes… though I’d say that is a kinda minimum bar … as in “could have tried harder” more than “didn’t even try”.
It took me a bit of googling to find a loophole. Not as easy when on the spot face-to-face. 🤷♂️ The teacher should have known better of course, they seemingly handled it badly.
As I said a correct answer to “how many states of matter” is >3 ??? or “we don’t know” – the latter being a more informative way for someone who doesn’t continue to study science to leave school with?
By that logic, the answer to absolutely every science question would be "we're not really sure." If that weren't the case then science would stop and a lot of people would be out of work.
I’m being pedantic because this is SCIENCE … “for most practical purposes” needs qualifying – it’s science not politics. But some examples… for my everyday life the world is flat for all practical purposes.
I did qualify it, or rather Wikipedia did. "In the 20th century, however, increased understanding of the more exotic properties of matter resulted in the identification of many additional states of matter, none of which are observed in normal conditions.” There's your qualification, there are three states of matter under normal conditions. Whatever 'abnormal conditions' might look like requires further reading, see me after class.
What would you say if the context was fill in the blank in RE:
“Jesus is the son of G_d” vs
“Christians believe Jesus is the son of G_d”
and some kid who wasn’t Christian objected to the former statement and wouldn’t fill it out?
For the sake of arguing on the Internet I'd say that science doesn't require belief.😁 If the question read "Robin was B__man's ward and protégé" would you have a similar objection?
(I do take your point, I'm just being an arse now.)
…for children. Of all capabilities. This method of teaching clearly hasn’t stopped your child to go on to discover that there’s more to learn. There’s always going to be more to learn.
Also, this.
Your kid is interested in science and that's fantastic. He's likely surrounded by thirty other kids who can't be left alone in case they set fire to the gas taps. Welcome to comprehensive education. If he's an over-achiever then he's going to have to get used to teaching targeted at the majority.
... so, conspiracy theories, then?
Teachers. They lie constantly. All of them. All the time. It's a Govt cover up thing I reckon to confuse everyone. SCIENCE!
Do your own research etc etc.
NickC
You cannot make absolutist statements like this and expect them to be taken at face value as true (because you cannot know what they all thought about the teaching of the Koran in those terms 1200 years ago..) In fact; you are doing exactly the same thing as the teachers that you’re complaining about.
I agree not everyone ... just those who had any useful contribution whatsoever to science and maths.
In terms of those that contributed we can because you can't contribute to science/maths if you refuse to believe the evidence in a fundamentalist way.
In the same way as the age of reason in the west the maths and science was part of a larger cultural movement of art and literature. Art that depicts people and animals (and hence is blasphemous by fundamentalist standards) and literature - literature that included celebration of wine and literature that celebrates the open and enlightened aspects and non dogmatic nature of the great polymaths of the Islamic Golden Age.
Different continent and religion but no different to Galileo or Copernicus or for that matter Darwin.
and hence is blasphemous by fundamentalist standards
Knowledge and science and the pursuit of understanding is a Hadith. You clearly don't know anything about the subject. It's OK to say "I don't know" It's not a character flaw.
I agree not everyone
So you were lying then?
"You take the blue pill... the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill... you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
Let your heart speak, not your head. The heart knows we are being lied to constantly, and that things are hardly ever as they seem, or as the 'authorities' make out.
The head is probably telling you it's all nonsense. But is that because they've got inside your head through decades of relentless propaganda?
The answer is clear. And many a much wiser and more intelligent human than I have said as much.
If you bury what you feel (heart) out of fear of confronting the truth, then don't expect anything to change. Your awakening begins with looking at the truth.
And that's exactly how we got Brexit.