[Closed] Coffee machine?

I have the Heston Blumenthal Sage duo pro plus the pro grinder. Total cost for an entry level setup is around £480. How much disposable income do have that the Wife doesn't know about and you want to spend?

Which is the best one to get?

budget?

I have a Jura ena 5 if it were to blow up tomorrow I'd get another Jura machine.

I thought the Heston machine was lots, until I googled the Jura!
I was hoping less than 200quid.

Keep your eyes open for deals and for a bit over £200 you can get a bean to cup deLonghi. As long as you have a burr grinder and a 15 bar pump (which the DeLonghi has) then it's all about the beans. My DeLonghi has many settings to get your coffee just right and once set up will bang out the coffee completely consistently at the touch of a button. Not good enough for the connoisseurs i'm sure, but works fine for me. It has a steam wand so you can froth up milk and a section to drop powdered stuff into, so if you want to make a hot chocolate or use ready-ground coffee you can.

Was gifted a delonghi bean to cup for Xmas....

It does a good coffee......not blue bottle San Francisco good but better than starbucks and Costa by far 🙂

Another vote for a Delonghi Magnifica machine. Just ignore the froth setting on the steam wand, you get much better milk if you leave it on steam and lower the milk jug until the wand is just below the surface and sucking air into the milk.

My "cheap" Delonghi bean to cup has been banging out coffee for the last four? Years.

It's been faultless, never thought it would last this long either.

Not as quiet as I'd like though. Especially at 5am.

Delonghi - I bought my department one as a moving in present (we moved) and it has been more than passable. With good fresh beans it is possible to choke it - not that that is a good thing but you can back off the settings from that and get it very respectable for a bean to cup. However on holiday a few weeks ago our airbnb had the exact machine and it was woeful. Exactly (as in the same bag) beans and it pissed out thin horrible coffee at a rate of knots. Owner said it had been like that out of the box.

If you go for one and you can't choke it with fresh beans send it back - they are clearly not born equally.

At home I have a la pavoni europiccola- whilst I like using it, it is a world away from a bean 2 cup.

I especially like the fact the steaming bit could also produce hot water to americano-ise my coffee.

An espresso machine is unlikely to be the best tool for the job if you like long black coffee. If you like espresso or cappuccino, then only an espresso machine can make those drinks, but for long black coffee you would be better off with a cafetiere, an Aeropress, a dripper (e.g. V60) or a Chemex, which are generally reckoned to produce better long black drinks than americanos.

The money you save on not buying an espresso machine would be better spent on a good quality grinder (which will probably be much more reliable, trouble free and longer lasting than a bean to cup machine for a similar price) and good quality beans.

I've got the delonghi dedica ec680, not bad at all and looks pretty. The wand as mentioned is crap, take it off and use the steam arm and texture yourself.

At home I have a la pavoni europiccola- whilst I like using it, it is a world away from a bean 2 cup.

Any good?

I have always been tempted by these (or the slightly dearer version with the pressure gauge)

I think so. Reliant in a good grinder that can grind fine even for espresso and fresh beans to make anything drinkable. It's a very involving experience which can be satisfying when working right. 6 years of ownership later and it's all quite instinctive.

I'm not 100% sold on the need for the gauge. As I understand it (never used one with one) you have no real way to adjust the pressure so it just becomes a fancy version of the temperature light.

I've had one with and one without the gauge. Agree with convert. It's obviously got a bigger boiler but I don't see a benefit with the gauge. Post millennium versions with the 51mm group are better in that you can get more coffee in the basket 🙂 Love mine, will be apart again soon for a service but basically they're built to last. Bargains on ebay often.

Which model do you have RichPenny?

I had a Delonghi Magnifica bean to cup but ended up giving it away. It wasn't that the coffee was crap it's just I found it very variable and the great cups in the minority. Worth getting if you are prepared to experiment a lot and think the faff is worth it but personally I just switched to a Nespresso and don't regret it but we all have different tastes and degrees of laziness :p

but for long black coffee you would be better off with a cafetiere

Counter intuitively (perhaps) proper Americano's have less caffeine for the same bean. (less bitter)

It's all to do with how long the water is in contact with coffee.....

I have a really expensive Gaggia machine my brother gave me (everything except main water connection)... but it barely gets used as its running costs are so high for a single cup.... takes ages to heat up then once you open the coffee its ticking away... great coffee but more used if I'm making lots for guests

I thought an Americano was an espresso with hot water added? Hence thinking I should move away from the cafetiere?

