[Closed] Children in schools ignoring minute silence for Manchester.

Kids being kids.

Don't know what age we're talking here, but personally I'd rather kids just got to be kids for as long as possible without having to think about all this awful shit.

MrPottatoHead - Member
Don't know what age we're talking here, but personally I'd rather kids just got to be kids for as long as possible without having to think about all this awful shit.

this

Kids, like Grandad, being Kids.

There was a guy on R4 this morning making the case that we have ritualised grief to the point that it's no longer helping the grieving process.

Seems barely a week goes by when the football games dont start with a minutes silence to remember the tragedy X, or the anniversary of Y, of the fallen of war Z.

Asking/making anyone, let alone kids, stand for a minutes silence for something they probably haven't even begun to understand let alone know how to empathise is ridiculous, let alone do it on such a regular basis as is the case now.

IMO it's an extension of the race to be the most politically correct or most blunt (as in the original thread) or the pseudo-public grieving and 'showing support' or pre-emptive anti UKIP posts on facebook. It's not grieving, it's just varying degrees of attention seeking.

Asking/making anyone, let alone kids, stand for a minutes silence for something they probably haven't even begun to understand let alone know how to empathise is ridiculous, let alone do it on such a regular basis as is the case now.

How often is that as I really can't remember the last time.

Spoon +1

Seems barely a week goes by when the football games dont start with a minutes silence to remember the tragedy X, or the anniversary of Y, of the fallen of war Z.

Interesting points.

Free country I guess.

I also ignored the minute silence - I do remember hearing it was on, but had forgotten about it. Not sure whether I was silent anyway, but was probably practicing my trumpet at the time. Bothered? Not really. Not sure who would have benefited if I had. Recreational grieving is a bit daft IMHO - I'm not sure even the relatives of those killed get anything out of some random signing a book of condolence (which I gather is an option at our local cathedral).

I'm not totally heartless - I chucked a fiver in the collection at skating last night (they were doing free entry and taking a collection, it was the money I had with me to pay for the session, seemed reasonable).

I also ignored the minute silence - I do remember hearing it was on, but had forgotten about it. Not sure whether I was silent anyway,

I was processing my grief in my own unique way. Belting out "Whipping Piccadilly" whilst driving down the A3 and remembering nights out in Manchester.

I'm sure the kids (and adults) who are effected by it will be grieving in their own way whether that's a minutes silence or not.

For the rest of them and us it's only separated from the daily horrors that go on in the rest of the world by geography and i personally don't see why we should treat Manchester any diferent than the Maghreb, Mesopotamia or the levant.

Horrible things happen the world over every day but people largely don't care.

Maybe if we spent that minute trying to make everyone feel human instead of British and ritualising grief which most of us actually don't share any more than we do the pain and suffering of many of the inhabitants of Syria we might make some progress towards stopping these sorts of horrors.

*Self edit*

Children in schools ignoring minute silence for Manchester.

When you say ignoring, did they actually know about it? I haven't spoken to my kids about it tbh.

The climbing on the bandwagon of collective grief thing really boils my piss, the "my grief is more intense/appropriate than yours" thing that kicked off with Princess Diana's funeral just brings out indifference in me I'm afraid.

You must show your respect in the proscribed manner, at the proscribed time. Respect will be shown for certain events only, others will be ignored. You will share comments about how with people of city X are so wonderful and resilient. You will tweet inspiring memes about how the people of country Y aren't scared. These are the rules.

Was this schools that victims went to? A minutes silence in them seems reasonable. Or is it all schools?

You must show your respect in the proscribed manner, at the proscribed time. Respect will be shown for certain events only, others will be ignored. You will share comments about how with people of city X are so wonderful and resilient. You will tweet inspiring memes about how the people of country Y aren't scared. These are the rules.

Followed by the 2 minute hate?
[img] https://m.imgur.com/8sK5UPn [/img]

Kids being kids - how old?

My eldest is pretty upset about it, he's 11 and has been alternating between obsessing about it and forgetting about it. He was home all day for a teacher training day, but if I'd heard he'd not dutifully and respectfully observed the silence I'd be neither surprised or upset.

