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[i]Up to three households can meet up during a five-day Christmas period of 23-27 December, leaders of the four UK nations have agreed.[/i]
So, what are specifics of this, it raises a few questions. I'm on the cautious side so would limit meet ups anyway.
Theoretically, it allows three houses to have a socially distanced Christmas together for 5 days. It sounds like this is UK wide guidance even if your local alert level is 'Very High'?
Or, if three households meet up for Christmas Day only, does that mean those three households cannot meet anyone else, i.e. for a walk outside, on the other 4 days? Or do normal rules then apply for other meet ups subject to the alert level for your area?
Or, if you don't meet any households for an 'indoors' Christmas, are you limited to three contacts with other households outside?
It certainly sounds like you can't go to see two sets of parents (not that I want to this year) if other adult siblings are also doing the same on different days, as thats not an exclusive bubble.
EDIT: Or have I missed the point and its about the fact that within your Christmas bubble, you are not legally required to social distance.
Or, if three households meet up for Christmas Day only, does that mean those three households cannot meet anyone else, i.e. for a walk outside, on the other 4 days
Yes.
Of we isolate for those 5 days, can we opt to not isolate for the next 25?
Do whatever you want.
If I'd been knocking my pan in to develop a vaccine, or had been working in a hospital I'd be tearing my hair out about now. I'm seriously considering ignoring the news and any future "guidelines" as it all seems so bloody pointless.
LET. IT. RIP.
is santa included as one of the 3 households assuming he comes down the chimney and is fingering all the goodies under the tree?
[i]Do whatever you want.[/i]
Not me! But in a weird way its more restrictive than normal for someone who was planning on meeting one set of parents for a half day...if it means you can't meet a mate for a boxing day ride as thats not an exclusive bubble.
Santa, the new super-spreader of the globe. Will he be vaccinated early?
I'm only planning to see 2 households anyway, my parents and my sister, with the maximum amount of days between them to allow for any symptoms to show and so we can prevent further spread.
Aye, same here, in laws and granny, on xmas day, that'll be it.
Just asked my mum which of her 3 grown up children she doesn’t want to see this Xmas.
and granny
there's the rub, if granny turns up for christmas dinner, grandchildren can only meet one set of grandparents.
Effectively more restrictive than where I am in tier 1 in Scotland. I can meet one other group indoors or two other groups outdoors and they can be different each time.
If I meet with my mam and bothers family none of us can meet anyone else over the 5 days. So either my wife joins us and she doesn't see her family or she moves out??
Interesting that there's been no comment on what restrictions will come in after the 27th...
We plan to isolate as far as possible as soon as school finishes then hopefully it will be safeish for my mum to visit at xmas.
So, what are specifics of this, it raises a few questions.
Note - "further guidance will be provided in due course"
Or just ignore the guidance whatever it is and do what you want.
Can you stay overnight (even if one or both of the households are in tier 3?)
Some family are too far for a day trip.
But more importantly nobody should have to spend Christmas Day with their relatives while sober...
Yes, overnight stays, and no travel restrictions.
The travel restrictions is of most interest, mibbe even get a couple of Munro's in.
Does anyone want to join my bubble so I don't have to spend any time with the inlaws?
Well stocked bar, I'm a half decent cook and I still ride bikes occasionally.
I’m still waiting for the specifics on carol singing.
The government is apparently going to issue guidelines
Surely they missed a trick by not calling it a "Christmas Bauble"?
Is anyone really paying attention to the specifics by point? Just do what you know to be sensible in the context of you and your family. What do you think will happen if you bubble with two other households on christmas day then go for a socially distanced bike ride with a mate on boxing day? The police arent going to turn up at your door and whack you all with fines for it.
Some people seem to love getting seriously anal about the detail and can I do this can I do that.
I was planning on a day trip to Barnard Castle myself.
Bonkers...
This 4 week lockdown period is having a positive effect on reducing transmission.
In a weeks time many areas aren’t going to see much change as they will be placed into Tier 3
(~70 based on where they were planning on rolling out the next fast tests)
Then 3 weeks of being asked to continue to follow these rules, until you can have 5 days where you can disregard them completely.
