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Apart from berlingo/partner as the go to outdoor car - are there any others of a similar ilk i should look at?
Need 3 proper seats in the back, HUGE boot, NOT an estate car - want a berlingo style.
what else is out there?
Honda Element - have a look - it might be the answer
Caddy Maxi, often called Caddy Life may be an option...
Roomster
the berlingo/partner doesnt actually have all that big a boot when the rear seats are up - something to bare in mind.
Its a tall boot but as far as usable space with the seats up something like a mondeo actually has more room....
but seats down the berlingo/partner/maxi life has a more versatile space than an estate.
going forward if buying new there will be a vauxhall version which is just another rebadge of the pug/cit
New or used - the NEW Berlingo and it's PSA equivalents have the LWB version coming out as well. The Pug Rifter looks pretty nifty.
Fiat Doblo / Vauxhall Combo / Ford transit connect tourneo
plenty of different variations with the Ford Connect if a bit rarer.
boot height is essential as are the 3 proper seats - hence not asking bout traditional estate cars
Love my Ford Connect van. Design of the current one is only a few years old, so it's nice and up to date with decent spec.
A little bigger but check out the newer Citroen Dispatch crew van. 6 seats and a ton of room. Newish/ delivery miles going for around 16-17k.
Nissan NV200 combo
Careful with crew vans.
Ultimately they are still vans. And noisy and poorly finished interiors.
Mostly they are missing the safety features that most modern vehicles have such as curtian airbags
It's up to your self but they are generally cheaper for a reason.
Replaced our Peugeot Partner with a Ford Torneo Grand Connect. Masses of space, although it's best to unbolt the 3rd row of seats to get the best out of it. Nice enough to drive, not bad on fuel.
An smax can get a 180 travel medium enduro type bike 27.5 upright with front wheel off and only one seat folded if you go down the MPV route.
Much nicer place to sit than a blingo to boot
Smax is LOADS more than a berlingo though!
<p>C8/807/Ulysse meet the spec on paper.</p><p></p><p>But they are shit to be honest, look at a Galaxy.</p>
Just get a berlingo then. What box(es) is it not ticking for you?
I moved to a 2013 Doblo from a 2005 Berlingo. I was initially struck by the impression that it was slightly bigger in all directions.
I'll dispute trailrats Mondeo opinion. We've got a 2009 Berlingo and a 2013 Mondeo. The Mondeo's boot is stupidly small. The floor is taken up by the spare wheel. It's naff. When going out with the kids we take the Berlingo every time. We couldn't even close the boot with our pushchair folded in our Mondeo without it bending the parcel shelf. Rubbish.
A Berlingo boot with seat up is 93cm
A Mondeo estate boot with the seats up is 110cm length and as wide
The height is where the Berlingo gains it's extra volume approx 100l. Bigger in volume which is a much less useful place for the space generally when your carrying passenger's unless they like suitcases and Buggys hitting them in the head.
Spare wheel should be under the floor not in the boot in both cars.
I can assure you my spare wheel is in my boot. Surrounded by a mass of polystyrene. It takes up loads of room.
Sounds like a crap place to store it someone should move it.
Hi trail rat
You're wrong about the latest Dispatch / Expert / Proace crew van. We got one this summer and it is really well done. Very very quiet, comfy and fully trimmed - and the smaller cab area means the heater / air con works much quicker. Plus all the bike filth and smell stays behind the bulkhead. We're comparing this to 300k miles in similar previous vehicles (Mk3 Dispatch Combi, Nemo Multispace, mk1 Scudo and a C15).
There is a very basic Dispatch Combi with fairly minimal trim (sometimes a good thing as side trim in the "boot" eats into useful bike space).
The prices up there ^ are also wrong - 17-18k is before VAT.
Back to the OP. Other things not mentioned yet:-
Merc Citan Tourer lwb
Doblo Combi (classed as a van but comes in lwb rather than the swb only car version).
Once into combis and crew vans you also need to understand the speed limit differences between M1 and N1 variants. Some of the N1s will still get the M1 car speed limit as they qualify as dual purpose vehicles. Except DVLA does not and will not record DPV on the V5, so you might have to challenge speed tickets generated by anpr etc.
Curtain airbags ?
From the NV200 brochure, "In addition, the front passenger, side and curtain airbags; cruise control and speed limiter: and the new Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) all come as standard on the NV 200 Combi to enhance your safety."
I've got the van version which is car-derived and can run at car speed limits (Nissan B0 platform shared with Jukes, Notes and a few others). Clever use of space that'll take two Euro pallets
"Except DVLA does not and will not record DPV on the V5, so you might have to challenge speed tickets generated by anpr etc."
I don't know about DPV, but they do classify car-derived vans as such on the V5 under "Body Type". The N1, M1, etc is a type approval classification
Caddy Maxi Life has an enormous boot once you remove the third row of seats. Second row rolls forward (or can be removed). One big benefit of this is that the load floor is flat all the way to the second row foot wells. We’ve got a VW rubber mat with a lip that fits the whole load bay and means any water than drips off wet bikes doesn’t soak into a carpet or seat and you can sweep out the whole of the back easily when its dry.
