[Closed] Conspiracy theories...

I've been saying for years that there's a secret government conspiracy to make us think the government is really competent enough to cover up visits by aliens.

I've spent time watch Flat Earth videos and even engaged them in lengthy conversations (Brian Cox's Facebook page is a rich source of them).

They completely believe it. Most are very passionate about it. The earth is flat and doesn't spin, the sun is really close, space doesn't exist, massive global cover up...

And yes, if you look at their Facebook pages they are often also filled with stuff about chemtrails, NWO, MKUltra etc etc

It is an effective distraction. People waste taste and effort arguing about nonsense, instead of issues that actually make a difference.

Interesting article by George Monbiot about contrail conspiracies. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2015/dec/04/the-contrails-conspiracy-is-not-just-garbage-its-letting-aviation-off-the-hook

I've been saying for years that there's a secret government conspiracy to make us think the government is really competent enough to cover up visits by aliens.

They're not doing a very good job.

[i]They're not doing a very good job. [/i]

That's what *they* want you to think!

I've been saying it for years, every two months on here a new thread is started about conspiracy theories.

Makes you think huh.

Poe's Law?

Thing is there are actually plenty of genuine government conspiracies, faliures and cover ups but they tend to be a bit more mundane than aliens, chemtrails and flat earth.

Poe's Law?

I don't think so. When I started looking at the flat earth stuff I assumed that and went in thinking: [i]"Surely this is all just big satirical troll. These people can't actually believe this can they?"[/i]

But most of them seem to sincerely believe and they are very serious about it. Many of them have months worth of YouTube videos "proving" it all.

It's fascinating.

It's probably a few chaps in a government building somewhere whose job it is to spread misinformation and outlandish BS in an effort to discredit conspiracy theories are true.

Of course nobody in their right mind believes the Earth is flat!

One thing I've always wondered about this flat earth. How thick is it?

Thick enough to support itself when balanced on the turtle's shell?

But there’s nothing boring about conspiracy theories. They make sense of what can sometimes feel like a senseless world. They tell you that you are among the elect: aware of a grand scheme that other people (or sheeple or sleeple as the conspiracy sites often like to call them) are unable or unwilling to see. [b]It tells you that you are a lonely crusader[/b] fighting evil of the kind that’s otherwise encountered only in films about superheroes.

From that Monbiot article. Of all the conspiracy believers I know, this is the major benefit to them. they "make sense" in a world that is troubling and confusing, and some of the political ones (9/11 and so on) fit a convenient narrative of propaganda and control driven mega-governments.

GrahamS - Member

Thick enough to support itself when balanced on the turtle's shell?

As long as the elephants don't shuffle around too much.

Don't forget the one where the entire bike industry got together and decided to kill off 26" bikes just so they could have something to read on STW when they needed a laugh.

Elephants?? This isn't Discworld y'know.

Everyone knows in the real world it's [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down ]turtles all the way down[/url].

It's probably a few chaps in a government building somewhere whose job it is to spread misinformation and outlandish BS in an effort to discredit conspiracy theories are true.

Amusingly if you get into this stuff you regularly see conspiracy nuts accusing other conspiracy nuts of being government plants or "shills".

They make sense of what can sometimes feel like a senseless world.

A lot of people have drawn comparisons to religion for that reason. The belief that there is A Plan is somehow comforting, even if you think the plan is formulated by evil space lizards.

Turtles float, so presumably it's swimming in something pretty dense.

Where's that jar full of mercury? I want to have a look inside.

That's what *they* want you to think!

Some of them genuinely believe it - but others are in it purely for the Youtube clickthrough advertising revenue.

Turtles float, so presumably it's swimming in something pretty dense.

Those are 'merkan turtles aka tortoises. They want you to think they're turtles.

Turtles float, so presumably it's swimming in something pretty dense.
Those are 'merkan turtles aka tortoises. They want you to think they're turtles.

