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Not allowing in 1.1m totally un-vetted people from a war zone is probably a good start
jambalaya - Member
This could well finish Merkel.
That woman might be politically wise but socially a stoopid woman. Yes, a stoopid woman with no realisation of her action that impacts on others. She might have done herself good but to the unfortunate who have to live a life in the society that is entirely different story.
If the people continue to keep her by voting her in again then they are stoopid-der ... 😯
oldnpastit - Member
Strengthens Trump's argument though that Something Must Be Done.
Maybe he's right?
Trump merely says things that are obvious need dealing with while others simply refused to acknowledge because of their political career.
I do not think he is that careless to be seen as wrong. 🙂
I vote for him even with that hairstyle.
Strengthens Trump's argument though that Something Must Be Done.Maybe he's right?
Oh dear.
German politicians trying to talk tough on deporting the attackers but the truth is they are screwed by the German constitution and Geneva convention. Its quite likley they cannot deport any Syrian at all no matter how serious the crime, where would they send them ? Anyone convicted of groping cannot be deported unless they receive a prison sentence of 1 or even 3 years (confusion in Germany about the period). Human rights asylum (ambulance) chasing lawyers will be having a field day.
Its anarchy, you can turn up illegally in Germany have arrived without travel autheorisation rewuired when entering the EU, commit a crime and there be no way of deporting you
[url= http://www.dw.com/en/how-easy-is-it-to-deport-refugees-out-of-germany/a-18966170 ]dw.com Deporting asylum seekers[/url]
It was not long ago she was peerless but the tensions over the asylum seekers was quite intense even before NYE. In a poll late last year less than 50% of Germans wanted her to stand again for Chancellor.
I was drinking in a hotel lobby in Lisbon when Merkle made the decision to let the migrants in. A bunch of Germans came in and I raised the subject (in a diplomatic way naturally as there were more of them). They said overall Germans liked her and saw her as a safe pair of hands. There is also the fact that Germans value continuity very highly.
There was also public support for keeping the borders open, as some kind of national absolution for the holocaust, which tortures some of the older Germans still.
Eastern Europe, by contrast, isn't having any of this. I think the Eastern European leaders are going to club together and effectively sabotage Europe's freedom of movement policy. The EU which Merkel tried to create will collapse and so will her career.
[quote=oldnpastit ]Strengthens Trump's argument though that Something Must Be Done.
Maybe he's right?
Trumps argument is not that something has to be done - no one is suggesting inaction - its that the somethign is to ban muslims from emigrating to the USA.
I am not sure of an easier radicalist recruitment toll than a racist US policy towards Muslims. He is wrong
Jesus Jamby more tabloid style nonsense from you You really could be a DM headline/column writer.
They sexually assaulted a female officer.It happened because they were horrible ****.
I very rarely find my self in the presence of the police, sometimes drunk and in the company of lightly clothed women.
And I never groped any of them. But in future if I do I shall blame the lack of a police presence.
This!
It's amazing how often people have spread these kind of fear-mongering 'end of our civilisation' stories throughout modern history, yet here we all are, by and large getting along fine. I'm not pretending there are no issues at all but some of the doom-mongering is ludicrous. It's like people are getting off on it in some weird way.
Bit like how people used to talk about the Jews and Jewish immigration really innit jambalaya? They're 'other', they don't fit in to our society, they don't share our values, they keep to themselves, etc etc
Strengthens Trump's argument though that Something Must Be Done.Maybe he's right?
Something, sure. Just not that!
its true that we used to ban the jews from our country...great happy days they were for which this nation can be proud.
Cromwell let them pay their way back in thereby allowing us to pander to good old stereotypes eh
Junkyard - lazarusits true that we used to ban the jews from our country...great happy days they were for which this nation can be proud.
