[Closed] Co-workers having a laugh?

Making a profit from a paid for jolly is a bit off, really.

Is it cheaper than buying the driver a beer or 2 though (which I hear is quite expensive in Norway)?

Pay the drivers. Then slash their tyres, call it wear and tear and then stare at them for an un natural length of time (best whilst holding a knife).

But yeah, if its a case of everyone splitting costs, no one should profit from it and the drivers knew the situation when they (presumably) volunteered to drive. When we've done long drives like this we usually split the cost of fuel and the driver doesn't pay for his/her lunch. On a recent trip to the lakes, the guy driving had a puncture and the tyre was destroyed, we offered to chip in but he declined as it is a normal hazard of driving.

It's a big chunk of driving, especially coming back from a physically demanding day on the hill. Hire car might allow more driving to be shared?

tyres, servicing, exhausts, depreciation etc. are all mileage-related costs so some additional per mile is reasonable.

the equivalent motor mileage rates over here are from a tax perspective.
check they have the correct insurance to carry fare paying passengers
ask the drivers if they are intending to declare their income.

easy answer is, yeah shoulda hired a car and everyone pays, perhaps come to that arrangement paying reciepts for fuel/parking and a charge to 'hire' the drivers car.... they do have a point tho regarding insurance...

the social committee at work

See... there's your problem, right there! Sitting there in the very first sentence, like a malignant pus-filled boil

Are you mad? Do you know nothing? Ground rules, my friend... ground rules!

The words 'social' and 'work' should never ever EVER be combined. EVER! And lets be brutally frank about this... nothing...NOTHING has ever benefited from the word 'committee' being added to it. EVER The whole thing can never end well

Just do what everyone else does, and go and do whatever it is you want to do with your mates.

surely if that money is to cover 'wear and tear' and insurance etc., then they haven't made a profit - they have been paid in lieu of their next load of bills.

Why didn't you drive?

Dave

See... there's your problem, right there! Sitting there in the very first sentence, like a malignant pus-filled boil

Are you mad? Do you know nothing? Ground rules, my friend... ground rules!

The words 'social' and 'work' should never ever EVER be combined. EVER! And lets be brutally frank about this... nothing...NOTHING has ever benefited from the word 'committee' being added to it. EVER The whole thing can never end well

Just do what everyone else does, and go and do whatever it is you want to do with your mates.

So true. It's actually the first time I've ever done anything like this with work colleagues.

What's the worst that could happen, I foolishly thought.

costs 40+ p a mile to run a car here. as above - they have not made a profit they have got a contribution to the increased bills that will be coming their way

Binners +1

Ever seen a statue to a committee? Nope. They're all utter $hite. If someone mentions a committee stab them in the face.

surely if that money is to cover 'wear and tear' and insurance etc., then they haven't made a profit - they have been paid in lieu of their next load of bills.

Why didn't you drive?

Since they are making £50 and not paying anything for petrol on a 700km trip I'm a bit sceptical that a journey this long can cause £70 worth of wear and tear.

I didn't drive because I don't have a car. Last few times I've driven to this area I've hired a car and after splitting the costs it's cost less than what they want me to pay for this trip.

I assumed that the reason for car sharing was to reduce costs for everyone.

Other costs in the UK are usually about the same as petrol

With such a mean personality no amount of socialisation will endear him/her to others, in fact it will be the opposite because everyone will avoid him/her from now on ...

costs 40+ p a mile to run a car here. as above - they have not made a profit they have got a contribution to the increased bills that will be coming their way

They weren't acting as a taxi, they had to get to the course too.

Had the passengers simply gotten together and hired cars then the drivers would have still had to get themselves down there, the only difference being they would have to cover all the costs themselves.

Not work related, so the milage allowance does not come into it. Divide up actual cost of petrol and tolls between whoever was in cars, driver pays nothing is a choice.

If you factor in all the car costs then 40p a mile isn't even close, given the cost of a pint of beer and loaf of bread in Norway I shudder to think what tyres cost over there

Don't pay anything and just say you will drive next time! I'm guessing there won't in reality be a next time !!

if you feel so strongly dont go simples..
if you wish to go paying a fair rate such that drivers get some money towards wear and tear on their cars is the norm.
without work you wouldnt be going..
as others have said they arent making a profit as the £50 is covering what is deemed by govt as wear and tear costs..
if you do go and still bemoan someone recieving £50 to cover wear on their car suggest you travel alone on the bus.