The American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists uses "turtle" to describe all species of the order Testudines, regardless of whether they are land-dwelling or sea-dwelling, and uses "tortoise" as a more specific term for slow-moving terrestrial species.[1] General American usage agrees; turtle is often a general term (although some restrict it to aquatic turtles); tortoise is used only in reference to terrestrial turtles or, more narrowly, only those members of Testudinidae, the family of modern land tortoises; and terrapin may refer to turtles that are small and live in fresh and brackish water, in particular the diamondback terrapin (Malaclemys terrapin).[3][4][5][6] In America, for example, the members of the genus Terrapene dwell on land, yet are referred to as box turtles rather than tortoises.[2]

British usage, by contrast, tends not to use "turtle" as a generic term for all members of the order, and also applies the term "tortoises" broadly to all land-dwelling members of the order Testudines, regardless of whether they are actually members of the family Testudinidae.[6] In Britain, terrapin is used to refer to a larger group of semiaquatic turtles than the restricted meaning in America.[4][7]

Oh good it looks like some popular rapper ("B.o.B." ?) has picked up on the Flat Earth stuff and is currently convincing all his fans.

http://gawker.com/why-the-earth-is-flat-straight-from-the-mouth-of-a-ver-1754933801

Yeah like the conspiracy of another undiscovered planet in our solar system that ancient semerians told us about in stone texts haha I mean what a joke, do people really believe all this nonsense :lol:..........oh wait, hang on, what's this coming our way??? Surely not! 🙄

Errrr... except the [i]proposed[/i] orbit of the [i]conjectured[/i] [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_Nine ]Planet Nine never gets any closer to the sun than 200AU[/url], whereas [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_cataclysm ]the Sumerian Planet X or Nibiru was/is supposed to collide with Earth[/url] some time in the 21st century (originally in 2003).

So actually the only real similarity is the "undiscovered" bit.

Where do you get the bit where the Sumerian's put an undiscovered planet in stone texts from?

Where do you get the bit where the Sumerian's put an undiscovered planet in stone texts from?

I'm guessing he has read [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin ]Sitchin[/url]

[img] [/img]

http://www.sitchin.com/

Ideally while quite high.

By the way, chris85, here is a direct quote from the front page of the sitchin.com site:

With an elliptical orbit of 10,000 or 20,000 of our years, [b]this planet may not be Nibiru[/b], which has an orbit of about 3600 of our years. However, this prediction of a likely additional planet in our solar system is exciting news. Perhaps the search will lead us to either finding Nibiru, or perhaps we'll find that something has changed and impacted Nibiru's orbit since the last time it orbited Earth. I have my doubts, but since I'm not an astronomer, I'll keep an open mind. [b]I don't think this is Nibiru.[/b]

J.Sitchin - January 20, 2016

But yeah, it's definitely Nibiru. 🙄

crankboy - Member 

Where do you get the bit where the Sumerian's put an undiscovered planet in stone texts from?

POSTED 6 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Loads of sources, archeologist, geologists.. it's all out there, it's just mainstream scientists darent touch the stuff.

Ideally while quite high

Graham, you seem a very judge mental person.. Keep lurking on your flat earth sites and stop judging me.

Is that bloke the current Erich von Daniken?

Graham, you seem a very judge mental person..

I am, but I'm not judging you. I don't know you.

It was just a serving suggestion, that's all. 😀

Name a couple as most people are quite happy the Sumerians knew of 5 planets or 7 if you like they count the sun and moon .
What relevance has geology to ancient astronomy.
Why would mainstream sources be troubled by any of this ?

Is that bloke the current Erich von Daniken?

Other way around I think, von Daniken published first and is still alive.

Similar fields though: ancient astronaut theory, chariots of the gods etc

Hello I'm a geologist and you are mistaken. That's science that is.

I never said it was nibiru Graham, but it's a good example of how little humanity still knows, just like when Galileo proved the universe didn't circle around us..people couldn't believe it. We are still very primitive that's all I'm saying and this is my opinion.

thestabiliser - Member 

Hello I'm a geologist and you are mistaken. That's science that is.

Very good.. 🙂

I never said it was nibiru Graham

You're right. You said an [i]"undiscovered planet in our solar system that ancient semerians told us about in stone texts"[/i]

And I just assumed from that you meant Nibiru. Sorry.

Where can I read the Sumerian stone texts that predict Planet Nine and what did they call it?

it's a good example of how little humanity still knows

That I completely agree with. It is.

Though to be honest, not knowing about a theoretical planet that is 30-odd times further away than Neptune is pretty small fry compared to not knowing what's at the bottom of our oceans or not being entirely sure how paracetamol works.

We undoubtedly still have a lot to learn. There is no argument there.

