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Out of respect.
TimothyD, the problem with climbing below Severe is that there aren't all that many routes in many locations, so those that are are polished to buggery. With the locations that do have lots of easy routes then they're usually full of beginners/groups/schools and are very busy and polished to buggery too.
Plus climbing VDiffs is a bit boring.. it's a threshold thing. Above a certainly level I start to crap myself and panic; below that I am bored - I can climb a load better than I can handle mentally, if that makes sense.
I spent a long time trying to attack HVS and failing, which could be part of the problem.
Go climbing in the Peak District, the Lakes, Snowdonia or any other "classic" venues. Loads of worthwhile VDiffs to do that aren't polished to a high sheen. If you get up onto one of the Kinder crags for example the grit is as rough as ever, but you're not going to get any big groups making the effort to walk up there. Ditto for countless mountain crags in the Lakes or Wales.
Not previously been part of this thread, so sorry if I've missed the point completely...
Aye grit doesn't polish up too well.
Those places are a long way from me tho, planning a big weekend away is tough these days as I still don't have a climbing partner to hand.
Ah OK. Where are you?
There is one fantastic (nightmarish?) V Diff on Stanage which involves a 5b move to flounder onto a horizontal ledge at little more than head height off the deck. That one shouldn't get too polished by the groups...
It provided much hilarity - but you had to be there.
(Can't remember what it's called and now being "banished" to the NE of Scotland, don't have a Stanage guidebook)
ghastlyrabbitfat - Member
There is one fantastic (nightmarish?) V Diff on Stanage which involves a 5b move to flounder onto a horizontal ledge at little more than head height off the deck. That one shouldn't get too polished by the groups...It provided much hilarity - but you had to be there.
(Can't remember what it's called
That'll be Verandah Buttress... Also try Banana Finger at Burbage (VD 5c IIRC) another 'test piece'...
[i]Aye grit doesn't polish up too well. [/i]
Hmm.. there's a 3* V Diff, I think, I once lead at Stanage - crack and corner - where the foothold for the first move off the ground was like polished marble thanks to repeated slipping off use.No-one told the rock that it doesn't polish up... Then again it's right down the popular end, a starred route and at a low grade, so it's not really that surprising. Plus gritstone routes of severe and below just seem to be messy and random generally. Hmmm...
Are you sure it was Stanage? Sounds just like Crack and Corner at the Roaches upper tier. You can avoid that move tho' for a stunning "out there" final pitch.
I disagree about sub-severe routes being messy. In my experience they often follow the most obvious line of weakness up a crag, which on grit is often a crack (or corner!)
Have you tried Stanage End?
I think that's less frequented,and has slabby climbs which are fairly easy to protect.
Maybe you need to consolidate at VS,and climb as many routes as you can find at that objective grade,and gradually find harder routes near the top end of VS?
Being Sheffield based it's nearish there i know best,and i think there must be loads of routes to have a go on at Burbage and Stanage and Rivelin,and Derwent(?)further out past Rivelin,and on Kinder,and Froggat and Curbar.
Knight's Move at Burbage isn't bad for a VS,the crux is moving past the blankish bit in an unspide down L shape,if you get your runners sorted in the vertical crack below the crux it's a doddle. I didn't get my runner sorted and it fell out,but i was alright because i didn't fall off. 🙂
It is quite a nice climb though. Some consolidation at VS might be what's needed. 🙂
Cheers
Tim
My runner fell out because i dind't extend the wire i'd placed with a sling by the way.
Tim
So rope movement wiggled it loose.
Crack and Corner at stanage (not the roaches one) is one of the most polished routes I've climbed. At a time when I was climbing regularly in the low extremes I fell off that route and landed on my belayer fortunately - from not too high up.
Knight's Move was/ is HVS in my book. Handy as I've bottled it on lead several times. I missed the original Death thread. But it seems Molgrips has a similar problem to me: The Gulf between VS and HVS. It was crazy (I'll explain the past tense later) as I've done new routes in Greenland, South Georgia and am happy pushing it on dodgy/ snow/ ice/ rock in a remote location... but not on an HVS on a local crag!
Loads of great monutain V diffs though. Now 'm older and wser, it's what I enjoy the most. Lost bottle completley these days as/ and rarely go out. When I do, it's to do an easy mountain route.
I'd say don't worry, relax, go and enjoy the big mountain routes and as others have said consolidate at whatever level you are happy at. Mrs Mugsy and I went on a trip to Scotland 22 months ago, we did Agag's Groove and then planned to go and do the Cioch Nose in Applecross. Only there was a big storm, and wild camping there wasn't much to do in a tent in torrential rain. Mini Mugsy is now 13 months old....!