I would have said that too - Americano is espresso with hot water and Google seems to generally agree.

For £200 I would be looking for a second-hand original Gaggia Classic (with brass internals)

I drink both Americano and french press derived bigger coffees. Got to confess if it's a proper mug of coffee I'm after I go for the cafetiere. Been through the aeropress phase and out the other side - that lives in my van now.

I thought an Americano was an espresso with hot water added? Hence thinking I should move away from the cafetiere?

Yes which is why (made properly with hot water) it has a lot less caffeine than a cafetiere...

Nearly all the flavour comes in the first 25ml or so.... (The expresso) then the rest is increasingly bitter caffeine which is why improperly made Americano's taste bitter... people with bad impressions of Americano are [u]often [/u]due to the Americano not being made properly and the person just putting more and more water through instead of adding hot water.

I thought an Americano was an espresso with hot water added? Hence thinking I should move away from the cafetiere?

If you prefer an americano to cafetiere, then I would urge you to try filter coffee, e.g. V60 dripper or Chemex.

Although in my post I lumped the cafetiere and Aeropress together with the dripper and Chemex methods, the cafetiere does produce a different drink to the others. It's difficult for me to describe, but I find the cafetiere to be a more 'robust' (and to me harsher) brew, whereas filter coffee is a more toned down drink where more delicate or subtle flavours in the coffee are better able to come through. It sounds like the latter is what you appreciate when comparing cafetiere with the americano you drank, so I think you would like good filter coffee. Aeropress is probably between cafetiere and the other filter coffee techniques.

If it is specifically americano that you like and want, then you need an espresso machine, but I would recommend you try filter first, before committing to an espresso machine.

When you make and drink a good espresso, it's great. The problem is that espresso is very unforgiving of inferior beans, inferior equipment (by which I mean much of the equipment marketed for home use, which is inferior to the equipment used in the better coffee shops)) or poor/inconsistent technique, and a bad shot tastes disgusting.

Good skills and technique can compensate to a large extent for inferior equipment, but you may find yourself getting very frustrated as you keep tweaking the settings trying to get the grind and the dose right, and pulling one bad shot after another.

Similarly good beans can make a major difference. By 'good' I don't just mean high quality or freshly roasted and freshly ground. Some very good quality beans can be very difficult to use to make espresso: you have to get the grind and the dose just right. However, some beans are much more tolerant of variations in grind, dose, technique and equipment.

Likewise commercial grade equipment, especially a high quality grinder, makes it much easier to get the best of any bean. Frankly, the difference in ease of use between a top end grinder and even the mid-level commercial grinders most shops use is very noticeable. The top end grinders require much much less tweaking of the grind and dose.

In contrast, filter coffee is vastly easier to make, requires much less equipment, works well with all beans, and is just a lot less faff. Hence my recommendation to try it before going down the espresso route.

In my usual 'I know best' manner I ignored all the advice on here and spent quite a bit on a 'good' coffee machine. What a lot of faff for an only OK'ish warmish coffee. I then took the filter out of the machine and just put it over the cup. Much better taste, hotter and less setup/ cleaning to do.

I then bought a simple Kalita dripper (as was originally recommended by most on here) and a cheap grinder and that is even better. Machine is now up for sale on Ebay.

Likewise commercial grade equipment, especially a high quality grinder, makes it much easier to get the best of any bean. Frankly, the difference in ease of use between a top end grinder and even the mid-level commercial grinders most shops use is very noticeable. The top end grinders require much much less tweaking of the grind and dose.

I used to play about .. both buying gourmet pre-ground and grinding my own... but never found anything better than a FRESH tin of Illy or the best quality Lavazza

The main reason for self grinding for me is you can do a little at once... which is better than month old

Interesting that you guys suggest drippers. Every dripper coffee I have ever tasted is disgusting, the best coffees I have had have been espressos with added hot water or cafetiere. I guess it must be down to personal taste.
I think I will go espresso and add hot water. Cheers for the input.

booking marking for later....
Looking at getting something soon, do have a short list, so see if any of them appears!

