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So with the current heatwave we've got here in the UK and countless other heatwaves/freak weather events in other countries like Australia and the US I've been pondering today...
At what point do people start to change behaviours, not just in the paying it lip service sense, but people starting to make noticeable changes to their lifestyle to try and counter things?
I'm not talking just buying a car with slightly better fuel economy but actually doing away with the car and dealing with the inconvenience of it?
Obviously, some people have already started to make changes with the way they live their lives. Others don't believe in climate change and carry on as they were. Some think it's pointless with China/India producing huge amounts of emissions.
Are we at the point where we're screwed as a race or will we turn things around?
Unfortunately I think the number of people who will be actively hindering their lives to a great extent purely for the good of the species/planet will be too low to have any meaningful impact.
Any big changes will need to be the result of government legislation, or as a reactive measure to already occuring events.
Are we at the point where we’re screwed as a race
Nope.
We're past it.
At what point do people start to change behaviours, not just in the paying it lip service sense, but people starting to make noticeable changes to their lifestyle to try and counter things?
Never. You change because it is in your nature. Others cannot change because it is in their nature.
Are we at the point where we’re screwed as a race or will we turn things around?
Turn things around? What do you offer in return?
Let it burn! Burn! Burn!
It's simple. We're screwed unless they can find a way to make a shit load of money out of fighting Climate Change be that mitigation, migration, green tech, transition risk litigation etc etc
If the major corporations of the world can monetise it, we've got half a chance of not living in boil in the bag world.
I'm so glad I don't have kids cos they're inheriting a right shit show.
Nope.
We’re past it.
Sadly, I think this.
I think we're done for. May as well enjoy the decline!
Without a complete change in how society works. Which is never going to happen.
What IHN said. Humans are lost cause, I just want to do what I can to help everything else that lives on this planet
Meh. Planet's ****ed.
Me and OH are doing as much as we can (no car, no flights, no kids, no pets) but there are still fat, lazy, cheap meat guzzling biffers chuffing on single use vapes, driving their tribe of unruly kids to and from the school that's just round the corner. If they aren't arsed about the future for their own kids' sake then I sure as **** couldn't give a shit either, me and OH will be long gone, thankfully.
And there are people on here still flying to ride their bikes, FFS.
Someone on the speeding thread said:
The big thing people con themselves with is the idea that ‘everyones doing it’
Or rather they con themselves that no one is doing it. Which I suspect is a big part of the problem.
Take this hypothetical scenario.
Adam sees Bob driving a T5 van around, trips to the west coast of Scotland, trail centers, some skiing in Aviemore WHERE THEY'VE GOT A GIANT OUTDOOR AC UNIT TRYING TO KEEP AN ENTIRE HILLSIDE FROZEN IN THE FACE OF GLOBAL WARMING, DO YOU NOT SEE THE IRONY IN THIS, etc. He sees Charlie living in a big 4 bed house with the heating turned up to 22C. He sees Dave going on trips aboard several times a year. He sees Ewan eating steak off the BBQ.
So Adam does f*** all, because in no single way is he the worst person in his circle. Even if all his friends have cut back on other vices. Then view it from the other 5's perspective and none of them do anything.
Personally:
-veggie, and make an effort to reduce imported fresh food and aim to throw nothing away.
-haven't driven my car at all in a month, haven't driven for personal non-work use since December I think. Getting around via trains, bikes and car sharing.
-had my first trip abroad since 2015 this year for a friends wedding.
-house has been insulated as well as it practically can be and heating kept at 18C, and passive heating via the south facing conservatory maximized in spring/autumn by having the door open during the day. Those nice infographics on the back of the bills seem to suggest we're far to the left on the bel curve for energy and water consumption.
And there are far too many people, like 7 billion too many. I thought I'd be the first in with that one 😊
Without a complete change in how society works. Which is never going to happen.
The ones that annoy me most are the lefties*, who when actually presented with the idea that they could make some sacrifices to make things better for the rest of civilization as a whole. Come out with things like this.
No, we definitely don't have time to wait for your 6th form politics to overthrow then entire global capitalist system** before you make any changes to your own lifestyle.
*I've no idea what jambourgie's politics are
We're all totally screwed. It's far too late and all this net zero tosh won't do anything.
Individual action is basically pointless.
The current weather is being caused by events from the last century. Even changing now, temperatures will still go up and up for years to come.
