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Is it just me thinking that someone putting an advert up for a well known brand of bike GPS from a well known discount German supermarket in the classifieds for £35 more than they were selling them for (when I bought one several months ago) and blatantly saying where you got them from is taking the piss a bit?
Doesn't seem on to me, on eBay or whatever fair enough but places like this are different in my mind.
No different to buying a bike on gumtree and sticking it into classifieds for 7 times more........as happened recently.
And folk were accepting of that,
We've done this one before, and those in charge have made it rather clear that those who post for free in the classifieds here are entirely free to try and rip off people in such a way, and comments must not be made about this by other people, some of whom pay to be here and naively think this place is a sort of community...
Might even earn my first ban just by mentioning it...
I wouldn't buy anything from the classifieds without checking what I could buy a new one for first, so it doesn't really put me up or down.
Although I also don't have any problem with people pointing out when something is overpriced either, as alluded to by stoatsbrother.
as stoats says. its been dun.
and the disappointing thing remains to be that the forum overlords seem quite happy to let the shysters run amok in the classifieds and if you dare air some sensible advice for the benefit of [s]the marks[/s] newbies, you'll get a wrist slap.
Up there with the great "remember me" lie for one of those really annoying things that persist here against all sensible reason.
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/is-it-bad-form-to-comment-on-classified-adverts
yes the STW lot and Mark - as he spoke on the thread re this- think that that stating that[over priced] on a thread is like interrupting a conversation in a pub
Most users think it about protecting your mate from a dodgy deal in said pub by someone who only turns up every now and again to hawl said products
Owner views remain unchanged
Hove mind suspect amount of clicks /traffic affects view and continue to disagree
This is my basic assessment of the issue and I have tried to be even handed with it
I don't see a problem, the buyer has a responsibility to have a bit of knowledge, and if they don't, they can do some research, like simply google what new ones cost from retailers, or on a bike forum.. "is x bike/part 5 years old worth this? They don't need to reference the advert.
It's no different than walking into PC world and handing over a grand for a £700 pc, do some market research.
Mark's official response is here.
I'm not convinced that "ad spoiling" and "warning people that it's a high price" are necessarily the same thing, but that's the reasoning behind the ruling.
My understanding is that it's ok to point out if you're thinking of buying ("it's cheaper new, will you accept (price) instead" sort of thing, but just butting in to be contrary is not.
You have to do your research so that includes casting one's eye over a seller's posting history as well as checking availability and prices. There's some folk on here who seem to get a kick out of making snidey remarks in Classifieds posts when they have no intention of buying.
A seller has to be realistic, work hard and, importantly, ensuring they earn a reputation of trust where folk will want to buy from them again.
You can't fool all of the people all of the time. 🙂
And you only need to fool a few...
On most forums, sales BS is called. Just look at TGR.
Stopped looking in the STW classifieds at that time. So less traffic from me.
Are they still available at that price? Perhaps its not such a rip off - somethings occasionally go up in value, when supply<demand. Would we be so quick to jump to protect the seller if he is "giving it away" at less than market value?
And you only need to fool a few...On most forums, sales BS is called. Just look at TGR.
Stopped looking in the STW classifieds at that time. So less traffic from me.
Stoatsbrother - people are very quick to name and shame on here, there's regularly moans about sellers but we don't always hear both sides. TGR?
Pike RC is another one along with early Pikes that are mysteriously advertised for the same or abit more than they were widely available for not too long back.
Pike RC is another one along with early Pikes that are mysteriously advertised for the same or abit more than they were widely available for not too long back.
1 1/8" steerers? No surprise the price is going up. The supply is going down.
Interesting to see what people think of this.
My main gripe isn't someone selling them for the price they are (which is less than RRP) more the fact they state where they got them in the advert so blatantly advertising they are making decent profit. Just makes them seem arrogant imho
If they didn't mention that I would have just assumed they purchased at a more normal price
wiggles - odd, so its OK to make a profit so long as you don't tell anyone, but if you are pretty upfront about it and the buyer has the choice to reject your capitalist greed then its a bad idea. Seems back to front to me.
I'm not saying it is good to lie, I'm just saying unless you told me you bought it cheap then I wouldn't assume you did.
The OP in the thread seems to assume I bought them at £60, admittedly they were selling at that price a few months ago and my wife and brother now have one as a result.
Since then I haven't seen them in stock. I went into the supermarket this morning and they had two there for £90. Upon a quick googling they don't seem to be selling at many places online this cheap (being discontinued?) so I picked them up. As my post says this price will cover my postage costs.
I'll go and stick them on eBay for more and not be so honest next time then. I've bought and sold a lot on the classifieds here as many would hopefully attest too (3 of my current bikes for starters) not tying to rip anyone off.
Ta
So you bought them just to sell them ?
