[Closed] Computer games & age ratings

you've done well to keep it up.. the kids around here are on it are year 5 / 6. Its the themes in COD that I find a bit disturbing. The multiplayer co op / bot battles arent so bad. ( black ops 1 /2 ) or Plants v zombies.
Depends on the maturity of the kids I suppose.

Call of Duty has some violent scenes in single player games but multiplayer not much really other than you shoot the chracters. GTA 5 is extremely violent, full of swearing, you can take drugs, sleep with prostitutes and rob shops. A lot of that is also in the multiplayer.

I let my 12 year old play COD she has since she was 11, she asked about GTA again the other day and I'm still saying no.

I'm with you - my Son's (10) friends, if you believe what you're told, are all allowed to play GTA, COD and any other adult game they fancy - I wonder if their parents have taken the time to check them themselves - or is it a case that they haven't played since they owned a mega drive and assume it's all like it used to be back then.

kids in primary school play the 18's

I am with you on this but may start to relax the stance around that age - i guess sometime between 14- 16 it will be ok??- by picking the least violent

We let our eldest, 11, can play some 16 games that we've approved eg Star Wars battle front. No GTA or COD, but I can't guarantee what he's not playing at pals' houses.

Thanks for replies so far.
I've never played GTA but Drac's comment above has reinforced my fears & I don't think we'll be relaxing our views on this any time soon.

Interesting comment from cheekymonkey about the multiplayer battles on cod, will have to find out more about that.

My 7 year old is playing Battlefront and I can't for the life of me work out why it's a 16 rating. There's no blood or gore, it's a straight forward goodies vs baddies shooter, no warped objectives etc. Only thing I can think of is the online content but as we don't use headsets that's not an issue. I think Halo is similarly over rated. GTA and COD can wait though, totally different proposition. Trouble is parents get confused with the ratings.

The whole point of GTA is that it's black satire. They make it as depraved as they can get away with for this reason. I would worry that younger kids might think that the stuff in the game is funny for the wrong reasons. In other words, that it's fun stuff to, rather than funny to watch the characters do because of how bad it is.

Ah the edinburgh defence for computer games...well played

Just because you give it a derogatory name doesn't make it wrong, you understand that right?

And GTA is a joke, has always been a joke, that is the whole.point of eight or however many games there have been.

Who's defending GTA? Molgrips is just telling it like it is. Or is it only satire if it's Binners saying it?

As said GTA is satirical but I seriously doubt a 12 year old would understand where the lines are drawn, its not like the old days where you were an asexual blob running about making Duke Nukem look graphic. And no way would I be letting a kid that age play COD, not after the Russian Airport mission I watched where you mow down an entire terminals worth of civilians with an LMG. Dont get me wrong, I'm all for exercising common sense where ratings are concerned but only having experienced it first hand.

As far as multiplayer shooters go Planetside 2 is pretty safe- no gore and 13 rated IIRC, its also free unless you subscribe to member benefits so worth a look.

Just because you give it a derogatory name doesn't make it wrong, you understand that right?

/Dives in front of reply screaming Noooooooo!

I think Multiplayer is a different kettle of fish in a lot of these games. My lad (nearly 13) is allowed Battlefront, Battlefield (which seems pretty OK in multiplayer battles), but not COD or GTA. On the PC he gets stuff like TF2, which is fine, apart from getting beheaded by a rampaging Scotsman.

He doesn't particularly seem interested in the story modes.

The main problem with a lot of games seems to be the chat, which needs turning off to avoid being called a faggot every now and again by some resentful US teen.

I started a similar thread this time last year.

The most difficult part is not sinking to the lowest common denominator. As a parent you dont want to exclude your child from activities (s)he enjoys with friends, but the age rating of some of the games compared to their age is worrying.

I've ended up allowing games for my son (14) that I would have liked to withhold for another couple of years.

One of the problems here is that I play games so know what is in them, many parents are clueless!