The whole message has been the majority of transmission has been generated on people meeting close contacts indoors, and that’s something we shouldn’t do. Now for 5 magical days, this is the only thing you can do, as lots of other things will be closed...
Awaits Lockdown 3 for the whole of February
The whole message has been the majority of transmission has been generated on people meeting close contacts indoors, and that’s something we shouldn’t do. Now for 5 magical days, this is the only thing you can do, as lots of other things will be closed…
This lockdown was clearly to 'pay' for christmas. So in theory we have already offset the 'damage' this 5 day freedom will cause.
Surely they missed a trick by not calling it a “Christmas Bauble”?
They probably nixed it after his "jolly careful" gag fell so flat.
This lockdown was clearly to ‘pay’ for christmas. So in theory we have already offset the ‘damage’ this 5 day freedom will cause.
I believe we will pay for it with tighter restrictions in January, though I may be mistaken
I believe that we will pay for it with a lot more deaths in January & February. Take the better advice from Prof Devi, don't blow it all now by meeting up indoors, wait a few more weeks and we'll have spring and vaccines. Only meet up outside, keep it severely limited and the sacrifices of recent months will be worthwhile. As Joan Bakewell said earlier- don't get shot in the trenches on armistice day.
Also a good way of clawing some furlough money back with the increase the government will probably see in inheritance tax
In a way it puts some families in a difficult position.
Imagine sticking to these rules (the rules don't make the situation safe, let's just remember that, they are more about limiting damage at a national level) then losing a family member just after Christmas due to this Consumer Super Spreader Event.... Just a matter of weeks before that family member might have got a vaccine. Particularly if they are elderly/at risk.
The recriminations and guilt over something like that could tear a family apart.
I don't like Christmas anyway but at least this year being humbug about it is actually the responsible way to be.😁
We are ignoring the latest stuff and going to stick as we have been and just have my mum come (as she is already in the bubble). Beyond that might meet the in laws but that's not definit.
as ever for us the rules change but what we are doing doesn't
Well, it didn't take much deliberation, but given various factors we'll just be keeping ourselves to ourselves and hoping to see family in England at Easter. Fingers crossed.
Thanks Chris, that answers most if not all of of my questions.
After 9 months only seeing my parents twice, working throughout Covid, following the rules and restricting my travelling I’m looking forward to seeing my parents at Xmas....2021
If you seriously thinking of breaking the rules then go **** yourself.
If you seriously thinking of breaking the rules then go **** yourself.
Of the people I know, most seem to planning to see less of people than the rules allow.
Same. I don't know anyone who is planning on going nuts. Just seeing the minimum
If you seriously thinking of breaking the rules then go **** yourself.
An acquaintance of mine that is supposed to be isolating after being in a meeting with someone that tested positive was still going to take his very elderly mother to a hospital appointment.
Thereby risking her life, his elderly fathers and any other random poor sods he met whilst at the hospital.
What a selfish **nt.
Fortunately a more sane family member of his has pointed this out to him and is taking her instead.
Makes you despair though.
We have just all rearranged our Christmases as a family. Instead of all meeting we have decided that we will do a secret santa food and drink box, then open on a family zoom meet up and open, drink, chat and then play bingo.
It's for one year.
Hopefully we will all be able to meet up after Easter if we are allowed with each other then.
My mum summed it up nicely earlier...it's one Christmas out of 64 and plenty more to come when we can meet up.
Perhaps we'll meet for a walk and that's it.
assuming he comes down the chimney and is fingering all the goodies under the tree?
Ecky thump!
Just asked my mum which of her 3 grown up children she doesn’t want to see this Xmas.
You should know by now which of the 3 is the least favourite. Likely to be the middle one.
For ****s sake, how anyone can not use a simple amount of common sense and respect for the people around them - including those in frontline services - before creating a shit shower of a mountain out of a mole hill as a thread like this I don’t know.
I really despair.
