[Closed] Chuck Yeager

RIP. The opening pages of The Right Stuff says it all. Every time you hear a pilot speak they are all trying to be Chuck Yeager.

What a splendid character.

RIP

Hero. And possibly nutter, but in a good way.

Wasn't a fan of the British...

Biography worth digging out.

Then there’s this for people of an STW age

Wasn’t a fan of the British…

I'm not that happy with them and I was born and raised here!

I forgot he was still alive. The fact that he lived until 97 when most of his peers perished in the cockpit is an amazing feat.

Oh man, a proper legend. 🙁

As with many of the people who succeed against the odds, he was a complex and difficult character. Perhaps you needed to be in the area he worked in. I never met him, but did meet someone (also a test pilot)who had. He thought he was an complete arse on a personal level whilst still admiring his achievements. This may well have been a clash of egos, but whenever you read about Chuck Yeager, humility was not one of the descriptions I ever heard used of him.

He'd fit in on here then

As with many of the people who succeed against the odds, he was a complex and difficult character. Perhaps you needed to be in the area he worked in. I never met him, but did meet someone (also a test pilot)who had. He thought he was an complete arse on a personal level whilst still admiring his achievements. This may well have been a clash of egos, but whenever you read about Chuck Yeager, humility was not one of the descriptions I ever heard used of him.

Whilst I don't doubt that for a second, I do wish people wouldn't be so desperate to rush in with criticism of the recently deceased, no matter how politely written.

I really did think he was dead already. Seems a well respected pilot and certainly a big part of aviation history.

@jimw

As with many of the people who succeed against the odds, he was a complex and difficult character. Perhaps you needed to be in the area he worked in. I never met him, but did meet someone (also a test pilot)who had. He thought he was an complete arse on a personal level whilst still admiring his achievements. This may well have been a clash of egos, but whenever you read about Chuck Yeager, humility was not one of the descriptions I ever heard used of him.

I heard similar from a rotary TP who met him....could be the same chap...

Whichever way, his achievements are legend and it's a stark reminder how times have changed. Not all for the better either.

Chuck pushed the boundaries like all the other unsung test pilots of the day, he was just lucky to get the Mach 1 gig.

If you read his autobiography, it really is fascinating, he comes across as quite egotistical and arrogant and the way he talked about pilots who “bought the farm” is stone cold !

But props to his achievements and to live till 97 is another one.

I still think Bob Hoover was a better pilot.

It's a shame the British Government gave away its all-moving tail science to the US after the war when they decided the pursuit of the sound barrier was too risky, otherwise it would have been a British pilot first to break it. The Americans used a stabilator on the X1 and bingo...

If you read his autobiography, it really is fascinating, he comes across as quite egotistical and arrogant and the way he talked about pilots who “bought the farm” is stone cold !

But props to his achievements and to live till 97 is another one.

I still think Bob Hoover was a better pilot.

I also read his autobiography and got exactly the same impression.

My vote for greatest pilot is Eric Brown followed by Neil Armstrong

Wasn’t a fan of the British…

Can't blame him, have you met us?

My vote for greatest pilot is Eric Brown

hmmm, expect some revisions to the autobiography, apparently according to his biographer some elements of his story need updating “in light of new evidence”

If you read his autobiography, it really is fascinating, he comes across as quite egotistical and arrogant and the way he talked about pilots who “bought the farm” is stone cold !

I don't think you could succeed in that business without being a bit of a prick. It's a bit like F1 drivers - everyone else is your rival and you're constantly having to fight to be the one who gets to drive. Yeager never got picked for the astronaut program, but I gather that they were all similar - ambitious ****s who were all competing for the same job.

Thing with Yeager is that he grew up playing with machinery so he had excellent hands-on mechanical knowledge, which I think he credited as being the key to his success as a test pilot. Being a pilot was only half the requirement, the other half was having the technical knowledge to help solve problems.

Wasn’t a fan of the British…

We do have a collective chip on our shoulder about our aviation industry, it's worth remembering that the F-86 Sabre flew for the first time in October 1947 and was in service in 1949. The nearest comparable aircraft that we had was the Hawker Hunter (actually a backup plan for the ill-fated Supermarine Swift), which didn't reach RAF service until 1954...after we'd bought Sabres from Canada as a stop gap. TBH, I'm British and I don't like us very much either.

If you read his autobiography, it really is fascinating, he comes across as quite egotistical and arrogant

I think that you'd have to be quite a complex character to be strapped to the underside of a B-29 in an experimental rocket plane with almost no chance of successfully bailing out if anything went wrong. Quite a few of Yeager's contemporaries didn't survive for very long,

Yeager never got picked for the astronaut program, but I gather that they were all similar – ambitious ****s who were all competing for the same job.

