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I feel that everyone has a right to protest, but some of their tactics are very questionable - I doubt that holding up commuters, that just want to get home, is really going to endear themselves to the public.
I wonder if this guy got a good kicking when he was pulled off the train? It certainly doesn't look like they were helping him up and dusting him off!!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50079716
As for the ones that superglued their hands to the train - very risky.... not having skin would be painful.
I am struggling with the usefulness of this as a protest.
Cars yup.
City Airport double yup.
Tube though seems a bit counterproductive.
As for the ones that superglued their hands to the train
Is superglue even Eco friendly ?
(other kinds of glue are available)
Agreed, utterly daft thing to do. Could have just glued themselves to a zebra crossing or something and actually made a point by forcing people onto the tube or to cycle.
Is superglue even Eco friendly ?
Not really by the time you've soaked it off with a litre of acetone. And the resprayed the train door.
Kind of my first thoughts, targetting the tube where you'd think they'd prefer people to head rather than into cars.
Unless I'm missing something?
I wonder if this guy got a good kicking when he was pulled off the train?
I think they were just helping him off then the public each showed him their shoes in succession 😆
It certainly doesn’t look like they were helping him up and dusting him off!!
They were dusting him off with their shoes. 😆
As for the ones that superglued their hands to the train – very risky…. not having skin would be painful.
Ouch! That will hurt if the public pull them off.
Agreed, utterly daft thing to do
Yep, the majority of XR appear to agree with you as well. The downside of being comprised of small groups is that sometimes they will do things that don't make sense to others. This was probably very counterproductive for them 🙁
Yeah, I didn’t think this was a strong look either.
Have to say, I find the ease at which a crowd will lynch someone disrupting their day (have only watched the same video as everyone else - didn’t look like they were just saying “look chap, we need to get to work...on your way now...”) quite worrying. Some responses on various twitter postings of the video were pretty alarming.
Seems very odd to target the public transport but they do seem to have some ‘splinter groups’ which do their own thing.
Not sure it warrants a kicking that’s like beating up a cyclist because you couldn’t overtake them on the road.
Think of the carbon saving of just throwing one idiot under a tube train.
I expect quite a few of the protestors themselves are thinking that when they see someone in their name trying to disrupt public transport. You almost have to wonder if it's actually some climate change denying nutjob trying to sabotage the whole thing.
Whoever chose Canning Town as their target location clearly hadn't thought it through.
Whoever chose Canning Town as their target location clearly hadn’t thought it through.
The Extinction Rebellion variant of Mornington Crescent.
Whoever chose Canning Town as their target location clearly hadn’t thought it through.
Agreed, they must be Barking.
Surely the point is to get people on public transport? I agree wit most of their points but this just seems quite badly thought out
Whoever chose Canning Town as their target location clearly hadn’t thought it through.
Agreed, they must be Barking. Certainly made himself un Poplar.
Have to say, I find the ease at which a crowd will lynch someone disrupting their day (have only watched the same video as everyone else – didn’t look like they were just saying “look chap, we need to get to work…on your way now…”) quite worrying. Some responses on various twitter postings of the video were pretty alarming.
Surely you understand that there are potential repercussions to every decision people take?
The protests by XR in London (and elsewhere) have been going on for quite a while now and, I'd imagine, are affecting those who can't afford to take time off/use alternative modes of transport/etc quite a bit. What we're likely seeing is the repercussions of decisions made by members of XR.
As an aside, the first guy who was pulled off the top of the Tube quite clearly kicked someone in the head. So we see someone make a decision (to kick someone else in the head) and the repercussions were a reply in kind.
Whether the commuters should be dragging the XR protesters off the Tube is another comment I've seen banded around and, attached to that if without a hint of irony, the complaint that the Police should be protecting the protesters from such actions. As the XR protesters are breaking the law isn't is right that (morally speaking if not legally) that members of the public step in to prevent such criminality?
