Climbing a 4000er

The "easiest" 4000 is, I think,Gran Paradiso in Italy.  I did it with my father when he was in his 50's with a guide for similar reasons.  It's mostly a walk (or at least it was 15 years ago)  with some scrambling at the end.  From memory the final section is pretty exposed though....

Being in Italy the huts and food were abiding memories as well.

<p style="text-align: left;">Lyskamm traverse would be pretty cool - awesome knife edge snow ridge.</p>

Jon I spent all last year planning and prepping for my first 4ooom  which should have been Grand paradiso but as the weather changed 3 days before we were to do it we changed plans . We were supposed to be having a few days in Cham hiking up La Blac and La Junction  to get used to 2500 + air  ready for the next few days but ended up doing Mont Blanc du Tacul and Mont Maudit from the Agi midi lift station .

Im sure you have watched

  and alike to give you an idea    .. 3 hours to hut from Pont stay over  and 4am start has you back at the hut for around 12-1pm   then back to the vally floor knees willing.

With Tucal and Maudit   we were on the first lift at 6.20am   and up the both and back at the lift at 5pm .. frazzled mentally physicly and burnt  even with factor 50 and long sleeves .

Ive done nothing more than Les haunt forts last year in Morzine  Crib Goc, Tryfan, Hyvellyn edges  The Cobbler ridge  in ice last year and a few munros .  I was very nervous as it was me and my son who is a climber but both our first times above above 2500.  We took Diamoxine for a few days before and we had no adverse effects from altitude or the Diamoxine.   The problem we had was at 6am it was 3 degrees   at 3pm with was closer to 25 on the glacier and in places crvasses we passed at 8am were 6 inches  later were 3 foot leaps  of faith .. My lad is cravase rescue ready and has a good mountieering head.   I think as a simply days practice  Du Tucal from the Midi would be an ideal starter  with only a little ice work on the route  maybe  30 metres at the summit which is slightly exposed and a 50 metre climb around 70 degree .

Kit  harness 30m rope a few ice screws  crampons   good alpine boots   b2 b3   . and clothing to suit .

Guides  dont come cheap   Paradiso is one id say all day long no guide needed  .  the chargers were around 600 euros for 48 hours and food and accomadation in the Vittoria emanuelle hut  when my lad looked . ad to that the sense of achievement when we had done it ..  but the slap down to earth was the lad who came past up like we were standing on the lay up and then the speed he hit over the 20 foot cravase jump on his skis ..   bloody locals 😉

Proper pointy- Lion ridge (italian normal route) of the Matterhorn. Not climbed it but looks a good objective, you'd want to build up to it and be acclimatised (as for any >4000m summit). Carrel hut currently closed making the approach significantly longer, but should be open next year.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/matterhorn-2106/southwest_italian_or_lion_ridge-47849#videos

Could make a real event of it by continuing the traverse down the Hornli and finish in switzerland.

A mate did Mont Blanc a few years ago, he went out with some colleagues on an arranged ascent with a guide.

The guide assessed them in the week prior to the ascent and deemed his two colleges not up to it, so just him and the guide summited.

They set off very early for the sunrise.

He had an awesome experience.

There was a pretty detailed thread on this not that long ago but finding it will be harder than the actual climb.

I’m after something aesthetically pleasing – a proper pointy “this is the top”, not a flattish plateau; some decent exposure; some hands on rock (don’t just want a big walk) and obviously a great view once I’m up.

Dialling things back a bit, the west ridge of the Lagginhorn is much more doable than MB or the Matterhorn but still ticks all those boxes...

Its a proper 4000er but easy access, no glacier crossing, bouldery scrambling up to about UK diff and usually some straightforward (but exposed) snow slopes to the summit. With your experience as described you should definitely be up for it given good UK hill fitness and a day or two of acclimatisation.

If you're very quick its possible in a day from the valley via the early lift up to Hohsaas but most people stay at the hut the night before.

The local guides are based in Saas Grund but lots of UK guides also work the area during the season. The Saas valley also has plenty other stuff to do (eg Mittaghorn and Jegihorn VFs) plus Zermatt is just round the corner for your once-in-a-lifetime MTB uplift day there (eyewateringly expensive lift ticket but oh so worth it!)

Does it have to be Europe?

I've not been, but America has some 'easy' walking 4000m+ peaks

@matt_outandabout - realistically, yes. I’d want to tie it into a bigger European trip and I have various political/social issues with America which means I wish to avoid visiting the place, plus the financial and environmental costs of getting there.

Barre des Ecrins?

