[Closed] Compressed working - experiences?

I did in Nursing - 3x 13 hr days rather than 5x 8. the long days are very tiring and you have no time to do anything but eat sleep and work but you then have 4 days off. One to recover, one to do shopping and housework and stuff, 2 to play

I loved it

Wondering about going down to 90% but doing it in 4 days to give me Friday off each week to ride bikes

I did that for my first year of an apprenticeship degree. If you think you won't end up doing five days of work in 4...

I'm looking to do similar, currently doing 50-odd hour weeks on a 36 hour contract. I don't really mind doing long days, especially now I'm WFH in the main, but if I can get it agreed I'm going to go to 4 days plus a half day Friday, so I can block off Friday pm

I have worked full-time hours in 9 days instead of 10 since the kids came along 8 years ago. Every other Monday off for childcare or nowadays diy etc.

Really its just formalising a day off in lieu of overtime, and only works because I have clear contracted hours and record timesheets.

Reality is, customers don't switch off on those days, the organisation haven't 'backfilled' me, colleagues think it's discretionary (setting up meetings etc on those days), so for my sanity (unless it's a kids holiday) I end up working.

@theotherjonv - I had wondered about that and we have an older bike riding prof who does this and goes out on his bike in the afternoon. Just know I’ll be bad stepping away from the computer at lunchtime once I get online. Wondered if they won’t let me do compressed hours of doing 9/10 instead which at least means I have full day to go off and explore etc each fortnight.

@csb there lies the concern. I wonder if it is every week it is a little easier for people to remember. But your right, the work doesn’t just stop on those days.

I'm looking to do my weekly contracted 37 hours in four days. Working from home permanently makes it feel pretty achievable and I think a longer weekend will help with a better work life balance that seems to have become a blurry line in these times.

I don't do compressed hours, but I went down to a four day week at the start of 2020, have every Wed off. Downsides is obviously 80% pay and I probably do as much work as I did in 5 days in 4 (partly less faff, partly better productivity). Everyone knows I don't work Wednesdays so if they arrange any meetings, I don't attend (unless it's mega important). I much prefer the work life balance and only 2 days of work in a row is much easier to handle....

A few of us did compressed 37 hours in a four day week at a previous employer. Doing 5 days work in 4 meant we were sometimes too knackered to enjoy the day off.

I've been officially working a four day 30 hour week in my current role for 4-5 years. I'm still doing 37+ hours work, but they only pay me for 30 of them now. 🤣

My Dept Head actually works 4 days weeks and people work around that well; we have very well laid out procedures and policies so I'm pretty sure I'll get it agreed.

One of my senior scientists has recently gone to 4 day weeks but instead of 7.2 hour days/36 hour weeks (actually our 'official' hours are 0900-1730 for 3 days, 0900-1700 Thursday, and 0900-1630 Friday with hour lunch breaks) he does 4x8 hours so only is losing 1/9 of pay for a full day off.

I’ve worked with people who do 4 days not 5 and that can work well. It’s easy for people to remember that Sarah doesn’t work Fridays for instance. I think fortnightly will confuse people as mentioned above. Monthly could work I’d guess (Sarah doesn’t work the first 2 days of the month) whatever it is it needs to be easy to remember for others.

Some of the above did 4 long days and didn’t drop pay, some were on 80% pay. Those in 4 long days generally found it easier to manage as they know the hours they had to do, the 80%ers found it more difficult. In truth, both did the same amount of work...

I’d look at it but you need to define what your current hours are, what you’re moving too and be clear on how this is managed. If you can’t do that then you open yourself up to work on your day(s) off. If you’re not on set hours/days at the moment that makes it more difficult, though not impossible, to clarify.

It’s also up to you to be disciplined enough to manage your diary, to turn down meetings and to not work on your days off. Easier said than done.

I do a 9 day fortnight so do 10 days work in 9. It’s good work wise, by taking a half hour lunch and starting and finishing earlier. Second child went to school in August and had been looking forward to a free day for years then bloody covid intervened! Am looking to reduce hours in the future once the mortgage is paid off but am wary of doing 5 days work for 80% pay as others above allude to!