Kids are daft, but they're usually honest - will being silent for a minute undo what's happened? No, will the people directly affected feel the benefit of all this silence? No, its purpose it for the person being silent to feel that they're doing something when there's nothing they can do, if he wanted to be silent he would have been, if he wasn't, he didn't need to be.

What was far worse were the people (adults) with their mobiles out videoing the silence. I mean WTF?

And I never say WTF. Is this just so they can post it online and say 'Look at me I was at the silence'?

Pathetic.

Teacher here. We didn't take part in the silence in my class (30 x 7-8 year olds). Judging by the noise in other classrooms and the mower that was mowing right outside my window at the time I doubt anyone else did in the school.

I have no real excuse apart from not knowing there was a minute silence being observed. If I'd have known would we have taken part? I'm not sure.

Year 9's so 14?

I'm going to forget about it but it is interesting what they think about it.

1/4 of my 32 students did freely walk out and back in after the minute.

Interesting points. I guess it's there to create unity but doesn't always work.

Stay safe.

Jnr was in a GCSE Maths exam at the time. Now I'm sure they remained silent but they wouldn't have just stopped what they were doing.

The collective grief thing is interesting though. I'm a West Ham fan and the club have acknowledged that they now deal with a huge number of requests from supporters to remember other fans who have died - usually asking them to put a picture up of them on the big screens at a certain point of the match so the crowd applaud. If you watch most games for most clubs on TV now you'll hear the crowd burst in to applause at some random point. Anyway the club have said they can't do this any more as the crowd would end up applauding people who have died for practically the whole game every game. Instead they're going to run a fan rememberance display before matches on the big screens at various points of the season (i.e. not before every match).

There was a guy on R4 this morning making the case that we have ritualised grief to the point that it's no longer helping the grieving process.

I don't do organised grief. It feels like a box-ticking exercise, "there, I've done my bit, back to work."

Generally when there's organised silences I'll jump in the car and go find a quiet corner somewhere to actually contemplate the world, away from people who are doing it because they feel they have to (or feel that I have to). I understand the need to show collective defiance but for me I have to do it on my own terms.

Meanwhile we have a bomb being sent out by the RAF marked up with a love from Manchester slogan on it. A bomb which may well take out it's own fair share of innocent civilians. The hypocrisy makes me sick.

I blame Princess Diana.

You must show your respect in the proscribed manner, at the proscribed time.

So we'll only display grief in a prohibited way at a prohibited time? I'm not quite sure that's what you meant...

As for 'organised grief', I can see the point of view that the perceived frequency of minutes of silence devalues the whole idea, but for me having the immediate world fall (semi) silent and contemplate for a minute is still quite a powerful thing.

Meanwhile we have a bomb being sent out by the RAF marked up with a love from Manchester slogan on it. A bomb which may well take out it's own fair share of innocent civilians. The hypocrisy makes me sick.

And yes, this is just mind-bendingly stupid. An eye for an eye makes both men blind.

OUR brave boys in the RAF scrawled a message on a missile destined for ISIS fiends that read “Love from Manchester”.

Kids being kids. As others have said, the whole organised grief thing is slightly odd. I flicked through the news feed on my phone this morning and The Sun had a video of the perpetrator putting his bins out. WTF does that even mean?

Primary school didn't do the silence, secondary did.

Kids are kids. It's nice to show those affected that the nation recognises their loss. But I'm liking the phrase "recreational grieving". No idea how that started with Diana, we all went odd.

I wish the press would calm down about it now. Let those affected have time and privacy, let the security services do their job without being second guessed by studio experts.

I'm embarrassed enough to say that I didn't do the silence either, I hadn't a clue it was happening. The thought of my youngest sitting still & quiet for a minute in respect is pretty unlikely as well.
I'm guessing op doesn't have children

Everyone must show their remorse, they must.... why does everyone not want to out do each other by being more upset than the next person!!!! Don't get on with our lives, everything must stop, we must show a minutes silence on the news in a minutes silence, showing people being sad, more sadness.... how dare these urchins play in the sun and run around with childish abandon... they should be upset and quiet.... What's wrong with them?!?