Ultimately I find it immensely ironic that, after all the accusations of the Police being heavy handed with regards to the XR protests we now have some XR protesters decrying the lack of protection they're being given from those most affected by their actions.
stick to protesting against those who create the problem
Aslef spokesperson the ball there
Very dangerous climbing on top of a tube train. He'd be fried if he fell onto the tracks on the other side. Stupid protest this time.
The irony of "climate" protestors blocking access to electric public mass transport broke my irony meter.
Which reminds me; I wonder what Jesus and Mo' think of this:
Are we really talking about extinction? I don't think so.
Are we really talking about extinction? I don’t think so.
Doesnt make much difference whether its 100% or 0.0000000001% if youre the dead one.
some ‘splinter groups’ which do their own thing.
This
Are they not just rebels without a clue using XR for their own stupidity.
"Using XR"
You can't really have a genuinely distributed movement with no leaders and then claim people don't represent you.
good to hear it is not XR as I think they have been doing a good job so far.
The plonkers blocked the Metrolink in Manchester over the summer - why. They should be encouraging public transport.
Proper own goal today.
Supporting actions which disgust the majority of their supporters, hurt the causes for which they were set up, and will never be forgotten by their enemies.
Is Seumas Milne in XR?
Good job it wasn't George Monbiot on top of that train or there might have been a genuine lynching.
Good job it wasn’t George Monbiot on top of that train or there might have been a genuine lynching.
He would just have lobbied for a moratorium on the lynching.
Tube though seems a bit counterproductive.
I can see their logic, they see it like suffragetts throwing themselves under horses on race day. Horses can't give them the vote, the people betting on horses by and large can't give them the vote, the king who's horse it was can't give them the vote.
But it get's your cause newspaper column inches which makes it harder to ignore. Still better ways to do that though. Print a few thousand thank-you notes (on recycle paper obviously) and hand them out to commuters at train stations, cyclists, vegan bakery customers, you trap more flies with honey than shit etc.
I was born in Canning Town and have spent most of my life either close by or there.
They really should of picked somewhere else.
Have to say, I find the ease at which a crowd will lynch someone disrupting their day quite worrying.
People defying the law to take direct action to correct a situation they think is wrong. Totally, totally different to XR...
As the XR protesters are breaking the law isn’t is right that (morally speaking if not legally) that members of the public step in to prevent such criminality?
There's a few shades of gray (corporal punishment pun intended) between upholding the law and vigilante public beatings.
I saw a video on FB earlier today of one of the protesters being manhandled off the train and then getting a few good kicks and he made his way through the crowd. I say fair enough and I'd do the same.
Genuine question that has always puzzled me with all protesters but how do these people get money? Do they work a night shift and protest during the day, students, funded by somebody?
Geography teachers on half term?
Apparently police arrested 8 protestors who had stuck themselves together outside the Supreme Court. Tbh it seems counterproductive - surely better to just chase them around and see how much they enjoy being stuck together in daily life...
Print a few thousand thank-you notes (on recycle paper obviously) and hand them out to commuters at train stations, cyclists, vegan bakery customers, you trap more flies with honey than shit etc.
That's an excellent idea
Apparently police arrested 8 protestors who had stuck themselves together outside the Supreme Court. Tbh it seems counterproductive – surely better to just chase them around and see how much they enjoy being stuck together in daily life…
leave them in a cell glued together and wait until one of them has to go to the loo...
See how they manage that 🙂
I agree their tactics are questionable and against the wrong target, but the sight of people being assaulted by a mob is, to my mind at least, very disturbing. Welcome to Britain 2019...
A tad misguided yes, but we are talking about them aren't we. There is no such thing as bad publicity!
A tad misguided yes, but we are talking about them aren’t we. There is no such thing as bad publicity!
True, its bad publicity for them as a group, but as a 'cause' I doubt anyone is going to go out and buy a Mustang because they disagree with their methods.
There is no such thing as bad publicity!
I think this is the perfect counter-argument to that old chestnut.
I'm sure many others within the movement will be dismayed.
There is no such thing as bad publicity!
