[Closed] Cologne Mass Sex Attacks

I wouldnt go so far as terrorism per say. That being said, you have a large group of people that are not integrated into the local society that have been unregulated for considerable time it then becomes an understandable consequence that disorder will arise.... In this case the sexual attacks.

So, what does the infinite wisdom of the singletrack hive mind make of this story?

On the one hand the media portrayals remind me of the kinds of 1800s-early 1900's scare stories of black rapists, which makes me uneasy.

On the other hand, I also dislike the seemingly inherent misogyny of religion and can't help but smirk at a certain section of the left who seemed to be shocked that this has happened.

I also have a slight, completely unfounded suspicion that this is a new form of terrorism.

*circumcision aside

I don't want to see other minorities tarred with this. Plenty of demographics haven't been properly integrated in the past, east-asians, indians, africans - most crime in these communities can historically be linked to socioeconomic issues.

This just seems different to me.

I dont think any religion encourages or approves or encourages any of of its adherents to commit sexual assault.*

That depends on the interpretation, as usual.

Maybe they should've tried a different aftershave?

By integrated I mean along the lines of groups relocating to a place and settling in and developing an affinity with it that they then call home and so respect it and the people . (which is slightly different to whether the existing populous accept them). if it is migrant groups causing the issues in Germany then there isn't likely to be that respect

it certainly smells like a scare story to help us remember who the demons/baddies are

So you don't think it happened?

I dont think any religion encourages or approves or encourages any of of its adherents to commit sexual assault.*

Islam is misogamist. It may not approve or encourage sexual assault but it hardly encourages any equality between the sexes.

Do you guys think that the dream of an integrated, socially stable and progressive Europe can survive the next decade? Or has it all been pissed up the wall?

I dont think any religion encourages or approves or encourages any of of its adherents to commit sexual assault.*

Though some do expect women to cover themselves up because, well, men just can't be expected to control their lust...

I'm surprised the UK media has taken so long to release this, I heard about this in early Dec from my aunt who had just returned from a business trip to Germany; she speaks German fluently and told me of numerous conversations with people over there that told the same story. Apparently Sweden is also experiencing the same.

it certainly smells like a scare story to help us remember who the demons/baddies are

it will certainly create fear you need to ask yourself who has benefited from this and will use it to serve their agenda?

JY, couldn't agree more, my thoughts exactly both now and when I first heard of it a month ago.

So you don't think it happened?

Islam is misogamist. It may not approve or encourage sexual assault but it hardly encourages any equality between the sexes.

Why then, is even the holier than thou Guardian peddling the story? Surely if they are, some of the story has been corroborated by decent journalists on the ground?

I'm really not sure what to make of it and why our media have just latched on to it, which gives me cause to be suspicious of the incident like JY.

Keep it reasonable guys, all of you usually can have some interesting and valid input - political leanings can discussed in a friendly manner. 🙂 I'm tired of polarized politics right now.

I'm surprised the UK media has taken so long to release this, I heard about this in early Dec from my aunt who had just returned from a business trip to Germany

Your aunt, the psychic, presumably, telling you in early December about an incident which (allegedly) occurred at the end of December?

I was accepting the stories largely at face value as being true, but since people were apparently reporting them in advance of them occurring, I think I might just review my thinking on that..

Cha talkin' bout?

Never heard of anything yet, what exactly is all the fuss?

Group Sex, Single Sex, Multiple Attacks, Single Attacks? Wot?

I can't help but see an incredibly bleak future for Europe right now

As for the Cologne attacks, sexual assault is a nasty crime, but it sounds like the police were caught on the hop and didn't realise what was going on until it was too late. The perpetrators are unlikely to get away with that again, and I don't really envisage a future of unchallenged mass sexual assault in public places.

I'm also pretty sure that "routine" day to day sexual assault by non immigrant, non Muslim Europeans easily dwarfs this particular incident. Does that make you fear for the future of Europe?

it certainly smells like a scare story to help us remember who the demons/baddies are

Having only just heard about this today, my wife was just speaking to a friend who lives just outside Cologne. She was out on New Years eve with her sister, boyfriends and other friends. She says that they'd got outside the station that groups of immigrant men tried to repeatedly seperate the men from their group trying to provoke fights by spitting on them, pushing and punching mainly the men. She was really scared and started crying recounting what happened. She thinks they would have been sexually assualted too if they had managed to actually separate them. As it was most of the men in their group were a bit battered and bruised. They reported it to the police who didn't seem too concerned at the time just taking their details but are now asking them to give statements after they were interviewed by the local press.