Only thing we can do is
Stop all fossil fuel usage across the globe immediately.
Re-forest 50% of the earths landmass in the next 10 years.
Reduce the global population by 50% in 5-10 years.
Obviously, none of these things will happen, so we're all doomed.
Reduce the global population by 50% in 5-10 years.
I reckon it needs to be closer to 99.9%.
IHN : Nope.
We’re past it.
Can’t argue against this, we breached the tipping point years ago and anything we do now is akin to pissing on the fire to put it out
finephilly
Free MemberOnly thing we can do is
Reduce the global population by 50% in 5-10 years.
Aye nae bother Thanos! 😆
I wonder if this is why the bellends in charge are so blatantly not giving a shit about trying to run the country, instead being as blazen as could be about robbing the country's purse blind and feathering their best mates' nests with dubious un-tendered PPE contracts in the faint hope they can somehow shield themselves from the worst of the shit we're about to experience.
There's a certain amount of issues locked in already. It's about not making it worse and heading for run away problems. tbh. But whatever we do now probably won't have a noticeable effect for hundreds of years. It takes time for all the carbon and methane to settle back out of the atmosphere and what ever loops are involved.
Which is why it's such a difficult sell really. Even if we stopped all emissions tomorrow the effects will last a long time.
Humans are lost cause
Well the fact that over 7000 languages are spoken tells you all you need to know about the stupidity of humans.
One species with one language which is easily understood by all obviously makes supreme sense. And yet the inability of humans to use one common language to easily communicate with each other is actually celebrated as some sort of huge positive achievement.
Put half a dozen of the world's most intelligent humans in one single room together and there is a reasonable chance that they won't be able to communicate between themselves beyond a very basic ape-like level.
What chance to tackle serious and complex global issues when humans are stuck in the knuckle-dragging values of tribal identity?
ernielynch
Free MemberOne species with one language which is easily understood by all obviously makes supreme sense.
If you are after a mono culture. I prefer a diversified world myself, and language is a big part of that.
It'll take governments to make concerted efforts to help force/shape the change we need...but as the race for next PM has highlighted - they are intend to reduce things to help improve climate as it isn't what the people want...
People as individuals can change but it'll take the vast majority to do so and that needs a plan and enforcement.
If you are after a mono culture. I prefer a diversified world myself
Who said anything about a monoculture with no diversity?
I said one language which all humans understand, how the **** doesn't that make sense? There is nothing cool about not understanding another human because they speak a language which you don't understand.
The planet will be fine, the inhabitants of it are in for a challenging few centuries.
Adaption will happen as that has been the root of us existing.
I don't believe we are doomed, but i do believe there is going to be a huge amount of change coming
Oh look more doom and gloom bollocks. Yes that's helping isn't it.
I forgot to mention we all need to stop eating and preferably breathing too.
Was discussing this exact thing with a customer at work earlier and we both came to the same conclusion:
Are we at the point where we’re screwed as a race
Nope.
We’re past it.
I've always reckoned there being a 10-15 year lag in climate effects from what we pump into the atmosphere so to make any tangible difference today we needed to have made the changes around 2010.
Ok, have some good news. Humans only generate 900g of C02 per day from respiration. That's a trip to Morrisons in a Range Rover.
https://www.globe.gov/explore-science/scientists-blog/archived-posts/sciblog/index.html_p=183.html
ernielynch
Free Member
If you are after a mono culture. I prefer a diversified world myselfWho said anything about a monoculture with no diversity?
I said one language which all humans understand, how the **** doesn’t that make sense? There is nothing cool about not understanding another human because they speak a language which you don’t understand.
That's why god invented language classes and translation.
There generally is at least one Lingua Franca's anyhow. It used to be French, hence Lingua Franca, before English. So i'm not really getting your point anyhow, in relation to this issue.
Language barriers aren't the issue, rather more a case of over consumption.
Pretty silly thing for an English speaker to say given the dominance of English.
One species with one language which is easily understood by all obviously makes supreme sense. And yet the inability of humans to use one common language to easily communicate with each other is actually celebrated as some sort of huge positive achievement.
That's the most moronic thing I've heard you say ernie.
It's pretty obvious why things are like that if you give it 5 minutes.
thisisnotaspoon
Full MemberThe ones that annoy me most are the lefties*, who when actually presented with the idea that they could make some sacrifices to make things better for the rest of civilization as a whole.