Ahem, Gerald Ratner
I know a lot of people use that phrase without thinking, but you must know that its completely untrue, right?
edited to remove weird blockquote
People defying the law to take direct action to correct a situation they think is wrong. Totally, totally different to XR…
I guess that must have sounded quite clever in your head.
Bless.
Still talking about them.
Just saying.
People would still be talking about them if they'd been kicking puppies.
Just saying.
surely better to just chase them around and see how much they enjoy being stuck together in daily life…
I think the should have just been left alone and ignored, at some point they would have realised that one of them needed a wee/poo/to eat/go home/etc.
I agree with them for the most part but the tube is daft- it's mass transit ffs. Yes the idea was to be very visible but there's smarter ways to do that.
I disagree with the people who say that inconveniencing the public is a bad idea; you hear the same about strikes, and tbf if you go along with that you basically turn yourself irrelevant, nobody will ever notice you if you're not a pain in the arse.
I agree their tactics are questionable and against the wrong target, but the sight of people being assaulted by a mob is, to my mind at least, very disturbing. Welcome to Britain 2019…
What did they honestly think was going to happen eventually? Two weeks of disruption to the daily lives of Londoners, many who don't have the luxury to take a few weeks off to go and protest something, culminating in some idiots jumping on top of the Tube and in doing so stopping you getting home from or to work?
It's all well and good claiming the right of peaceful protest (although kicking someone in the head is an odd form of peaceful protest) but eventually the reality that your actions are having a very real impact on the general public is going to lead to a backlash.
XR were being tolerated by many Londoners, but XR decided to up the ante and take their protests beyond the agreed protest sites. You can't claim the freedom to protest unhindered within a civil society when you step outside the agreements made with said society, to both allow your protest and reduce its impact on those who don't share your view.
Actions have consequences or, to put it another way...play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The Met Police have previously infiltrated environmental protest groups, and encouraged them to take more illegal action.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2018/oct/15/uk-political-groups-spied-on-undercover-police-list
Shot themselves well and truly in the foot with this one. All its done is wind up frustrated commuters and any eco thoughts they were having will have well and truly been over written with "those eco-loons made me late for work/hospital appointment etc"
Ahem, Gerald Ratner
The exception that proves the rule?
Still talked about 28 years later and has a successful career as a public speaker.
If you think that level of disruption to your commute is unaccaptable, you're going to bloody hate the results of climate change, tube cancelled due to Thames on the lines
Northwind
Subscriber
If you think that level of disruption to your commute is unaccaptable, you’re going to bloody hate the results of climate change, tube cancelled due to Thames on the lines
Do you really believe that will happen?
JP
Probably will result in lots of new signage for the trains explaining how dangerous it is to climb on the roof as it clearly isn't obvious to some people. Its highly likely it will result in a good kicking from the commuters assuming you don't fall off and get hit be a train, the ground or zapped by the live rail. Might need a whole new coach for all the signage needed. Not very environmentally friendly really.
Do you really believe that will happen?
Do you believe it will not?
If you think that level of disruption to your commute is unaccaptable, you’re going to bloody hate the results of climate change, tube cancelled due to Thames on the lines
Do you really believe that will happen?
Yes, absolutely yes
and for those that don't - is it worth the risk of being wrong. This isn't a case of saying "oops, sorry". The world is going to be ****ed, on our watch, and we are worried about getting to work on time 🙁
"Do you really believe that will happen?"
Already has, a lot of the tube stations were closed due to flooding last week.
"Two weeks of disruption to the daily lives of Londoners,"
I haven't noticed much disruption in the City, a couple of extra beardy people on bikes maybe, but nothing compared to a broken down car on one of the bridges, when a bus hits a cyclist, or even a football match.
If you want disruption you should try commuting on Northern Rail 😂
Already has, a lot of the tube stations were closed due to flooding last week.
