You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
So, our childminder told us today she has bought a border collie.
For context she drops off and picks up our two young daughters from school two days a week and has other younger children all day. She runs the business from her house and looks after the kids there.
Both our girls, particularly the eldest, are wary/frightened by dogs following several incidents of out of control dogs at the local park. We do introduce them to dogs we know are ok to try and easy their fear but it's very slow going and we are nowhere near overcoming it.
I have known plenty of collies as both working dogs and pets from working on farms during university and as a general rule they were excellent workers but utter ****s socially, pretty intolerant and would snap without warning. I am ok with dogs but am always wary around collies and other working breeds.
I just have visions of this ending up being one of those stories on the news after the dog mauls a kid.
Am I being totally unreasonable to be concerned and thinking this is a bit of a dick move by the childminder?
Yes you are being unreasonable.
It’s about how the dog is raised not the breed. As long as the child minder is raising the dog responsibly, and you have no reason to presume that they aren’t, I don’t think it’s really any of your business what sort of dog that they choose to have.
No, I understand your worries but as a private childminder, I don't really see what say you have in it. If it bothers you, find a new childminder.
They should have told you about it beforehand though, rather than drop it in.
Actually rereading your post - have they actually GOT it yet, or are they actually telling you they've bought it and you've got weaning timescale to like it or lump it. That's different to buying an adult dog and it turning up one day unannounced.
And +1 to how it's raised rather than the breed - but I too have experience of BC's being a bit snappy.
I'm not sure what your problem is - just get a different childminder if it bothers you 🤷♂️
I've known lots of lovely collies so I don't think there's anything about the breed itself to worry about. As already said, maybe this will be a bit of a learning experience for them - if and when they get to meet the dog (which they might not).
If the childminder had dogs before then I'd have no issue. Even then, if they are new to having a dog then I imagine a lot of their childminder skills are transferable to raising a dog.
To put it another way, I'd not let someone look after my kids if I didn't think they could look after a dog.
The last dog that bit me, producing a significant amount of blood, was a BC. Well trained, allegedly, and "he's never done that before".
It was bought while they were on holiday and is being bought home today. It's a puppy. This is their first dog. I suspect this was a bit of an impulse buy.
Having had the kids there for 4 years I don't hold out hope it'll get the amount of walking, training and stimulation a collie needs. I've been around working breeds for years and they definitely have different needs than other breeds. I wouldn't be anywhere near as worried if they'd bought a dachshund!
I really don't want my kids sat there frightened for 3 hours.
There are no other childminders who pick up from school so it's there or try and reduce my hours at work.
It's their decision.
If you don't like it then it's on you to change the situation -not them.
Fwiw my child minder as a kid had a dog - this isn't new.
+1 for an opportunity to get used to dogs.
If it’s raised with the kids as a pup then i wouldn’t have an issue, the pup will love the kids, if
Very much this. My daughter's grown up round my best mates German shepherd -i don't doubt he would defend her to the death. The sister in law's rescue lab - I don't turn my back on it.
This is their first dog
They are in for a steep learning curve!
Our Collie was our first dog and hard but rewarding work.
I wouldn't be without her though.
My border collie is 14 now had a horrible first 18 months of her life and is absolutely soft as a brush
Yes that can be hard work but are hardly snappy. I've had working ones too if well trained they are fantastic dogs.
They are very nervous dogs I will conceded that and can be possessive of a particular family member (my wife in our case)
Well trained I could think of no better dog around small children
as a puppy, different matter, perfect chance for the kids to get used to and confident around a dog.
However, as a puppy they will get 'bitten' - nipped really - it's a fact of life with puppies, until they grow / are trained out of it.
A lot of how the childminder deals with this will inform how the dog will be later. You don't say how old your kids are - you say at school and that they've been with the CM for 4 years, but that could be pretty well any primary age in my mind. If older, rather than toddler+ they can help to train the nipping out and will understand that it is the puppy learning, and will be a good experience for them.
You can then decide based on how the dog has learned what risk it is as it reaches adolescence, which can then be a concern - my lovely little girl became a stubborn little sod at that age until order was re-established.
I know 4 BC owners, 2 proper working dogs - I wouldn't trust any of them in the slightest around children.
You are not being unreasonable. I like most dogs, but my wife is wary to the point of being scared of them. As a pediatric nurse she's seen the aftermath of dog/child interaction. I have a bigger problem with dog owners who seem to think it's fine to inflict their pets on other people. I'd be finding another childminder.
