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it’s a surveillance aircraft
Yes I understand that, it is probably fair to say that it is the world's most famous spy plane. Which is why I am surprised that the article refers to the "real practical value" of the selfie. But perhaps I have misunderstood the point they are making,
I certainly don't understand why it "distills America’s vast technological aerospace advantage over China into a single image". Who in their right mind thinks a balloon represents the pinnacle of Chinese technology?
you don’t honestly believe that the US Defence Department or any of the security agencies will release any photos of such a valuable piece of Chinese hardware, do you?
In case of what? In case the Chinese find out what their alledged spy balloon looks like?
I would expect the United States to flaunt it to the world, just to show everyone what the Chinese were up to - spying supposedly.
If it is all in fact top secret stuff which they can't discuss with anyone why the **** did they release all this information that it was a spy balloon?
Claiming that it was a spy balloon but refusing to provide evidence to back that up sounds a tad suspicious, wouldn't you say?
Claiming that it was a spy balloon...
Fleets of spy ships have sailed international waters for decades. I don't think that any were captured but an assumption was made that the others were spying because we had similar capability.
One job that the ships did was identify sub-sea sounds typical of different ships and subs to improve accoustic detection. <armchair mode>Maybe in these times of radar-stealthy aircraft other detection methods are being tried and if so the balloon had to go</armchair mode>
The main difference was that the ships stayed in international waters while the balloon strayed into US airspace and over US waters
For the conspiracy theorist above, a much more detailed article with better close-up images of the 2000lb payload. As far as supplying photos of the retrieved payload is concerned, think about what sort of condition it would be in after hitting the water from 65,000 feet.
What exactly would you expect to see?
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/our-best-look-yet-at-the-chinese-spy-balloons-massive-payload
Fleets of spy ships have sailed international waters for decades. I don’t think that any were captured but an assumption was made that the others were spying because we had similar capability.
Every major country spies on others, that's routine. The thing with spy ships is that they will often have radio and radar antennae that make it obvious that they aren't commercial vessels. If they're operating in international waters, they aren't breaking any laws. If they enter territorial waters, it's a different matter. A balloon drifting around in U.S. airspace is fair game for a shootdown, even if it is just a lost weather balloon.
What exactly would you expect to see?
You tell me. It is you who asked:
"you don’t honestly believe that the US Defence Department or any of the security agencies will release any photos of such a valuable piece of Chinese hardware, do you?"
And as for the "conspiracy theorist" allegation, I have absolutely no theory concerning what the Chinese balloon actually was.
The Americans claim that it was a spy balloon whilst the Chinese claim that it was a weather balloon which went astray. Is there any particular reason why I should believe the Americans?
The Americans also claim to have shot down another 3 objects but that they have absolutely no idea what they were. They also claim to be completely unable to find any debris from all 3 of those objects.
Do you not find that slightly strange or do you simply accept anything that the US government says uncritically?
... radio and radar antennae...
Fishing rods, innit? 🤔
Do you not find that slightly strange or do you simply accept anything that the US government says uncritically?
No to both.
After spotting the first one and adjusting the radars they found several others and got a bit missile happy.
As for not finding the remains. They were far smaller and in a less controlled situation. The first one they planned it for several days with the shoot down just off the coast. The other three were more adhoc since they were a lot lower and in theory a possible threat to aircraft.
At least one has been likely identified as a experimental balloon launched by US citizens. The others who knows.
The Americans also claim to have shot down another 3 objects but that they have absolutely no idea what they were. They also claim to be completely unable to find any debris from all 3 of those objects.
Do you not find that slightly strange or do you simply accept anything that the US government says uncritically?
Do I find it strange they are claiming not to have found any debris? Nope.. what's in it for them if they did and say they did?
Do I
accept anything that the US government says uncritically?
Nope the two are hardly mutually exclusive.
Do I find it strange they are claiming not to have found any debris? Nope.. what’s in it for them if they did and say they did?
Do I
Why do you find it strange?
Plenty of planes from small Cesnas to MH370 go missing and take days/weeks/months to find the wreckage if they ever ever do.
When Steve Fossett went missing they found 10 previously undiscovered crash sites dating back as far as the 60s.
When his crash site was found over a year later the bulk of the wreckage was half a mile from the first bit to be stumbled upon (his wallet).
Id imagine a weather balloon hitting the ground in Alaska looks something like dust on the forrest floor after impact.
Why Wreckage Of The Three Shot Down Objects Is So Hard To Find
TL;DR: Smashed into tiny little pieces then scattered over hundreds of miles in the middle of nowhere, including water.
thisisnotaspoon
Plenty of planes from small Cesnas to MH370 go missing and take days/weeks/months to find the wreckage if they ever ever do.
If I had the resources of the US military and were shooting down a plane/balloon whatever and wanted to recover parts I reckon I'd manage to keep it on visual from a 20-30 other aircraft and find something.