Cromwell let them pay their way back in thereby allowing us to pander to good old stereotypes eh
Jews have been here since Henry VIII so what bat shite are you talking about? Everyone has to pay in those days but some just have to pay more than the others. What? You want fairness? Off with your head! (in those days). You want privileges then pay? What's so different nowadays? Waiting for hand outs? Do you think that's free? Someone still got to pay for you to get it free ... 🙄
grum - MemberIt's amazing how often people have spread these kind of fear-mongering 'end of our civilisation' stories throughout modern history, yet here we all are, by and large getting along fine. I'm not pretending there are no issues at all but some of the doom-mongering is ludicrous. It's like people are getting off on it in some weird way.
As usual a raise concern is a fear-mongering ... ya right ... you think civilization will collapse if we don't let them in? Or do you think your dear multi-culturalism will vanish over night?
Doom-mongering? You mean there should be no system of law to let everyone in because there is a war or fear of prosecution? There are many people facing this everyday all over the world why not let all in?
Queue up be processed rather than jump the queue like a pack of animals.
Question is why are this lot running while there are still those who stay behind with children and family ...
edit: I would let those families with children in (the ones who decide to stay due to dignity i.e. the ones showed on telly last night's BBC news), rather than these bunch of young men in any day.
badnewz - Member
It was not long ago she was peerless but the tensions over the asylum seekers was quite intense even before NYE. In a poll late last year less than 50% of Germans wanted her to stand again for Chancellor.
Good she should go ...
I was drinking in a hotel lobby in Lisbon when Merkle made the decision to let the migrants in. A bunch of Germans came in and I raised the subject (in a diplomatic way naturally as there were more of them). They said overall Germans liked her and saw her as a safe pair of hands. There is also the fact that Germans value continuity very highly.
Of course they like here because she can bully her way in EU and they know they are the one pulling the purse string.
There was also public support for keeping the borders open, as some kind of national absolution for the holocaust, which tortures some of the older Germans still.
Yes, the can stay guilty forever if they wish but their guilt should not be imposed on others ...
Chewkw....at last some sense! If someone knocks on your front door, you dont just let them in do you?? The same should apply for our borders. Get processed and then rebuild your life. If i was being shelled, i'd be glad to be safe and anything after that is a bonus.
Here's a question though, do we REALLY have an accepted multicultural society here in the UK?
Ferris-Beuller - Member
Here's a question though, do we REALLY have an accepted multicultural society here in the UK?
It's the inevitable consequences of the world, going by the PC nature, but to insert a big chunk of another society into another is like blood poisoning innit. You get the sudden shock of septicaemia ... 😯
Chewkw....at last some sense!
😆
Now that really did make me chuckle!!
grum - Member
Chewkw....at last some sense!
Now that really did make me chuckle!!
Glad that I have made people chuckle ... 😆
Collapse of civilization? That's a load of bat shite too innit!
... the Mongols are still around as are the Romans and the Mesopotamian and the etc ... 😛
chewkw claims to be an immigrant and sense from them is about as likely as good grammar from me.
Junkyard - lazarus
chewkw claims to be an immigrant and sense from them is about as likely as good grammar from me.
Glad I have made you chuckle too!
Economic immigrant who has been processed by the system (I have good ZM bureaucratic skill sets) to be precise.
😆
May be a repost but interesting reading.
DrJ, if you are reading this on your phone best turn away
Cologne Police have confirmed 18 of 31 suspects arrested are asylum seekers. Suspects where found with notes with the Arabic - German translations of the following choice phrases;
Nice breasts
I'd like to have sex with you
I'll kill you
Politicians keen to blame someone have forced the head of Cologne police to take early retirement.
They sacked him for editing a report to remove references to immigrants.
Junkyard
Trumps argument is not that something has to be done - no one is suggesting inaction - its that the somethign is to ban muslims from emigrating to the USA.
It is worse than even that. Trump would prevent families of Americans from coming across for a holiday if they were muslims.