We got this one on black friday (for about what it's up for now)

[url= https://www.johnlewis.com/de-longhi-esam6900-m-primadonna-exclusive-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine-stainless-steel/p2271651 ]https://www.johnlewis.com/de-longhi-esam6900-m-primadonna-exclusive-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine-stainless-steel/p2271651[/url]

came with a hot chocolate maker attachemnt. Makes great coffee. My wife has one of their cheaper machines at work (the Magnifica I think) and says our home one produces better coffee so spending the extra might be worth it.

I can't believe I haven't been offered one to buy yet. Normally on the "what bike" threads there is a stealth ad..

Every dripper coffee I have ever tasted is disgusting, the best coffees I have had have been espressos with added hot water or cafetiere. I guess it must be down to personal taste.

I'm not saying it's impossible that the reason you've found filter coffee disgusting is personal taste (we are all different, and ultimately all that matters is personal taste), but I suspect it was disgusting because the beans were rubbish and/or the technique of the person who made it was rubbish. Filter coffee is very easy to get right ([url= https://www.hasbean.co.uk/blogs/brew-guides ]the Hasbean brew guides[/url] for example provide very easy to follow step by step instructions), especially compared with espresso, but it is possible to screw it up.

If your experience is based on comparing americanos made by a good/decent coffee shop using good beans and good equipment, with filter coffee made by someone at home who does not know what they are doing and using supermarket coffee, then I'm not surprised that you preferred the americano. However, you may find it difficult and/or expensive in terms of equipment to make a similarly good americano at home.

In an ideal world you would be able to buy a coffee made using a Chemex or V60 in a coffee shop as an alternative to espresso and espresso based drinks, but speed is essential in coffee shops and americanos are much quicker for them to make if someone wants a long black coffee.

On a final note, I will stick my neck out and be a bit provocative and say that I suspect that many people who think their espresso/bean to cup machines make great coffee are over estimating how good their coffee really is. I say this because the coffee served in many coffee shops is not that good, and that provides a low benchmark for many of us for the coffee we make at home. The fact that most espresso in the UK, including and especially in coffee shops, is consumed in a milk drink such as cappuccino is very telling: milk will dilute and conceal a bad espresso to a significant extent, but a bad espresso on its own is undrinkable.

People like Convert and RichPenny who use manual lever machines, will probably make much better coffee than a bean to cup machine, because they have had to persevere and learn the hard way how to get the best out of their equipment and beans.

I have a Jura ena 5 if it were to blow up tomorrow I'd get another Jura machine.

This. I love my Ena 7. Milk frothing for morning cappuccino is outsourced to an Aerocinno, but the coffee is freshly ground and of good quality. The only pfaff is that it uses a lot of water for first rinse and final clean, so I use a Brita water filter jug to keep it topped up.

The best coffee it makes is an Americano on strongest grind setting.

Although Jura's seem great machines, there often is a buildup of fungus inside..

[url=

inside Jura Brew Group[/url]

I'm not sure I have much to add to this conversation other than that the guy in front of me at the electrical wholesaler today was getting a 32 amp three phase connector for a coffee machine... Thats quite a machine, I would have thought.. For Luton Airport apparently, air traffic control or in flight crew?

the Heston Blumenthal Sage duo pro plus the pro grinder. Total cost for an entry level setup is around £480.

Fascinating fact - Heston serves Nespresso coffee at the Fat Duck.

Source: my mate used to work there!

Someone was selling a Gaggia Classic on STW a while back I would get that rather than something else.

I have Gaggia Classic and it has been superb ... 😛

I had a root through the for sale section, couldn't find anything.

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/fs-ot-gaggia-classic-espresso-makercoffee-machine ]Here[/url] posted by seth-enslow666.

I was think about getting it but gave up the idea for whatever reason ...

Edit: I gave up the idea as I thought I wanted something different but then gave up that idea too ... arrggghhh ... bit indecisive because mine is still working superbly.

I think in the end I just wanted a very simple machine after all it's only me drinking coffee ... so still thinking about Gagggia Classic back up ... arrggghhh 😮

[quote=gemini29 ]Although Jura's seem great machines, there often is a buildup of fungus inside..
Fungus inside Jura Brew Group

I think that machine has had little or no cleaning. My machine has the cleaning cycle reminder on, it lets me know when to clean it. It goes through a clean least once a month
Took my machine apart last week to replace a leaky water seal and it was fine.