Knights Move (I'm assuming you are talking Burbage here) isn't HVS (imo, sorry).
There's a big difference between VS and HVS (IMO). HVS is where sustained and sometimes technical climbing starts.
You should consolidate at VS and pick your HVS targets carefully (well protected and not too sustained - classic HVS 5a territory). Once you're making reliable progress up these (and can lead VS comfortably), you should be able to push your leading grade (incrementally).
You could always try and tie up with people climbing higher grades. These will drag you up the harder routes but do little for your leading head.
Knights move was my first HVS (as for a lot of people I think) but I'd agree that it's a bit of a soft touch. I've had much harder times on some VSs in the Peak.
Is this turning into a climbing grades debate .... climbing is about movement “It’s…the Roman idea that the gods are not creatures out there in space, they actually come into people and the people become gods—gods of love, gods of war. There’s definitely a climbing god which comes into you in the Roman sense. You don’t know why you’re climbing so well—it’s nothing physical, you could have been porking away for two or three weeks and suddenly you’re climbing brilliantly. It’s not mental, it’s soul, it runs deep. That’s why on-sight climbing is so much more compelling and important than any other climbing. If you want to produce a piece of climbing art, you’ve got to bleed to produce it."
glenh,
I think you're right it's not really HVS,when i climbed it it wasn't,but it was upgraded in the next guide book i think. I was quite pleased just to climb it as an 'upper limit' VS as it was called in my dad's guide book. Whatever the grade i enjoyed climbing it,which is what counts at the end of the day.
I must admit that Stanage is one of my favourite ever places to climb - not too high that I sh*t myself, but still climbing. And the rock's solid and not too fingery.
As for choice of route, I really do enjoy the big mountain routes, and I also like a good bit of top roping.. but the people I used to go with were quite hardcore about it, so I ended up doing that a lot.
Aye, I too have hovered at 'just under' the hard vs level for longer than i care to remember.
Hoping to crack it this year though. said that for the last how many years though... still at least I'm significantly lighter than in the past 5/5 years so hoping that will assist.
Still you can have fun climbing at lower grades, for instance theres a local v diff which you can do vs moves on if you look for 'em. or just the v diff ones if you don't fancy... And Russet Groove springs to mind.
there are good low grades out there but yeah they do tend to see a lot of traffic for the obvious reason.
you need to seek out the less populated obviously.
HTH 😀
Can someone give me a shout when you get to e4. 😉
Ooh, I love a good grade debate.
Is now the time to mention (shhhhh) Three Pebble Slab?
😉
Wharnecliff is a good venue for easy access grit that's not too polished. You can easily spend a whole day there and often not see another party climbing there. It's not as 'pretty' as some of the peak district venues and I think therefore not so popular either. One of my favourite places.
Three Pebble Slab.
Great route - I seem to remember a big pocket near the start of the upper slab which nicely swallows up a Friend 4...
Can someone give me a shout when you get to e4.
Yeah sure, on my way to E5.
doing laps on easy extremes to impress punters on polished classics is a little passe
doing laps on easy extremes to impress punters on polished classics is a little passe
Indeed the chop routes are best.
Indeed the chop routes are best
think that may be a little upsetting if well intended
as to the not quite original post - does depend a bit on where you live but there are lots of quality routes at severe and below - i'd try the rockfax site and look for quality routes - it is hard to try hard on routes that don't inspire - plus find someone or a group that shares your goals - then you can switch leads or (heaven forbid) toprope and have (safe) fun or again improve technical skills thru bouldering together - if your partners aren't supportive meeting goals is hard
think that may be a little upsetting if well intended
Don't be upset. IM unfortunate E the easy routes are the ones who take the casualties. 🙁
or (heaven forbid) top rope
jeez, you might as well just stay at the climbing wall.
howdya think the routes get all polished in the first place?
PS what was the Death Thread about. Can some one post a link?
Don't be upset.
oh no i'm very ok was a bit concerned that the name that shall not be tagged might think you were suggesting he concentrate on chop routes 😉
What's a chop route? *noob alert*
What's a chop route? *noob alert*
A difficult route with little or no protection, where a fall would mean the end.
Oh right, got it 🙂
What's the name for a route with loads of gear that you just miss, and the gear you do put in is badly placed and falls out, thereby making it into a chop route and causing you to spend half an hour faffing about trying to get gear in where you are cos you're too scared to climb any further, to the general annoyance of your belay partner?