I can't help but see an incredibly bleak future for Europe right now.

+

Keep it reasonable guys, all of you usually can have some interesting and valid input - political leanings can discussed in a friendly manner. I'm tired of polarized politics right now.

😐

Craig, just off the phone with a colleague who was there as well. Had gone home for Christmas and then NYE with uni friends in Cologne.

Same experience. She sounded shaken even now when describing it.

She, however, didn't mention immigration. Just that they were 'North African looking'.

@edlong: My point is, if you continue to read my post, you'll understand that I too have a sceptisism. Pygmalion effect? The story was obviously being circulated in Germany for quite sometime before anything, allegedly' happens...

Merkel is at an all time low in popularity with the voting German populous, think Greece and immigration. IIRC, a general election is due within a year or so too and she wants another term. Spin is used by all of the political and industrial powers that be and is quite a possibility with this too. At the expense of a few pawns.

I'm also pretty sure that "routine" day to day sexual assault by non immigrant, non Muslim Europeans easily dwarfs this particular incident.

Now now compare like with like. I'm sure the total non immigrant number of sexual assult.s are higher but it is the fact that this seems to be a mass and organised sexual assault That is the issue.

Is the mayor of Cologne a regular on here?

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mayor-of-cologne-says-women-should-have-code-of-conduct-to-prevent-future-assault-a6798186.html ]Victim blaming at it's best.[/url]

I don't know why I read these posts - when do we get to "well those women shouldn't have been out alone they deserved it" ? Given that we started at "women are making this up to persecute minorities".

I heard an interview with the Mayor of Cologne, who was talking about investigations and prosecutions so if there is evidence they will take it to trial. If it is mass hallucinations or as we seem to be back in the Victorian era "the vapours" that will become clear.

I know the Germans aren't as mad on CCTV as the UK but you would think there would be some in these very public places, with any luck some facts will be applied.

And just for Jivehoney who I am sure will be along soon, yes, it does make me think.

How's this for well thought out? http://fluechtlinge-mitnehmen.de

[IMG] [/IMG]

[IMG] [/IMG]

What could possibly go wrong?

Though some do expect women to cover themselves up because, well, men just can't be expected to control their lust...

Indeed. And object to a Maxxis calendar for the same reason.

CFH, The way she was saying how they had tried to seperate them was organised as they created a wall for you push through then crowded them as tried to get through getting more aggressive trying physically push into their group to break them up. After finding the police who weren't that far away they ordered taxis and waited in coffee shop for over an hour until they arrived and straight back home.

How many of you have taken a blonde women to a Islamic or African country?

I took my wife and she made me promise to never take her out of Europe again because of the sexual harassment of the male population of said African and middle eastern males.

It is like a sugar crave or craze person(s) entering or already in a well stocked candy store innit. Stuff their face with all the sugar or in this case grab and grope whatever they can ... innit! 🙄

Or

It is like putting a pack of hungry timber wolves in the Welsh valley innit! 😯

Again the technique is the "same" as Mass Swamping the system ...

Told you I see them coming.

wicki

How many of you have taken a blonde women to a Islamic or African country?

I've tried several times but the border police keep searching my boot.

Also from what I have seen the majority of the recent mass immigration has been of single young men.
So now you have an mass immigration population of mainly young men which can not be healthy.

Do you guys think that the dream of an integrated, socially stable and progressive Europe can survive the next decade?

I think Europe is facing some dark days. The fertility rate among its native populations has been below replacement levels for a long time. The economy seems permanently stuck in recession in the south. The migration crisis will most likely lead to a return to politically left or right extreme parties, resulting in the rise of ethno-nationalism and the collapse of the union.

Anyone rememver the euphoria of 1989 and the collapse of the Berlin Wall? Seems a different age now.

Good gosh. From the sound of this thread it's dark skinned people that are the ones prone to mass sexual assults. Odd that mass (or none mass) sexual assults on none whites never/barley get's a look'in by the media (or even this forum) yet these do happen.