What if during President Trumps leadership, former President Barak Obama fell gravely ill. His muslim family in Kenya from his paternal side would be banned from coming to see him.
Report on TF1 about Madaya in Syria where 40 000 are blocked in the town and starving to death (with enough footage of emaciated inhabitants to be credible) because Bachar won't send food despite a cease fire.
I can't blame Syrians for fleeing, and when a million flee a war zone it's no surprise when there are some dangerously nasty types among them. I know it's illegal, never going to happen etc. but expulsion as real possibility for any crime that merits a custodial sentence is perhaps the only threat they'd understand.
The guy who was shot yesterday in Paris was already banned from French soil following a conviction and France has been banned from transferring prisoners from Magreb who are not French nationals back to where they came from by the European court.
athgray - Member
Junkyard
Trumps argument is not that something has to be done - no one is suggesting inaction - its that the somethign is to ban muslims from emigrating to the USA.
Is that new or news? In China they used to require their citizen to have permits before traveling between different regions ...
It is worse than even that. Trump would prevent families of Americans from coming across for a holiday if they were muslims.
Really? Is that new too? Our Muslamic govt banned all people from visiting their ancestral mother/fatherland of China and would face prosecution or kick out of the country if they visit ... plenty never seen their dead relatives etc.
What if during President Trumps leadership, former President Barak Obama fell gravely ill. His muslim family in Kenya from his paternal side would be banned from coming to see him.
That is a what if scenario so not really big deal and he should consider himself lucky he is not from Israel coz people from my region are banned (still is) from visiting Israel ... in their passport Israel is prohibited.
Ya right ...
🙄
Kin muslims..fruitcakes.
Trumps argument is not that something has to be done - no one is suggesting inaction - its that the somethign is to ban muslims from emigrating to the USA.
Thats simply not true - Trump made it clear multiple times that he was proposing a [u]temporary[/u] ban while they assessed what to do, or as he put it "until our countries representatives can figure out what the hell is going on"
ninfan
Trumps 'temporary' is the length of time it will takes him to "figure out what is going"!
Very vague and no mention of strategy to acheive this. Could be a while I think
Chewk
China requiring citizens to get permits for travel between regions is not the same as a blanket ban on muslim travel. It is far easier to decide who is a Chinese citizen over who is a muslim.
Could be a while I think
see, pure speculation
athgray - Member
Chewk
China requiring citizens to get permits for travel between regions is not the same as a blanket ban on muslim travel. It is far easier to decide who is a Chinese citizen over who is a muslim.
You do know there are many Chinese Muslamic population in China don't you? Still is today ...
I assume you also know that Islam spread to S.E.Asia by the Chinese don't you?
😛
Well done chewk, you got the rise.
That woman might be politically wise but socially a stoopid woman.
Why do you feel the need to bring gender into it? You could have left it as her being socially stoopid [sic] but no, it's because she's a woman as well.
chewkYou do know there are many Chinese Muslamic population in China don't you? Still is today ...
I assume you also know that Islam spread to S.E.Asia by the Chinese don't you?
Do you not mean Islamic population?
Yes I am aware of China's significant muslim population. Every country in the world has at least a muslim minority population, however you are missing my point.
It is possible to place restrictions on travel by citizenship, quite another to place restrictions by religion.
ok ninfan, I might speculate on the duration of the ban. Can you speculate on how to enforce the ban?
squirrelking - Member
That woman might be politically wise but socially a stoopid woman.
Why do you feel the need to bring gender into it? You could have left it as her being socially stoopid [sic] but no, it's because she's a woman as well.
Arrghhh ... just as a matter of speech like saying "That woman!" (I actually learned this from an old female secretary when she was pissed off with the female manager ... they hate each other btw ... she usually referred to the manager as "that woman!" when talking to me ... so funny. ) I am not referring to all women ... just Merkel.
athgray - Member
Do you not mean Islamic population?
Yes, me mates are Chinese muslims so they look like all Chinese.