The U2 picture is getting some pretty funny reactions though... "How dare China spy on people!oNE!" followed by "Our spy stuff that we use to spy on people is way better than theirs, USA USA"
Plenty of planes from small Cesnas to MH370 go missing and take days/weeks/months to find the wreckage if they ever ever do.
Yeah we aren't talking about planes that have gone missing. We are talking about objects deliberately shot down by the US military.
Shooting down something which you have no idea what it is, on three different occasions, not finding any remains, and just accepting that you will probably never know what you shot down, sounds "slightly strange" to me.
You might be perfectly relaxed about whole thing and think that the US military should with gay abandon shoot at things that they have no idea what they are, and possibly never will, but I reserve the right to find it all slightly strange.
It is quite a leap to accuse me of being a "conspiracy theorist" because I expect the military of a country to generally know what they are actually shooting at and destroying.
If I had the resources of the US military and were shooting down a plane/balloon whatever and wanted to recover parts I reckon I’d manage to keep it on visual from a 20-30 other aircraft and find something.
Indeed, however somewhere over $3million was spent looking for Steve, plus the value of google and amazon putting up satellite imaging resources and crowdsourcing the analysis of it.
Even if you parked a satellite over it (and despite what CSI would have you believe satellite resolution is only about 1m^2 because of distortion through the atmosphere) you're looking for the wreckage of what's probably a very flimsy structure dropped from 20,000ft into uninhabited area covered in mountains, lakes and forests.
The CIA aren't just going to parachute in wearing a sharp suit and land on top of an intact solar panel with made in china stamped on it.
Maybe some university's already sent them a stroppy e-mail for shooting down their weather balloon and it's just less embarrassing all round to not mention it.
It is quite a leap to accuse me of being a “conspiracy theorist” because I expect the military of a country to generally know what they are actually shooting at and destroying.
It is indeed quite a leap when it wasn't even mentioned or replying to you 😉
I reckon I’d manage to keep it on visual from a 20-30 other aircraft and find something.
Which is what they did with the one they certain was a spy balloon. Alongside the F-22s which shot it down they had a couple of F-15s with targeting pods which could track it down plus a rescue plane which dropped smoke flares.
The others they seemed to be mostly shooting down either for a)fun b)practice c)jealousy of the other unit getting the chance to shoot something d)because they were at a height which could interfere with normal aviation (something which didnt apply to the first one).
With the others its unclear they had the same resources and they certainly didnt put the same amount of planning into it (the first one they watched for several days before shooting it down just off the coast to give best chance of recovery) and given the difference in size there is also a far higher chance of the smaller ones being absolutely trashed by the missile hit.
It is indeed quite a leap when it wasn’t even mentioned
Yes it was. It was suggested that I was a "conspiracy theorist" because I questioned the lack of photographic evidence and for not automatically believing every claim made the US government.
I have no personal theories concerning Chinese balloons beyond believing that neither the Americans nor the Chinese always tell the truth. Shocking as it might seem.
Smashed into tiny little pieces then scattered over hundreds of miles in the middle of nowhere, including water.
Although the one that hit the sea they found without any problem. Over land I'm surprised they couldn't find anything.
Over land I’m surprised they couldn’t find anything.
Why Wreckage Of The Three Shot Down Objects Is So Hard To Find
1. They were much smaller than the Chinese balloon and didn't have a payload the size of a bus.
2. The Sidewinder missiles would have utterly shredded the balloon.
3. They were shot down over a very large area of wilderness. Finding a small piece of wreckage would take an enormous search. The three later balloons weren't really suspicious like the first one, they were just unidentified objects drifting around. Nothing interesting to recover anyway, so why bother.
The three later balloons weren’t really suspicious like the first one
So why were they shot down then? I got the bit that they didn't know what they were, you are now suggesting that they weren't even suspicious?
It all sounds slightly strange to me.
One could have been a weather balloon gone astray. More than one shows the American people theres a war/information.intelligence gathering. etc
Gaslighhting the population is one train of thought, given the US and their propensity of always having an enemy out there.
I got the bit that they didn’t know what they were, you are now suggesting that they weren’t even suspicious?
The first one was definitely suspicious. It was carrying a large payload.
The others were, apparently, much smaller. They were drifting around at altitudes used by civil aviation. My guess is that the U.S. Air Force figured they would be useful target practice. It's kinda like when the navy sink derelict boats that aren't worth trying to salvage - you know that a lot of the reason is just that they want a chance to actually fire their guns at something to relieve the boredom.
you know that a lot of the reason is just that they want a chance to actually fire their guns at something to relieve the boredom.
Well that's great. I would hate for the US military to get bored because they hadn't shot anything in a while.
I would hate for the US military to get bored because they hadn’t shot anything in a while.
It will make a change from agricultural workers.