Were they? If so, it was rain, not the Thames overflowing...pretty sure that would have made the news, as a result of the billions of pounds of damage it would have caused
Were they? If so, it was rain, not the Thames overflowing…pretty sure that would have made the news, as a result of the billions of pounds of damage it would have caused
What do you think the thames barrier is for?
I disagree with the people who say that inconveniencing the public is a bad idea; you hear the same about strikes, and tbf if you go along with that you basically turn yourself irrelevant, nobody will ever notice you if you’re not a pain in the arse.
There are more intelligent ways of protesting that don’t involve being assholes to your most likely supporters, like energy providers, more polluting forms of transportation, like airlines, shipping, road freight, etc.
Causing mayhem on the Tube, however...
There are more intelligent ways of protesting that don’t involve being assholes to your most likely supporters, like energy providers, more polluting forms of transportation, like airlines, shipping, road freight, etc.
Causing mayhem on the Tube, however…
Its interesting in that this wasnt what the majority of XR wanted but they aren't a dictatorship. Apparently the people who took this action knew yesterday that the majority of XR didn't want it, they had been given the data on the polls on this and had each been talked to individually but it was still their choice to go ahead. It sounds like most of the XR folks would agree with everything you say
I disagree with the people who say that inconveniencing the public is a bad idea
Yes, quite. People are labouring under the impression that this is a popularity contest.
Are they not just trying to disrupt the capitalist machine?
I find deadlydarcy's snowflake attitude a bit odd, seeing as the protester wasn't afraid to draw first blood and kick someone in the face, I call it karma for stopping people getting home, going to work or getting to an appointment, they need to realise all the consequences and affects of their protests on decent people, if I did what that protester did I'd expect and deserve a good beating, he got off lightly IMO, surely that protest has to be the most ironic one so far, the fact that one protest was even using a generator says everything about these xr morons. Nothing they do will matter or change anything.
And they even print their flyers on paper, from, you know, the rainforest!
I think XR missed the mark with the tube protest.
If you think that level of disruption to your commute is unaccaptable, you’re going to bloody hate the results of climate change ....
Combined with comments about raising awareness, sparking debate, getting publicity, disrupting the capitalist machine this is heading in a worrying direction that I can't support.
Sadly climate change is likely already killing people around the world and will kill many more. It seems that fact could justify a pretty nasty response from the more extreme end of XR:
2019- XR agree action is needed to raise awareness of looming climate disaster. XR disrupt the commute of workers at CT (I guess more likely to be junior analysts, admin staff, cleaners, catering staff, security guards, maintenance workers etc rather than decision makers). Commuters who don't appreciate XR's enlightened actions are given a gentle kick in the head to avoid the protest being inconsequential.
2020- XR are shocked little has changed. G7 meeting doesn't even have climate change on the agenda. It's clear more action is required. XR activists up the ante by (non-violently) handcuffing themselves to a senior banker for a few hours until bank agrees to dump coal power station investments.
2021- XR are shocked little has changed. ....
I am concerned about the environment and generally support taking measured and targeted action. I think the paralympian guy's stunt climbing on a plane at LCY was ok. The 10 or so firemen, police and airport workers standing round looking confused was mildly amusing to me. If I was heading off to Malaga for a jolly in the sun I would be questioning my choice and maybe feeling guilty. I definitely wouldn't have a problem with the guy.
I ride to work but think I'd be pretty annoyed if I were a commuter at CT. I definitely wouldn't be thinking "my 1.2kwh* share of electricity for this tube journey is destroying the planet so I will walk tomorrow" or "I will stop working until the boss of my company refuses to deal with Trafigura- my kids will thank me". Having said that, I like to think I would have been protecting the protester from getting kicked while he was on the ground. By contrast at Devon's Rd a group of people sometimes serve free hot drinks on cold mornings and nights. I assume it's a church group and even though I won't be going to the church I keep intending to stop and hear their message.
I think action and "rebellion" have their place but I think domestically XR should be encouraging people to make more environmentally friendly decisions for themselves and *helping* them do it.
Internationally I don't know what the solution is. I get London is a target because of its global influence but annoying some DLR commuters doesn't seem that effective.