Yes I am aware of China's significant muslim population. Every country in the world has at least a muslim minority population, however you are missing my point.
OK, I thought did not know but they are not always minority.
It is possible to place restrictions on travel by citizenship, quite another to place restrictions by religion.
Yes, absolutely and purely based on religion. I am willing to bet all my bikes for your precious tablet if you have one. Israel is banned because of their belief ... we ban Israel as a country and belief etc ...
The Yanks wouldn't know whether to let me in or not. There is no mention of my religion or lack of on any official document, France being a secular state and all that. My passport, birth certificate and marriage certificate are all devoid of any religious reference.
Edukator - Troll
The Yanks wouldn't know whether to let me in or not. There is no mention of my religion or lack of on any official document, France being a secular state and all that. My passport, birth certificate and marriage certificate are all devoid of any religious reference.
Pork crackling test ... 😆
If you eat you pass ... if you don't you are banned.
For vegan you hold the animal skin to ransom by threatening to beat the leather shoe and if the person reacts s/he is a vegan, if not s/he should go for the pork crackling test ...
😆
edit: they can ask you to declare ... if you refuse they ban you. If you lie you get ban for 10 years or forever.
edit edit: did I say I like pork crackling me ...
The stable Europe of the past few decades has run it's course. With Muslims creating so many problems on such a regular basis and the whole scenario being enabled by thick lefty politicians in power, then it's just a matter of time before a proper public backlash occurs. Merkel should be held to blame for this.
Edukator
The Yanks wouldn't know whether to let me in or not. There is no mention of my religion or lack of on any official document, France being a secular state and all that. My passport, birth certificate and marriage certificate are all devoid of any religious reference.
As far as I can tell a passport will contain all the info Trump needs to decide if you are a muslim. Name and photograph. Job done.
That is about all he has to go on although he could go on appearance and facebook background check.
I can imagine American intelligence sifting social media,
"Madjid Hussain was tagged with Sadiq Khan at London Central Mosque 16:13pm Friday 08th Jan."
As far as I can tell a passport will contain all the info Trump needs to decide if you are a muslim. Name and photograph. Job done.
Well they're not waiting for President Trump, they're already preventing Muslims from visiting Disneyland.
DrJ
Well they're not waiting for President Trump, they're already preventing Muslims from visiting Disneyland.
Is this reference to the family that were refused entry from the UK for a holiday to Disneyland?
If so I agree this appears to be a shameful case. It is a big step up to becoming national policy, which Trump is calling for.
the bees
The stable Europe of the past few decades has run it's course. With Muslims creating so many problems on such a regular basis and the whole scenario being enabled by thick lefty politicians in power, then it's just a matter of time before a proper public backlash occurs. Merkel should be held to blame for this.
The largest challenges Europe has faced in the past 20-30 years have far from being the fault of muslims.
The Balkans war, the economic crash, terrorism(far from being the sole preserve of Islam). I feel Europe has never been more stable than it is now.
I suppose being out of it would allow people to turn a blind eye. Boatloads of people turning up at Greece or Italy can be someone else's problem.
terrorism(far from being the sole preserve of Islam)
athgray, really ? Enlighten me. Who is actually carrying out all of this terrorism if not Muslims?
athgray - Member
The largest challenges Europe has faced in the past 20-30 years have far from being the fault of muslims.
I hope next time when you enter the forest (assuming you like camping) you see firewood unless you are blind. 🙄
Trolls are obvious and they live under the bridge ...
The Balkans war, the economic crash, terrorism(far from being the sole preserve of Islam). I feel Europe has never been more stable than it is now.
Ya, might as well say the earth is round. Innit! 😯
thebees
terrorism(far from being the sole preserve of Islam)
athgray, really ? Enlighten me. Who is actually carrying out all of this terrorism if not Muslims?
If you quote me correctly I talk of terrorism in Europe over the past 20-30 years.