Sexual assault by any race or gender is wrong. As for intergration by those dark skinned people (rolls eyes) That pretty much works both ways. People can be full blown banjo players, some feel it's safer not to have to move next door to Mr and Mrs Smith some do. Some people don't want to have to deal with a the sterotype horse muck that comes to living in a new area and some people are stuck in certain areas not out of choice.

Some people regardless of race or sex are just total bell'ends

chip - Member

Also from what I have seen the majority of the recent mass immigration has been of single young men.
So now you have an mass immigration population of mainly young men which can not be healthy.

Really? You don't say! Not healthy? Are you sure? 😆

Oh no you need to publish scientific papers in the peer reviewed journals to proof your point otherwise you are the problem according to the lefties ... not the imbalance ... 😯

Ya, I wonder how's China is doing nowadays ... 😛

From the sound of this thread it's dark skinned people that are the ones prone to mass sexual assults.

Well, it is a thread about mass assaults by people who were apparently "North African looking". What did you expect? It's by no means to say that there's some norm that says "dark skinned people that are the ones prone to mass sexual assults".

The problem is no-one will recognise there is a problem. Or they will mislabel it as our problem (we are all racists after all).
Malmo in Sweden has had this problem for years but nobody cares to talk about it.
And does anyone remember Rochdale?
Nothing will happen, I'm afraid. And the most vulnerable in our society will be the ones who suffer.

Some people regardless of race or sex are just total bell'ends

sadly oh so true, strangely those who say theyre not racist seem to label non whites as sexual predetors

Do you guys think that the dream of an integrated, socially stable and progressive Europe can survive the next decade?

Yes. And not just that it can, but that it will.

However, this will come at the cost of substantial government investment in integrating existing alienated immigrant communities and the limiting of further immigration from outside the global north.

These young men did not leave there wife's and girlfriends back at their flat so they could go out on mass to assult woman. It has nothing to do with there skin colour. If there is an influx of young men who culturally have little respect for women let alone woman of a different faith into a situation where they have very few woman in there own cultural communities this is going to happen and HAS happened.

It's not racism to report it.
Of course there are lots of white indigenous sex criminals, but most act alone or in small groups in secret. Its the fact so many men on mass did this openly in public that makes this so worrying.
They don't seem to believe what they are doing is wrong.

badnewz - Member

The problem is no-one will recognise there is a problem. Or they will mislabel it as our problem (we are all racists after all).
Malmo in Sweden has had this problem for years but nobody cares to talk about it.
And does anyone remember Rochdale?
Nothing will happen, I'm afraid. And the most vulnerable in our society will be the ones who suffer.

They can recognise there is a problem but the System does not permit the society to recognise or to apply necessary ways to deal with them.

😮

Markie - Member

Do you guys think that the dream of an integrated, socially stable and progressive Europe can survive the next decade?

Yes. And not just that it can, but that it will.

Ya, but it will be shite place to live though.

However, this will come at the cost of substantial government investment in integrating existing alienated immigrant communities and the limiting of further immigration from outside the global north.

That is the problem.

I had some friends who had caught the train up to Cologne to party on new years eve, they reported seeing nothing unusual.

The reports from the more reliable media state that one women was raped and dozens were sexually assaulted. They estimate that a gang of about 30 men were responsible.

The reports of a gang of a thousand men are way off. That was the number of people who gathered in front of the train station to release fireworks (a scene repeated all over Germany in public places on new years).

In Germany in the 50's/60,s and 70's when the UK was recruiting cheap labour to fill gaps in the expanding economy from the Indian sub continent and the Caribbean, the Germans were recruiting from Turkey. They suffered much of the same problems integrating and being accepted into their new home as happened in the UK. This lead to the same isolated inner city relatively poor communities which was/is a breeding ground for crime and gangs.

And does anyone remember Rochdale?

Horrible town, lovely town hall. I think the town where Cyril Smith operated may not be the best example to try and smear brown skinned people as sexual deviants.

Do you guys think that the dream of an integrated, socially stable and progressive Europe can survive the next decade?

The problem is no-one will recognise there is a problem.