Why not, seems a good price? Caveat emptor and all that
I wouldn't bother either to make a tenner minus postage and PayPal fees :/
If you paid £90 each and are selling at £95 posted, why bother ? Unless you reckoned that it was a way of passing on a bargain to others, in which case you may have been misjudged on this thread.
But why buy something just to sell it and not make a profit ?
So I'm wrong if I'm ripping people off and I'm wrong if I'm not making any profit...
Good to know where I stand then.
I don't have an opinion about ripping or not ripping people of. But why buy something just to sell it to someone else for the same price, genuinely interested.
I was more trying to start a debate to see what people think rather than say what I believe is the right answer
Is it classed as trading if bought purely to sell on at a profit?
Yup.
@taxi25 like I said, it seems to be a good price. They're great little units so I thought someone else might like a good price? I'll return them and hope the store manager drops the price further I suppose?
This weekend I gave away an adult and a child ticket for a Man City Champions league home match. I got them free, the bloke that I gave them to asked if I wanted anything for them, I said no I don't like to profit. Spread the love etc. If you are on a low low wage then I don't have an issue with earning extra money to stop you from struggling. Taking advantage of goodwill though. No thanks.
http://singletrackmag.com/classified-rules/
The 'spirit' of our forum is one where users can turn their old, surplus or unwanted kit into extra cash to enable them to buy new bits to help them get out and continue riding. The Classified Forum is not a place where users can earn a living or supplement their income by buying and selling parts. users who exploit our forum in this way will be considered to be trading.
it seems to be a good price. They're great little units so I thought someone else might like a good price?
"PSA: (items) available for sale at (place) for a really good price."
Duly noted, mods please remove my classified post. Ta
in which case you may have been misjudged on this thread
My thoughts exactly. I've bought more than one of things at good prices to pass on at cost. Perfectly reasonable behaviour.
I don't need one btw 😉
Duly noted, mods please remove my classified post. Ta
in which case you may have been misjudged on this thread
I may be overruled but personally I'm inclined to leave it, from the comments here I don't believe there's any intentional foul. It'll sell, or not, and then fall off the classifieds.
I think (hope) the "spirit" here wasn't to profit but rather to pass on a good deal / availability to other forum members. Which I think is ok. (Though ultimately it's not my call.)
However, it walks a fine line and it's not really a precedence that we want to be setting; "he / she did this, why can't I?" Illicit trading on the classifieds is a big problem, Mark was bang on the money when he spoke of the admin overhead.
Thing is, he sided with the sellers not the buyers...
I'm not so bothered - with the power of google it should be very easy for buyers to check. I'm more perplexed by the fairly steady stream of "for sale" ads you see here and on FB groups for:
- 2nd hand used helmets. There was a belter on bike parts scotland last week. £30 with a crack (but apparently it is not structural, 50% discount on RRP for it being ruined). £30 gets you a better new one from Decathlon, on one etc
- Part / very worn drive chains or components for a fair chunk of the RRP of new
- Done in tyres for the cost of better new tyres
What's peoples view on people buying kit off here to sell in their eBay store? I don't think it's on personally, and certainly doesn't fit with that quote from the classifieds rules above.
I'm fairly sure that counts as trading - though given it doesn't cause Mark any hassle it's not the sort of thing which is likely to be policed.
I did raise it with both the mods and Mark, but never heard anything back. The username is the same as their eBay store so it's blatant too.
Used men's bibs always gets me. Grim.
I don't see any wrong in any of it.....I'm not bothered if I sold a few items on here and they ended up on eBay at a marked up price. Though I would sell them at a similar price but obviously pass any savings on from fees etc to someone on here. Surely that is helping a community of sorts....Maybe someone used it didn't like it and wanted to cover the extra costs for selling on. It would have to be a huge bargain to make anything on top then.
We are talking anomalies here in a chain of events ie seller is selling the goods at well below a market value, the buyer knows this and is astute enough to know a profit margin, someone else doesn't snap it up (probably will if its so cheap anyway) So I'd be doubtful this happens in more than a handful of times a week at the very most, profiteering basically. The mods/admin have it spot on its not worth scratching there heads over.
'community' Not sure that is the case on here per se. Capitalism is what we live and die by Why would anyone with rose tinted glasses think that this site was going to turn into a Jeremy Corbyn ideologist community...Some really odd people on here sometimes
given it doesn't cause Mark any hassle it's not the sort of thing which is likely to be policed.
Point the first, whether it "causes Mark hassle" is irrelevant, we're volunteer moderators. We don't get any mandates from on high beyond what you see in the T&Cs, which is as much open to our interpretation as everyone else's. The only time Mark or other Admin staff get involved is when we ask them to.