I could kill myself today and all of the environmental impact and savings will do nothing to make things better for civilisation as a whole. My contribution to the problem has a . and a lot of 0s in front of it.
Meanwhile 100 companies are responsible for 70% of all global emissions. Meanwhile we waste huge amounts of energy in order to extract oil from tar sands. Meanwhile we have water shortages because the pipes leak. Meanwhile we have cities and farms built in deserts.
The best trick the big polluters ever pulled was to make it about individuals.
Oh look more doom and gloom bollocks. Yes that’s helping isn’t it.
Well, no, not really, but then again neither is anything else.
Aye, we're toast.
On both sides.
1840-2040. RIP.
We aren't toast at all, people will adapt to whatever conditions they have in the future. But it's really just a question of how many problems we want to leave them.
Wow, I thought I was a cynical miserable git, but you lot, well you've cheered me right up. I've not completely given up hope yet.
But, it's not for individuals to act, unless it's to demand change. Corporations need to be forced to act swiftly. Fossil fuel businesses should be phased out in the next 5-10years, and I don't want them near green tech, it would be like giving health care to the tobacco industries.
That big orb in the sky that is causing today's record temps needs to be harnessed along with wind and tidal power. As a country we're uniquely positioned to lead the charge, but we have spineless gimps begging at the teats of big business in charge.
So don't give up. Things aren't likely to improve but we can minimise the impact on future generations. Corporations can **** off. The planet and its inhabitants first.
How we do this, I'm not sure. But lobbying your MP, joining extinction rebellion are the personal actions required. I'm now prepared to be arrested for my beliefs.
No doubt I'm a hypocrite and not doing enough, but that's exactly what big business wanted you to believe with personal carbon accounting.
Cheers all, you've given me a kick up the arse to go and get arrested 😀 (T&Cs apply, my work won't sack me, but it might limit some work i do...)
Cheer up, fight the bastards, don't let the human race go out without a fight.
Assuming you lot have another 50 - 60 years (depending on your age and health) to live this life why worry for the future beyond this life? It is not as if you are coming back to re-live this or another life again. i.e. no more continuity. Whatever the future generations are going to say or feel is of no consequence whatsoever because you do not exist in future in any form. Hence, the logic does not stack up because moral etc does not have a place in future if you do not exist. i.e. by that time you are merely just dust in the space and universe.
Unless you are me in which case I might start cursing you lot for destroying a perfectly nice planet, but then I might just consider it as a norm living in a burning planet. LOL!
Put half a dozen of the world’s most intelligent humans in one single room together and there is a reasonable chance that they won’t be able to communicate between themselves beyond a very basic ape-like level.
I bet they bloody could
The doctors and philosiphors have latin
The physicians and mathematicians and engineers have maths, english and possibly german.
The programmers have a shed load to choose from
The arts... well they have art.
Kids... and lets face it they are probaby the brightest group and the most untainted have never needed a shared language to rub along quite happily.
Everyone else just needs to get on board with English, Chinese and Spanish.
And we all have body language, mime and penncils and paper for sketching.
A wilful ignorance and lack of effort is for sure a negative thing but learning a common language is so obviously not a solution to anything.
Hence, the logic does not stack up because moral etc does not have a place in future if you do not exist. i.e. by that time you are merely just dust in the space and universe.
So if I get amsolutely steaming and jump in the car and mow a bus stop down and die before they do i shouldn't feel guilty.
You don't half talk bollocks sometime chewke
One species with one language which is easily understood by all obviously makes supreme sense.
What an absolutely ridiculous opinion for an intelligent person to hold.
Kind of thing that Cecil Rhodes and the boys used to spout.
Put half a dozen of the world’s most intelligent humans in one single room together and there is a reasonable chance that they won’t be able to communicate between themselves beyond a very basic ape-like level.
Not only is that a totally made up assertion its also totally wrong, they'd use pictograms, sounds, gesticulating, objects, songs even to communicate pretty rapidly. People without common language meet and communicate all over the world on a daily basis.
So if I get amsolutely steaming and jump in the car and mow a bus stop down and die before they do i shouldn’t feel guilty.
That will not happen because in your current state of mind that is illogical. But then it might be logical for you to take such action if you think letting off steam is of much greater importance than existence or non existence.
However, even if you do it your guilt is of no consequences whatsoever to yourself because you no longer exist after the incident.
