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My Sage Smart Grinder Pro is starting to sound a bit unhealthy. It's clogged a few times recently and really sounds like it's struggling with grinding for espresso. This is despite regular cleaning. I'm going to get it looked at under warranty (about 1 month left) then either sell it or keep it for coarser grinds.
I've been looking at replacements and wondering if single dosing is the way forward. The Niche Zero looks ideal, albeit expensive, for this (My machine is a Sage Duo Temp for comparison). Another option is a much cheaper Eureka Mignon plus some mods like a funnel, bellows and incline stand (which I might make myself). The models of the Mignon are many though, no idea which to get?
Any other grinders I should consider? For Espresso mainly with occasional V60 filter or aeropress.
I’ve had both a Eureka Mignon and a Niche Zero after switching to single dosing so the coffee is fresher.
Would recommend the Niche by a fair margin due to bigger burrs and a much simpler workflow. If it is just a few a day the Made by Knock Feld-47 is pretty much as good and a fair whack cheaper, nice hand grinder from a UK manufacturer.
https://madebyknock.com/products/gold-titanium-feld47
If you are willing to mod things, then a used Mazzer Super Jolly can be had very cheaply if you keep an eye out. Gives you 64mm flat burrs not 50mm and will potentially out last you as they are built like tanks.
Edit: My Mignon did stall a few times going from coarse to fine, even with adjusting whilst running the burrs.
I've got the Niche. When researching grinders, the thing that drew me to it was the ease of use. I really do appreciate being able to just set the grind size, chuck the beans in and go. I haven't used the eureka, but the buttons & display put me off a bit.
The DF64 might be worth looking at too, personally use the Niche, because I wanted it and the DF64 was only available with a naff 'graphite' wrap at the time. I have no regrets and it's adjustability suits a fussy maker (Flair) and drinker (me).
It is a few coffees a day but I don't want a hand grinder. I have a Hario one and even Aeropress takes a while on that.
One thing is my portafilter is 54mm, which means the nice dosing cup supplied with the Niche Zero won't fit and I'll have to source another.
I haven’t used the eureka, but the buttons & display put me off a bit
I'd probably just go for the basic model, no need for a grind timer if single dosing.
There is a new Mignon single dose (small hopper/inclined base etc) anyone seen it in the wild?
The DF64 might be worth looking at too
James Hoffmann didn't like it as much as the Niche, and it's not actually that much cheaper?
Another happy Niche owner here. Works well, great workflow, easy to clean and retention is almost non existent. No comparison with the Eureka though I was making the decision between the two when I got the Niche, I've no regrets over going with the Niche.
I think it's weighing up spending ~£200 vs £500....
The Niche has everything I want, I just want to justify the cost 🙂
You do know that any minute now someone who doesn't drink coffee is going to come on and say "£500 to grind a few beans? Why can't you just crush them between a couple of bricks or just drink nescafe?".
Niche Zero.
@dmorts - Fair point on the time, but not all hand grinders are created equally.
I’ve got a Feld-47 travel and it takes around 45 seconds for 18g of medium roasted. Maybe closer to a minute if you use very light Nordic roast style.
The single dose Mignon haven’t really taken off on the coffee forums as far as I can tell. Still more Niche and DF64s at the minute.
Well I like drinking decent coffee and grind my own beans. Spending £500 on a coffee grinder is utterly ridiculous. Buy the still mind bogglingly expensive £200 one and give the rest to charity.
@kimura54321 I'm considering the original standard Eureka Mignon, then just using it to single dose. You can make this better at it by adding bellows and inclining it.
It looks Eureka have taken the community mods/ideas and added them to a production model to create the Eureka Mignon Oro Single Dose
@robola well perhaps. Depends how you frame it. I've essentially worn out the Sage grinder that cost £150 in just less than 2 years. That's not good vfm. The Sage is really not that serviceable, where as models like the Eureka are. The Niche is a bit of an unknown in those terms, but reviews indicate it is built to a very high standard.