The migration crisis will most likely lead to a return to politically left or right extreme parties, resulting in the rise of ethno-nationalism and the collapse of the union.

Anyone rememver the euphoria of 1989 and the collapse of the Berlin Wall? Seems a different age now.

I agree with you on this Badnewz, I think that some of the posters are missing the point - even if this was just a gang of 30 men, the actual existence of the reports that are being published are indicative of a deeper malaise.

one of my German colleagues was telling me today that this has been going on for a while albeit not on the same scale before as New Year's eve in which the men were calling women "Bitches" and "Wh*res" as well as attacking them.

In the the interests of balance a similar mindset is pretty prevalent in London - I had the "pleasure" of an Uber cab 2 months ago in which the driver was very happy to tell the wife and her colleague that it would be their fault if men attacked them because they were wearing skirts, and that the one out of his 7 sisters who chose not to "cover" herself would only have herself to blame if she got raped because men can't be expected to control their urges - presumably the same applies to the many thousands of children raped by grooming gangs.

These "values" are clearly not acceptable with european values, culture or ways of living but the navel gazing and deafening silence from many politicians on these issues is just allowing the behaviours to spread unchallenged.

So more than a thousand brown skinned people carried out, what is reported to have been, a series of orchestrated sexual assualts. This was carrried out on the crowd outside Cologne railway station on New Year's Eve.

Well, here's a video that purports to show this grisly, military style, attack:

Hmm...

It's not to say that there weren't incidents, which should be investigated, but the general media coverage of this is just unhinged.

the actual existence of the reports that are being published are indicative of a deeper malaise.

Have you considered that this thread might also be part of that malaise? Your comments in your OP seem a bit weird to me, almost like you're reveling in it.

One video proves nothing either way Copa, there could easily be 1000 people there. Whether those in the video are a) migrants or of Arabic descent and b) involved in the assaults is a different matter. It's a crap video, it can't be used to support either side of the argument.

The fact that the Guardian is stating that 1000 were involved and they operated in groups of 30-40, tells me that there may be some truth to the stories - however I am waiting to see it. If the reports are not true, I would find it even more troubling that papers like the Guardian that are supposed bastions of liberal thinking are publishing reports like these. That crosses a certain line, where nasty racism of the type we saw with the rise of fascism - has once again been gentrified and made palatable for the chattering classes. Europe would, in that case and in my view, now have the right conditions for full fat political extremism.

Have you considered that this thread might also be part of that malaise? Your comments in your OP seem a bit weird to me, almost like you're reveling in it.

No, the current political climate just worries me for good reasons.

IT cannot be undone you cannot repatriate folk. No lace with this large a population will ever have perfect harmony. There may be right wing fascists or communist terrorist separatists so lets not pretend if we were all homogeneous and white there would be no incidents and lets not pretend the very fabric of society /our way of life is somehow under threat.

You might be right, but what you miss is that the thing that matters is what the general public views as the truth. The current rise of political polarization does not seem to be a one off incident and the current political discourse seems to be that our way of life is under threat. Incidents like the one that happened in Cologne do not help to counter this view. I think an argument can be made, that we actually do need to reduce net migration to Europe temporarily, so as to calm the political situation.

The general media coverage of this is just unhinged..

Or rather bordering on illegal.. Inciting racial hatred etc

But yeah, perhaps the media coverage is part of the conditioning we are being subjected to to prepare us for a shift in European policy during the next year..
There is however a more paranoid part of me that fears we could be being conditioned for something more sinister

One of the main things the German channels are talking about is that the police reported a quiet night with no serious problems and hushed it all up for several days. I watch German TV every day and first saw reports this morning.

I've not read the reports fully but I gather they took place in public places like stations? In which case there should be some CCTV to establish what happened.

I have to say my immediate reaction was whether the claimed attacks were genuine or right wing scare mongering. Not sure what this says about my level of cynicism and the modern world.

To back up and add to my point in regards to the above

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jan/06/dont-let-trump-fool-you-rightwing-populism-is-the-new-normal-video

You can count out right-wing scare mongering. There are too many concordant witness reports, numbers arrested are in the 40-50 range depending on source, and yes, there's footage from lots of sources.