I used to be on a 4 day week. Best thing I ever did but circumstances changes.

Pay may be 80% gross but it works out better than that net depending on your tax rate.

if you have no fixed hours, then why even make it formal, it that works one way, it should work the other....

I do a similar thing on my shift pattern.
I do 4 x 12hrs nights first week
3 x 12hr days and 3 x 12nights second week
4 x12hr days third week
0 hrs week 4 🙃
I finish on Sunday evening have Monday to Sunday off then go back on Monday evening
Only get 2 weekends out of 4 though

I moved to a 4 day week contract a couple of years ago and actually work it the other way. I will often do slightly shorter days so I can do school run etc (normal expected day would be 8-5) and can flex my hours around bar 1 day which has fixed hours. I probably work more hours than I'm contracted for but it suits me.

My wife did compressed hours after our 2nd child and it didn't work for us as for 4 days all she had time for was work, eat sleep but the day off could work for you. She has a mixed academic/clinical role and the work ethic for academics to progress now does seem to be mad crazy hours. IF they will let you then trial it rather than agreeing a permanent change.

I have an agreement with work where I work my 37hours (really 45-50) Monday-Thursday and agree to have my phone on and check emails on Friday. It’s okay, but the reality is that with a 2hour cycle commute on 3 of those days, it’s 3 x 16 hour days and one 9 hour day...every week. Also, my job is not dissimilar to aspects of yours (research) and as such, I have students, staff, academics, committees, etc to deal with in addition to my day job. This spills over to the weekends as I’m too knackered to do anything about it Mon-Thur. I’ve e been doing this for 7 years...

I'm quite up for this line of thing although tricky in my job as it involves working off site with others. Combined with the organisation trying to align everyone's hours and us trying to make the most of daylight, there is a lot of TOIL planned in to get much the same although it has got a little more formalised than a sheet in the mess room now. Annualised would suit us better in the outdoors.

Student job when I was younger crammed a years work into 4 or 5 months at a marquee firm with 80-100 hour weeks. Would take me 2.5 months to match the yearly salaries of friends that went straight into regular ft jobs from college.

4*12 hour shift / 4 days off all year round

40 days holiday on top....
would never go 5 day week again!

if you have no fixed hours, then why even make it formal, it that works one way, it should work the other….

To a degree it does - if the weather was nice during the summer I was taking some Wednesday afternoons off as the remote teaching etc had been epic. Also means there is flexibility for doctors, hair cuts etc. However, as an individual I’m not good at flexing my time - once I’m at work, I’m there and don’t do a good job of leaving. Would set expectations for myself, and others, and mean they couldn’t time table teaching on my day off if it was formalised.

Our no fixed hours are nominally 37.5, but as academic staff we are auto enrolled out of the 48 hour per week max.

@daffy - hummm. You highlight my concern. I know those responsibilities aren’t just going to vanish! I have a large research contract that I’m supposed to work on 3 days per week and already that is impossible with everything else!

It all sounds good in my head but some of my concerns are certainly being highlighted. Strict structure needed. I have one colleague who holds v similar portfolio to me, and works 80% in 4-days. Going to speak with her this week.

I’ve done it, mostly would echo all said above.

I’d add tho to be clear it’s not “your day off” it’s “a day you don’t work” or outside your hours, whatever. Language is important, if people see it as “time off” they’ll assume you’re not busy and can do “just a quick thing” etc.

For me it was to help with childcare, so people knew it wasn’t that I “had Fridays off” but it was “IA looks after his son Fridays”.

May I humbly suggest that working to your contracted hours might be a good start - and the automatic enrollment to deny the 48 hr maximum limit is illegal ( or was !)

You have a PM (I think!)

TJ - the crazy world of academia means that most staff would be upset if the 48 hour limit did apply...!! It’s a culture with hundreds of years of history and results in things like Oxford Uni developing vaccines in double quick time. Not to be defended (and my generation is pushing back) but is universal.