You don’t half talk bollocks sometime chewke
Your logic does not stack up.
Why bother when you do not exist anymore?
That’s the most moronic thing I’ve heard you say ernie.
I think the fact that I can't communicate with the average Chinese man or woman is pretty moronic, and not least because unlike a member of another species there is absolutely no practical reason why it should be impossible.
But you are entitled to your opinion molgrips. And I will draw satisfaction from knowing that what is clearly a perfectly sensible observation you see as the most moronic comment you have heard me make.
So yeah, wishing for all humans to be able to easily and freely communicate with each other is really 'moronic'.
*rolls eyes*
Why bother when you do not exist anymore?
Cause I'd rather not leave masses of problems behind us.
It's not that difficult of a logic to get.
Whether I am around or not is irrelevant.
You might not have, but I have an interest in the well being of my fella man and the future generations to come.
If you don't care i can see why that might seem illogical, but it's perfectly logical.
My belief system is irrelevant.
ernielynch
Free MemberI think the fact that I can’t communicate with the average Chinese man or woman is pretty moronic.
What seems to be moronic is your lack of effort on your part more than anything. If you have a burning desire to converse in Chinese, learn Chinese. That plus English will let you converse with a fair old chunk of the planet.
Utterly irrelevant to a Climate change thread anyhow.
Cause I’d rather not leave masses of problems behind us.
Illogical. You no longer exist in future. Your current concerns are just for the current state of mind in existence, beyond that it is illogical (assuming the mind of science).
My belief system is irrelevant.
If you apply logic your belief is irrelevant because you do not exist in future (beyond your current life). Your belief is only relevant in the current state of mind.
Therefore, those who argue for a better future world in the form of science is illogical. Moral is an emotional argument in science. i.e. it has no place in science, dust cannot argue especially when you do not exist anymore.
I forgot to mention we all need to stop eating and preferably breathing too.
& reproducing, for a while.
Too many people on the planet, it's not rocking horse science.
chewkw
Free MemberIllogical. You no longer exist in future.
Yeah, but I'm aware of that the future exists and that I'll make a lasting impact on that future.
esselgruntfuttock
Too many people on the planet, it’s not rocking horse science.
The population will sort itself out.
The energy source we use won't.
Yeah, but I’m aware of that the future exists and that I’ll make a lasting impact of that future.
Absolutely illogical. You can only show concerns up to the point of your current permitted life span. Arguing about lasting impact is really not important because you do not exist anymore. You cannot cling on to the past existence if you don't exist anymore in anyway or form.
Moral is an emotional argument in science. i.e. it has no place in science,
But it does become a factor, because the science isn't predetermined. We have a choice in what we do. That's where the morality is in that choice. The choice isn't science, the science will flow from the choices we make.
But it does become a factor, because the science isn’t predetermined. We have a choice in what we do. That’s where the morality is in that choice. The choice isn’t science, the science will flow from the choices we make.
It only works in your current state of mind, i.e. existence, but beyond that you are dust and there is no way you know whether your contribution is foolish or beneficial because you no longer exist. Your current view is based on your current state of existence.
Utterly irrelevant to a Climate change thread anyhow.
And yet you decided to take issue with my remark concerning of the stupidity of humans and drag it into a full debate.
And whilst accusations of moronic comments are flying around did you stop to think how daft your suggestion is that I should learn Chinese just in case I ever met a Chinese man or woman that I wanted to communicate with?
Staying on the subject of daft comments it was suggested on the previous page that I was no different to Cecil Rhodes, despite the fact that I hadn't given any indication which language I think all humans should speak. Personally I'm not much bothered I am perfectly happy to consider Swahili, if by some bizarre reason it was proved to be practical, what would Cecil Rhodes think?
did you stop to think how daft your suggestion that I should learn Chinese just in case I ever met a Chinese man or woman that I wanted to communicate with is?
Why? Are there no Chinese people you can speak to around your parts? There's plenty up here.
And how is it moronic? I learned a decent chunk of Spanish for that exact reason. I'm far from fluent, but i know enough that I could probably become fluent very quickly if I ever had to move to a Spanish speaking country. I've had a fair few conversations in Spanish with complete strangers.
You've also technological tools you can also use these days if you need to get a point across.
It's literally never been easier to converse with people in different languages should the need arise.
I could kill myself today and all of the environmental impact and savings will do nothing to make things better for civilisation as a whole. My contribution to the problem has a . and a lot of 0s in front of it.