Also £500 is still considered pretty cheap for a grinder in the pro-sumer barista world. Plus per cup over a few years, it's not that much.
@dmorts - Apologies, I am a bit of a coffee geek! 😂
I would agree with you to an extent, the bellows are a bit of an add on to help clear it but it still has more retention than ideal due to the grind path and will be less consistent due to popcorning of the beans etc. without a hopper full. If they added an auger or flow control device and removed all dead spots it would have been snapped up.
The Niche support is great, but the Eurekas are higher build quality. Really like my Niche but it is more “kitchen appliance” than a proper commercial grinder, i.e. plastic gearbox and a brushed DC motor. Likely to do well at home, not expecting it to last forever but it is very convenient and makes nice coffee.
Spending £500 on a coffee grinder is utterly ridiculous.
Depsite having done it, I do agree. It doesn't even seem that bad compared to the Linea Mini I'd like to also have in my kitchen, I know people do, but I can't even comprehend spending that much on a kitchen applicance. There are so many things where you can buy something cheaper that does a similar job, but we are of course on a mtb forum so we all know that people like what they like and buy what they buy.
Hmm, another perspective. Everyday my neighbour drives to Costa and gets takeaway coffees for him and his wife. Imagine the purchasing funds they'd have if they totted that up and put it into home coffee equipment.
Anyway £500 is an awful lot, twice the price of my coffee machine, hence me creating this post. A Eureka for less than half that would be a vast increase in quality anyway and I could spend the rest on a bread maker or induction hob.
I started a couple of years ago with the Niche Zero and Sage Duo Temp Pro. I still use the DTP - to steam milk since adding a Cafelat Robot, and have well and truly scratched my upgraditis itch. The Niche lets me jump between beans and brew methods without skipping a beat - I always have espresso, v60 and decaf beans on the go and the Niche just works. Search thingverse for a DTP adaptor for the dosing cup to work with the smaller portafilter. The Niche works well for me.
Depsite having done it, I do agree. It doesn’t even seem that bad compared to the Linea Mini I’d like to also have in my kitchen, I know people do, but I can’t even comprehend spending that much on a kitchen applicance. There are so many things where you can buy something cheaper that does a similar job, but we are of course on a mtb forum so we all know that people like what they like and buy what they buy.
the Appolo Rampage is a perfectly good mountain bike.
Every time I read about folk paying top £'s for a coffee grinder I just smile & thank my dear old mum for leaving this old thing lying around for me.
It's got an adjustment screw on the back so you can err....adjust the coarsness.
I get great satisfaction in turning the handle. 😎
My Eureka Mignon is the first version (I think) with side button about 7-8 years old. I have never cleaned it since day one as I am a rough user. The only time it got clogged was two months ago when one of the coffee bean was as hard as a rock and stopped the grind, other than that it works perfectly fine. I only go for coarse grind because I only drink filter coffee nowadays. Can't be arsed to use my Gaggia Classic coffee machine. Much easier to go for filter coffee Borneo style. Anyway, Eureka Mignon get the job done and so far so good.
The Niche lets me jump between beans and brew methods without skipping a beat
This is kind of what I didn't want to read..... because this is what I'm looking for! Do you work for Niche?
Perhaps consider grabbing a Mazzer super jolly ? I got mine for around 100 quid, and you can easily mod it to remove the doser if you so desire with parts from here - https://home-doserless.com/
Absolute tank of a grinder that feels like it will last forever
This is kind of what I didn’t want to read….. because this is what I’m looking for! Do you work for Niche?
I don't but I can confirm once you've paid for it the thought of the cost won't cross your mind again really, it does what it should do exceptionally well and it 'just works'. It's really easy to adjust as you rotate the silver ring to the required level and flick the chunky 1960's feeling switch to start it running. Originally I thought the siwtch let it down a bit, but I realise it's likely there as it's simple and will last as long as the rest of it will.