Omagh,Manchester,Canary Wharf, Barcelona(1987,2000), Vitoria (2000) Madrid (2001,2002), Oslo (2011).
These are just a few of many. I bet you only remember the muslim ones. 😉
terrorism(far from being the sole preserve of Islam)
athgray, really ? Enlighten me. Who is actually carrying out all of this terrorism if not Muslims?
There's loads of terrorism in America carried out by christian/right-wing nut jobs - many more incidents than Islamic terrorism (though much less effective in terms of body counts). Christians massacre people in Nigeria, there's Buddhist terrorists. The Muslims (ISIS) have got the best social media strategy though.
grum
There's loads of terrorism in America carried out by christian/right-wing nut jobs - many more incidents than Islamic terrorism (though much less effective in terms of body counts). Christians massacre people in Nigeria, there's Buddhist terrorists. The Muslims (ISIS) have got the best social media strategy though.
grum, I was specific regarding Europe, however you do raise a valid point. Social media makes the world a small place, and terrorists that use Islam to justify their action have probably hit the upsurge of this phenomenon. I reckon the likes of Timothy McVeigh and David Koresh could have gained a lot of support if social media existed then.
http://womanstats.org/newmapspage.html
Thought I'd throw this in, just to show how shit things can be for women outside the western world and how we absolutely have an empirically better culture than most of the rest of the world.
I think that it's about time that the west started being less embarrassed of itself and it's colonial past - and become more vocal in voicing and pushing it's cultural ideals.
Tom_1987
Thought I'd throw this in, just to show how shit things can be for women outside the western world and how we absolutely have an empirically better culture than most of the rest of the world.I think that it's about time that the west started being less embarrassed of itself and it's colonial past - and become more vocal in voicing and pushing it's cultural ideals.
By the Western world do you mean Europe and North America? If not please clarify.
I think that it's about time that the west started being less embarrassed of itself and it's colonial past - and become more vocal in voicing and pushing it's cultural ideals.
How do you suggest we do this? Invading/bombing countries perhaps?
Those stats you posted are pretty shocking and I won't disagree that they do show that western societies are in many ways more advanced than others - however, you think it's really all about culture?
I also think you're trolling a bit here TBH.
We could start by refusing to compromise the freedom and equality that we all enjoy and speaking out against those who would try and do so.
I'd be happy to see religious courts outlawed, zero tolerance toward the promotion of racist and homophobic acts, the mutilation of children and the different treatment of the sexes in so called 'faith' schools.
I'd be happy to see religious courts outlawed, zero tolerance toward the promotion of racist and homophobic acts, the mutilation of children and the different treatment of the sexes in so called 'faith' schools.
Yup no problem with any of that, as long as we're not just picking on the muslims.
Pitiful lefty logic being thrown about here. Using IRA bombings as an example of non-muslim terrorist activity just shows the strength of your argument. Get a spine and address the real problem.
How do you suggest we do this? Invading/bombing countries perhaps?
That's a bit of a stretch mate?
different treatment of the sexes in so called 'faith' schools.
Or outlaw them altogether?
If you can point out one single example of Islamophobia in anything I have ever posted on this forum, please do so.
Otherwise, I resent the implication, tbh.
Attempting to promote genuine social democracy is not racist.
It's the exact opposite.
I've no time for 'cultural differences' which undermine the protection we offer to the vulnerable, whatever faith, colour or sexuality they happen to be.
Aimed at me, rusty?
As for thebees, the example of Ni terrorism is as good as any (I can't imagine why this would not be a valid example), and the balkans were certainly related to islam (if not in an extremist sense).
No wrecker, of course not.
No idea where that came from.
If it was aimed at anyone in particular I would say so.
I'm just stating what I believe.
I said the same thing on pages 2 & 3. I really should stop repeating myself.