[url= http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/koeln-ich-habe-noch-nie-so-viele-heulende-maedchen-gesehen-1.2806316 ]This from a female social worker is typical[/url]

"North African and Arab looking"
"Speaking foreign languges except to insult women"
"Not refugees in transit"
"Insulting and grabbing at women"
"Slut and whore" shouldn't upset the STW swear filter;
"Very large numbers"
"no criticism of police present who were simply too outnumbered"
"lots of crying womem"
"men trying to look after their female friends"

the actual existence of the reports that are being published are indicative of a deeper malaise.

the current political discourse seems to be that our way of life is under threat. Incidents like the one that happened in Cologne do not help to counter this view

Your tone of reasoned measures considered hysteria is exactly how they pitch it

GET A GRIP

HTH

So the BBC and The Guardian are now spreading right wing, racist propaganda? 🙄

Have you considered being a leader writer for some tabloid publication
Your tone of reasoned measures considered hysteria is exactly how they pitch it

GET A GRIP

HTH

I was going to try to keep this respectful, but you are deluded if you think that we or more specifically continental Europe aren't in need of a centerist response to the far right.

If you hadn't noticed, I never mentioned Britain 😉 Continental Europe is the main worry - politically speaking.

Accepting refugees is good but it is not incompatible with 'refugee influx results in cultural clashes that require attention'. The migration boat, as you quite rightly pointed out - has already sailed, ethically and legally we can't kick people out and there would be no point. Unfortunately that boat hit an iceberg and sunk.

the current political discourse seems to be that our way of life is under threat.

Maybe it is under threat.

If you hadn't noticed, I never mentioned Britain Continental Europe is the main worry - politically speaking.

There is a temptation for us Brits to think, hard luck Europe.

But I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Germany or France deciding to give all their troublemakers EU passports, meaning many will be able to enter the UK.

If we vote to get out the EU we might be able to save ourselves, but I don't see if happening unfortunately.

Also, wasn't it in Cologne where the cathedral turned out its lights in disgust at the Pegida marches?
I've no idea what's happened to Protestantism, it seems to be the same thing as liberalism.
Islam and Christianity have not been the best of friends over the years after all.
But nature abhors a vacuum, and I expect Islam to fill the religious void in Europe in a hundred years time, as its people, institutions, and Christianity dies.
I will end with perhaps the most defeatist statement possible: at least I won't be around to see it.

Any descriptions of the culprits not just skin colour ? Any suspects identified ? Any arrests ? CCTV imagery given such a large number of people at a railway station ? Did CCTV operators notify Police of gangs of 50-60 people moving in on women ? In fact any facts at all ?

Immigrants never do any wrong

Dark skinned never do any wrong

Ethnic cultures different to our own never do any wrong

It's all propaganda

Sod off - as British people, we have values - some of our own indigenous residents have no regard for these values because they are bellends, however....

The 'persecuted' minorities that are flooding our/Europes borders simply haven't been brought up with these values, or are aware of them and choose to ignore them. I'm not comfortable with hordes of migrant men who don't understand, or have no respect for our values, or for that, our laws. They shouldn't have to be integrated - if I go to any other country, I'm expected to abide by their laws - in many instances, I'll be banged up in jail for a long time if I don't.

Apologists, you take the moral high ground, but let's see where that gets us in a few decades. I quite like the British way of life - I couldn't care less what the colour of your skin, or religion is, just don't be a dick if you come here please and we will get on fine!

These 1000 or so youths should be brought to justice and its obviously a huge failure of the police, but Germany has >10 million immigrant population, trying to extrapolate their behaviour into some kind of fall of western Europe to the infidels is laughable!

[i]Did CCTV operators notify Police of gangs of 50-60 people moving in on women [/i]

According to the news just now - up to 1000 men involved.. what?!
How would they even go about arranging such acts and get agreement that it's a great idea from 1000 men. Can't get my head around this at all.

Actually Junkyard, if we use your reasoning - ie look at the people who gain from this, we find that;

1) The far right gains from it.
2) ISIS gains from it.

The far right do not have moles in the BBC and Guardian editorial teams. ISIS however have stated that their intention is to create division within Europe. After the Paris attacks, the French managed to shrug it off and reject Marine Le Pen through tactical voting - despite her rise in popularity. The political discourse was that these were the actions of a minority of deluded muslims, who don't represent the faith. Well, how would you, as a member of ISIS challenge this notion? By sowing seeds through social media and mass communication, that leads to mass unrest such as that which has been reported in Cologne. It's the London riots (social unrest via social media) gone a bit rapey.

