[Closed] Consider Phlebas TV series isn’t happening...

A multinational company whose only interest is profit and an ultra conservative home audience may well have compromised the representation of the culture. That would be my early guess.

Makes me sad, but it isn't surprising.

I've reread every IMB book over lockdown. Depresses me that I'll never read another new book by him 😟

Ajantom, well said.

While a bit of me is quite sad about this. another part of me is quire relieved.  They'd have ****ed it up.

Banks was famously cautious about any adaptations...I guess that same caution is held by his estate.
I’m sure they’d get it wrong but imagine if it was good...

I still check in bookshops incase I’ve somehow missed a book by him 😢

A well done representation of The Culture would be an awesome thing. Although it would make me even more depressed that I can’t actually live in it.
I live in hope that it’s all true, which is even more depressing because Earth joins the culture in about 2100, and I’ll be dead.☹️

I'm kind of glad. I've got such a rich picture in my head from the books that and kind of adaptation would inevitably be a let down. Kind of like altered carbon except with better source material so greater disappointment.

I'm going to have to read these books. Looking for something a bit different and I've been rereading some Iain Banks (The Crow Road just now). Complicity was also the first novel I read as an adult. Having read all the regular stuff, sometimes several times, I seemed to avoid the sci fi even though I know how highly regarded it is.

Where would one start?

YoKaiser, since you know his writing style, and are familiar with not knowing what the book is about until you finish it, you could start almost anywhere with IMB. They don't need to be read in order, and are as varied as the IB books. Transition might live up to its name, it was published as IB in the UK and IMB in the USA, I think.

Start with Phlebas. It’s a good story with a good amount of explanation of the Culture. Then read the rest in any order you fancy really.

COnsider Phlebas is actually a decent starter but not essential, it is just set in the time of frequently referenced back story (the Idiran War). I'd actually go for something like Use of Weapons as it is more story focussed than space opera, I'd probably compare it to The Bridge in it's style. I started on The Player of Games and it took a couple of attempts, a lot of folk don't like it as the protagonist is a bit of a dick (but definitely not at a Song of Stone level) but I don't see that as a bad thing. After that go nuts, Inversions is a hard read as it's a dialogue, kinda like Walking on Glass and A Song of Stone.

I would say start with Use of Weapons.

Player of games or excession as starters for me.

Give you a good idea of the scope of the culture and the viciousness of the minds.

And the scope of the author's imagination.

I'd also recommend The Algebraist, not a culture novel but has some interesting characters and concepts.

I'd love to see a Culture TV series but they're such a challenge to do well. Agree with the comments above that a poor effort would be worse than nothing. Still waiting for Rendezvous with Rama 🙁

His sci-fi short story is a good place to start IMO. Got some Culture stuff in it as well.

I have understood why the Wasp Factory was never picked up? Would be fairly straight forward to do as a movie, or 3 or 4 part drama.

Inversions is a hard read as it’s a dialogue

Forgot to add, probably don't start with Feersum Endjinn, the dialogue is definitely feersum. The non-Culture IMBs are just as good as the Culture, but the Culture as a concept is greater than the individual books.

Player of games or excession as starters for me

Ah but then might have peaked early with Excession as we all love GSVs that that has more Mind chat in it than any other I’ve found so far

I started with Phlebas and I think that's what I'd recommend, it's the most stand-alone and a big tub-thumping space opera. Use of Weapons would work too... I love Player of Games but I think it works a bit better if you're more familiar with the background.

(even though they're all called the Culture series, almost all the stories happen on the edge of or outside of the Culture itself, on account of the interior of a space utopia with unlimited resources is boring)

I'd suggest starting with Use of Weapons, Consider Phlebas or Player of Games, these all introduce the culture while being 'human' stories set in the culture. After that just go for it....

Some of the books reference earlier stuff but it's not essential. Although the name at the end of Surface Detail would have no impact if you'd not read the earlier book.

And (back to IB) Complicity contains the (happy) ending to The Bridge.

Might be time to re-read the whole series again... I'll do it in the order it was written in, though 🙂

@kcal
I’d never made a link between those books; tell me more?

I'd like forget all I know about the Culture and read Inversions first to see what conclusion I came to.

@lister - I think it was a throw-away remark (in Raw Spirt possibly), but having gone back and re-read Complicity, it's there for definite - Cameron meets up in the Cafe Royal (not the other episode there though) with his pal Al who has a growing bald spot and a scar across his forehead, and is out for the evening with his wife Andi.

Well that’s me rereading The Bridge soon...I was heading to doing Complicity next but I’ll pop The Bridge in before it now. Thanks!