Not all of them. Neil Armstrong was obviously driven and ambitious but was also a modest and humble guy who was but just wanted a quiet life after the moon landing. In his autobiography Eric Brown recounts talking to this interesting guy at some function and only after 15 mins conversation realising he was talking to Neil Armstrong.

We do have a collective chip on our shoulder about our aviation industry

Yeagers antipathy of the British was formed during the war, he recalled the Brits he met were rude and arrogant

Different times, hey.

Er, oh.

Yeagers antipathy of the British was formed during the war, he recalled the Brits he met were rude and arrogant

Much of the wartime RAF was riven with class prejudice and rules and I suspect the combination of that plus Yeager's, shall we say, combative personality meant that he wasn't received terribly well and probably rightly he wasn't impressed. As commented above, he was from a fairly basic rural background where he developed his mechanical knowledge and many of the RAF he would have come in contact with outside actually flying would have been private school types.

We do have a collective chip on our shoulder about our aviation industry, it’s worth remembering that the F-86 Sabre flew for the first time in October 1947 and was in service in 1949.

So they're trying to steal the credit for the first jet fighter now? Fraid not. The Glouceter Meteor first flew in 1941 and was in RAF service by the end of the war and saw combat in the latter stages of WW2 and continued on into service into the 1950's. Our purchases from the US were as much about politics as they were about anything else - we were broke and were more concerned with re-building the country than making jet fighters. And we gave the world the jet engine of course which in the early US fighters were US built copies of our engines.

We don't have a chip on our shoulder, but not keen on fake news.

Being a pilot was only half the requirement, the other half was having the technical knowledge to help solve problems.

Or just steal the solution from others.

Though Chuck was the first to officially and intentionally break the sound barrier many had done so before him. Not many lived to tell the tale, but some did and their feedback about how aircraft handled at the sound barrier was crucial and led to the technological breakthroughs key to breaking the sound barrier. Still takes some guts to strap yourself into a rocket and go like hell though, so big kudos and respect to the man for that. having said that though is place in history is secured I am surprised his 'greatness' has endured so strong for so long. Was really more of a marketing exercise in the post WW2 world where the US was vying for the top dog position in the new world order and 'all American hero's' was a great marketing device to achieve that.

So they’re trying to steal the credit for the first jet fighter now? Fraid not...

I think the point PMJ is making is that post war, and because of the work NASA carried out with aircraft like the x1, made development of transonic fighters like the F86 much more successful than our own attempts, the Swift was terrible, and  we lost much ground

I think the point PMJ is making is that post war, and because of the work NASA carried out with aircraft like the x1, made development of transonic fighters like the F86 much more successful than our own attempts

Google the Miles MP 52. Before the MP 52 programme was cancelled we were "miles" ahead of the USA in supersonic flight.

Yeah, the fate of the M52 could have its own thread mind you didn’t the French have something v similar to both the M52 and the X1 as well? I’ll see if I can find it ...

I think the point PMJ is making is that post war, and because of the work NASA carried out with aircraft like the x1, made development of transonic fighters like the F86 much more successful than our own attempts, the Swift was terrible, and we lost much ground

That is true. The might of NASA and US post war economy and investment certainly helped in that case. Us brits did fight back though in the 1950's and '60's when we decided to spend silly amounts of our national GDP on aircraft development and were on the forefront of aviation development in that era with much of the key aviation technological developments came out of that era, but we couldn't sustain that level of investment for long unfortuantley.

Found it... the Leduc. Designed in the late 30s and hidden from the Nazis...

tbh, there was so much development going on post war, it was luck of the draw who got past the sound barrier first

So they’re trying to steal the credit for the first jet fighter now? Fraid not. The Glouceter Meteor first flew in 1941 and was in RAF service by the end of the war and saw combat in the latter stages of WW2 and continued on into service into the 1950’s

That's not what I'm trying to say at all.

The Gloster Meteor (which first flew in 1943, our first jet aircraft was in fact the Gloster E28/39 which first flew in 1941, as a demonstrator for turbine technology) was a very conservative design with straight wings, two podded engines and manufacturing that owed more to prewar techniques than the F-86 which had swept wings and benefitted from German aero research. The F-86 was a quantum leap ahead of the Meteor, later versions of the F-86 flew with hydraulically boosted controls and an all moving tail. We really didn't have anything of comparative performance for some time.

Jesus Christ, I love how this thread has developed. Famous guy dies, turns out he had a difficult personality, now he's to blame for the failure of the British aerospace industry.

Also, the ME262 flew before the Meteor and was a more advanced aircraft.

Though Chuck was the first to officially and intentionally break the sound barrier many had done so before him.