Say hello to a new type of terrorism ladies and gentlemen and welcome to 2016. Have a happy new year.

Penguin Party, Dez?

TAFKASTR - I work with loads of immigrants, care work, innit?

They seem to hold 'Traditional British Values' in much higher regard than many of those whose families have lived here for generations.

We take our tolerance and understanding for granted.
They don't seem to.

I can take you to a church full of Zimbabwean ex pats who thank God, regularly and very, very loudly that they live in the UK.

I have been following this story for a few days now, I didn't start a thread as I felt the usual suspects would just turn it into a discussion of yours truely. Even so I struggle to comprehend some posts above speaking of "false flags" and "no evidence". There have already been 120 crime reports to the police and given the cover up by German media amd Police its hardly surprising they have released no CCTV

The lack of reporting in Germany is political correctness gone totally mad. The lead German state broadcaster has issued an apology for covering up the story for 5 days. 1,000 maurauding men groping women on the breats and between the legs and rape and they report NOTHING ? As for Merkel's statement that you cannot infer the attackers are immigrants/asylum seekers, really ! So how come Germany hasn't been plagued by such mass attacks before ? Reports in press that [b]all[/b] those aksed for ID had temporary asylum seekers documents.

There was a huge cultural divide in evidence in Cologne, the culprits quite simply will not understand that they cannot do this. For them it is an absolutely normal and acceptable reaction to what they see is Western depravity.

Germany stands on the edge of an abyss of Merkel's making. No more, no,less.

TAFKASTR - I work with loads of immigrants, care work, innit?

Without exception, they seem to hold 'Traditional British Values' in much higher regard than many of those whose families have lived here for generations.

We take our tolerance for granted.
They don't.

I've worked with loads of immigrants too - and for the majority they have been great guys. My post may have come across slightly off cue (I'm Pissed), but I just cannot bear the denial of left wing apologists, who seem to deny that cultural differences in social attitude can be a big problem - and they will argue this point as though it doesn't exist. It does!

Neither can I mate.

I'm as lefty as they come, but I'm a moral and ethical absolutist.

I'm as lefty as they come, but I'm a moral and ethical absolutist.

Yet lefties are the ones drowning in moral relativism? Does this mean that yours is a case of mistaken self-identity?

cultural differences in social attitude can be a big problem

Kimbers +1

And whoever mentioned it, yes I do remember Rochdale - and despite what the tabloids claimed there was no evidence that 'political correctness' or fear of being labelled racist was a key factor (or indeed really a factor at all) in the failure to investigate properly, and there have been numerous white paedophile gangs who also haven't been investigated properly. That's not to say there isn't an issue of grooming/sexual abuse etc amongst certain groups but there's some gigantic generalisations and ridiculous doom-mongering being done here, unsurprisingly.

I'm left wing, and I recognise that differences in social attitudes can be a problem. It's something I face in some of my work quite regularly. People from rural ****stan (for example) do have very different attitudes and standards to us about all sorts of things. However, making massive generalisations and assuming that our culture is always better in every way is hardly very helpful.

It's not always better, but it often is grum.

Otherwise you undermine feminism and a whole host of clearly or even empirically better viewpoints with a lot of post-modernist bollocks.

Worrying that out way of life is under threat is to become part of the problem.

You won't placate people by telling them to stop worrying, you can never convince people over to your side - they simply know what they feel. Just as propaganda never converts people, it simply reinforces what people already think they know.

The center needs to create a narrative that brings those people back, like it or not - you live in a democracy Junkyard and peoples intuition, whether it is right or wrong, affects political outcomes.

Yes, MR, to a certain extent.

The issues we face are forcing people to actually think about what we hold dear.

The lazy, ignorant, acceptance of easily digested, one size fits all dogma is dangerous and counterproductive.

I resisted mentioning Rochdale but I did post of Politcial Correctness in Germany. Absolutely the majority of sex abusers in the UK are white anglo saxon males, born and bred in the UK. What happened in Rochdale however is almost unprecidented in terms of scale (in my view) and we will only know the truth after all the trials and investigations.