[puts on flameproof suit]
I've had various coffee making contraptions, from filter machines and cafetierres through stovetop mokas to Bean2Cup DeLonghi monstrosities. The best, least fuss, least mess coffee I've had comes out of my Krups Nespresso. Tiny footprint, no faffing about, consistent quality. And it makes tea as well.

On a final note, I will stick my neck out and be a bit provocative and say that I suspect that many people who think their espresso/bean to cup machines make great coffee are over estimating how good their coffee really is. I say this because the coffee served in many coffee shops is not that good, and that provides a low benchmark for many of us for the coffee we make at home. The fact that most espresso in the UK, including and especially in coffee shops, is consumed in a milk drink such as cappuccino is very telling: milk will dilute and conceal a bad espresso to a significant extent, but a bad espresso on its own is undrinkable.

Without naming the "we provide comfy seats and Wifi along with coffee we won't even tell you the bean of" ... this is spot on.

Pretty much anywhere comes up with fancy names and doesn't tell you the percentage of arabica will then sell hot milk drinks to cover this up.

over estimating how good their coffee really is.

Define "good" ..

Pretty much anywhere comes up with fancy names and doesn't tell you the percentage of arabica will then sell hot milk drinks to cover this up.

Thing is there are quite a lot of people who like hot milk drinks that taste of coffee. I like a cappuccino at home but small and strong. A starbucks/costa version is way too milky for me. Their version of a macchiato is closer to my version of a cappuccino. Got to confess that I drink more tea out now than I used to as rubbish tea tastes better than rubbish coffee.

Going to a coffee shop is more than what you drink though isn't it - it should be about being in a nice place (or at least a haven away from a shite place) and having a chat/ reading a good book or generally getting a moment away from the world. What I am drinking is only part of that experience.

Aeropress.

Only drink espresso and hot water if I'm out and about

I'm sure the coffee I drink from my bean to cup machine is not THE BEST IN THE WORLD. Certainly I know the beans I use have not passed through the digestive system of any animal as far as I'm aware. I'm certainly not paying a premium for the privilege of them being so.

However it is a lot nicer than instant, a lot nicer than high street chain coffee shops, a lot nicer than any caffatiere/stove top/aeropress/filter coffee I've ever had. At the end of the day I just want a half decent brew I enjoy and I want it at the push of a button without the faff and hassle of grinding the beans myself and processing through a machine that cost more than my bike. I'm not that much of a coffee snob. There is a cost/convenience balance here.

I've had various coffee making contraptions, from filter machines and cafetierres through stovetop mokas to Bean2Cup DeLonghi monstrosities. The best, least fuss, least mess coffee I've had comes out of my Krups Nespresso. Tiny footprint, no faffing about, consistent quality.

If you're not really into coffee then the Nespresso or similar are decent options. We have one for our motorhome and it's fine for that, but for home we use one the Delonghi Bean 2 cup machines and they've been great.

I have a 15 year old Gaggia Classic and a Sage Smart Grinder Pro. I get my beans from [url= http://www.monsoonestates.co.uk/ ]Monsoon Estates[/url]. I am frequently told that the coffee I make is better than that served in any high street coffee shop.

If you're not really into coffee

I'm into coffee. I'm just more into not fannying about every time I fancy one. There's really not much difference, at least to my taste buds, between a bean to cup Guatemalan Cloud Forest and whatever the pearly-pink pods out of Aldi are. The advantage is I get my Aldi coffee about 5 minutes sooner.

Define "good"

To which the answer is not what beans were used (arabica, robusta, single estate etc. etc.), not what espresso machine or grinder was used, not how hard the water supply is or what water filter is used, not how skilled the user is, but whether you liked it. If you like very milky lattes, mochas, straight espresso, filter coffee, Nespresso, pre-ground, instant or whatever, then that is what you like.

Some people have a lot of defensiveness about their coffee preferences which you don't see with their choice of beer, whisky or food. There is also an element of emperor's new clothes with coffee: people thinking that they should drink a particular coffee and say that that is what they drink, because that is supposed to be a better choice rather than because it's what they actually like. In both cases there often seems to be a need to (implicitly) denigrate other people's preferences:

If you're not really into coffee then the Nespresso or similar are decent options

I'm into coffee. I'm just more into not fannying about every time I fancy one... The advantage is I get my Aldi coffee about 5 minutes sooner.

We need to get away from conversations about whether someone is 'into coffee' (snobbery) and about how others fanny about when they make coffee (inverse snobbery), and start talking more about we like, what we've tried, and what we recommend others try.