How to the Ford and Blingo compare? The images i’ve seen for the new blingo show a load of seats folded flat with badly fitting parcel shelf on top - more like an S-Max than a van.
Bought a Nemo recently, very cheap to run but would probably be too small if you want more than one bike in it.
Doblos are great, we've got a Galaxy now which is just as handy for shifting stuff around in.
Suicide, and save yourself the shame
"Caddy Maxi Life has an enormous boot once you remove the third row of seats. Second row rolls forward (or can be removed). One big benefit of this is that the load floor is flat all the way to the second row foot wells. We’ve got a VW rubber mat with a lip that fits the whole load bay and means any water than drips off wet bikes doesn’t soak into a carpet or seat and you can sweep out the whole of the back easily when its dry.
How to the Ford and Blingo compare? The images i’ve seen for the new blingo show a load of seats folded flat with badly fitting parcel shelf on top – more like an S-Max than a van."
Blingos flat all the way to the footwels for the second row. Same rubber mat all the way forward , seats roll forward or lift out.
Not sure which images you have seen.
Fair enough on the curtain airbags - but I'm going for it being (arguably) safer to have passengers separated from 4 bikes and a mountain of kit by a rigid bulkhead vs no bulkhead and curtain airbags 🙂
In the old Dispatch Combi there were mounting points in the roof and floor for a guard / bulkhead so I made my own fairly tidy steel grille (best of both worlds) but the new shape Dispatch / Spacetourer does not have the mountings - presumably because of the risk of an aftermarket bulkhead interfering with the curtain bags.
The DVLA thing is totally illogical but unfortunately the truth. Car derived van is on there, as is Motor Caravan. MPV was listed as body type for our old M1 combi, but they just won't include DPV (even though it is a term with legal definition in Construction and Use regs.) To quote one of my replies from DVLA:-
"blah blah blah the V5C Registration Certificate does not have a requirement to show if a vehicle is Dual Purpose and, therefore, is not something that would be displayed or added".
And from DVSA where I've got a work contact who is fairly senior:-
"I don't think there is any way of demonstrating what the vehicle is by any official means, it's just a case of the vehicle meeting the definition"
So I'm pretty happy I've got the paperwork to fight a ticket if I ever have to.
From an informal chat with my contact, I think the Government hates the existence of Dual Purpose Vehicle as people use it as a VAT / company car tax loophole, so they make it as difficult as possible to document and define.
To be fair Mick my point was to highlight the difference between crew van (which are vans) and combis which are dual purpose vehicles .
Almost all manufacturers make the distinction. And crew vans are a fair bit cheaper and more basic than a combi .
Nissan NV200
Miles ahead
I’m planning to import a Honda Stepwagon next year - the Japanese do boxy practical stuff brilliantly (just not for the euro market). 8 seats, tailgate, seats slide back and forth and can go flat for camping, rearmost row flips up sideways to the walls so you get the vertical space. They’re all petrol autos though which suits me fine but may not be for everyone.
Doblo is the best vehicle I've owned.
The versitality is addictive and if you proritise fun over ultimate performance (would be the perfect second vehicle for a Land Rover fan 🙂 ) it's superb.
The 1.3 turbo had a fair amount of character and fulfils the modern 2CV gap.
Frangible interior and yes, it's a Fiat.
Paid £5000 for a 20,000 ex Motability car 8 years ago. Not that cheap to run* but I would definitely have another.
*Over 100,000 miles, a very hard life including lots of steep and rocky farm tracks aaaaaaand....
Two sets of front wishbones.
Two sets of brakes and pads.
New injectors (A gamble. I know).
An electrical system that Joe Lucas, Prince of Darkness would be proud of.
Radiator.
Plastics courtesy of the Egg Marketing Board.
And fuel consumption that would make a Dusenberg blush if driven over 70mph.
The images i’ve seen for the new blingo show a load of seats folded flat with badly fitting parcel shelf on top – more like an S-Max than a van.”
Blingos flat all the way to the footwels for the second row. Same rubber mat all the way forward , seats roll forward or lift out.
Not sure which images you have seen.
see below - how do you keep mud off the seats when using it as a 'van'?
New Berlingo
Ford Grand Torneo Connect
vs the Caddy (3rd row removed, 2nd row rolled forward). The rubber mat we've got runs right to the hinges on those seats so they roll back on top of it.
I have to say I find the boot in Tepee Partner (Berlingo) bigger than some have suggested here. We went from a Renault Grand Scenic to ours and the boot space is basically the same in practice. As Mick says you need something to act as a barrier above the seat to make it work but this cost next to nothing
The caddy life is of course much bigger.....