They are very nervous dogs I will conceded that and can be possessive of a particular family member (my wife in our case)
Well trained I could think of no better dog around small children
I'm going to contest this I'm afraid; neighbours is fantastically well trained and works with the police / lowland rescue as a tracker, but has snapped at both me and my son and is very possessive of the wife of the house (the cause of the aggressive behaviour with me, not sure what happened with my son). I'm not scared of the dog, but I am wary around it. And he is quite a big powerful dog too.....
Just get a new childminder if it bothers you. Nowt you can do about it. Ask the new one about any potential dog ownership plans.
If it bothers you then just look after your own kids. You chose to have them after all.
The kids are 5 and 8. Getting "nipped" will definitely not improve their view of dogs.
It's getting run at, chased and nipped by young dogs in the park that has made them scared of them in the first place.
Getting “nipped” will definitely not improve their view of dogs.
well it's going to happen, all puppies do it. Virtually every kid brought up in a house with a puppy has been nipped, and go on to have valuable trusting relationships with dogs - maybe even because of it rather than in spite of it.
It's play to the puppy, until they learn that it isn't a game to their humans, and that's where if the CM is firm and consistent in their treatment, and also the kids in their care do the same and remove the game as soon as the puppy nips, then it actually might not be the traumatic experience you're imagining it to be.
It's not the same as being chased and bitten by a 6-12mo old dog in the park.
I'd talk to the CM myself and see what plans are. Maybe the pup will be excluded to other areas unless fully supervised? But in the end - see my first answer.
[edit - for clarity by puppy I mean proper young pups, up to say 20-odd weeks at which point adult teeth will be coming through and nipping should have been stopped. Older dogs shouldn't nip at all. Although mine will mouth in rough play, which technically we shouldn't allow.....]
Sadly some farmers see them as just another tool no interaction outside the dogs working life to me that's not trained just lazy ownership.
My dog spent the first part of her life in a 1 bedroom flat and had never been on a walk. It took 3 years of work and to get her to 99% and as owners we have always been aware of her past.
Dog ownership is a 2 way street.
Is the childminder self-employed or your employee? If the latter, what does your contract say? If the former then it's up to her what she does, and up to you if you want to find someone else without justification or explanation if you don't like how she does things.
How old is the puppy? If they are afraid of a ten week old puppy then they really do have a problem.
If it bothers you then just look after your own kids. You chose to have them after all.
Thanks for that insightful judgment. We do 99% of the time but like most parents we need to work and in our case only seek support for a few hours a week.
We aren't the only parents wary of this as some of the others have just asked us what we think.
SiL is a child minder as a commercial enterprise, offering similar services to those yours sounds to do. So it is likely her business will be quite heavily regulated and their home subjected to a risk assessment for it to be deemed safe to operate as a child minder. Introducing a dog changes the risk profile. Questions such as what will the kids be doing when the dog is taken out for the necessary walks. Will the kids be left alone with the pooch? Where will it be kept during the day when it inevitably poos and pees on the floor. Will your kids be around that? Etc.
All of these issues should be addressed before the dog lands, or they would have to be addressed when the minder is next inspected*.
Personally, I’m also not a fan of BC, too snappy. And having worked for insurers in injury claims against pet owners, BCs did figure more than any other breed for nips and bites.
By the way, I love dogs, still getting over the loss of our little girl last June.
*assuming she is above board etc and not doing this in the QT.
No, I don't think you're being unreasonable. I don't think it's very responsible for a childminder to take on a puppy when her day job involves children. How exactly if she going to train a pup whilst there's little 'uns to entertain/supervise? Puppy pi**ing on the floor, nappies to change, children to toilet, bottoms to wipe. Sounds a nightmare.
It's nothing to do with the breed, it's bringing an animal into her (not full-time) workplace and expecting her clientele to simply accept it, without any forewarning or the courtesy to discuss it.
Nah, that's not right.
Questions such as what will the kids be doing when the dog is taken out for the necessary walks.
How exactly if she going to train a pup whilst there’s little ‘uns to entertain/supervise? Puppy pi**ing on the floor, nappies to change, children to toilet, bottoms to wipe. Sounds a nightmare.
Childminders don't all live alone.
Can't it just be kept separate from the kids whilst the childminder is working?
My (and my 2 sisters) child minder had a border collie, he was awesome, he was around from all of us being 2-14. YMMV.
Having had the kids there for 4 years I don’t hold out hope it’ll get the amount of walking, training and stimulation a collie needs.
You trust them with your kids, but not a dog?
Won’t somebody please think of the children.
Do you know that they're even going to be in the same room?
Dogs seem to have more rights than anyone else. The world has gone mad.
No they don't. Stop being silly and argumentative.
Sounds like the OP needs to talk to the CM and find out what plans are and then make a decision.
Puppy pi**ing on the floor, nappies to change, children to toilet, bottoms to wipe. Sounds a nightmare.