A friend of mine likes a cappuccino with lots of sugar. I don't tell him he's wrong to prefer that; I serve him a cappuccino and give him the sugar bowl. In the past I have also given him an espresso to try: he tried it and didn't like it.

When I said that many people who think their espresso/bean to cup machines make great coffee are over estimating how good their coffee really is, I was not seeking to criticise or denigrate them/their coffee, but to highlight the fact that because the coffee in many shops is so poor or even bad, it's often a poor benchmark to use to assess how good is the coffee we make at home. Starbucks, Costa and Nero haven't raised consumers' expectations (at least not for many years), and if anything they now lower them. My advice would always be to try to find a very good local independent coffee shop - there are not many, but there are an increasing number.

With regard to espresso equipment for home use, my own experience is that you to need have at least one or more of the following:

- Very good equipment, especially the grinder. A top end grinder won't turn bad beans into good coffee, but it greatly reduces the need to adjust the grind and dose (wasting coffee in the process). I have a weekly subscription, and the coffee sent each week is different. With an average commercial grinder, I could easily use up 50g to 100g of my 250g weekly pack just dialling in the grind and dose. Instead, with a top end grinder I just dump the bag in the hopper and usually just make one minor adjustment to the grind or dose every couple of weeks or so. If I made more adjustments to the grind, I could probably make better coffee, but I can't be bothered and I am satisfied with what I currently drink (and I'm not sure my palate would discern the difference anyway).

- Very good beans. There is more to it than just freshly roasted and freshly ground. Some beans and blends are a lot easier to make espresso with than others, by which I mean they are a lot more forgiving of variations in the grind and dose. I once bought some of the house blend made by Square Mile coffee roasters for the Flat White/Milk Bar coffee shops in Soho, and I was amazed at how easy they were to use. So, if I had a bean to cup machine or a not particularly great grinder, I would make a point of finding and buying beans like that, even if they cost significantly more.

- Very good skills. Perseverence and practice will enable many people to develop the skills to get the best out of their equipment and the beans they use. I don't have good skills.

Having spent all that money on equipment and having tried different types of coffee and beans, I now know that I would be quite content to do without espresso and cappuccino and could happily make do with a basic grinder and a Chemex to make filter coffee.

TBh I sort of like the look of that chemex. You can get a burr grinder and set up for about 120.

I love coffee.
Drink loads of the stuff..

I love my bean to cup machine, a Severin S2+:
[img] [/img]

I mostly use it to make 'coffee' (long drink with milk) or 'espresso' (espresso). If I'm in a hurry, I make an expresso (chuckle..)
It does make frothed milk, but not very well - foamy rather than silky.

It's FAR nicer than any instant I've ever had.
It's dead easy to use - press a button, off you go.

TBH, it is very needy (I've posted about this before) but I suppose that's what keeps it running (frequent cleaning/descalin etc)

We've a local bean roaster in the village so I go in and get a 'cocktail' of beans - sometimes i mix them up in the hopper etc. This not only makes nice coffees, but also varies the flavour. It's all go in our house.

I've got a tassimo machine at work - also makes nice coffee, but the £per cup is greater than bean machines. The beans are probably nicer too.

So, the world's your oyster, but I think anything that uses beans or grinds will be nicer than instant. By a long shot.

DrP

I've bean using a Nespresso for a while but to be honest I cant help but think the price of the pods + delivery is a bit steep.

Recently met a local roaster (Iron & Fire) and he explained how to get the best out of fresh beans, grinder & cafetière.

It amazing - I'm addicted to the stuff now (not good I know)! They have some useful info on their website and its tue best coffee I've ever had! Great name too - Iron & Fire.

If you like Americano go for an Aeropress for £25 and spend the rest on a good 2nd hand burr grinder like this [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rancilio-Rocky-SD-coffee-grinder-/182561706875?hash=item2a8186937b:g:qL8AAOSwrhBZDJkY ]Rocky[/url]

Then buy good quality beans, their signature blend is a good place to start [url=www.ravecoffee.co.uk]Ravecoffee[/url]

OP there's a Gaggia machine [url= http://www.ferrari-espresso.com/product/coffee-gaggia-used-with-our-custom-rancilio-silvia-v3-steam-wand-kit/ ]here[/url] that will probably do the job. I use the company to service my Rancilio machine.