TandemJeremy - Member

costs 40+ p a mile to run a car here

No it doesn't.

Just being doing a monthly budget including household costs and business overheads - it took me 30 seconds to pull my vehicle costs from this and I have included:

Fuel
Servicing
Tyres
Road Tax
Insurance

And instead of depreciation I've used the £194 p.c.m that I pay on a loan - based on the fact that I put £5k cash into my motor 2 years ago and if I was to sell it today I would be able to pay off the loan and walk away with the same £5k cash.

Totalling my monthly costs, multiplying by 12 and dividing by the 35k miles I drive p.a. it comes out at 29p per mile - and this is a hulking great 4x4.

*edit* - might have made a slight mis-calculation on estimated mileage and current fuel expenditure, but even adjusted it comes out at 35p per mile - for a very uneconomical car.

Pay them their miserable £50 then let them work out why nobody is speaking to them.

You've gone and one it now TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

he'll be back with more figures than you can shake a stick at and I bet you get fed up 1st - but then you knew that didn't you?

anyway, the OP

jeez, you lot are way over thinking this
Just say to the passengers something like £15 each guys and no arguments about who's sitting in the front
job done

anyone that would argue about whether or not £15 [or whatever] was a fair split, wouldn't be the sort of person I'd want to spend 3 hours in a car with and - vice versa - I wouldn't want to spend that time with anyone that worked it out to the penny either
They must be a bundle of laughs in a restaurant

and Binners is right as usual

Just out of interest, how do people split car costs when driving to the trails with their mates? I've only ever split fuels costs and gratefully accepted a couple of pints if it's been my car. All of my friends do the same. Except the ones who won't take anything since they were going anyway in which case I beat them to the ground and cram a tenner into their mouth.

Anyone out there who charges 40p per km to give their mates a lift?

I know this is semi-work related which, as binners said, is the root of the whole problem. Play with your mates, work with your colleagues, never get the two mixed up 🙂

Anyone out there who charges 40p per km to give their mates a lift?

Anyone that asked like that surely wouldn't be a mate?
Fair enough if someone chips in a bit extra for a beer but to drag everything down to the level of an accountant is a bit off - to say the least.

Get a grip...So with four a car the driver is getting paid £50 plus petrol. So thats costing you £16!!! so thats £16 (plus lodgings) for a Jolly with some work mates. Stop whinging.
As said above the driver will have extra costs (wear on tyres...Set of 4 tyres can easily be £500. If they do 20,000 miles then thats £25 wear per 500 miles. Service your car every 10,000 miles? Well a service is £300..so thats another £15 per 500 miles) and thats just the certainties of cost.

This is a works function and is entirely different to an MTB jolly. If its MTB jolly then equal share of petrol (inc driver) and a pint you you are lucky. I normally work on the maxim of "well I am going there anyway so mates are a bonus".

MTFU and pay up. Onto important stuff...was the course good? (I am jealous and would love to have done it!).

canvas the thoughts of the other attendees and go with the majority. if its in the drivers favour then suck it up, otherwise form a comitee to discuss it

if you feel so strongly dont go simples..

I thinks its a bit late for that, or have you just waded in without reading the OP'spost... 🙄

Six of us did a walk up Snowdon last year, all work colleagues. It made sense to take my 7-seater, so we could use one car. The agreement was that the fuel cost was split such that the driver didnt pay. Wasnt my idea, but everyone was in total agreement & happy to pay.

Tell them to go forth & multiply. Making money out of it is bad.

Get a grip...So with four a car the driver is getting paid £50 plus petrol. So thats costing you £16!!! so thats £16 (plus lodgings) for a Jolly with some work mates.

No, that's me paying £100 and the other passenger paying £100 as well (2 passengers 1 driver). This is before road tolls and parking is added on. And not including food and accommodation, of course.

Onto important stuff...was the course good? (I am jealous and would love to have done it!).

The course was fantastic. I learned loads (not least that I need much more practice using a transceiver) and the conditions were fantastic for some powder action on the way back down.