[i]OUR brave boys in the RAF scrawled a message on a missile destined for ISIS fiends that read “Love from Manchester”.[/i]

from the Sun.
I wonder if those affected by Monday's awful event share the same eye for an eye feelings?

Or whether that actually happened or if it was just some bullshit made up by the Sun to whip everyone up into a feeding frenzy.

I had no idea is was on. It wasn't mentioned in the school I was teaching at either.
Not convinced it was relevant to us in Gloucestershire anyway. I agree that the events were terrible and wold go as far as saying that there was some national effect and concern but that is more for the greater concern rather than the event specific one. The primary children I was teaching on Tuesday were shocked ( we show Newsround daily) but it didn't really affect them once the moment had passed.
Within the Manchester a silence may have been valid or at schools and work places affected but otherwise they are as relevant as all the pathetic messages of condolence punted out to look good. Footie teams from across the world FFS.
Lots of bandwagon jumping if you ask me.
As or the RAF bomb thing, I haven't seen that but the sentiments are as valid as any others. To many, revenge and punishment is as important as turning the other cheek and those who don't agree with that are very welcome to their opinions but shouldn't want their own whilst objecting to others.

[i]Mrpottatohead >> I'd rather kids just got to be kids for as long as possible without having to think about all this awful shit.[/i]

All that needs to be said.

Kids being kids.

Basically. Depending on their age they have very little experience or concept about what has happened, those who lost friends excepted. I certainly wouldn't punish a kid for not respecting the silence fully, they are easily distracted and tend to think they're indestructible.

As for the minute silence for X,Y or Z becoming commonplace, that's more a reflection of the modern world. We have multiple wars and terrorist attacks globally at any one time. Terrible accidents or incidents happen daily somewhere so there's always something to justify a period of grieving for those affected. These periods of reflection can be very powerful for those involved. If people decide to partake in one I won't begrudge them doing so and will respect their silence if I'm in the vicinity.

One of my colleagues was killed. I dont need anyone telling me how to process it. I also missed the minutes silence but I know I was driving in silence at that time yesterday anyway. Is the act of silence enough in itself? I suspect for many the act and being seen partaking in the act is the important thing! I agree with a lot of the above and the ridiculous hashtags etc that really say "dont forget about me"

I have certainly reflected on the incident a lot since I found out about my co-workers death.

I was in a Governors meeting yesterday at 11, and the meeting was paused for the silence. Weird in my view - not sure what it achieved at all. I think I spent most of the minute thinking 'this is odd!' I'm as shocked and appalled as anyone else about what happened, but have no direct connection to it, and even if I did, stopping a meeting for a minute, has no purpose that I can see...

RAF bomb thing has been confirmed as real. On a guided weapon destined for Syria apparently. Black humour I guess, but certainly made me uncomfortable.

Approximately 151,600 people die each day, so if we value all life equally (which we should) and 20 odd people in Manchester get a minute's silence, then what about the other 151,580? How many minutes do they get?

Approximately 151,600 people die each day, so if we value all life equally (which we should) and 20 odd people in Manchester get a minute's silence, then what about the other 151,580? How many minutes do they get?

Katie Hopkins, is that you?

I'm not a fan of organised grief myself, but saying things like this is just crass.

but saying things like this is just crass

Well that's an opinion. I call it putting things in perspective.

20+ people I didn't know and never met have died. Tragic for their families / friends buy completely irrelevant to everyone else. The whole organised national grief thing just seems to be nonsense to me.

Why on earth would you want to make your children mourn them (going back to the OP's question)?

The point of a minutes silence is to try and get people to think about something other than themselves. Probably a futile effort given the self centred rubbish being spouted on this thread. If you don't agree with it, no one needs to know.

I went to see The Reduced Shakespeare Company not long after 9/11. There was a bit of audience interaction at one point and one person in the audience (American, I think. Not sure if that's relevant) asked for a minute's silence. The performers obliged - I can't think how they could have avoided it - and, to me at least, it felt weird.

If you don't agree with it, no one needs to know.

Why does it offend you so much that I don't?

I pay my respects and reflect on it in my own way. I don't need/want to be told when to, though I respect anyone wanting to observe a minutes silence organised, but don't object to anyone getting on with their business. I may or I may not observe it myself depending what I'm doing at the time.