I think he's credited with being the first documented pilot to break it in level flight. Plunging to your death in a vertical dive doesn't really count for official records.

was a very conservative design with straight wings

Summary from TV documentary, from the lost, very long ago:

An American (or American team) viewed the current UK development that used swept back wings. He/they waxed lyrical how it was a waste of time, unnecessary and wouldn't work and then took the idea back to the US. The UK development was cancelled/scaled back to the point of effectively being cancelled based on the "advice" from the American (or American team).

Back to the OP.

I need to re-read his book (the one co-authored with Leo Janos). Some fantastic tales in it.

Jesus Christ, I love how this thread has developed. Famous guy dies, turns out he had a difficult personality, now he’s to blame for the failure of the British aerospace industry.

Sorry, I should take some responsibility for that, hands up mea culpa. IMHO Yeager was quite justified in his criticism and didn't suffer the bores who'd lecture him on post war British aviation tech. Yeager is a fascinating character, but the machines he and his comrades flew are almost as compelling.

Also, the ME262 flew before the Meteor and was a more advanced aircraft.

Yup. In terms of concept the 262 was ahead of the Meteor. It had axial flow engines too.

I think he’s credited with being the first documented pilot to break it in level flight. Plunging to your death in a vertical dive doesn’t really count for official records

The only claim with any real credence that the sound barrier was broken before Yeager was that of North American test pilot George Welch who put a prototype F-86 into a shallow dive and allegedly went supersonic, but this is unverified.

Going faster than the speed of sound in level flight, in a rocket plane after being dropped by a B-29 is frankly ballsy beyond words.

My understanding is that early U.S. jets had straight wings and didn't perform well, so they adopted a swept wing for the Sabre based on German research. I think the Russians followed the same path.

Also, the X1 had straight wings, so that wasn't what was preventing anyone else breaking the sound barrier first.

My understanding is that early U.S. jets had straight wings and didn’t perform well

That'll be the F-80 Shooting Star, which (if I recall correctly) was designed with a similar wing to the P-38 Lightning for the sake of production expedience. The Shooting Star was single engined and pretty advanced for it's time. Variants of the F-80 are still flying today.

so they adopted a swept wing for the Sabre based on German research. I think the Russians followed the same path

German research was a game changer. Don't forget that Sweden had access to this and managed to put a modern, swept wing jet into service before we did.

I really did think he was dead already

So did I. Could have sworn he was killed in an accident when a plane he was testing blew up..

Must have him mixed up with someone else..joe cocker perhaps

up. In terms of concept the 262 was ahead of the Meteor. It had axial flow engines too.

Frank Whittle was well aware of axial flow but decided to use centrifugal flow because he knew the metallurgy of the day wasn't up to withstanding the temperatures and pressures in axial flow engines. He was right as the service life of the Jumo 004 engines was only 10-25 hours

Must have him mixed up with someone else.

Scott Crossfield?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Scott_Crossfield

Also, the X1 had straight wings, so that wasn’t what was preventing anyone else breaking the sound barrier first.

It's not just about the angle of wing sweep. The thickness of the wing in important too, as is the fuselage profile. A swept wing delayed the onset of buffeting, a thin wing developed less drag, a thin, swept wing was better still. It's not just about the wing, the fuselage is important too - early F-102s were stubbornly subsonic despite having a thin delta wing and no shortage of thrust.

Generally speaking, early jets with a swept wing could fly at higher subsonic speeds than an early jet with a thick, large wing like a Meteor or F-80.

The X1 was a 50cal bullet with wings.

It’s not just about the angle of wing sweep. The thickness of the wing in important too, as is the fuselage profile.

Exactly. The F104 had straight wings but was pretty quick in a straight line. Coincidentally, it was one of those that Yeager was flying when he had his near-fatal crash.

That does look rather lovely...

I guess he got to fly pretty much any aircraft he wanted to once he became a celebrity test-pilot, here's the aircraft types listed in his Wikipedia page.

To be fair to Chuck, the infamous F-104 he flew was a highly modified prototype with a dirty great big rocket booster fitted (8th pic down in thols2's post above) because who wouldn't want to fly a prototype F-104 with a dirty great big rocket on it?

when he had his near-fatal crash

Sadly he was in good company, rocket booster or not.

Article a bit like thols2 up there ^^ but with words

While mankind's first supersonic flight will forever link Yeager with the X-1 in the public's collective imagination, The War Zone pays tribute to the legendary pilot by looking at some of the other defining aircraft that he flew during his unmatched flying career and uniquely colorful life.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38029/chuck-yeagers-amazing-life-told-through-the-airplanes-he-flew

Good read, thanks for sharing. 🙂

Man was a legend. RIP.