Galileo was far from the first to prove that the universe didn't circle the earth in fact it was very much ancient knowledge when he was punished for disseminating that which was scholastically accepted fact to a wider audience.

I bet JHJ has a photograph of Jimmy Saville shaking hands with Robin Knox Johnson for just this occasion.

2 men, 1st man 'the earth is round!' ... 2nd man 'NO the earth is flat!' ..... but Neither of them could actually Prove one way or the Other! THE END. 😆

There are plenty of proofs Lawmanx, but they are built on common understanding.
Flat Earthers generally reject any laws of physics or geometry that contradict their model so it's pretty impossible to argue with.

For example, most FEs find the idea that the world spins to be ridiculous (because all the water would fly off). You could argue gravity keeps it in place but they don't believe in gravity. You could get them to take some star trail photos showing all the stars rotating around the Pole star and they will tell you that "the dome" is rotating above a stationary flat Earth. You could point out the same thing at the southern pole star and ask them to explain how a dome is spinning around two different points at the same time, or why people in the North (middle of the disc earth) can't see the southern pole star and people in the South (outer half of the disc earth) can't see the northern pole star, and they will tell you the dome is magical, created by God, so we can't comprehend it.

You can easily prove the earth is round the ancient Egyptians did it with wells .

I work opposite a very intelligent person who swears blind that the moon landings are a hoax, he always strings off a million reasons why it's a hoax all of which are the usual stuff from those crazy websites, the flag footprints the shadows reflections , whose holding the camera etc etc. you have to laugh.

I do however believe in cover ups, I do think that JFK and his brother were snuffed out by the government or a branch of the government to be precise. I don't think princess Diana was killed by the secret service but it is an interesting thought that she may have been preggers by fayed .
that would indeed be classed as I direct threat to the monarchy but I doubt it's true.

Prince Harry poor lad must be Hewitt's son cause he's a dead spit for sure.

And last but not least 911. The fire collapsed the towers due to the mass of paper and furniture etc that was burning long after the avgas Fire went out. That's highly likely. As it's been proven that the fuel alone couldn't hold the temp high enough. There was certainly no explosive charges involved as who layer them and why wasn't there any blasts when they were triggered.
The third tower tower 7 I think is also believed by many to have been blown. Although there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it, I've watched film of it coming down which was posted on a conspiracy forum saying that you can see the moment it starts to collapse and you can and you can clearly see there was no charges. It also said that no building has ever fallen just due to fire. I found quite a few on YouTube when I looked.
The plane heading to camp David was most likely shot down imo but I have no evidence but if it was me I would have shot it down. It's an unfortunate truth that those people were going to die regardless and at least it would have saved lives later on.
The pentagon I'm not so sure about, there is no video, that in itself is very odd but doesn't mean it was a missile just that the government don't want you to see it happen most likely as its either pretty bad or ....it was a missile ...?

Oh almost forgot the gulf was about the oil , yes we all know that,
Afghanistan was all about lithium highly likely as its going to be the next gold rush when the oil tops out or we all start choking to death.
Gaddafi was nailed because of the threat to the dollar and euro by his new African currency, so believe that.

As I said some of the above is how I see it

I work opposite a very intelligent person who swears blind that the moon landings are a hoax

Graham, there's proof on both sides and do you know what, I don't give a flying for either 'theory' because it affects me Nought, to know for sure you would have to go off planet and I really don't believe anyone has. 😆

it affects me Nought

How so?

If the world is flat then the worlds governments are wasting trillions and trillions of tax dollars keeping up the pretence and silencing the honest scientists or defectors.
On a personal level you are getting ripped off every time you get on a plane, because they have to waste fuel and time taking long circular flights when they could just go straight at the amazing high speeds they are [i]really[/i] capable of.
And of course They are stopping you from having your anti-gravity board.

I really don't believe anyone has

And that's a good example of the problem of proof. There are lots of pictures of a round earth from space. Tim Peake posts his own every day on Facebook and Flickr. But they will be rejected out of hand by Flat Earthers. I'm pretty sure you could fly those people to the moon and they'd still tell you they were on a sound stage in Hollywood.

Well, you can't argue with science like that.