🙂
The problem I have is that people seem to throw non western beliefs towards the religion of Islam. Tom_W1987's maps are supposed to show the West as better than the rest however I reckon it is put forward as an anti muslim rant.
From the maps I see that sub Saharan Africa, China, India and South America do not do so well from our 'Western' point of view.
No wrecker, of course not.
Cool 😀
Well I'll say it; I'd like to see any educational facility based on religion barred.
A recent visit to NI left me amazed that their schools are still split among sectarian lines. The prod school my cousins attended played rugby (soccer wasn't allowed!!!) I was honestly gobsmacked until someone pointed out that England has Catholic, christian and muslim schools.
Education should be religion free. Space can be made for observance (such a the exams thing), otherwise if it doesn't teach facts; it has no place.
wrecker - Member
No wrecker, of course not.Cool
Well I'll say it; I'd like to see any educational facility based on religion barred.
A recent visit to NI left me amazed that their schools are still split among sectarian lines. The prod school my cousins attended played rugby (soccer wasn't allowed!!!) I was honestly gobsmacked until someone pointed out that England has Catholic, christian and muslim schools.
Soccer presumably not allowed since it's too working class. Nothing to do with religion.
I don't think so jimjam. It's not a private school, and the area is the same one that the local catholic school recruit from. It's certainly not class based.
If you can point out one single example of Islamophobia in anything I have ever posted on this forum, please do so.Otherwise, I resent the implication, tbh.
Attempting to promote genuine social democracy is not racist.
It's the exact opposite.I've no time for 'cultural differences' which undermine the protection we offer to the vulnerable, whatever faith, colour or sexuality they happen to be.
I wasn't suggesting Islamophobia on your part, just on the part of society in general.
That's a bit of a stretch mate?
I was just suggesting that our claims of cultural superiority are somewhat undermined by repeated wars/invasions that are clearly motivated by desire to control resources.
Nothing will happen, I'm afraid. And the most vulnerable in our society will be the ones who suffer.
This from page one, I have younger family in Halifax and they have grown up with attacks from Muslims, thankfully we've managed to get them out now.
May I ask the readers to reject the view that sees sexist acts as always being a response to being brought up in a Muslim society? Does you agree that such an approach risks infantilising the molesters and treating them like children, when the truth is that they are adults who are entirely responsible for what they do? No one forces them to molest innocent people in Cologne. Unless we are clear about that, we will fail even to understand the threat we face, let alone confront it and ultimately overcome it.
DrJ - you are fired.
Very good that
I don't think anyone has done, have they?
If the Germans prosecute someone, they will be prosecuted for their actions, not their beliefs.
Grum.
You can still strive for and believe in equality and democracy without wishing to kill those who disagree and stealing their resources.
Millions of us marched for exactly that principal before Tony's first little jaunt.
Pitiful lefty logic being thrown about here. Using IRA bombings as an example of non-muslim terrorist activity
Ooh another opportunity to post this....
In response to dr j last comments.
You have to consider there religion if you wish to understand why they feel it is ok to treat woman like this.
In Syria do the woman cover up everything bar there face and hands, are they taught to cover up and the men taught that women should cover up, if so are they also taught that it is also ok for woman to not cover up if they wish without it in any way reflecting poorly on them, there virtue or them not being good Muslims or indeed good in general.Would these men tolerate and treat with respect woman in Syria if the were seen walking out dressed as we commonly see women dressed when on a night out in the west.
And when these men find them self in a foreign country do you expect them to abandon the beliefs they are taught from birth with regards to how woman should act which is to guard their modesty and hide there [u]ornaments[/u]
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khim?r over their breasts and not display their beauty except to their husband, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their (Muslim) women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. (Quran 24:31)
In response to dr j last comments.
You have to consider there religion if you wish to understand why they feel it is ok to treat woman like this.
With respect, chip, that was sort of my point, as mt understood.
Glad we cleared that up.