(I only made it to the Dome - the snowy shoulder on the right - just over 4000m.)

if you didnt say europe, Id say Mt Kinabalu (4095m)in borneo, however that doesnt require any gear at all really, and no altitude training
So why is it people have to prepare for 4000m altitude in Europe?

So why is it people have to prepare for 4000m altitude in Europe?

What altitude do you start Kinabalu from and what is the ascent like?

Most people find going straight to 4000m from sea level pretty unpleasant, throw in steep ground and a few technicalities and you're far more likely to be successful if you get a bit of acclimatisation first.

So why is it people have to prepare for 4000m altitude in Europe?

You don't really but at 4000m you can get problems. I have only ever been up to about 3700m and it is noticeably harder to get the O2 in.

Like they said you don't *have* to,  going straight to 4000m you're unlikely to have life threatening issues if you're in good health but you might feel fairly rotten especially if staying up overnight (I did!) For most people it only takes a couple of day trips over 3000m to kick start acclimatisation.

Dunno anything about Kinabalu but if there's a particular issue with Europe I'd suspect it's just the accessibility of alpine peaks from low altitude via lifts etc rather than walking in progressively.

I have had altitude sickness at 3500ish m.  We did drive up from sea level in a day.  Only slight - headache and nausea.  4000m is plenty high enough to notice the lower 02 / get altitude sickness but it doesn't need much acclimatisation to avoid this -   a few days later I went thru a pass walking at 3700m

A little bit further afield, but only a few hundred miles out of Europe - Mt Toubkal in Morocco. Is over 4000m, normally can climb in 2 days up and 1 down. Snow covered in winter and probably no snow in summer.

Pretty easy to get to from Marrakech, can drink nice mint tea in the mountains, has an excitingly foreign feel to it - you can hear the call to prayer on the slopes.

All very beautiful.

A very pointy 4000m point would be Dent du Geant. All rock with some fixed ropes. Ab descent. Not a classic big mountaineering day out but certainly pointy. 👍

My Toubkal, Morroco. Did it in snow, no mountaineering experience needed. But did use crampons and axe.
We did it with a guide, mule and handler. Took a three day trek. Wasn’t too expensive as far as I remember. Was brilliant. Huts and local guest houses. Can certainly be done without a guide if you are reasonably clued up.

Beaten to it. 🤣

Toubkal is a great suggestion....I did it in 2016 although I'm lead to believe that things have changed somewhat since then (compulsory to book a guide now?)

I've been that high a few times and it's a great experience. Take your time gaining altitude and all should be fine. With your description of experience etc a guide is a good shout....I'd not be messing around with Mont Blanc personally, although I'm saying that having not done it.

What altitude do you start Kinabalu from and what is the ascent like?

the start is at 1866m,and its walking up most of the way,or easy scrambling, though ive nothing to compare it to
certainly less technical than striding edge helvellyn, which is about my limit at the moment, it looks like most of these peaks will remain out of reach for me

Sounds like you have the technical ability and fitness but are short on experience in route finding and evaluating objective risks. A guide will be delighted to work with you. In France there will be a bureau des guides in all the areas with 4000m peaks. There are lots of peaks under 4000m many of which will at least as challenging/interesting to climb and on which you won't get a headache the first time you go up.

4000m is a really dodgy zone at present as the permafrost that keeps the mountains in one piece is melting due to climatic change which is leading to very high levels of stone fall and landslides in addition to the usual glacial terrain risks. I simply wouldn't do some of the routes I did 30 years back due to the increased objective risk.

Monch or Jungfrau both fit the bill, though it's a few years since I was on them so don't know what the conditions are like these days.

Just consulting the member of the team with a better memory.. It was a four day trek that we did. Up to the French Club hut, never been so cold in my life, it was practically empty. Us and a bunch of scouts from Warwickshire, who were great.

Early start, summit, walk down and then on to a few villages, over night and back to a bustling town for the best tagine I have ever had..

Marrakech, for R&R in a nice rhiad.

Also can recommend Toubkal. Can also go to marrakech afterwards which is well worth a visit.

You don’t really but at 4000m you can get problems. I have only ever been up to about 3700m and it is noticeably harder to get the O2 in.

Well I recall getting a bit out of puff climbing the stairs in the Torino hut.

Toubkal is well worth a trip (and it was my first 4000er) but won't meet the OP's "hands on rock" criterion - it's just a big rough walk really

Go big or go home?

I had Acotango on the bolivian altiplano on my bucket list,  All planned and ready to go until "events" took over.