The Guardian have also picked up the BoB story and it is trending nicely, to the consternation of its readers:
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jan/25/bob-rapper-flat-earth-twitter

😆

You don't have to go off planet to prove the earth is round! you just need two decent sized wells a known distance apart in a convenient location. You or rather Eratosthenes can also use the same method to accurately calculate the size of the planet. FFS most doubters of science prove little but their own absence of knowledge.

You could argue gravity keeps it in place but they don't believe in gravity

Have a look through YouTube crankboy, there are plenty of flat earth videos explaining why Eratosthenes is wrong and pointing out that all these clever geometry people are masons so they are in on it:

[img] [/img]

Makes you think 😉

There are lots of pictures of a round earth from space. Tim Peake posts his own every day on Facebook and Flickr.

all the cameras allowed on these space craft have been fitted with convexo-concave lenses, which is why the earth appears curved. Also the glass in the windows, and Tim's space suit helmet, so poor Tim is none the wiser and doesn't notice that the earth is really flat.

Makes you think

It would just tie into the fantasy of lizard people and freemason's being around since humanity started (which obviously started in the Garden of Eden as the world is only 6000 years old or whatever date the [s]thickies[/s]creationists are putting about now).

Pythagoras was born 570BC in Greece, the first Freemason Grand Lodge was in the early 18th Century....
Edit - now the best 'history' of lizard people etc... is from the Hyborian Age stories by a certain R.E.Howard about a certain Mr Conan of Cimmeria you'd be better off reading them.

I always find it hard to reconcile The Freemasons: The shady cultlike group whose pallid hand holds the rudder of global politics with The Freemasons: The fat middle aged gits who nick all the parking spaces outside our house on a thursday night.

I've actually been in a couple of masonic lodges (as a guest).
As far as I could see they were just a cheap bar full of fat middle-aged gits talking endlessly about football.

I assume that the rooms, where they run the sky projectors and plot world domination with the lizard people, are only open to paying members.

all the cameras allowed on these space craft have been fitted with convexo-concave lenses,

You're not going deep enough - those spacecraft don't exist you see. Space itself doesn't exist. There is no way to get past the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament ]Firmament[/url], otherwise you'd let all the water in.

[img] [/img]

Also the earth is hollow and the moon is giant spacecraft full of aliens 😉

Yeah there are some that claim we [i]actually[/i] live on the INSIDE of the globe earth, standing on the crust and looking up at the universe in the centre.

Because, yeah, that makes much more sense... 😯

Predictably the FE'ers have shown up in The Guardian comments and have IMPORTANT questions to ask. e.g.

Yucatan2001
ask yourself the Most obvious question, WHY? doesnt ANY non computer generated images exist of the Earth from Space. The "Blue Marble"was done in 1972, and has been used as the basis for every Ïmage" we see of space. 16000 Satellites in space......NOT one REAL image has ever been released, every single one is a cgi composite .....No real image from Space EXISTS...simply Computer generated images to keep the ******* flowing. Regarding Neil De Grasse Tyson....The mans a 33 degree mason, See curvature from your Airplane window?....Go read about Barrel Distortion & the effect curved windows have on your eyesight.. we have is to rely on Nasa for any evidence..( well pop yourslef off & go find out about who the Nazi scientist was, the SAME man who Blew up half of London with the V2 rockets killing over 100,000 people in London alone .....Guess where He ended up after WW2....Werner Von Braun WAS the leader of Nasa. Operation paperclip. - I suppose Wiki prints lies too?>...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

Excellent stuff.

The Earth is flat because Masons and Nazis.

You can't fault his logic.

Everyone's favourite "[url= ]Black Science Man[/url]", Neil deGrasse Tyson is heroically trying to instil some sense via twitter, but he is just getting swamped by more flat earthers.

https://twitter.com/neiltyson/with_replies

Also, turns out [url= http://gawker.com/why-the-earth-is-flat-straight-from-the-mouth-of-a-ver-1754933801 ]BoB also believes in Celebrity Cloning Centres[/url], which was a new one on me.

Prince Harry poor lad must be Hewitt's son cause he's a dead spit for sure.

Things NOT disappearing below the horizon when they should do is one of the key bits of evidence that Flat Earthers use. Essentially variations on experiments discussed here:
https://wiki.tfes.org/Experimental_Evidence

Eh....for those of us in the cheap seats......why would it matter if the earth was flat??

why would it matter if the earth was flat??

See my answer to Lawmanx above.