* Estimated from https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1482-1819 and https://madeby.tfl.gov.uk/2019/07/29/tube-trivia-and-facts/
I think action and “rebellion” have their place but I think domestically XR should be encouraging people to make more environmentally friendly decisions for themselves and *helping* them do it.
I think their point is that we are beyond the point where a few less plastic straws and taking the bus to Asda will cut it any more. we need to be moving faster but it requires political willpower rather than an organic change of willpower amongst the general population. It's a tough message they are trying to push
[apologies in advance for a rant :)]
it requires political willpower rather than an organic change of willpower amongst the general population
OK but even for a political diktat they need wider support than they have at the moment (in any approximation of democracy).
Their demands [ https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/ ] sound naive to me even though I believe we already have serious ecological and climate issues.
I wonder which group of people should be denied powered travel first (mountain bikers in T5s will be pretty low priority I hope then at least this forum will be more bike focused :)). Or which NIMBY communities should get a new nuclear power plant nearby. Or which farms should be compulsory purchased for afforestation. Or what industries are worthy of electricity. [...]
Stuff like this needs to be figured out and implemented before 2025, essentially with today's technology- no cold fusion allowed!
Making the working class lose money, possibly their job, miss important appointments and job interviews is no way to get the public onside, they've just lost the public support. 95% of the population are against their actions. Attacking the cleanest form of public transport and angering the general public is a complete backfire and a retarded way to show us a glimpse of our dystopian future if we don't change our ways, even if we do ban fossil fuels what's stopping supervolcano's from erupting and wiping us all out anyway.
XR disrupt the commute of workers at CT (I guess more likely to be junior analysts, admin staff, cleaners, catering staff, security guards, maintenance workers etc rather than decision makers).
You’ve never been to London have you?
I know one decision maker who drives to work. All the others walk, cycle or use public transport. The vast majority of this who drive are those who are given tasks.
I know and work with/ for people responsible for/ controlling/ spending billions of pounds.
LOL @aP ... I'm ashamed for taking the bait but whatever-
1. 8th year in east London.
2. My quote is specifically about the tube from Canning Town (CT in case that's not obvious). Sure there has been a lot of regeneration in the area and if you only see the new build flats going up you might be forgiven for thinking the area is awash with those "controlling spending billions". However,
[..] Canning Town and Custom House are among the five percent most deprived areas in the UK. Residents suffer from poor health, low education and poverty. 17 percent of the working age population have a limiting long-term illness, 17.5 percent claim income support and 49.7 percent of 16- to 74-year-olds have no formal qualifications.[12]
I expect you will reply with several examples of senior colleagues who live in CT and take the Jubilee to CW- yeah sure fine, but that's not contradicting what I said.
3. Re. your last sentence- simply LOL.
OK but even for a political diktat they need wider support than they have at the moment (in any approximation of democracy).
I'd say it's not about XR getting public support. They aren't running for office. They don't need to have a comfy slogan. It's about one way or another making people realise that there's a crisis and then doing what is required. It's sad if indeed it's necessary for people to be given a free cup of coffee and an organic muffin before they'll act to save the planet.
OMG I just looked at the photo and take back my comment- seems I made a mistake.
They're covering their faces well but I spotted some senior figures getting a good shoe in. I forgot they're well known to stay in Canning Town on their frequent visits to Canary Wharf. Even a guy who lives in Kensington is there at Canning Town being disrupted.
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Are they not just trying to disrupt the capitalist machine?
people work and use public transport under socialist machines as well...
I've been supporting this lot ever since last black friday when I bought my IPhone XR 🙂
even if we do ban fossil fuels what’s stopping supervolcano’s from erupting and wiping us all out anyway.
It's only a matter of time whatever we do.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction
Worth a read...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/20/extinction-rebels-have-noble-casue-what-they-dont-need-is-tactical-stupidity
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction
that's really going to happen - lots of people may die but extinction ain't going to happen...