[quote=molgrips ]And GTA is a joke, has always been a joke, that is the whole.point of eight or however many games there have been.

It's awfully real feeling for a joke (yep, as discussed on [b]that[/b] thread it's fiction, but a 12yo probably won't be able to discriminate).

I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here - you're not actually suggesting that it's suitable for kids because it's a joke are you?

I think most of us on here understand what is in these games as we've played them (or similar) ourselves, but presumably that doesn't apply to a lot of parents. Not suggesting irresponsibility here, just lack of awareness.

Just because you give it a derogatory name doesn't make it wrong, you understand that right?

Just because you play the defence does not make it true either and as a defence [of GTA] its somewhere between species and plausible deniability for the makers.

By all means enjoy ironically murdering prostitutes ,killing cops and being a bad ass gangster.

How many of the GTA games have you played all the way through Junkyard?

I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here - you're not actually suggesting that it's suitable for kids because it's a joke are you?

No, I'm saying that you have to be old enough to get that it's a joke - hence not suitable for kids. I don't think Junkyard is old enough 😉

^^ that's a joke, just to make it clear.

Question for Junkyard - do you think the makers of GTA think killing prostitutes is funny?

I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here - you're not actually suggesting that it's suitable for kids because it's a joke are you?

How did you ever come to that conclusion based on his post?

as an aside..what exactly is the edinburgh defence...

What conclusion did you think I'd come to? I was asking a rhetorical question - I assumed he wasn't suggesting that.

FWIW I've played through several GTAs and not sure it being satire is particularly relevant to it's age suitability - either way you have to maintain that it's not real unless you're a psychopath, and TBH one of the reasons I've not got very far through GTA5 (had it a year and only played a few hours) is that it's become too real feeling.

How many of the GTA games have you played all the way through Junkyard?

Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government or society itself, into improvement.

Its pretty hard to argue that this is what they are doing though of course they won't say no we do it because its popular and it makes money even though we know its rather distasteful.

do you think the makers of GTA think killing prostitutes is funny?

I have a wee rule in life where as when I think somethign is bad I try to not to do. You?

My aim is to learn and understand. I have a rule about not commenting on things I don't understand. If you haven't played them to any degree then you really don't know what you are talking about. You have to accept this. If you'd played it you'd know how ludicrously satirical it is. Everything and everyone in the game is soundly ridiculed.

You seem to think the game is actually about killing prostitutes for starters.

My lads almost 13 any games he wants are approved by myself then the wife.
No GTA although he keeps begging to get it.
He does play COD with his mates online.

My 12 year old seems perfectly happy not having access to higher rated games or films. Think we have been lucky.

Though given what complete knobs his mates sound like when they brag about what they play/watch/do, I can see why he has kept away from that peer pressure - and I suspect a lot are bluffing anyway.

do you think the makers of GTA think killing prostitutes is funny?

It should probably be noted that GTA doesn't [i]require[/i] you to kill prostitutes.

It doesn't [i]prevent[/i] you from doing so, but the decision is all yours.

I think that raises a more interesting general question on the "morality" in free-play sandbox type games - especially as technology allows them to become more realistic and immersive.

Yes. You can kill as many bystanders as you want. Some of whom may be prostitutes. You do not get points for it, nor is it part of any of the missions.

GTAV is a story about youth and growing old.

There are kids in my 9 yr old sons class who have been playing gta and cod for several years. These kids are always the ones in trouble. I know correlation <> causation but it can't help.

I don't think the not understanding how far computer games have progressed argument stands. Have the parents really relaxed their responsibilities so far they don't ever enter the room when their kids are playing?

What also confuses me is the number of parents I know whose kids play an 18 game but wouldn't be allowed to watch a 15 film. Seems strange to me.

I have a rule about not commenting on things I don't understand.

If you haven't played them to any degree then you really don't know what you are talking about.