219. They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning "alcoholic drink" and "gambling". Say: "In them is a great damage, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." ...So the first rule was: (Regarding alcohol : there is a damage, and a benefit, but the damage is much greater).
** Then Allah sent another verse, making drinking alcohol more strict (4:43):
43. O you who believe! Approach not As-Salat (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter, .....So the second rule was: (Never go to Salat (that is Islamic prayer) while you are drunk, because you have to perfectly understand what you are saying).
*** Finally, came the ultimate forbidding of drinking alcohol (5:90):
90. O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, Al-Ansab , and Al-Azlam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitan's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.In Arabic, the word (avoid), means (never come even near), so it means (strictly forbidden).
Quran 5:38]The Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) said:
“The hand (of the thief) should be cut off for (the theft of) a quarter of a Dinar or more.” [Al-Bukhari]
The Prophet sallallaahu
alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) cursed the thief because he is a corrupt element in society, and if he is left unpunished, his corruption will spread and infect the body of the Ummah (Muslim community). He sallallaahualayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention )
Chips, what a load of bollocks. The reports also stated that these men were drunk and high on cannabis as well as stealing from their victims.
Is a good Muslim allowed to cherry pick what's of the Quran they follow or is bugger all to do with religion and these gangs had decided to shit all over the hospitality of their host nation and do as they please regardless of laws, religion or the protest of their victims. Maybe the German authorities should deal with these gangs as per Quran and chop their hands off which would not only stop them stealing again but stop further sexual assaults too.
And when these men find them self in a foreign country do you expect them to abandon the beliefs they are taught from birth with regards to how woman should act which is to guard their modesty and hide there ornaments
So if I understand you correctly (and a similar point to Dr J has made) we hold them to lower standards because we assume their criminal acts are beyond their control. Isnt that racist?
It isn't just the attitude to Western women among some of the refugees which is an issue.
Near where I live a group of Libyans went on a sexual rampage, raping a man as well as a woman in Cambridge. I thought at the time the events were under-reported in the press and many people who live locally haven't even heard about them.
How do you suggest we do this? Invading/bombing countries perhaps?Those stats you posted are pretty shocking and I won't disagree that they do show that western societies are in many ways more advanced than others - however, you think it's really all about culture?
I also think you're trolling a bit here TBH.
It depends, I guess it would be interesting to control for economic status and gender ratio disparities.
I was just suggesting that our claims of cultural superiority are somewhat undermined by repeated wars/invasions that are clearly motivated by desire to control resources.
One war (maybe two if you count gulf war 1 and two as separately), that can tenuously be linked with oil. I believe all of the other invasions we've done since 82 have been police actions/peace keeping. Never mind that the demonstrations that occurred against the war have overshadowed every other major demonstration since and that half the country were against the war.
Chips, what a load of bollocks. The reports also stated that these men were drunk and high on cannabis as well as stealing from their victims.
Is a good Muslim allowed to cherry pick what's of the Quran they follow or is bugger all to do with religion and these gangs had decided to shit all over the hospitality of their host nation and do as they please regardless of laws, religion or the protest of their victims. Maybe the German authorities should deal with these gangs as per Quran and chop their hands off which would not only stop them stealing again but stop further sexual assaults too.
Actually, that's quite often what they do. I know a few lads who drink, who still want good muslim women. I guess it has nothing to do with being devoutly religious itself, as you are right in that case. It does seem to have something to do with the countries general culture though.
So if I understand you correctly (and a similar point to Dr J has made) we hold them to lower standards because we assume their criminal acts are beyond their control. Isnt that racist?
You don't understand me correctly.
Chips, what a load of bollocks. The reports also stated that these men were drunk and high on cannabis as well as stealing from their victims.
Is a good Muslim allowed to cherry pick what's of the Quran they follow or is bugger all to do with religion and these gangs had decided to shit all over the hospitality of their host nation and do as they please regardless of laws, religion or the protest of their victims. Maybe the German authorities should deal with these gangs as per Quran and chop their hands off which would not only stop them stealing again but stop further sexual assaults too.