As for essels post above, we aren't all lucky enough to have a wall mounted hand-me down. I'd also question the consistency of the grind/retention/state of the burrs, but I suspect it does a good enough job for the purpose it's empllyed for 🙂
The generation of the mignons makes a difference too. I replaced an older mignon with a Eureka Mignon Specialita (from the more silent range). The older versions were much noisier and clumped when down at fine grinds. They have much improved. Both are good though if you don't want a massive grinder.
No, I don’t work for Niche. When I was looking to upgrade from a Porlex hand grinder as I had the DTP on order, I wanted two things from an espresso grinder - firstly it would be good enough that I wouldn’t be wanting something else when I came to upgrade the DTP and secondly that I could easily swap between pourover and espresso. It looked like the common solution was 2 grinders, and when I found the Niche at around the time James Hoffmann reviewed it, it ticked all the boxes, and some I didn’t even know I had.
If you get one and don’t like it you’ll have no trouble moving it on. They really did knock the ball right out of the park.
Well I like drinking decent coffee and grind my own beans. Spending £500 on a coffee grinder is utterly ridiculous.
It's like anything though, if you care about it, then the amount it costs starts looking "ridiculous" to others.
For a good single dose grinder with low retention, the Niche is actually pretty good value for money. There's a few others in that price bracket now, but before the Niche, you'd be looking at spending at least double for something built to be a single dose.
@aidy - It was a game changer, pretty much you had to either mod a commercial machine like a Super Jolly or put up with an eternity of hand grinding for single dosing…
There still aren’t a huge number of single dosing grinders that easily do both espresso and filter for that money.
It was a game changer, pretty much you had to either mod a commercial machine like a Super Jolly or put up with an eternity of hand grinding for single dosing…
Well, there were alternatives, you just had to spend all of the money. EG-1, Versalab M3, Monolith, off the top of my head. I'm forgetting a few.
I have a niche zero. It's awesome, get one (if fund's allow). Buying anything else, particularly if you have to have various bellows/support stand bodges to make it work as a zero-retention grinder, will just leave you wishing you bought the niche in the first place.
I bought a cheap super Jolly first, and moded it: Small hopper, single dose funnel, timer relay. Lived with it for a few months then upgraded to the Niche Zero. The super-jolly is just too-much grinder for domestic use - an unpopular opinion, but true. The Niche zero is much better suited to home use, despite it having commercial mazzer burrs.
I generally have 2 batches of coffee beans on the go at once, plus decaf - you can just swap between beans from shot to shot, just write the grind setting on the bag. The lack of retention also makes it much easier to dial-in in the first instance.
Build quality is really good - although it annoyed me that they didn't Loctite the top bolt.
I am trying to talk myself out of upgrading to a Webber Key next year..... just waiting for the first reviews.
Quick question re. Niche. My portafilter (Sage Barista) is 54. I see supplied cup with Niche is 58? Whats neatest solution? Ta
Most people in this situation Just use a “dosing funnel” on the sage portafilter to effectively expand the diameter. There are loads of these around, but this looks like a neat one for what you want:
My personal favourite Lagom P64, I’m never likely to actually buy one though!
That came after the Niche.
I missed the announcement of the Webber Key, really want one now, annoyed I missed the indiegogo.
Holy cow, the Lagom looks lovely. But I'd have to sell a bike...! 😉
Years ago I was used to working with Super Jollys but my kitchen is nowhere near big enough (or my coffee consumption serious enough) for that to be an option.
I'm seriously considering a Niche. It seems nice and small, robust and good quality. Niche users, has anyone had any parts break? Are there any downsides to owning one? I have no problem buying something expensive if it's durable, i.e. if it does a good job for a long time you forget how much you paid for it. But if it's a bit of kitchen bling that will crumble in a couple of years of light use or cost a lot in consumable parts, I'm reluctant.
@Pierre - I really like mine, but they are not built like the Mazzer tanks are.