Non technical but one of if not the easiest 6000m peak..  You do your altitude training in the bars in la Paz.  🙂

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acotango

I’ve not been, but America has some ‘easy’ walking 4000m+ peaks

That’s certainly true, I’ve done 2514 m up to 3124 m on my bike! 😎

I have only ever been up to about 3700m and it is noticeably harder to get the O2 in.

Oh, yes! I did a little sprint up the last little slope, and I thought I was having a heart attack, my heart was thumping furiously, my vision started to go dark with little sparkly lights! I was really scared, because the others I was with had taken the Worlds DH route, and I’d chickened out, leaving me by the side of the Mid-Vail cable car tower. After draughting my last will and testament, and leaving a note, saying “Dear oxygen, having a lovely time, wish you were here.”, I got my breath back, but it took ten or so minutes before I could start riding back down.
Not an experience I’d like to repeat.

I spent several weeks in Manali which is approx 2000m, then hiked up the Parvati Valley to about 3250m over the course of a week which was fine. Rode the motorbike up to the top of the Rohtang Pass which is 3980m and decided to hike the last 20m so I could get to +4000m. That was really tough. Don’t underestimate the effects of altitude.

I’ve not been, but America has some ‘easy’ walking 4000m+ peaks

Been MTBing in the US at over 4000m!

Thanks all. Barre des Ecrins looks like it might well fit the bill. Lagginhorn too. (Barre des Ecrins is in the area I'm likely to be in at the right time though!)

A few friends have done Mt Toubkal - definitely a walk rather than a climb if they've done it (some of the group were wearing white trainers in their summit pic, so its probably not what I'm looking for at this point)

Altitude. I'm well aware of its effects. I've run up hill through snow at 3000+m to find my bike on the Mega (and regretted it!!). Last week I was walking in the Alps and was definitely getting short of breath going uphill at 2.5k+ when it got a bit scrambly.

4000m is a really dodgy zone at present as the permafrost that keeps the mountains in one piece is melting due to climatic change which is leading to very high levels of stone fall and landslides in addition to the usual glacial terrain risks. I simply wouldn’t do some of the routes I did 30 years back due to the increased objective risk.

Again, sort of aware of this - I've read about dodging rockfall on the Grand Couloir(?) and it's one of the reasons I've discounted Mont Blanc.

Skills wise, I suspect I'll be OK with the actual climbing (providing I'm fit enough!)- but have no experience of doing stuff like constructing a belay (understand the principles though), glacier travel, dealing with crevasses etc - so that's the kind of thing I'd like guidance on from, well, a guide!

When living in southern Germany, me and Mrsd WF met some mates form the UK and headed to Switzerland to bag us a 4000er. We drove up the Grimsel pass and along the one way road to the Oberaarsee reservoir where we left the cars. Headed up the glacier to the Oberaar Hut for thge night. Early next morning we climbed the peak (Oberaarhorn, 3631m) behind the hut before breakfast, which was a great exercise in acclimatisation. After breakfast we trekked across the ice field and over a pass to the Flescher Glacier and on to the Finsteraarhorn Hut. From there we climbed the Finsteraarhorn (4274m) and were back for lunch. We then walked back to the cars the next day in one hit.

Nothing particularly difficult. Need a head for heights and ability to move as a group/pair on a rope on the ridge and across the glacier. And of course be competent in self and team rescue should it all go pear shaped. Guessing if not then you would need to hire a guide.

Barre des Ecrins looks like it might well fit the bill. Lagginhorn too. (Barre des Ecrins is in the area I’m likely to be in at the right time though!)

Mont Pelvoux is 54m short of 4000m but it's a very good easy peak in the Ecrins. I did it solo un a day from the Ailfroide campsite. Pic Coolidge is another good, easy peak with great views.

I did that Lagginhorn route a few years ago and it wasn't that great, I think it was a bit too much of a walk. I certainly wouldn't recommend it as a guided bucket list tick. The Barre Des Ecrin normal route however is fantastic, you'll really feel like you've achieved something. Big slog up the glacier to a superb summit ridge traverse. The Barre Noire Couloir is a superb alternative to the glacier slog.

BMC Summit mag has a good article on five alpine peaks for for walkers, some of which are over the magic 4K.  You'll need to be a member to access it online or I can send you my copy before it heads for the recycling. DM and post here if you're interested.

Lagginhorn
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Barre Des Ecrin
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Breithorn 4163m, near Zermatt. No hands on rock, but it will easily get you a 4000er. This is probably the easiest and most accessible hill of that height. Go up on the first cable car of the day at 06.00 and you can be down by lunchtime. My son led me there when I was 63.