VW Touran
After something to replace my Seat Alhambra, which if frustrating as the choice is limited when you require three proper seats in the back. Equally frustrating is finding something which won't tax me to death as a company car. The Caddy Maxi Life is a strong favourite at the moment. The Seat has just about the largest boot out there of a car based people carrier, but the Caddy boot is significantly bigger.
Equally frustrating is finding something which won’t tax me to death as a company car.
Go second hand
HTH
Touran is just too small for a full bike and narrower than the caddy for the three in the back seats... Get more space if the false floor in the boot is removed but this may be older models only...
Looking at our caddy, it has two sets of fittings for a removable bulkhead... Either behind the front seats or the second row or out all together.. If that's an issue or preference for you...
Definitely take a look at some Jap imports, especially if you're not planning on doing mega miles, 4 cylinder 2.4 petrol or 3.0 V6 petrol in the Toyota Alphard, Nissan Elgrand et al. Japanese luxury MPV's come fully loaded with all the toys that were available 10 years ago (a friends Jap Toyota has a better reversing camera in 2003 than most cars which feature this today). Some of the toyota's have the basically a Lexus engine and gearbox (well that's what mate told me, I dunno) some of the Alphards are hybrids too. Silly comfortable and absolutely massive if you take the seats out. Can be had for £5k upwards
Yep, the V6 is as used in the Lexus RX300, the 2.4 was used in the Avensis, Camry, RAV4 and plenty of others.
I’m planning to import a Honda Stepwagon next year
Let us know how it goes. The Stepwagon & Serena are on my list to replace the Civic.
Erring towards the Serena as the seats fold properly flat (for camping) in all the models whereas in the Stepwagon the newer shapes (the 2006ish onwards) don't.
Definitely report back on the process and ownership experience. I've been looking with interest at these luxurious looking Jap-Vans. They look like they have the potential to make a great bike and travel wagon
My thinking exactly. Fuel consumption is a bit of an issue for me but it would not see hugely regular usage and the initial outlay for a decent condition, nicely driving car is that much lower I'll never break even buying one of the better driving vans.
do they really offer much over an i800 or galaxy clone? £5k for a 15 year old van with 100k miles doesn't appear to be great value
Quick question, which insurance covers your bike if it get knicked out of one of these car vans (ones with windows?
My bike (home) insurance told me it was covered from getting knicked off my roof rack but not from inside the car. Aparently i would also be covered from inside a van too as you can't see inside.
So would you be covered from your car insurance?
Insurance answer- if locked to a fixing then insured in vehicle. ( M + S )
Weve just bought a nv200 a couple of weeks ago, wanted a low mileage van derived 7seater for use as a shop van and 6passenger private hire vehicle (I put a thread on here some where).
I looked at pretty much every alternative, but settled on the nv200 as it's got the best fuel economy and scores pretty high on the reliability stakes. An equivalent Vw caddy life was 3<4k more, only 1 7 ford in the country and everything else was either French or just miles away from me. I also took a test drive in a lwb Mercedes-Benz CITAN, although not the 7 seat version but this looked horrid and wasnt the best for passengers.
The cabin is more plasticy than a 'car' as is the passenger area, with much more metal work on show. But the ride is good, turning circle is excellent and it's a little narrower than others so ideal for country lanes and town centre runs. The two rear seats don't fold down to the floor, rather to the side so they get in the way of boot space, but provide really good 6th and 7th seats - with more room and in a safer possition than car based 7seaters. Boot space with the extra seats in place is OK, but all vertical so you'd need to stack cases. Put the seats away and boot space is huge. Split 2nd row allows 2 fully built bikes and 3 passengers + room for another bike with wheels off.
Did a motor way run with the computer says I averaged 50mpg, which is better than the quashqai I used to have. General driving about is mid 30's.
Bad points on the spec is the audio system, this is a 2016 version and It come with basic fm radio, no sat nav or dab. It does have cruise control and speed limiter curtain airbags in the front and a rear view camera for reversing.
Waiting for LWB new berlingo’s next year over here.
do they really offer much over an i800 or galaxy clone? £5k for a 15 year old van with 100k miles doesn’t appear to be great value
You can get much lower mileage examples than that at the age and price (at least with the Stepwagon). Though with the week pound they aren't as good deals as they used to be.
That said, you get better build, better spec and better driving vehicles. Much more car like. They are also much smaller than the i800 which is just way too big for my needs.
There's not really anything comparable on the UK market.
Yep, the i800 is pretty big and I think the seats are all fixed. Plus very much van based, even though they don’t sell a commercial one here.
What appeals to me about the jap MPVs is that the seats slide back and forth so you can have lots of legroom or lots of boot space or something in between. Plus the rearmost row usually flips up sideways so you get the height (ideal for bikes) but don’t have to remove the seats and find somewhere to store them. Then they usually go (fairly) flat for occasional camper use.
That and they’re all petrol automatics which is what I want these days. Japan wisely moved away from diesel because of city air pollution controls that started nearly 20 years ago.