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As you may have guessed I have a company van. Personal use is expressly forbidden, to such a degree that trackers are installed to monitor usage.
My question is this, if I'm away for the night and want to go out of the hotel for dinner or say go to the cinema, am I right in assuming that HMRC would class this as personal use and tax me/the business if caught?
You're away with work, surely you can drive to eat? Otherwise you might die!!
If the cinema is next to the eating place, who would know or GAS?
I doubt a couple of miles either way is going flare up any issues.
Speak to your management about it?
Unless your company vehicle has space to take your personal vehicle with you, you’re going to have to use the company vehicle. Or get a cab and claim it back.
HMRC states insignificant private use is allowed, I’d argue that covers it or the fact you’re on company business away from home.
Subsistence & refreshments are valid uses of the vehicle: https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-travel
As said before, as long as the cinema is close-ish, who's to know?
When I've been away with a company vehicle, it was generally accepted you could use it to go out somewhere reasonably close for the evening.
As long as it's not a regular thing, HMRC aren't likely to be interested in the tax aspect. Strictly it will be personal use, but even HMRC aren't going to waste resources over a few miles when you're away from home.
The bigger issue is likely to be insurance should something happen, so speak to your manager/fleet manager.
I've always used all my vans for that purpose. Sometimes the digs are pretty far from somewhere to eat.
I’ve always used all my vans for that purpose. Sometimes the digs are pretty far from somewhere to eat
That, or the attached restaurant is full/terrible/gave you the shits/your colleague ripped the radiator off the wall when drunk or is a Burger King.
My company policy is that when staying away from home, reasonable use of the company van for meals etc is permitted.
I would say that the matter of tax is completely irrelevant and it's more a situation of remaining within company rules and not ending up with a warning/disciplinary.
I would say that the matter of tax is completely irrelevant and it’s more a situation of remaining within company rules and not ending up with a warning/disciplinary
And then you have to ask yourself if you want to work for a company that expects you to be under house arrest when working away from your home and family, in a generic hotel in an industrial estate.
Ask your finance/hr team whether they’d prefer you to use the van or submit taxi receipts.
There's a difference in going for food etc when you're away on works business and using it for a night sightseeing tour.
I always used my works van for that sort of thing if it seemed reasonable, i.e. not choosing somewhere I fancied in the next town and never thought anything of it.
Bigger issue is whether your companies insuramce will cover it. Also if your van is full of exxpensive stuff you don't want it breaking into(or even if its not the scrotes will still a lot of damage).
As with most of life rule 1 applies.
I have 16 engineers spread across the country, the vans have trackers, we only look at the logs if we're worried about someone (might have had an accident) or we are given a reason to, regular trawling through the logs is a waste of time and frankly disrespectful to my team.
If the company is questioning it, get a cab and charge it.
If HMRC is questioning it, tell them to go after the real crims:
Sounds like a question for your employer, though some good points made above as ammo should they get fussy about it.
we only look at the logs if we’re worried about someone (might have had an accident) or we are given a reason to, regular trawling through the logs is a waste of time and frankly disrespectful to my team.
A director at a company i used to work for got a slap on the wrist from HR, as not only did the trackers generate vehicle reports to management users, it also generated reports to HR about who was logged in and looking at it. He used to have it on a second screen so he could see where we were, what time we went for lunch, what time we arrived. etc etc.
HMRC won't care about the VAT on an insignificant amount of diesel. And last time I used a company van they never questioned it, all I had to do was keep two tallies, one of miles for the client that were billed to them at 45p, and one for other miles (e.g, commuting*, collecting equipment, personal trips for food etc).
Down to the company and their insurance though. Although as others have said, if they said no then I'd probably refuse to go on the trip!
*when doing it without the van wouldn't have worked out.
There’s a difference in going for food etc when you’re away on works business and using it for a night sightseeing tour.
No, there isn't because you're limited by the fact that you've only got a work van as transport and not your own car. I've used work vans to get to trail centres, friend's houses, been for a walk on Dartmoor, gone surfing, stopped in Dublin for a couple of hours on the way back from Belfast, all sorts. A colleague would visit every rugby ground close by. Another would visit National Trust properties. The alternative to this would have been to sit in drab, cheap hotels, often on industrial estates with no redeeming features. Are you expecting that employees don't do anything in the evenings, or whatever free time they have during the day?
He used to have it on a second screen so he could see where we were, what time we went for lunch, what time we arrived. etc etc.
Sounds familiar, my tracker mysteriously would never work, much to the annoyance of the chap who liked to watch it.