You seem to think the game is actually about killing prostitutes for starters

I think the problem might be that many parents don't link "game" with violence, sex, drugs etc.

My little brother was allowed to play GTA from about 10 years old. My parents just couldn't get their heads round a "game" having an age certificate. I tried explaining it was the same as films. Would they let him watch Hellraiser at 10. They just responded that it was a game and therefore fine.

I'm hoping my kids have the same view as me - too many friends and too many bikes to waste time playing Xbox. Except Street Fighter 2. I kick arse at Street Fighter....

FWIW I think that GTA is far more harmful than THAT calendar.

JY - I disappoint. It took you 5 posts on this thread to spot a strawman.

i can only work with what i am given perhaps you should prise the forum for self restraint 😉

I was really into online FPS shooters in the late 90's early 00's, I was very good at them, compelled to be the best (for some reason). I had memorised maps and strategies and movements. I became obsessed. It took a real toll on my sleep and my mood. At one point I became aware that it was affecting my ability or desire to interact with people and I had to go cold turkey.

Those games look pretty innocuous now by today's standards, but it's odd how people equate online multiplayer war games as okay because there's no sexual content, drug references or limited violence.

I've played and completed every GTA game (except 4) and I've found the games to be much more entertaining and engaging without the zombifying effect some FPS games have.

The fact that you can kill prostitutes in GTA is about as relevant as the fact that you can teabag the corpses of dead soldiers in COD.

The point I realised I needed to cut back was when I was tea bagging a dead hooker outside of a computer game...

The main problem with a lot of games seems to be the chat, which needs turning off to avoid being called a faggot every now and again by some resentful US teen.

Playing private games with friends should avoid that (or at least, will be no worse than they hear at school on a daily basis, which will almost certainly be worse than 'faggot').

I know correlation <> causation but it can't help.

I doubt it's causation but rather two symptoms of the same problem; parents who don't give a shite about their kids.

What also confuses me is the number of parents I know whose kids play an 18 game but wouldn't be allowed to watch a 15 film. Seems strange to me.
...
My parents just couldn't get their heads round a "game" having an age certificate. I tried explaining it was the same as films. Would they let him watch Hellraiser at 10. They just responded that it was a game and therefore fine.

Cartoons are for kids too. I suggest you sit them down to a fun family evening watching Urotsukidoji.

Really though, even if they naively think "games are for kids," don't they ever check on what junior is up to?

More likely that they know exactly what junior is up to, but are enjoying the sedative effect too much to risk rocking that particular boat.

My lad (age 11) gets to play online on CoD and battlefield. The online setup means that he can only talk to people that he knows, and we get those routinely.

I watch him playing on a regular basis - the online matches tend to be routine, the campaign has more structured violence in it. We discuss the behaviours, and where our boundaries are.

No GTa

Currently sharing a house with a couple of guys who are glued to CoD, the multiplayer is just a normal shooting match, nothing more than that. I much prefer the story based single player stuff myself even after the Russian airport thing, as part of a story it made sense and the moral dimension could be assessed as an adult. Not for kids though

Completely agree, it's all about context and knowing how equipped your kids are to process and understand what they are consuming.

Wish people could apply that to what they criticise as well.

I told my kids no. Simples.

My son is now at med school and plays it.

The kids I teach at school (11-18) all pkay it and the addicted ones perform the worst in school.

Don't blame anyone except yourself - if you're kids are messed up or tolerant to violence.

Blimey every single child plays it?

Of course they do and it's all down to playing these that some perform worse.