The Christmas rules are probably driven more by what a good proportion of people will do anyway, rather than what's sensible for Covid. Turning half the population into rule breakers over Christmas would probably undermine compliance with future restrictions if necessary.
Personally we'll have a more restrictive Christmas than allowed anyway - under pressure from my vulnerable parents to take family to visit though...
Just asked my mum which of her 3 grown up children she doesn’t want to see this Xmas.
if you have to ask, it’s probably you...
I really despair.
I think I said on one of the first pages of the Covid thread - "soon we'll know who all the pricks are"
Only being asked to do nothing and can't even manage that.
Grandparents are looking forward to seeing the young uns A LOT next year, post vaccine for older folk. They’ll be wanting rid of us by the end of the summer holidays! Focusing on that, and plenty of Zoom and FaceTime this Xmas. We’ll all find ways of enjoying the winter, with laughs via video link. The modern world has us covered.
Aimed at me Kryton? I posed the questions as the more detailed guidance hadn't been published... And I wasn't expecting it to follow the same evening but Chris found it.
I'm not looking for loopholes, I'm expecting a very quiet Christmas. It's more that I want to know the rules before people inevitably start trying to arrange festivities.
Surely it's common sense to know the rules...and that they are a limit, not a target.
johnson says '...the virus hasn't gone away'- yes, we're aware of that - so why announce any sort of dispensation?
Hospitality sector and non-essential retail re-opening next week; christmas shopping scrums coming up; it will be impossible to monitor/manage social distancing and mask wearing.
CV19 hospitalisations and deaths to rise in January.
Thanks johnson, you utter clown.
Forman, that's exactly it. FWIW I expect any improvements made through this lockdown will be squandered before Christmas as the hordes need to go out Christmas shopping. Bring on the January lockdown.
Thanks johnson, you utter clown.
Don't single him out. Nicola Sturgeon is peddling the same schtick.
The Christmas rules are probably driven more by what a good proportion of people will do anyway
That’s my take on it too. People have been understandably very stressed / depressed during lockdown / 2020 in general. If this means that people are more likely to adhere to the (current) rules because they know there’s a glimmer on the horizon of a nice Christmas, it may not be (overall) the huge risk people seem to be assuming. Hell, if I wanted to see Granny at Christmas I’d want to make damn sure I wasn’t taking Covid back to her so I might be even more cautious in the coming weeks.
I suspect we’ll probably be having a quiet one as a family.
Just watched this on the Beeb 10pm news, broadly ignorant of the earlier announcements and media heresay. Quite frankly the weirdest story I've ever seen on the news and like some sort of bizarre public information parody.
before creating a shit shower of a mountain out of a mole hill as a thread like this I don’t know.
OP asked a reasonable question.
Sorry folks just a small rant as I get pissed off at deniers, the scamdemic arseholes, the conspiracy price and social media idiots who knew better then science.
like some sort of bizarre public information parody
It’s baffling.
I think most people know what needs to happen though. Soon we’ll all be able to meet up with vaccinated parents… and not just at home… but down the pub! It can’t come too soon. That it won’t be in time for Xmas, well… for most of us >shrug< …there will be exceptions though, people who really do need to get face to face with family they might lose soon… the rest of us should wait a few months to keep things as safe as possible for them, and those shielding, and NHS staff that always have a tough January and February without us piling Covid admissions on them as a nasty winter bonus.
@frankconway this is a political move, nothing more, from all 4 leaders of their respective countries. None of them want to be known as the ‘leader who cancelled Christmas’ Any of them could of done it if they chose to, but do you think the public would ever let them forget it when this is over?
The government aren’t speading this virus, the public are, we know how it’s transmitted now yet some people are willing to risk their own families and others lives for one day in December they normally complain about anyway.
Must admit to being utterly hacked off with this. My wife and I have been left by our emigrated siblings to dealing with the Olds for years and, just for once, were looking forward to it just being us and the kids for Christmas. Now we've got the old dears asking how we're going to include them "because Nicola says its OK". I'm just going to have to have beer for Christmas breakfast so the wife has to decide to drive there.