Meanwhile 100 companies are responsible for 70% of all global emissions. Meanwhile we waste huge amounts of energy in order to extract oil from tar sands. Meanwhile we have water shortages because the pipes leak. Meanwhile we have cities and farms built in deserts.
The best trick the big polluters ever pulled was to make it about individuals.
So don't buy from them?
Ohh wait, that would require effort. As you were.....
Where to start with all this apocalyptic nonsense…
No we aren’t all going to die and humanity isn’t doomed (at least, not through climate change). Certainly there are significant environmental impacts and they are going to increase, but life goes on. The more forcefully we work towards a low carbon world, the better it will be.
Assuming culling millions of people is off the table, I have a theory that the key to getting people to give a **** is to enable them to become invested in their immediate environment. Totally extreme and radical ideas I know, but fix the ridiculous housing situation. Free, secure for life quality housing for anyone who wants it. To live in, not so you can have five of them to rent out for £££££, With gardens for growing stuff. And a Universal Basic Income, so at the very least both members of a couple wouldn't have to go out working, and likely driving etc to pay excessive housing costs... but could spend time at home with their kids, or just like, enjoying life!
I suppose I'm advocating a slower kind of lifestyle. An escape from the rat run. If people didn't have to work so damn hard maybe they wouldn't need so many holidays and shiny things to make themselves feel better. Or maybe I'm deluded and the cold reality is that everyone in the world wants to drive a Range Rover and fly around the world taking photos of themselves for clout on social media.
Being bothered about the environment seems like a kind of luxury of the well off, relatively speaking. What I notice about my friends, and Facebook for example is that the ones who really care, and are most vocal about caring for the environment are generally very secure indeed, from a housing and financial sense, inherited or bought by parents house etc. And that's fine, I'm not knocking them. They have security and the free time that gives them the freedom to think about such things. If we could only somehow roll that out further...
Total hippy pie in the sky drivel I know, just my musings. And I'm only thinking of the UK, It's all irrelevant when 18 billion Chinese people want to drive a Humvee. Just writing all that down makes me realise how daft it is so don't put the boot in too much 😉
Personally I’m not much bothered I am perfectly happy to consider Swahili, if by some bizarre reason it was proved to be practical, what would Cecil Rhodes think?
That's nice of you. I don't think you've really thought about it enough.
I like your thinking Jambourgie and think your ideas are sound. One problem though, people. As a group we’re utterly shit at two things in my opinion. Thinking of the future and thinking of others. We need a seismic shift in how society functions and how we view the world. Measuring everything by using money as the metric saddens me.
We can't get humans to use litter bins or pick their own dogs shit up even though it helps society and ecology on an easy to do basic level, the infrastructure (litter bins) is already there. Yet tonight walking through a park the area is strewn with shit again after a nice sunny day.
Why are people going to change their way of life based on 'a bit of sunshine' when rags like the DailyMail have convinced people like my parents that electric cars are bad.
**** it - we don't have children, the fruit juicez discarding kids of today can inherit this shithole of a planet.
This discussion is a waste of electrons.
I said one language which all humans understand, how the **** doesn’t that make sense?
Got to agree with molgrips.
I said one language which all humans understand, how the **** doesn’t that make sense?
Maybe try rotating your handlebars back a little?
I don’t think you’ve really thought about it enough.
The idea that all humans should share one common language as a means of communication has been around for well over a hundred years.
Whilst I appreciate that socialism is a minority view on stw I make no apologies for being a socialist - an international language is considered by many to be a basic socialist principal - the majority of humans share a common cause and a common language would facilitate people working together.
Your suggestion copa that Cecil Rhodes would have approved of such a socialist aim is nonsense. I think it is you who hasn't really thought about it.
The challenges of climate change require people throughout the world to work together in a common cause, not being able to even share a common language at this level of our societal evolution does not bode well.
We need to work together not fight against each other. Sharing a common language can only help humans achieve common goals. It does of course sound impossible to achieve but there is absolutely no reason why it should be.
What RustyNissan said.
We're screwed basically, AS WE ARE NOW.
& There's my son trying to start a family.
I despair.
I mainly despair of the humanity I see around me who have no respect for the basics.