@Junkyard, respectfully I think you're wrong on this. GTA is a weird game; it's basically a story of ne'erdowells and the world within which they live. By itself that's not wonderful, but no different from a thousand other stories, in print and on film. The novelty of the game is the freedom to act within it. I'm not going to suggest that it doesn't 'encourage' some iffy stuff within the story line, but it's nothing that you won't see in films or read in books. You can choose to play with or without a moral compass, though. The behaviour of the player character reflects the character of the person playing it, to some degree. The game does not actively encourage the more heinous acts, and in fact will actively punish them, with increased 'wanted' levels and the like. Yes, it's easy to get away with stuff, but actually, there's a hell of a lot of stuff that is gotten away with in real life too, and I'm far more concerned about them. I suspect you could tell an awful lot about a persons character by the way they play games like GTA when they think no one is looking...

Getting aerated about the fact that you can kill prostitutes and 'get away with it' in GTA is a bit like getting aerated about the fact that you can kill prostitutes in real life and get away with it.

That said, in the context of this thread, it so should be a STRICT 18. In fact, I'm personally not sure a lot of 'adults' should play it either...

It's tough one.

Some studies show it promotes parts of the grain development while other studies show it impairs parts of the brain.

Game developers know the reward pathways of the grain and try to use at least 2/3 from 4 in each game - brain feels good and wants more rewards.

Done studies show improved hand to eye coordination while other studies show early dementia and depression.

I love games, my kids love games but I limited them and kicked them out if their rooms for the real world. Did it work? Who knows but if the movie or game said 18 or above, then 17 or under should not be watching it for a reason? Duh!

Well, with the combined input from you guys, mumsnet and a few friends in similar situations we've reached a decision.
GTA is staying off limits indefinitely, COD is to be permitted under certain strict conditions ie multiplayer mode only, blood/gore and bad language options disabled and only closed groups online so he knows everyone who's playing.

We've also retained the right to veto if we don't like what we see when he gets it and used it as a negotiating tool to implement some rules around playing time limits (which we'd been planing to do anyway).

So hopefully a win-win, although I'd still rather he stuck to good old FIFA!

We have always been conservative on this. 14 year old just started a couple of 15's and 16's, and the 13 year old has also just got Halo (15?)

I also agree there is immense naivety around the game content - too many of our sons classmates parents just don't understand, or are unwilling to resist the peer pressure, or want to limit to films or games as a positive choice.

as an aside..what exactly is the edinburgh defence...

Talking bollocks then when you get called out on it trying to pretend you were joking. Usually unsuccessfully. Named due to it's regular use by Edinburgh dwelling forumites past and present.

How thick are your kids?

The age ratings are surely just made up for the council housers, none of which will adhere to them anyway.

I was a bright lad; I got to play GTA when it was released; think I was 12 or 13 at the time.

An old friend of mine, who was one of the first to get it, is now a copper; would you believe?! Ironic really, since we used to sit in his room, giddy with excitement, after mashing one of them into the pavement in a getaway car.

GTA 3 (to which I assume you are referring) is a different proposition to 4 and 5.

GTA 3 (to which I assume you are referring

😀

It was the original!

From what I've seen, the new ones are a bit more realistic/graphic? 😆

Although kids are a bit more clued up these days aswell, compared to when I were a lad.

It's all character building stuff though innit. Just look at all the kids who went off the rails/a bit wild later in life. They were always the ones with the really strict parents. something to think about...

Oh.. Flipping eck. GTA 1 was silliness. 4 was dark, 5 is messed up...

GTA 1 was silliness. 4 was dark, 5 is messed up...

I think the last one I played on was Vice City on the PS2.

The first was certainly daft, especially looking back. Although running over cops and setting Hare Krishnas alight was deffo ground breaking at the time.

I imagine the latest ones are just over the top for the sake of it; their target audience is kids afterall. As an adult, I've seen it all before on the internet anyway 😉

Getting aerated about the fact that you can kill prostitutes and 'get away with it' in GTA is a bit like getting aerated about the fact that you can kill prostitutes in real life and get away with it.

Isn't getting aerated about the second thing is a perfectly legitimate reaction?