Yup, I agree, it's definitely not a job that I would want to do. But "how will she cope" doesn't seem to be what is worrying the OP. It's whether the dog will attack the children:
I just have visions of this ending up being one of those stories on the news after the dog mauls a kid.
I see more news stories about people winning big on the lottery than kids being mauled by border collies. Inc puppies.
Just look at the evil savagery in this ones eyes
A lot of presumption going on in this thread. Until the OP actually has an adult conversation with his childminder to find out what exactly they plan to do regarding the dog then everything else is just pointless speculation.
I wouldn’t be anywhere near as worried if they’d bought a dachshund!
I would be, they're proper little bastards, they bite and don't let go.
FWIW our childminder has a BC/Greyhound cross and she's absolutely lovely.
Mate has a 1yo dachshund. And a 14 week old daughter. Dog and daughter are smitten with each other.
I see more news stories about people winning big on the lottery than kids being mauled by border collies. Inc puppies.
I see more stories about children suffering from food allergies.
https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/a-childs-best-friend-how-a-dog-can-stop-kids-getting-food-allergies/
"Traditionally, dogs might be a man’s best friend but they can be the best medicine for children, according to scientists.
Researchers have found having a dog, and preferably two, can protect a child against developing allergies.
Youngsters in households with dogs, from three months old, were 90% less likely to develop food intolerances.
And they were also less likely to become asthmatic."
How hot is the childminder? We need the full picture.
How hot is the childminder? We need the full picture.
That's less "border collie" and more "easy tiger."
YES UABU.
It's the childminders house and life. If you don't like the situation, you can move your kids to somewhere else. If you raised it as an issue with her I suspect she would be surprised.
Border Collies are amazing dogs. They have no 'breed tendency' toward being aggressive at all. If you've experienced aggressive toward human collies, they've either been mistreated, trained to be aggressive, or have very little contact with humans.
They can get frustrated if not exercised and kept mentally stimulated - but it's just a matter of training and looking after your dog. This is true of all dogs.
It sounds like you're wary of some dogs yourself and have passed this onto your kids. They pick that stuff up.
This is a great opportunity for them to experience a dog from a puppy, and to learn they are animals to be respectful of and can make your life more fulfilling, and are not to be feared.
Again, your choice - it's her life, and her business, if you don't like it, you have the choice to take your business elsewhere.
2 whippets and a galgo here.
IF this BC is going to be well trained, socialised and stimulated then no problem - amazing dogs.
If not, then don't have bare ankles around it, nippy buggers in my experience (one time postie, delivery driver and a BC owned by a regular customer). Not surprising when you see how they herd sheep.
To be clear, I've met lovely friendly BC's which have had a lot of work put into them, but met many times more nippy territorial ones. On average not a dog I would choose to leave my kids with. First time dog owners though? Steep learning curve ahead indeed.
Get a new childminder or they'll be hassling you for a dog. Or stick with her so they can enjoy a dog without the hassle of owning one.
SiL is a child minder as a commercial enterprise, offering similar services to those yours sounds to do. So it is likely her business will be quite heavily regulated and their home subjected to a risk assessment for it to be deemed safe to operate as a child minder.
Unless the OP is using an unregistered child minder, of course 😂
Yes, you are being unreasonable....you can't dictate how the child minder lives, if you don't like it, find a new childminder
Isn’t your starting point is to have a chat with the childminder about how they’re planning to manage this change in their domestic circumstances, then evaluate whether that works for you and your children.
I’m a youth worker and Collie owner - our last one became the unofficial ‘team dog’, was a beautiful big gentle furry friend to lots of the kids, and I trusted her implicitly. She helped several of the kids I work with get over their fear of dogs, and several of them were genuinely upset when she passed away. Our new pup, at 11 months, is a proper wilful little madam at times, and not averse to grabbing my wife’s waistline chubby bits in her teeth if she’s not getting the attention she wants. I only bring her to work when I can supervise her, and she never gets out of my sight around the younger kids. The point being that dogs have their own characters, and what is true of one won’t be for another, even if they have the same owner and been trained much the same way. Collies are usually very intelligent, but definitely come across as being a bit ‘on the spectrum’, so if the childminder is used to dealing with children who are neurodiverse, she’ll probably get in fine with her new pup.
And so the once proud forum of STW completed its slow transition into Mumsnet.
Puppy pi**ing on the floor, nappies to change, children to toilet, bottoms to wipe. Sounds a nightmare.