All this "too late" bollocks gets on my tots. If there's a chance we could save an additional 10-20% of biodiversity on the llanet we havery a moral obligation to take it. I feel I can say this amongst you planet wrecking hypocrites having cycled to the offy this evening
Sharing a common language can only help humans achieve common goals
you already know English, either learn Esperanto or Chinese. Anyway - back to climate change.
I've learnt that setting an example for people doesn't work. 16 years I commuted by bike the same route, I was never joined by anyone else or waved at anyone new coming the other way. I made no change.
My 'Spring Clean' thread - I'm still the only person clearing the park in a morning, the other dog walking blokes who tut about litter are still tutting and watching me pick it all up. The thread is an empty echo chamber.
Humans - just doing their own thing that they decide. Our government is shit - they won't change anything. Greta hasn't changed anything - people of her generation are still dropping Monster and Maccys everywhere.
Socialism to me would basically mean common ownership(and not necessarily at the state level) and democratisation of the workplace. I don't really see much requirement in that for a decreed common language beyond cross border projects, but we already have that in English really. For me Socialism should be more of a bottom up structure, and within it there would be a lot of dynamism and choice for people to decide their own needs. There will be plenty need for language, but would it have to be universal? No, imo. People would use language much as they do now as required.
A common language I guess would be useful for a top down decree orientated Socialism I guess mind, can see that.
You a mad Stalinist or something Ernie? 😆
RustyNissanPrairie Full Member
you already know English, either learn Esperanto or Chinese.
So me learning Chinese would mean that all humans in the world would able to easily and freely communicate with each other?
Idiotic comments like yours really do emphasis the point I was making. The very suggestion that all humans should share a common language by which they can easily and freely communicate is considered so preposterous and even 'moronic' that it is dismissed out of hand.
What hope then for a successful fight against climate change - even with all the will in the world an incomparably more difficult goal to achieve.
In comparison teaching Esperanto to school children throughout the world would be a piece of piss.
Obviously that however would be deeply unattractive to many governments as people not sharing a common language is an important factor when governments feel the need to stir up nationalism and war.
Ernie, you seemed to be blaming us for not having united around a common language and presumably utopian goal along with that. Clearly it would have to be a second language, if it were ever to happen, because you should not and cannot eradicate every language. Now, teaching second languages requires education, and that is in short supply in much of the world due to development problems. Now, if you could make every country in the world prosperous enough to educate everyone without consuming too many of the earth's resources, that'd be great.
Unfortunately though, we are where we are.
The very suggestion that all humans should share a common language by which they can easily and freely communicate is considered so preposterous and even ‘moronic’ that it is dismissed out of hand.
No - the aim is fine, your post was moronic as it glosses over rather a lot of details, which are kind of the entire problem.
You a mad Stalinist or something Ernie? 😆
Are you still going on about it seosamh? You said, quote:
"Utterly irrelevant to a Climate change thread anyhow."
So how about you stick to talking bollocks about climate change? You obviously know nothing about what you are trying to argue with me about. If you did you would know that Stalin had a vicious campaign against those that supported an international language, and that he had Esperanto speakers murdered as part of the Great Purge.
I’ve learnt that setting an example for people doesn’t work. 16 years I commuted by bike the same route, I was never joined by anyone else or waved at anyone new coming the other way. I made no change.
My ‘Spring Clean’ thread – I’m still the only person clearing the park in a morning, the other dog walking blokes who tut about litter are still tutting and watching me pick it all up. The thread is an empty echo chamber.
Humans – just doing their own thing that they decide. Our government is shit – they won’t change anything. Greta hasn’t changed anything – people of her generation are still dropping Monster and Maccys everywhere.
Just don't give up, keep on chipping away. You might not see the changes in people, but there will be people who notice and it will influence them in some way for the better... at least, I hope.
I cycle to work too, we have only one family car. Take bags to the shops for the shopping, recycle as much as we can, re-use/purpose and repair things, grow some of our own food, our garden is friendly to wildlife.
Don't get dragged down by the 'everything is shit, we're all ****ed' attitudes.
ernielynch
Free Member
You a mad Stalinist or something Ernie? 😆Are you still going on about it seosamh? You said, quote:
“Utterly irrelevant to a Climate change thread anyhow.”
So how about you stick to talking bollocks about climate change? You obviously know nothing about what you are trying to argue with me about. If you did you would know that Stalin had a vicious campaign against those that supported an international language, and that he had Esperanto speakers murdered as part of the Great Purge.