My point is, it's tilting at windmills. Im trying (poorly) to highlight the difference between getting cross at the concept of the possibility of the crime, rather than at the crime itself. My badly made point is that the game allows horrific behaviour, but as far as I'm aware it doesn't actually encourage it in any meaningful way more than say, a Tarintino film. To condemn a 'sandbox style' game for what is possible, vs what is encouraged by the storyline is misguided, I think.

Generally think GTA is a great game, the sandbox allows for all kinds of mayhem. As messed up as GTA5's story is, I don't think you find yourself empathising with any of the characters (except Trevor, poor guy, so misunderstood).

The satire is ok and on occasion brilliant, but I think they shoot for South Park levels and often miss.

That torture scene was just weird though, I found it pretty uncomfortable (far more so than CoD's "No Russian" airport scene).

Agree on the murdering prostitutes thing. You can run over old people, set fire to police officers, RPG a church and drink drive and crash a car into a fast food truck. Just because you can do them, doesn't make them a particularly fun part of the game, in fact they're not game-ified at all - there's generally no incentive to do them.

davidtaylforth

I imagine the latest ones are just over the top for the sake of it; [b]their target audience is kids afterall.[/b] As an adult, I've seen it all before on the internet anyway

There, you've made the mistake most parents make. The target audience of the GTA (and similar) game developer is not kids. It's 20-30 year old males.

My view on games is I'll play them first before my lad does. In general this has meant that he plays things that list as up to a couple of years older than him. At 6 there's no way he's playing Halo (would have nightmares, is 16 rated) and Rise Of The Tomb Raider (excessive graphic violence, 18 rated). Tomb Raider I struggled with though. For most of the game as I played it, it's fine, jumping around solving puzzles, and he'd love that and be able to play it. Then she gets eaten by a bear, burnt to death by a maniac with a flamethrower, and killed by being impaled on sharp spikes. All in beautiful high-def detail.

Certs are on games for a reason, just as they are on films. But it appears the advice to play before you give to kids falls on just as many deaf ears as view a film before you let the kids see it also does.

Then she gets eaten by a bear, burnt to death by a maniac with a flamethrower, and killed by being impaled on sharp spikes.

You think that's bad. There's a game where you fire a blackbird at a pig's home before it explodes taking the pig with it.

My 10 yr old plays cod online, no chit chat allowed to randomers etc NO gta.
I watch him play nown again. I thought I was good a few years ago when high up in original battlefield rankings but by God he's a different league. How longs black ops 3 been out, I noticed there was people ranked 50+ already. He was winning these matches. Should I be a proud father, I'm not sure....

You think that's bad. There's a game where you fire a blackbird at a pig's home before it explodes taking the pig with it.

That's nothing. My two play a game which encourages running down railway tracks narrowly missing oncoming trains.

Can someone gimme a leg up please? I can't seem to get on to this moral high horse 😉

My suggestion is that responsible parents will know and understand their kids and be able to relate to where their child/ren are in terms of age and emotional intelligence and development. Similarly, honest, realistic discussions about gaming content and..... wait for it..... trust, yes, trust, combine to healthy happy parent/child relationships.

Given that, have you thought about the fact that most of the aforementioned considered brutal bits of all these games are freely available on YouTube walkthroughs? With the added benefit of uncensored very colourful language in many different geographical accents and are most probably viewed extensively by those little precious darlings considered too young and delicate to witness such bad taste.

Go get 'em folks! Or have you all had your memories from your own childhood removed shortly after your first ****? 😉

Or have you considered that those self-same responsible parents who know and understand their kids also don't let their kids have unfettered access to Youtube and similar on the interwebs?

Good point, although the parental reach tends to be confined to the boundaries of home...

With the added benefit of uncensored very colourful language in many different geographical accents and are most probably viewed extensively by those little precious darlings considered too young and delicate to witness such bad taste.

Some of the better Goat Simulator walkthroughs are particularly colourful, in an Irish flavour no less.

Not sure if the videos are funnier than the game tbh.