Confused now... why £100?
If driver making £50 then I get that the cost is £25 per passenger, but wheres the other £75? (Some will be actual cost of petrol).

The tolls I would say should be split 3 ways INCLUDING driver.

For a thing like this I would expect the driver to walk away with a notional net cash amount to cover some of the things above (tyres, service general wear and tear etc) £50 for 600-700km sounds about fair, but from your last post I am not sure if they made more than £50 per driver...if it was £50 per passenger then thats a lot!

Still you had a cracking jolly for not much money so MTFU and stop whinging. 😉

£0.4 x 750km / 3 people = £100 each

The cost of fuel actually used was £150 (generous estimation, probably closer to £120) so passengers cover all the fuel plus another £25 each.

Sounds fair to me.

Actually, messed up the calculation. actual fuel used was £80 (still being generous). Meaning passengers cover all fuel plus £60 each.

I once worked out that my car costs me about 10p a mile in rubber. So that's £37 for your little soiree just on tyres.

I've got to wonder why you didn't agree all this before you went, though. Did everyone agree a price? Fair or not, what's agreed is agreed, surely, can't change it afterwards.

I think they're right to ask for wear and tear costs above fuel; however, I think they're bang out of order to wait till after the even before hiking up their costs. I'd pay what was agreed and tell 'em to do one, I reckon.

10p a mile on TYRES? o_O

Nothing to do with work except that the social committee paid for the course for 12 people...The 4 drivers then came back and said that based on government guidelines for using personal vehicles for work it should be 4kr per km excluding tolls and parking.

As others have observed - it's not for work. It's for pleasure. Splitting petrol and tolls (if they're significant) is the maximum acceptable contribution.

I once worked out that my car costs me about 10p a mile in rubber. So that's £37 for your little soiree just on tyres.

So if you did the typical 12k miles in a year, you'd spend £1200 on tyres !!!!!!!!

I once worked out that my car costs me about 10p a mile in rubber. So that's £37 for your little soiree just on tyres.

Not to criticise your maths but are you sure it doesn't come to £3.70? Basing it on a set of tyres costing £400 and lasting 40,000 miles I make it £4.66 for this trip.

I've got to wonder why you didn't agree all this before you went, though. Did everyone agree a price? Fair or not, what's agreed is agreed, surely, can't change it afterwards.

I think they're right to ask for wear and tear costs above fuel; however, I think they're bang out of order to wait till after the even before hiking up their costs. I'd pay what was agreed and tell 'em to do one, I reckon.

A previous trip was worked out at 25p per mile. I just assumed that we would use this number again.

Having been stewing about this for a while I think there are 3 things pissing me off:

1. The price is OTT
2. We weren't told about this until afterwards
3. The drivers got together and decided on the price rather than consulting others about what they think. Pretty arrogant IMO

Such is life, lesson learned, etc

10p per mile in rubber! £100 per tyre, 4 tyres means you change all your tyres every 4000 miles. Thats pretty good going!

10p per mile in rubber! £100 per tyre, 4 tyres means you change all your tyres every 4000 miles. Thats pretty good going!

He said 10p per mile on RUBBER, not tyres. Perhaps he needs rubber for some dogging activities, maybe wears rubber driving gloves while playing with rubber driving toys.

Have you discussed with the other non drivers? if they all feel the same and there are more non driveres than drivers, pull what you feel they deserve (not nothing) together and there they go. If theyre not paying for any petrol at all then they've got a reasonable deal anyway.
If I'd been driving i would expect to share the fuel costs. With the only perk that the passengers round up and driver rounds down.

He said 10p per mile on RUBBER, not tyres. Perhaps he needs rubber for some dogging activities, maybe wears rubber driving gloves while playing with rubber driving toys.

😆

Have you discussed with the other non drivers?

Yes and people aren't happy with the situation but the Norwegian need to avoid direct confrontation is rearing it's ugly head. Since it's 'only' costing us an extra 400 - 500 NOK each most just want to pay it and sort it out beforehand the next time.

To be fair, the third point I mentioned above maybe isn't arrogance but more of a fear of asking others what they think in case an argument starts. Not really going to work for them in my case since I'm going to tell them each what I think face to face when I see them next.

Sometimes I could do with a couple more Scots in the office.

I'm (kinda) with the drivers on this one.