The audio books narrated by Peter Kenny are awesome for long car journeys. I do a lot of miles and am rapidly running out of his books. I have a few of the culture books but it's hard to read whilst driving.
Currently listening to The Algebraist, not narrated by Kenny, which is a shame but still really enjoying it. Luciferous the Archimandrite (spelling?) amuses me.

@lister there's always something new in The Bridge on re-read. Complicity too, to a lesser extent. Having gone to university in Glasgow, then started working life in Edinburgh - in and around the locations dropped in - it feels very familiar (ha!). My copy of The Bridge is a well-worn paperback, signed by himself, as well as The Crow Road.

I can imagine writers having a mare interpreting the novels. The books leave questions nagging at you that would be hard work in a limited attention span TV series.

Are the Idirans position justified? Who is who in inversions? What happened to the Oct afterwards?

TV audiences would probably find these unanswered questions as plot holes rather than 'you decide'

the name at the end of Surface Detail would have no impact if you’d not read the earlier book

Had to find Surface Detail and remind myself of that. On reflection, Surface Detail would not be a good Culture book to start on.

his pal Al who has a growing bald spot and a scar across his forehead

Good spot, thanks - I've just read Complicity and missed that. But I did wonder if there were some links to John Rebus in places, and IB and IR were friends. Apart from the obvious one in Walking on Glass I think I spotted a reference to Douglas Adams somewhere else.

I’ve reread every IMB book over lockdown. Depresses me that I’ll never read another new book by him

Absolutely this. 🙁
I’m actually re-reading all of the Culture books in sequence at the moment, on Excession now, although I’ve skipped Player Of Games, just because the main character is so unutterably repellent, and The State Of The Art, only because it’s a set of short stories. I’ll go back to it after reading all of the main sequence books, along with The Algebraist and Feersum Enjun, which is a challenging read, because of the rather idiosyncratic syntax!

I actually have one of his early short stories that I've not read (Odd Attachment), it's in a collection called Arrows of Eros if anyone fancies tracking it down. I'm saving it for a rainy day along with the last Pratchett novel.

Forgot to add, probably don’t start with Feersum Endjinn, the dialogue is definitely feersum.

If you can handle the phonetic Scots in The Bridge Feersum Endjinn is easy enough. Though I say that as a native.

Ah but then might have peaked early with Excession as we all love GSVs that that has more Mind chat in it than any other I’ve found so far

Absolutely! You also have to read Excession before Hydrogen Sonata though as the ITG references don't make as much sense and the chronology would be all wrong.

I’ve skipped Player Of Games, just because the main character is so unutterably repellent

See, I don't think he really is. For spoiler reasons. He's a smug git for sure but certainly not repellent compared to something Irvine Welsh would come up with.

I think I started with consider phlebas. Player of games I found hard to get into but in the end really enjoyed. I now looking at the bookshelf debating reading them again. Wish I'd bought all of them on paper rather than some on kindle.

Wish I’d bought all of them on paper rather than some on kindle.

Half of mine came from charity shops I think, always worth a look.

A very good point, thanks. Books also cheap in eBay a lot of the time.

Feersum Endjinn

Shudder.... I think it’s the only book I’ve started to read but then bailed on as it was just hard work.

I'm not too disappointed, i think it would be difficult for any TV series to do justice to the world of the Culture. They would need a visonary director involved and an infinite budget. Or they would end up adding romance subplots and less interesting characters to ease the viewer s into the story.

I love the Culture books, I'm currently rereading them (seems like we all are !) Just finished Use Of Weapons, gets me every time. I'm happy for the books to continue to be visualized in my head, where I can't be disappointed...

Complicity contains the (happy) ending to The Bridge.

Yes! also; The Bridge is a Culture novel...Discuss.

squirrelking
the last Pratchett novel.

I've also got that waiting on the shelf.

As for IMB, I started with Look To Windward. The conversation about ship names had me hooked.

Started with Look to Windward too and it's still probably my favourite.

Feersum Endjinn

Shudder…. I think it’s the only book I’ve started to read but then bailed on as it was just hard work.

Funny, but I never found this, reading it phonetically I found quite easy.

Definitely worth trying again, as the world/society building he does in it is great.

Love the sloths 😎

Which is the book with the "fake hell"? That would make a great film if anyone had the guts to properly go for it. However I think his books say a bit too much about popular society to be made into block buster movies.

Which is the book with the “fake hell”?

Surface Detail

Jeezo that one is dark. Good though.

Feersum Endjinn was a funny one, I read this on a long haul flight and got off the plane tired following a phonetic section. I then struggled to read the signs in the terminal. Really weird feeling like having your brain rewired. I must dig out my copy and read it again.

this is an interesting read - A FEW NOTES ON THE CULTURE by Iain M Banks

the last Pratchett novel.