They had a bad couple of batches with motor screws loosening, easily fixed with loctite and new batches resolved.
I mentioned in an earlier post, it has a brushed DC motor and plastic gearbox. Brushes are consumables in the long term and the plastic gearing is a potential weak point. Not a huge number of problems with them, but you wouldn’t likely be passing it on to your kids etc.
Thanks @kimura54321, that's good to know. The brushless motor and metal gearbox of the Lagom makes it even more tempting, but given that I'm using a Rhino hand grinder at the moment it feels a bit like considering a Porsche as your first car...!
Plastic gears can be handy (If easily replaceable) in case a stone* gets in - the gears strip before major damage occurs.
Haven’t seen it recommended here - I’ve been using a Baratza Sette for the last year. In terms of noise, retention, adjustability, consistency, it’s been perfect.
*likely not a stone tbh but I stripped the drive gear of my Vario twice in about 5 years and convinced it avoided more damage.
I will say this against the NicheZero - it makes it too easy to brew the coffee based beverage I really fancy right now, and my caffeine intake has skyrocketed.
Time for a decaf iced V60 / cortado con hielo - I’ll fire up the kettle and decide which I’ll actually make when I’m weighing out the beans, dial in the grind, then pull together the bits for either the V60 or the Robot while it’s grinding and be set up before the kettle’s boiled. For a home setup it’s really convenient with remarkably consistent results.
Just use a “dosing funnel” on the sage portafilter
Thanks Batfink
I have a second hand mignon. I'm sure the Niche is nicer but it's more than twice as much so I'd hope it would be.
I just use my mignon with the hopper and weigh the portafilter/dose as I go (when I can be bothered). You start to get a pretty good eye/feel for it though.
I know some people think the beans go off in the hopper but I just half fill it plus we drink around 6 doubles per day between two of us so it doesn't hang around that long.
I know some people think the beans go off in the hopper
It's less that, and more that it retains an amount of ground coffee in the grind chamber and exit chute - so your fresh ground coffee contains a proportion of "stale" coffee grounds.
How much that matters is kinda subjective.
The other thing is being able to switch between different beans easily.
I can see that the Niche Zero does what I want. I think the main question I have is it built like something that should cost £500?
Also I have a nagging feeling that a Mark 2 or 3 of the product would be a better buy.
I think mk2 is the flow-control disk - it makes the grind size more consistent by ensuring there’s an even force pushing beans into the burrs as the hopper empties. Adding the disk was equivalent to tightening the grind by three points in my case. Luckily it was a simple retrofit and they only charged postage for it - they’re now fitted as standard.
It is a really simple machine in many ways - but simple is hard to get right - and that means there’s less to go wrong. It’s a good set of burrs in a solid, well thought out package which I would expect to outlast the Sage grinder by a factor of at least 3 or 4.
It’s been designed to do one thing as well as it can, as simply as it can, at that price point, and without fundamentally changing the philosophy of how it works (e.g. flat burrs), I don’t think there are enough marginal gains to be had to cover the retooling expense, so would be very surprised to see a mk3 or mk4 that was much more than cosmetically different, so don’t think there’s much chance of people upgrading to a newer one in the future.
Only you know if a smoother experience when you make your coffee is worth the price difference - if it is, definitely get a dosing funnel, pouring grinds into a 54mm basket tends to get messy.
You can also make or buy wood kits for the Niche, I had varnished mine to be walnut originally but got a replacement one made from reclaimed skateboards.
Just in case you or your other half are “particular” for some reason regarding colours in your kitchen… 😉
I have that skateboard kit for mine too!
In answer to the OPs question: is it built like a 500 quid grinder..... yes, easily in my opinion. It's built like a tank and there is (virtually) nothing to go wrong.
Put it this way, the Webber Key (link) is the only thing that I'd upgrade to. It's twice the price of the Niche, but I don't really think it would be any better.
You have already convinced yourself to get one