I did not say they were good Muslims, if they were I would still expect them to treat people with respect or at the very least to just not associate themselves with people who they consider to fly in the face of there beliefs.
Like i said before these are horrible ****s, and the worst kind of horrible ****s religious horrible ****s, as they feel justified in doing what thy do.
A religious person picking and choosing what parts of their religion suits them best, who'd have thunk it.
And as Tom said I know many religious people who despite not sticking to the rules themselves still expect it of those around them.
It does seem to have something to do with the countries general culture though.
This is much more important than the religion imo. Islam is a part of the culture, but you can find pretty bonkers stuff in any religious texts. Lots of these guys will have grown up in a culture where it's OK to treat women this way. Yes, they're adults, and responsible for their actions, but deep-seated beliefs like this take some changing, especially if you're not the thinking type.
It's chicken and egg - what comes first, the religion or the culture?
I think the religion creates the culture for the most part, but there are many other factors which also have an influence.
@grum you are quite right there are extreme views and activity within the US but to try and put those on a similar scale to fhe threat we face from radical Islam makes no sense, it's say 99 vs 1 in terms of threat severity. The threat in the US has to date been as much against Christians like the Church prayer group massacre.
I see Merkel is saying that Germany need to do more to change its laws to allow asylum seeking sex offenders to be deported (currently it would be virtually impossible to deport any Syrian and no one who is sentenced to less than 3 years). Wouldn't it have been smarter to have figured this out before ?
I see Merkel is saying that Germany need to do more to change its laws to allow asylum seeking sex offenders to be deported (currently it would be virtually impossible to deport any Syrian and no one who is sentenced to less than 3 years). Wouldn't it have been smarter to have figured this out before ?
This is how it starts! They will all be in concentration camps before the end of the year!
She is trying to cover herself, when she caused the problem in the first place (well it's not all her fault, as Germany didn't decide to invade Iraq and destabalise the whole region).
@jambalaya - American law enforcement consider the 'sovereign citizen' movement a much greater threat to national security than they do Islamic terrorism. Look it up. I'm sure you know better as usual though. As I said there have been far more non-Muslim terror attacks in America than Muslim ones, but the body count is higher from the Muslim ones.
Tom trying to claim that only one of the middle eastern conflicts is 'tenuously' linked to oil is either more trolling or naivety to the point of idiocy. Alan Greenspan admitted Iraq was about oil, and Syria is of great strategic interest in terms of gas pipelines etc. If as a country we are supposedly 'broke' you really think we'd be spending millions on bombing etc if there wasn't something in it for us?
It's all the Germans fault.
I blame Kaiser Wilhem II.
If he hadn't challenged the British Naval Supremacy which to led to a naval arms race, Churchill wouldn't have made the decision to convert the Royal Navy to run on oil rather than coal. Which in turn led to the division of the Middle East along straight, convenient lines and the creation of the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.
The rest is history.
@grum, I imagine US law enforcement do consider "sovereign citizens" a greater risk as they've always backed their border control to keep out the wrong sort. They did get that spectacularly wrong with 9/11 mind you.
IMO Iraq war was about finishing the job after Gulf War 1 and the fact that Hussein tried to assasinate Bush senior on a visit to Kuwait. See "Against all Enemies"
The US is now self sufficient in oil with fracking, they know the Saudis have to keep pumping to keep their country afloat economically. Iran is back producing. All this is why oil is at $35 not $110. Overall they really don't care that much.
I cant believe people are saying it didn't happen and its just racism.
it obviously did (too many unconnected witnesses) and what did they expect when hey let in a million manly young, unattached, men. from a culture that is pretty misogynistic compared to northern Europe.
Sadly Germany's generosity will cost it a lot. Paying Lebanon and Turkey (for example) to look after refugees would be much better.