My knowledge of esperanto speakers in the soviet union is irrelevant, you're the one wanting to issue a decree that a common language must by learned by everyone. It's incredibly authoritarian (Not to mention fairly wasteful and unnecessary ). You also seem to place no value in the cultural diversity that is linked to language. Which i'd suggest is where you'll get most push back on this.
I know you'll say that it shouldn't errode native languages, but it will. The whole common language thing was enforced on the people of these islands. So it's not like your little experiment hasn't been tried before.
Which also tells you it's not a trait unique to socialism.
“Utterly irrelevant to a Climate change thread anyhow.”
Thread's been well and truly hijacked it seems. 😆
my favourite thread on here was the "Places flown to" one, the glee with which the posters bragged about trashing the planet was quite something to behold.
you’re the one wanting to issue a decree that a common language must by learned by everyone. It’s incredibly authoritarian
Wow. Not only do you want to go on about it, after claiming that the issue was "utterly irrelevant", but now you want to up the stakes by making bizarre claims that I want to issue a "decree" which is "incredibly authoritarian" and that, apparently, makes me like Stalin!
FFS get a grip. I'll repeat......human societies haven't evolved sufficiently so that all humans throughout the world can easily and freely communicate with each other, such is the stupidity of our species. Which doesn't bode well for dealing with an issue incomparably more complex such as climate change.
Feel free to disagree with me but spare the absurd comparisons with Stalin. Unless of course you want to suggest that dealing with climate change would require authoritarian measures that only Stalin would approve of?
Wow. Not only do you want to go on about it, after claiming that the issue was “utterly irrelevant”, but now you want to up the stakes by making bizarre claims that I want to issue a “decree” which is “incredibly authoritarian” and that, apparently, makes me like Stalin!
FFS get a grip. I’ll repeat……human societies haven’t evolved sufficiently so that all humans throughout the world can easily and freely communicate with each other, such is the stupidity of our species. Which doesn’t bode well for dealing with an issue incomparably more complex such as climate change.
Feel free to disagree with me but spare the absurd comparisons with Stalin. Unless of course you want to suggest that dealing with climate change would require authoritarian measures that only Stalin would approve of?
I'm struggling to see why the ultimate evolution of language should be that of a singular common language. It's not necessary for all parts of the world to communicate in a single language, nor is it even desirable.
And yet the inability of humans to use one common language to easily communicate with each other is actually celebrated as some sort of huge positive achievement.
I mean look you don't even think there's anything positive about different languages.
What if your hypothesis was correct? What if that evolved common language turned out to be a fairly limiting language? Would that not end up being completely detrimental? Evolving into a dead end doesn't mean the supreme expression of something.
People think differently in different languages. That's diversity we don't want to lose.
Put half a dozen of the world’s most intelligent humans in one single room together and there is a reasonable chance that they won’t be able to communicate between themselves beyond a very basic ape-like level.
I also love the indignation when you are trying to pass of nonsense like this from your opening gambit as a sensible thought.
And yes I am considering you as authoritarian, you seem to desire this common tongue as dominant and superior to others. That's where batshit begins to my mind.
Anyhow, we'll agree to disagree on the matter. I'll let you have the last comment if you choose, others can make up their own mind.
Anyhow enough hijacking, back to climate change where this topic is, indeed, utterly irrelevant. 😆
Yeah, we're ****ed, it's just a question of how many species we take down with us. Example: here on a cycling website, dare suggest it might be better to pedal a bike using your own energy rather than attaching a lump of rare earth metals to it and plugging it into a power grid, and you get attacked for being an elitist...
This is the most hilarious thread I've read on here.
Peak STW. Chapeau
Well I'm sure it will get even more hilarious after you have made your suggestions on how to deal with climate change.
What would you suggest - change your duvet to one with a different tog rating, or maybe have more BBQs, drink more beer, and get some more sunbathing in?
A complete and systematic change over of base energy systems from fossil fuels to renewables and nuclear would be more the kinda thing I'd be thinking of.
I'd probably be looking for countries to issue 100/200 year loans or something mental like that to pay for it, and get it done as soon as humanely possibly.
Massive landslides in Uttarakhand India, eek! - bloody sure I wouldn’t be hanging around to film it for YouTube clicks.
thisisnotaspoon
Full MemberSo don’t buy from them?
Ohh wait, that would require effort. As you were…..
...and would also achieve nothing.