Primary school didn't do the silence, secondary did.

I don't really do collective grief either, but it was observed by my year 12 physics class.

Katie Hopkins, is that you?

I'm not a fan of organised grief myself, but saying things like this is just crass.

I would prefer to say I care equally about all pointless deaths rather than be as crass as they were.

I also dont get collective grief and that only seems to have become a thing after Diana's death.

I can kind of see footflaps view but what I think he is missing is how he would feel if it was one of his nearest and dearest maimed or killed in the attack and a proportion of the population were taking the time out to give a minutes silence - I don't go for collective grief but no need to take anything away from those who have really suffered.

I got an email at 10:59 advising me of the silence. I ignored it and carried on as did my two colleagues. Who has the right to prescribe the time and duration? 11am? Isn't that the reserve of Armistice?

I'm totally pissed off with all these collective outpourings of "grief."

Idiots offering free hugs. Layabouts sitting on the floor painting empty words on the pavement. Huge piles of flowers accumulating around memorials. And don't get me started on worker bee tattoos. None of it does the families of the victims any good at all. It's just typical of these social media driven, self absorbed and undignified times we exist in now.

Meanwhile we have a bomb being sent out by the RAF marked up with a love from Manchester slogan on it.

Did they drop it on Manchester? That's where he was from, after all.

If people have to be compelled to do it or guilted into it, then it undermines the real thing. I observe these things- it's not grief, it's respect and solidarity- but I have to admit it annoys me when people give it lip service, you know fine well some people are silent but thinking about boobs.

With this one I'd have thought school kids would make more of a connection tbh, if this had happened in my town I'd have known people that were there, so how do you not look around your class and wonder? But it's a fine line between making a connection and being afraid that it's you next. And it affects people differently, how could it not?

Whether or not they should or shouldn't have the minutes silence ...the kids have been asked to do something in school and have disobeyed ... give em a slap.

Remembrance Sunday we had a minutes silence on the U6 rugby training field... you could have heard a pin drop... which was surprising really as normal training is like trying to herd cats for an hour 🙂

[quote=Dickyboy ]I can kind of see footflaps view but what I think he is missing is how he would feel if it was one of his nearest and dearest maimed or killed in the attack and a proportion of the population were taking the time out to give a minutes silence

I can't speak for footflaps, but if it was a relative or friend of mine I'd still think it weird that people who didn't know them were "grieving".

Actually that's probably not true - I don't suppose I'd give a stuff what some other random person was doing.

I mentioned this in passing but a minute's silence isn't necessarily grieving- it can be showing respect for those who've passed and remembrance, and support and solidarity for those left behind.

(actually, I can only think of a single minute's silence I've ever done that I'd consider to be personal grief)

This may or may not be relevent. I was recently in a play that featured a scene of simulated sexual violence that was attended by a number of schools. Without exception, for the schools audiences the racy scene was met with laughter, and the response of the cast was, with one exception, an angry condemnation of "them bloody kids" - the exception was the star of the show, a lecturer, who was happy to get a response. The nature of the response, he would argue, is irrelevant in the context of them seeing something they've not seen before, in that respect nervous laughter might be expected, and any kind of reaction en masse indicates an engagement wwith what they're seeing, which is to be welcomed. Hearing him say this totally changed my outlook on it, and made it a much more enjoyable play to be part of.

Silences aren't really my thing, grief isn't really a collective thing imo, neither do I really understand people actually grieving about people they don't actually know, but each to their own. I wouldn't disrespect them if i'm in attendance. If I actually disagree with a silence, I'd probably just make sure i'm not there.

I don't think they should be enforced upon children though. If you are going to do that, well you're just going to have to accept that a large percentage of them probably won't have a scooby and some disruption is likely, don't be getting yer knickers in a twist about it.

Applause's are generally a better way to go about it, imo, cuts out the space for the idiots to fill, but they aren't always appropriate, and wouldn't be in this instance.

How often is that as I really can't remember the last time

Westminster attack - at least in our business. When someone dies in an incident at work (Depressingly, twice in last 12 months). Before football matches a few weeks ago for Ugo Ehiogu...