OK people
I'm on my own since my wife died last year and I work in Liverpool where I can get a test any time and get the results in 20 minutes.
So lets say I get a test on the 24th Dec and test negative, should I drive down to South Gloucestershire in a small village to stay with the in-laws in their massive house with my own bedroom & bathroom for Christmas?
None of them want to be known as the ‘leader who cancelled Christmas’ Any of them could of done it if they chose to, but do you think the public would ever let them forget it when this is over?
But they'll all get it in the neck come February when cases, admissions and deaths rise as a result of this.
Yes but with the knowledge that you could contract it whilst away from home
Even as someone who thinks that the current "lockdown" is a waste of time, or maybe because I do, this seems utterly idiotic. Either it's fine to meet other people inside or it isn't, just because it's Christmas doesn't change that. I'm going to carry on meeting multiple people outdoors for rides and walks, but I've got no intention of potentially putting my parents at risk by visiting them for a couple of days when infection rates in the North are still very high.
MrOvershoot
Full Member
OK people
I’m on my own since my wife died last year and I work in Liverpool where I can get a test any time and get the results in 20 minutes.
So lets say I get a test on the 24th Dec and test negative, should I drive down to South Gloucestershire in a small village to stay with the in-laws in their massive house with my own bedroom & bathroom for Christmas?
No one can give you the answer to that one in truth. From a pure risk adverse level, it's "no" of course. Not as simple as that though is it mate.
Sorry to hear about your wife, I've no idea how tough any Christmas must be for you, let alone this one.
markspark, of course it's a political move.
Being a political leader, I would suggest, involves a willingness to take the big decision, the unpopular decision - the right decision for the greater good.
Today's announcement is a clear demonstration that they have all ducked the issue with this fudge.
They have all clearly decided they would prefer a little short term popularity rather than a reputation for putting the nation's health first.
Short term popularity will rapidly fade and be forgotten.
Being tagged with the responsibility for avoidable deaths is a memory that won't fade and won't be forgotten.
Frank, not often I disagree with you but I do on this unfortunately.
Once a vaccine is available I suspect the majority of the country will just want to move on. There'll be a public inquiry of course and lessons will be learnt but Brexit will be kicking in amongst other unknowns and Covid will just be "history".
It's crap and I wish it wasn't this way as I agree, politicians should have had the courage to tough this out with vaccines so close now.
Seeing as the virus has declared a truce for 5 days, maybe we could all have a game of football with it on Christmas morning in between the trenches.
That’d be nice
Poops, it's always ok to disagree.
Once vaccinations start there will be a collective sigh of relief and, absolutely, the majority will want to move on.
For the relatives of those who die in early 2021 where there is any connection to CV19 - dying of or with - I doubt they will forget or want to move on.
They will be identify political leaders as having made the wrong decision.
That is how I would react.
It's clear from your posts that you have a clear-eyed focus on protecting your mother; long may that continue.
Oh yes Frank, I'll be honest, if I'd lost someone close I would be out for blood. Heads should roll (metaphorically) over the mismanagement of this crisis but I doubt we'll ever even see a resignation. Utter bunch of *****.
should I drive down to South Gloucestershire in a small village to stay with the in-laws in their massive house with my own bedroom & bathroom for Christmas?
If you want to.
They won't get it in the neck at all, the plebs will be blamed for being silly sausages and for blowing bubbles.
MrOvershoot. Really sorry to hear. I'd say yes certainly. Are you part of a support bubble? If not, then can you make your inlaws that support bubble?
Aimed at me Kryton?
Not you specifically. My apologies I just find the endless questions and political posturing over words very frustrating when I personally find it very easy to work out how to avoid contact with people during a pandemic period.
My huge condolences to Mr Overshoot I’m very sorry for your situation.
Either it’s fine to meet other people inside or it isn’t, just because it’s Christmas doesn’t change that.
It's not binary.
Think of it as turning on the taps for a bit, so the water (Covid) level will get a bit higher, but not as high as if we left the taps running all the time.
I expected looser rules than they've come up with, but I think they've got it about right - for once.