Our supporting policies state “On the basis of advice from the Universities and Colleges Employers Association (UCEA) the following groups [including academic staff] of staff are considered to be exempt from all aspects of the [working time] Regulations except the provision for annual leave”.

I've worked compressed hours for the last 5 years. Contracted to work 37.5 hours as an NHS OT, I work aprrox 10 hours per day (Monday - Thursday) then have a 3 day weekend.
Works for me!

ashat - that is utter bollox. many of the protections cannot be contracted out of and it cannot be a condition of taking the job.

I'm astonished your union has not challenged that. You cannot opt out of the 11 hr rest period for example - there are exceptions and it can be breached under certain circumstances so long as you get compensatory rest but it cannot be contracted out of unless the job requires 24/7 attendence

Aside; when did we start using the title “associate professor” in the UK? That’s depressing.

I work aprrox 10 hours per day (Monday – Thursday) then have a 3 day weekend.
Works for me!

+1, don't get much time to do stuff during the week but the extra day off works for me. People tend not to contact me (always just slack messages) on Fridays and are apologetic if they do (they've usually just forgotten I'm not working, or just don't know - we're a largish company).

In the large multinational company I work for, it’s taken extremely seriously. People do not work or attend meetings on the day they are not working. Nor would anyone expect them to. If it’s an emergency or unavoidable (eg meeting with external regulators), then that time is always given back and everyone is very grateful that the person has put themselves out specifically.

When I was an academic I did not work Wednesdays for a year so I could provide childcare. Nobody cared and I ended up working evenings and weekends anyway.

In short, you can probably arrange it formally and/or ad hoc, but I doubt it will be respected. You’ll work the same hours anyway.

Aside; when did we start using the title “associate professor” in the UK? That’s depressing.

Last 5+ years. To try and fit better internationally. No one really knew what reader or senior lecturer actually meant.

I did a 9 day fortnight when FB jnr was born. A 7hr day (with little need to extend that) made it easy to make the time up.

My previous job was 40 hrs over Mon to Fri lunch- that was handy, as I was able to take jnr to his disability horse riding sessions.

New job is pretty full on so I doubt I will be able to drop to a reduced week as there is a lot of legacy crap to sort out. However it is stimulating unlike the old job which I think makes the difference (as well as the pay rise and Xmas bonus I got after being there for only 3 months).

At the company I work for, everyone is on either a 4 or 4.5 day week. I use my spare half day for volunteering work. I would need a pretty good incentive to move back to an employer with less flexibility on offer.

Over Lockdown ( March to about August) we were forced to do our 37 hours over 3 days, so the Company could save money on gas for the furnaces, electricity for the air compressors, etc. It was entirely a win situation for them, no benefits at all for us, forced on to 12 hour shifts with no monetary compensation, except for an hours pay (worked 3x12 hrs, got paid our contracted 37). Flexibility was required in these trying times, apparently.
Funny thing is, even though we couldnt go anywhere or do anything, after the initial tantrums, we actually quite enjoyed it, it was like having a week off every week, you could actually start and finish a job without having to hand over to someone who might misunderstand and bugger it up.
The result of all this flexibility was that the Company ripped out the gas furnaces and sent them to Germany at the earliest date they could, having had the gas savings, the electricity savings and the standard -rate labour .
Point Im trying to make is that, as long as its you calling the shots, go for it, but if its the employer demanding this or suggesting this, be very suspicious as to the motives behind it.

I’ve been an academic for 18 years or so and over the past six years I’ve been dropping hours from full time. I now only do 0.5 FTE for the Uni and do another day in a different job. Initially I wasn’t strict enough and just ended up doing more hours and getting paid less at Uni. I’m a lot more disciplined now and make sure expectations of my time are clarified in advance so that doesn’t happen. I also work a skewed year, so more hours at certain points and a lot less at others, interestingly that has made it a lot easier to manage, or maybe people’s expectations are more realistic. It’s hard to do but you need to plan ahead and be pretty hard nosed about commitments; I do more enjoyable stuff now too which is nice. You know your specific environment and demands, you just need to figure a way to set it up, good luck!