If the Earth is really flat then the global conspiracy to hide it is costing trillions upon trillions and keeping lots of clever technology from our hands.

Have a look through YouTube crankboy, there are plenty of flat earth videos explaining why Eratosthenes is wrong and pointing out that all these clever geometry people are masons so they are in on it:

I have square and compass, you are being watched.

Having a mooch around the flat earth forums is quite enlightening.

If the Earth is a Sphere, and about 40000 kilometers in diameter, that's 400 000 000 meters, and NASA has taken photographs from thousands of kilometers up in outer space, than how are we able to see features, like say forests on planet earth, when at best, trees are only 100 meters tall?

Uh huh.

It seems that most well presented criticisms are refuted with mirrors, aether, domes, or masons did it.

Go read about Barrel Distortion & the effect curved windows have on your eyesight..

why would it matter if the earth was flat??

See my answer to Lawmanx above.

If the Earth is really flat then the global conspiracy to hide it is costing trillions upon trillions and keeping lots of clever technology from our hands.

Graham, you can't even get my name right so why would I ever listen to an 'Expert' like you? 😆

I don't claim to be an expert Lawnmansex.

Graham, there's proof on both sides and do you know what, I don't give a flying for either 'theory' because it affects me Nought, to know for sure you would have to go off planet and I really don't believe anyone has.

If the world is flat then the worlds governments are wasting trillions and trillions of tax dollars keeping up the pretence and silencing the honest scientists or defectors.
On a personal level you are getting ripped off every time you get on a plane, because they have to waste fuel and time taking long circular flights when they could just go straight at the amazing high speeds they are really capable of.
And of course They are stopping you from having your anti-gravity board.

The simple bit of if you happen to believe and have the cash take a film crew and head over to the edge.

Well, hang on a minute - them blokes and ladies in big fiery rocket things, where did they go when someone lit the fuse? Because many, many people who had no vested interest or ulterior motive saw the magic light arc up into the sky.

Umm, there was no-one in the rocket, obviously. Just like there was no-one in the moon rockets that the Russians et al tracked. They just landed an empty moon lander on the moon so that they could then cut to a studio for the 'exterior' shots and then remotely triggered the lander back to the orbiting part and back to Earth. They must have done that otherwise the Russians would have been able to mock the Americans. Unless the Russians were in on the plot????

I'm getting the hang of this now. Everyone knew the moon landings were fake apart from me and my friends.

😆

many, many people who had no vested interest or ulterior motive saw the magic light arc up into the sky

Ahhhh yes.. but it [i]was[/i] an arc, wasn't it?

[img] [/img]
[url= http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/03/13/recap-story-atlas-5-rocket-launches-nasa-satellite-quartet/ ](Pic: spaceflightnow.com)[/url]

So [i]clearly[/i] that means it is coming right back down again, a few hundred miles away, without anyone noticing, somehow.

[i]"Common sense"[/i] tells us that a rocket should go straight up, not in an arc.

🙄

So. If the earth is flat, is the moon a sphere or just another flat disc?

I know this might be flat earth 101, but I'm not going to go and read any "evidence", I just need someone whose an expert to tell me.

(I'm not expert but) As I understand it they get a bit confused over the details.

Some say it is a sphere but (like the sun) it is WAAAY closer than the NASAtanists say.

Others say it is a disc or simply a projection/hologram like the one they use for the "space station".

I, for one, don't believe that this flat earth consipiracy exists, but is just a fabrication by the mainstream media to make all the genuine conspiracies seem more ridiculous by association.

A bit like the fact that Trump is a left-wing plant to undermine the Republicans.

GrahamS - Member

I don't claim to be an expert Lawnmansex.

that's better! that's what the wife calls me too 😉

just to clarify, I don't know if the earth is flat OR round! after much reading and video watching ive come to the conclusion that there is evidence for both 'Theories' and all I know is .....I Don't really know!
there are many very clever people (like graham) on both sides of the argument but im firmly into the undecided camp until further concrete evidence 🙂

ive come to the conclusion that there is evidence for both 'Theories'

Anyway, Me Sir, Me Sir (clicks fingers). I have a question.

Tides? How do they work in the flat earth model?

im firmly into the undecided camp until further concrete evidence

Out of interest, what evidence would it take to convince you? What would you need to see to be convinced one way or the other?