JY if we haven't really got a grip on integration and multi culturalism in our society it would seem a good idea to "call time" for a bit until we do. No we aren't all going to get along all the time, however mass sexual assualt by those who have been welcomed into a new country is beyond the pale.

Jambs, no offence, but you're not helping.

If you'd like to come up we'd be happy to put you up and introduce you to many people from various communities who are trying to find out what the hell has happened to that town.

It's so complicated that even discussing it on a forum seems crass.

Genuine invite.
Bring your bike, the riding, the place and the vast majority of people are lovely.

I will nip round as well and we promise greggs and any pastry you choose 😉

however mass sexual assualt by those who have been welcomed into a new country is beyond the pale.

As for calling time on multiculturalism for a bit may I I wish you and your French wife well in this 😉

Of course some cultures will clash and some more than others be it the EDL or the anti Nazi league or football fans or mods v rockers or punks and skinheads. All of these threats were real but did not signal the end of anything. Lets keep some perspective here.

My old man was at Cable Street.
A 20 year old atheist Catholic defending the rights of Jews to be as British as he was.
Even though his dad was Irish and his mum French.

Plus ca change.

God, I love this country sometimes.

Good to see you're a bit less outraged about my and some others opinions JY.

At the end of the day, most of us here like progressive values mate. Don't suspect people of having the most base motivations behind their posts, my wifes not white - we've put up with a fair amount of crap. So I don't have any ulterior motives - it's just that existing minorities end up suffering from blowback from these kinds of events.

Most of the people here just differ in regards to how this should be dealt with, you lot are actually a pretty balanced nice bunch - no matter what side of the political spectrum you are from.

I'm guessing the problem is that many of these male immigrants are coming from countries where the treatment and rights of woman (by our standards) is shockingly backward. It's not racist to say that, just a sad and unfortunate fact that sexual assault and abuse seems more tolerated in certain cultures.

Speaking from personal experience in Egypt, a blonde female friend of mine was repeatedly hit upon in an aggressive and sleazy fashion by the local men in a bar frequented by tourists, at the same time as I'm stood next to her trying to have a conversation. We left pretty sharpish after 1/2 hr when it all got too much and after an attempted 'touch up' by a particularly unsavory and persistent suitor.

We did meet a lot of genuinely lovely Egyptians too, but it's still worrying that the above could take place so publicly.

DezB - Member

According to the news just now - up to 1000 men involved.. what?!
How would they even go about arranging such acts and get agreement that it's a great idea from 1000 men. Can't get my head around this at all.

The "1000 men" thing [i]seems[/i] to source from this article
http://www.ksta.de/koeln/polizei-koeln-spricht-von-80-opfern-sote,15187530,33056908.html

My german's not so good but I don't think it actually says there were a 1000 men involved- I read it that the attackers came from a group of 1000 men, not that there were a group of 1000 attackers. Later in the article it says that smaller groups had attacked women which seems to confirm that. (the larger group still seem to have been a bunch of arseholes mind)

So I could be wrong but I suspect that part's going to come down to a mistranslation, and now all the news sources are effectively quoting each other. Not that this is good; but it's better than gangs of 1000 men

"Mehr als 1000 Männer gehörten zu der Gruppe, aus der heraus die Taten begangen wurden."- more than 1000 men belonged to the group, from which the attacks were carried out"

but then later

"Die Gruppe wuchs auf mehr als 1000 an. Gegen 0.15 Uhr sperrte die Polizei den Bahnhofsvorplatz und die Treppen. Erst nach und nach gab es in der Nacht erste Hinweise, dass kleinere Gruppen Frauen angegriffen hätten."

"The group was about 1000 men, and at 12.15 the station was closed. Then by and by it was found that smaller groups had attacked women"

Yes I had to look some of that up 😆

Well if that's the case NW, I'm never trusting the Graun or the Independent again.

Good to see you're a bit less outraged about my and some others opinions JY.

For all the social justice fanatics here on Single Track I'll quote quote Richard Dawkins "Soft bigotry of low expectations." Holding other races to a lower standard (e.g. excusing misogyny & homophobia) is itself a form of racism ..