TAFKASTR's point might be valid for him, but he does 35,000miles/year which will always make the cost per mile less (lots of motorway driving, longer service intervals etc).

Whilst I don't expect any money off people for driving if I'm driving I'd a)expect them to offer way more than I was expecting, I'd considder someone who counted up the fuel cost and divided by number of passengers rude (unless it's a long journey racking up >£100 fuel and they were doing it anyway, in which case its cheeper for everyone), it's worse than someone who asks for a lift and doesn't offer. b)first round/coffee/cake is on then (unless they offered over the odds and I accepted it).

If im driving and using my car for something work has paid for then i expect work to pay me the 40p odd a mile where as if its a social thing with people (by the work or friends) then we go by the way of working in the petrol cost plus parking tolls etc and spliting it by the number of persons. Or the other way we have worked this is to take it in turns to be the driver and cover all the costs that time.

To be fair, the third point I mentioned above maybe isn't arrogance but more of a fear of asking others what they think in case an argument starts.

Going back to the whole point of socialising with people you work with, I'm thinking about what generally constitutes a successfully 'organised' weekend away.....

I don't know about you, but our 'oranisational and planning committee' conversations tend to go like this, after the 5th pint and much rambling in the pub:

"Right! Enough chunering you lot! I'm making an executive decision. We're going to (x) and get there by (y)"

"Well you would say that wouldn't you, cos you're a *ing nob! We're going to (z) and you're not driving, cos we want to actually *ing get there!"

"* you! You dick! We've more chance of actually getting there if I drive! Anyway, I *ing hate (z). Its shit! We're going to (x). Twenty each for petrol. Sorted?"

"Aye ok then. You're still a ****ing dick though. Get the beers in!"

And so on, and so forth. Always works out in the end though. I wouldn't trust it any other way

I'm with the OP on this. 20 to 25p per km is perfectly reasonable (if not excessive IMHO). That 40p figure, or whatever figure TJ like to come up with is based on covering the fixed costs of motoring, which tend to be the expensive bits. I don't see why on a social trip you should be expected to help cover somebody's car loan, when that loan costs them the same amount whether the car goes on a trip or sits on their drive. The trip hasn't cost them 40p a km - it's probably not even cost them 20p a km. I see the comments above about tyres and servicing at a shocking cost of £25 for 500 miles and £15 for 500 miles - well that is only 2.5p a mile and 1.5p a mile, and still dwarfed by the cost of fuel.

If we take the OP's calc of £80 for fuel for 750km at face value (doesn't seem at all unreasonable - at 35mpg that's only 60l of fuel, and Norway isn't significantly different in fuel costs to here), then that's 10.7p/km, leaving 9.3p/km for other costs at 20p/km total. 1.6p/km for tyres, 0.9p/km for servicing - what's the other 6.8p/km covering?

If I've understood correctly, the trip organisor did the calc at 20p/km, but the drivers have unilaterally declared they want the rate for using vehicles for work. Well just point out to them that it wasn't a work trip - it was a trip in their own time. If they want the "using a vehicle for work" rate, then they need to apply to the company for the difference between that and what you're paying them. Clearly if it was for work the company will happily pay...

BTW don't you just love living in a country which uses miles and MPG, yet prices fuel in litres 😀

The guy who was organising the course divided up the transport costs based on a 2kr per km

From what I have read this seems to be the cause of the problem. I've never heard of colleagues reimbursing another colleague on per mile basis. If work weren't paying for the travel costs why did the organiser use this approach? Why not just ask each car to sort it out themselves eg dividing the petrol cost every time they filled up? If the drivers were then not happy to use their own cars they could have requested a few quid for tyre wear or hire cars could have been used.

Lesson learnt to confirm the cost of a trip before you go.

I've never heard of colleagues reimbursing another colleague on per mile basis.

Well there appears to be no obvious difference between this and a trip with non-work colleagues - back in uni (over 20 years ago) we used to calculate club trip costs on a per mile basis, to allow for a bit more than fuel costs. Is actually simpler and fairer than divvying fuel costs and then trying to work out a nominal sum for tyre wear (that's in a situation where the drivers can only just afford to run a car, so need to have their costs covered properly - nowadays I just do fuel and absorb the other costs for goodwill, as it doesn't make a huge difference).