A Hat Full Of Sky? I have a special edition of that book, hardcover in a board slipcase with a silver fleck in the board covers. I’ve never read it, couldn’t bring myself to at the time, and as time goes on, I think I’ll leave it unread. I do have an ebook copy to read anyway.
Similar case with Good Omens, my copy is signed by both authors, I think I read it once.
Sadly, I’ll never have the pleasure of meeting the author of the Culture books, who’s brought me an enormous amount of pleasure over the years. 🙁

I like, for obvious reasons, the discussion of gsv names.
Started with phlebas.

Every time I'm in a book shop I check out B in the sci-fi section and get a but sad

A Hat Full Of Sky?

Only several years out, The Shepherds Crown.

I think I'll try Consider Phelbas, some folks saying start there and I do prefer reading everything in order even if it's not necessary.

Also finished Crow Road, as enjoyable as it always was. I've been rereading a lot recently and some books haven't aged well, this is still fantastic. Only now as well as relating to Prentice I can relate to Kenneth too. Some social commentary that is still quite relevant today.

I like Feersum Enjinn. I think there's something similar to the planetary object in the Edinburgh Observatory (most likely). It was Song of Stone that I found really hard work, and sat on shelf for 18 months. Would not go back to it. Others had their moments of redemption - not that one..

It was Song of Stone that I found really hard work, and sat on shelf for 18 months. Would not go back to it.

Urgh, you and me both. The world it's set in is interesting enough but the protagonist and the style of writing are both hard work. I really need to work up to Inversions again, it's been a long time and feel it deserves a second run.

Loved Phlebas, Player of Games and Use of Weapons. Then started on Surface Detail and hit the buffers.

I'm quite glad I read this thread a couple of weeks ago. I've got a bunch of these that I haven't read in about 25 years. I was out of the blue called into hospital this afternoon and grabbed Consider Phlebas. I think I'll have a bit of time to go through a few of these as they're taking me down to chisel some holes in my L5 vertebra tomorrow morning.

Only several years out, The Shepherds Crown.

That’s it, like I said, I managed to get hold of the special edition hard cover, put it away and just couldn’t bring myself to read it, I think I’d find it too sad knowing there will never be any more books like the three Tiffany Aching ones, and I’d forgotten the title.
Regarding the Culture books, I’m some way through Matter at the moment, and enjoying that one again, I particularly like how Choubris Holse develops as a character in his own right.

Raw Spirit would make a decent TV adaptation though.

I suspect McGregor and Boorman on bikes wandering round distilleries might work.

Someone will be along in a minute to tell me it’s been done.

Odd attachment is great, especially when you find out what it is 😀

I’ve reread every IMB book over lockdown. Depresses me that I’ll never read another new book by him

Absolutely this. 🙁

And another +1. My wife couldn't work out why I was so upset at his death.

Mine could, even though she couldn't get on with the books.
Complicity was the first 'modern' adult book I read, at about 11 or 12 years old. The Crow Road I've read at least twenty times in the last twenty five years, and it felt like my life mirrored that of Prentice's for a lot of my first twenty years on this planet. Transition I read from cover to cover while my wife was in protracted labour with our first, and Raw Spirit was what got me in to whisky. I miss Iain Banks.

Am I the only person who thinks that Life On Mars (the TV show) owes a HUGE amount to The Bridge?

Sad about the Culture TV show, but as others have said, at least they can't cock it up if it's not happening.

Just to resurrect this thread..

I've just finished Use of Weapons - I haven't read it since sometime in the 90s so couldn't remember much of it..

Wow!

I must admit getting to about 50 pages from the end and wondering why Zakalwe was allergic to chairs just because his sister had sex on one, then got to the end - double-wow!! There aren't many books I'd re-read immediately but I'd be happy to do it with this, and I know that the later Culture books just keep getting better.

OK. After reading all the love on here I'm going to try some Culture.
Nearly 60 years a scifi fan and never even tried any.
Wish me luck as I head off to Kindle.

I personally didn't get on with Use of Weapons that much.

The thing is though (and as said above) the Culture is far bigger than the individual books. I read a few, thinking 'yeah these are good' and then around book four or five I suddenly realised what they were all about and I was properly blown away. In a way that feels like it ruins everyone else's efforts at literature.

weird thing is, nobody ever seems to want to make Espedair Street. There was a sort of radio adaptation but it'd make great TV.

YoKaiser
Full Member

Also finished Crow Road, as enjoyable as it always was. I’ve been rereading a lot recently and some books haven’t aged well, this is still fantastic. Only now as well as relating to Prentice I can relate to Kenneth too. Some social commentary that is still quite relevant today.

Haven't read it for a while but just rewatched the TV series, man it is good.

I just finished Use of Weapons today too - really enjoyed it

Nearing the end of Matter - really enjoying it. Does a really good job of making the Oct deeply irritating!