Point the second, it's the sort of thing which is very [i]difficult[/i] to police.I don't know what Ashy is referring to but if we've missed something please report it again.
Point the third, the serial traders bounce back time and again and it's like playing whack-a-mole. If you have your suspicions, grass 'em and if we agree we'll ban them until next time. We can at least stop them building a reputation that way.
[quote=seth-enslow666 ] 'community' Not sure that is the case on here per se. Capitalism is what we live and die by Why would anyone with rose tinted glasses think that this site was going to turn into a Jeremy Corbyn ideologist community...Some really odd people on here sometimes
Well I certainly see it as a community here. Maybe it's a difference between [s]big hitters[/s] those people who use the forum a lot and occasionally the classifieds and people who are mainly classifieds users and occasionally dip their toe into the main forums...
I mean the classifieds more than the general site in the community sense aracer. Something mutually exclusive I think, money, goods, buying, selling, quite a bit different from chit chat and banter, advice, reviews and so on. Sales is sales, money is involved and makes people interested for the right or wrong reasons I've been around that environment a lot to know.
More a solution to problems that don't really exist is my main point and one I think they have got right to be fair.
Used men's bibs always gets me aroused. Grim.
Hora - you nasty....
Talking about selling odd stuff... we've a local "free up and reuse" Facebook page in Worthing.
I love some of the stuff that people simply can't be bothered to take to the tip
-broken 19 inch TV.
-trampolines that are ripped to shreds and missing legs..
-a chewed and leaking water bottle!!
DrP
On the "why not send a PSA" thing.
What if someone can't get to the shops or all the stock is gone?
If someone wants to buy something at their own expense [b]and risk[/b] then sell it on at cost then good on them. Help a fellow member. My curiosity is aimed more at those who question the motives of someone who is simply trying to pass on a good deal for no personal gain.
When did simply being nice become a questionable activity?
[quote=trailrat]No different to buying a bike on gumtree and sticking it into classifieds for 7 times more........as happened recently.
And folk were accepting of that,
You really are unhappy about that ad aren't you?
If i had bought the bike for £50, how much should i sell it for? Should the resale price be related to its value?
Would doubling my money be too much? because if i put it for sale at £100, then i would buy it. And again at £200.
Why not tell me what you think is right?
I think community is MASSIVE on here..
Recently i bought a Kona Process which the guy gave to me cheaper than any of his advertised prices because of the virtual community on here. Which I've also tried to do in the past, advertising things for slightly less on here than Ebay etc.
I got a top on Amazon silly cheap last year but it was the wrong size. I put it on the classifieds for what I paid + postage.
The guy who first responded only had posting history in the classifieds. I bet he either sold it on here again for a profit or, elsewhere. 🙁
I cant understand why their are rules and then people are blatantly allowed to abuse it.
I was hoping it would have gone to someone who would benefit from getting a cheap top, but no.
You have to remeber that while its a community to some folk on here - its simply a money making engine for STW. The adverts on the forum are the only profitable bit IIRC and as such anything that increases visits gets them more money so nothing must be done to reduce the number of folk that visit this site.
View it in this light then it all becomes clearer
Not so much the you making profit aspect
what annoyed me is you bought it in the morning and listed in in the evening with the sole intention of making a profit.
Could have gone to someone who actually wanted it for a decent price instead of being bought just to make money.
(for the record i never wanted it or even care for retro bikes to that matter)
It's the manky old shoes that people try and sell for half the retail price that makes me do a bit of sick in my mouth.
[quote=trailrat]Not so much the you making profit aspect
what annoyed me is you bought it in the morning and listed in in the evening with the sole intention of making a profit.
Could have gone to someone who actually wanted it for a decent price instead of being bought just to make money.
(for the record i never wanted it or even care for retro bikes to that matter)
Yeah, well you got completely the wrong story there. Did you see how long the advert was up? Do you know when it was sold? There was plenty of time for anyone who wanted at a 'decent' price. I bought it at more than the £50 advertised price. I like retro bikes, but it also is a valuable commodity, which i can't quite justify financially. I bought it at a price which i could afford and have priced it, fairly, as many have attested, at a price which i would be ready to let it go. Much under that price and i would hold on to it. So, it is priced at what it is worth to me.
Is that enough for you?
I have met some great folk via the classifieds and some not so great. I don't mind if folk want to make some cash on an item, but generally I think that can be a lot different to someone that trades. I agree with tj's points, but it's STW 's business and as a buyer on the classifieds I look out for myself. As a seller, I wouldn't have an issue with anyone commenting on my ads. But I do remember the days where the same individuals seemed to get stuck into any seller, and it was a bit tiresome. But equally I don't use the bike forum for much other than looking at pic's of folks bikes. I don't really have much to say about many of themes in the bike forum and find the trolling tends to distract from some of the genuine humour on display.