I personally find it very easy to work out how to avoid contact with people during a pandemic period.
That's great. It's pretty easy for me too, but can you really not see people have very different circumstances and it's not so easy for everyone? Couple that with the vague, contradictory and poorly thought out rules and it becomes apparent why some are asking questions and struggling.
I'd argue it's pragmatic politics - a lot of people will ignore the rules over Christmas anyway, it's unenforceable realistically. Restrictions pre Christmas and post Christmas were always likely to be needed whatever the rules said, so I understand why the decision was made, even if I disagree with it. No idea why they went with 5 days though, that's excessive.
Devi and Juan Bakewell sum it up nicely.
What do you think will happen if you bubble with two other households on christmas day then go for a socially distanced bike ride with a mate on boxing day? The police arent going to turn up at your door and whack you all with fines for it.
It's not about the Police turning up, it never has been - it's whether you and your mates actions inadvertently kill a loved one 4 weeks later.
Couple that with the vague, contradictory and poorly thought out rules
Thats the bit I struggle with, if he told you to jump off a cliff would you? We all know how to best avoid transmission and the likely outcome if we don't. Just enact it yourself, why waste time arguing over nuances on internet sites overtime a new headline appears.
It seems like madness to me. I'd expected maybe a day of rule easing, which would let people do what they want but prevent long distance nationwide travel, but five days is just a fire sale of the progress that's been made. I'm disappointed Sturgeon went for it.
I live in Scottish Tier 3. So it's bad here. My folks have been in some kind of Northern English Lockdown since July. We last saw them in August when there were zero deaths in Scotland. Yesterday in England there were over 600. I'd be mortified if we went down there and gave either of them, both in their late sixties, or my granny Covid and one of them had long term repercussions or died. So we're not going.
Thats the bit I struggle with, if he told you to jump off a cliff would you? We all know how to best avoid transmission and the likely outcome if we don’t. Just enact it yourself
So it's OK to ignore the rules if you know better?
OK people
I’m on my own since my wife died last year and I work in Liverpool where I can get a test any time and get the results in 20 minutes.
So lets say I get a test on the 24th Dec and test negative, should I drive down to South Gloucestershire in a small village to stay with the in-laws in their massive house with my own bedroom & bathroom for Christmas?
I would say that compared to some people who will be crossing the country to visit 2 or 3 different family households over the 5 days without a test to know for sure you're being very sensible and should do so. The mental health benefits for you would far outweigh any chance of the test being wrong and you passing it on. Just take sensible precautions like fuel the car fully a few days before the test, self-isolate for those few days before the test and on the drive down don't stop at a services unless you're desperate for a pee.
It's all about risk mitigation rather than total risk removal.
Either it’s fine to meet other people inside or it isn’t, just because it’s Christmas doesn’t change that. I’m going to carry on meeting multiple people outdoors for rides and walks, but I’ve got no intention of potentially putting my parents at risk by visiting them for a couple of days when infection rates in the North are still very high.
Replace "The North" with "The Midlands" and this is exactly where I am.
I'm trying to listen to the government's science driven advise(!) and at the moment that says I can't see people indoors, I can't meet my mates in the pub beer garden and I can only meet 1 other person outside. I'm assuming that the virus won't change in the next month so to then go and spend 6 hours in doors with my 70 year old parents seems ridiculous.
I suspect me and Mrs Lunge will meet both sets of parents for a stroll outside and then eat Christmas dinner at home.
I will likely sit there raging when I've done my bit and the country goes into lockdown in Jan and Feb again.
I will likely sit there raging when I’ve done my bit and the country goes into lockdown in Jan and Feb again.
That's the really hard part. Those of us who would have done what we were told at Christmas if the government had done the right thing and said "Christmas is off because if it's on people will die" will now pay for it in January and February. As we've done every time we've followed the rules and others thave driven the R rate up.
Still, it's better than paying the price of a dead parent.
Our family has decided to do Aussie Christmas and have a BBQ on the beach in summer.
Will just spend the day eating curry with my girlfriend in the house.