Yes, we have a Compressed Working Week in our large multinational and find it fantastic. It means that I dont use leave to do mundane jobs or appointments which is a huge advantage in the longer term. As above just work the expected hours to accrue the time then take every other Friday off. There has to be an element of paid like professionals so behave like professionals and it's all on trust but there are always elements who extract the urine. I'm generally pretty flexible during my working week to accommodate numerous different time zones (I work in technology r&d for oil operator) but will not even check email on my flex Friday. I find this needs to be enforced by myself otherwise other sites or countries could be working my flex and schedule meetings, I simply decline and the message lands eventually.

Wondering about going down to 90% but doing it in 4 days to give me Friday off each week to ride bikes, climb hills and explore other options like volunteering. Our contracts are odd in that we have ‘no fixed hours’ and also a stupid culture of endlessly working. Thankfully common sense has kicked in and I normally don’t work more than 45 hours per week.

The risk is you'll get paid 90% of your current salary (they'll like that bit!) but not everyone will respect the "I don't work Fridays" part and 90% of 45hrs is 40.5hrs which is still what most "contracts" would consider a full working week... having seen people do exactly what you suggest in other worlds, where they get paid less but after a few months end up still doing the same work I'd be careful. Surprised if a university doesn't have a policy on it though and if there wouldn't therefore be ways to manage that. If financially you could afford 80% I'd go for that as saving 10% of your working week doesn't sound like a great improvement to W-L balance to me. My own experience is people are more likely to get this where they show flexibility too - e.g. "I want every Friday off" may not be as easily accepted as "I'd like to work an average of 4 days per week, but I realise there are times of the year we are really busy so I could do some 5 days weeks, some 4 day weeks and some 3 day weeks".

A couple of observations...

Some people on compressed hours (e.g. four days in five) can lose a certain amount of respect if it becomes obvious they aren't actually doing the hours they're supposed to be.

Others on 80% can find it hard to get back up to 100% when they wish to.

I compressed to a 9-day fortnight from 2009-2012 when we had our first child and this worked really well, although I went back to non-compressed hours on changing jobs in 2012.

I ended 2019 having had an initially positive conversation about reducing my hours at my work (NHS, roughly equivalent to a professor in academia) and hoped 2020 would allow me to focus on some new priorities including caring responsibilities.

Unfortunately, I was turned down for what I felt were fairly tenuous reasons. I think that, as a man, I face more prejudices than a woman who would want to do the same. My experience is that it's really "normal" in my line of work for women to work part-time, but not men.

Of course 2020 had other ideas and I ended up being part of the CoVID response, so it probably wouldn't have happened anyway!!

I have done it two different ways in different academic posts. Your contract is your friend, it states a 35 hour working week, most uni's now offer flexible working to help their Athena Swan, and you want to take them up on the offer. You and I know there is an unhealthy obsession with Uni's to try to make you do more than your role (committees, supervision etc) and so do loads of extra hours, and there is an unhealthy working culture.

In Oz i was routinely working 7.30 /8- 18.00 5 days a week without any breaks. Then we had a baby and realised that if i kept those hours on 4 days a week, i was still doing plenty over my contracted hours. I went down to 4 days and it was amazing. I found by shortening my working week i would still do longer days, but i knew on Friday i wouldn't do a thing and could go for a ride, swim, beach etc.

When i moved back to the UK i wanted to keep that pattern and so got agreed it from day one, I also became a flexible working champion and joined a number of committees to help get support for others to do this...

I have now left academia but am working a 9 day fortnight and will likely go down to 4 days a week in a couple of months, as it is really beneficial for physical and mental wellbeing. My approach with HR is that i will work my 35 hours over 4 days on this working pattern, and i have met all of the criteria within my contract. In all honesty i find i'm more productive on a shorter week, as come friday i'm shattered and can't be arsed!

I'm also an academic - can't really speak generally as research areas, roles, institutions etc differ so much, but it wouldn't make much sense for me. It's a very polarising environment - on the one hand leading a research group takes huge commitment, mega-hours especially in the earlier stages. OP is absolutely correct that burnout is real and if we all want to continue to be inspired by our research (and writing grants, FFS) into our sixties, then we need to find balance.

But on the other hand most of us are extremely lucky in how flexible our schedules can be and how little we directly answer to anyone on a day to day basis. I could easily compress my working week right now if I felt like it - admittedly not to the formal extent of not working Fridays, say, but we are blessed with a lot of control on how we work that most people don't have. So a formal compression of schedule sounds like an unnecessary step to me.

The guy who does the lecture timetable would hate you, obviously. I think more serious concerns about being seen as a part-timer in a research intensive environment etc are probably less relevant now as society changes, would definitely be an issue for someone newly-appointed though.

I made Associate Professor at 33, and haven’t given myself room to breath

not to depress you, but perhaps

I made Associate Professor at 33, because [I] haven’t given myself room to breath

Formalizing working hours and part time arrangements still seems to be a big struggle in many places. And part-timers still often seem disproportionality disadvantaged when it comes to leave and pensions. That’s putting aside the personal or business pressure to squeeze a ‘full’ working week into whatever arrangement has been devised.

My own experience has been of informal arrangements to claw back excessive loss of non-work time. These have worked well, but can’t be depended on if things get awkward.

Everyone I know doing it has nothing negative to say. I am surprised people still say my contract is 40hrs but I do 50 actually. Just stop at 40, I’m done for the week, goodbye.

My wife works at an university and went down to 3 days. She has been doing it for over a year now and people still forget which are her working days even thought they are the same every week. The only real downside is that in reality it means she won’t get promoted again. She is quite happy with that but it’s something to consider

I work a mixture of 5 weeks standard 9 to 5 then 5 weeks of shift work that involves 10 hour days but still 37.5 hours per week. This is to facilitate the lab being open 7 days per week.

I've done variations on this for the past 20 years and I now can't stand the idea of working mon-fri 9-5.

There's been several opportunities for promotion that I've passed over (one closed today as it happens) because it would mean working 9-5. I'm not saying we couldn't use the money, but the time is far more important.

I do 80% and don't work Mondays. In my old job it was relatively straight forward as all my customers were internal. Automatic out of office and politely decline things arranged for Mondays.

My new job was supposed to be 5 days but covid meant reduced hours. Still not doing Mondays. It's a little harder to manage. I've had to attend the odd meeting and work a few Mondays but I get the time back either as a complete day off or finishing a bit early. It's been harder as I'm now working directly for external customers but I don't think many people notice if they get a response on Tuesday, not Monday.

I'm assertive about my hours. Previous job I was secure enough to just say know. My new job we bill the client by the hour so people understand the idea of not working for free.

My wife does 85% over 5 days in the civil service. Reasonably senior so occasionally has things she has to do and be flexible. Still get's flexi time though so logs it and manages it well, knowing when to say no to more work.

It's great. I'd really rather stay on 4 days. Fortunate in that we don't need the money. I haven't noticed any downsides.

I used to do it as part of a formal shift pattern. Two opposite shifts (each one never actually seeing the other) with handovers managed by Mon-Fri 9-5 managers.

We did Thursday - Saturday (8am - 8pm), Sunday off, Monday - Wednesday (8am - 8pm)

Still worked out at 37.5hrs a week but split over 3 x 12hr days. Week off was brilliant - you needed a day to recover so the Thursday following shift end was mostly dead time but then Friday - Wednesday was basically freedom! Also meant you got loads of holiday. Our actual allowance was "only" 18 days but using them carefully could result in 3 full weeks off for only 6 days usage. I managed long weekends of MTBing in Spain on a few occasions for no holiday time spent. Fly out Thursday afternoon, ride until Tuesday, flight home on Tuesday night.

It was done to run a chemical lab at full capacity 6 days a week (no night shifts, no Sunday work).

In my current (office) job, a colleague does a 4.5 day week and has Friday afternoon off, she just works the extra time during the Monday - Thursday part.