Yup, I agree, it’s definitely not a job that I would want to do. But “how will she cope” doesn’t seem to be what is worrying the OP. It’s whether the dog will attack the children
It's all of the above really. I have concerns about it being a very energetic, intelligent breed that needs lots of walking, stimulation and training and how is it going to get that whilst she is running a full time childminding business on her own all day. She is being paid quite a lot to look after people children, not their dog after all. I know BCs get nippy and destructive when they get bored or don't get trained properly so one concern about its upbringing leads to another about its behaviour.
Do you know that they’re even going to be in the same room?
I can't see how they could be separated properly given the house layout unless the dog was shut upstairs all day. Plus, it couldn't be walked during the day unless it was taken out with the children. Hence my concerns above about lack of stimulation etc leading to a not well adjusted bitey dog.
You trust them with your kids, but not a dog?
I trust them with either kids or a dog, not both at the same time.
As above I can't see how it will get the needed attention when she is on her own the whole working day without impacting either the care of the dog or the care of the children.
If it’s raised with the kids as a pup then i wouldn’t have an issue, the pup will love the kids,
Our friends recently got a puppy. The first time the girls saw it it jumped up and knocked over our then 4 year old and was licking her face before it was caught. It terrified her as all she saw was teeth coming at her. No amount of reasoning has managed to convince her otherwise. It's now a well trained dog but that took a huge amount of effort and time from the owners and they weren't running a full time childminding business from their home. Our youngest still won't go near it despite our efforts to convince her otherwise.
A couple of interactions like this and seeing me bitten by a "friendly, he's never done that before" dog whilst out cycling with them seems to have set a deep rooted fear we are struggling to overcome.
I've almost got them ok with some of the very elderly dogs that go down to the park and am working back towards younger well trained dogs. Throwing a nippy puppy at them now is only going to reinforce their view of dogs, teeth, bite.
assuming she is above board etc and not doing this in the QT
She's OFSTED registered so I'll be asking for the risk assessment and what her plans are for looking after the children whilst raising/training a dog. I just wanted to understand if I was completely out of line before even raising it with her when they get back of holiday on Monday
And so the once proud forum of STW completed its slow transition into Mumsnet.
More like dadsnet. There's been a distinct lack of female representation around here in recent years
We have 2 collies they love attention, playing and tummy rubs. No aggression at all.
Very loving dogs and always been good with my son
I just wanted to understand if I was completely out of line before even raising it with her when they get back of holiday on Monday
I get the concern, but all you can do is raise and if you are not satisfied, take the kids elsewhere.
I do think that you and your kids anxieties around dogs needs looking at somehow. They are part of life, the kids need to know how to deal with them.
Just to be clear, I am not scared of dogs. I am careful around working dogs having worked on farms.
I am trying to get the kids less scared of dogs but it is a long slow process getting them.to.overcome their fear and I don't want them being 'nipped' which will not help with that.
Had a border collie growing up - she was the softest natured dog and wouldn't snap at you even if you stood on her, I was about 10 when we adopted her at 9 months old (due to being a failed working dog due to the soft nature) but my brother is a few years younger and whilst my parents did their best she was poked/pulled a lot and always was a super chill pup.
Parents got another collie 2 years ago - this one came from a house of about 10 children and whilst she's a little more manic/less chill she is incredibly loving (to the point she'll throw herself into your arms, can't not be involved in a hug and has to constantly get you gifts/toys) She also seems to have been carried a lot as a pup as absolutely loves being carried/held/picked up - whether its upside-down like a baby (tricky due to her size, upright under her belly!
UANBU, imo.
Valid concerns, regardless of breed.
If your kids are already scared of dogs, then it is wise to monitor which dogs they are being exposed to.
Speak to your CM, and depending on her reaction, make a decision then.
The breed is irrelevant, it’s all about how the dog is treated.
I come from a farm, and we let out a couple of stables to a guy who trained collies for other farmers, as well as having our own collies, and I’ve been round plenty of neighbouring farms too, we had a collie that got into a pen with 8 goslings, it killed them all, then hid them. Yet the same dog never bit, or nipped, or mouthed any human.
Fwiw, a collie in a loving home where the owner wanted it and spent the time with it I wouldn’t be worried, that puppy will view your kids as it’s pack. You’re more likely to be nipped than they are.
My great aunt was a cleaner for a neighbouring farmer, he had 2 collies, she was the only one who could go in the house, when the old fellow died, the police had to be called to shoot the poor dogs, they’d never been properly socialised.
I have 12 years until I retire, my retirement present to myself is gonna be an ebike and a BC.
I like the mentalness.
Speak to your CM.
She’s OFSTED registered so I’ll be asking for the risk assessment and what her plans are for looking after the children whilst raising/training a dog
Excellent plan...review risk assessment, get OFSTED involved, she gets closed down, you don't have a child minder.
Its a puppy, get the kids excited about it. They will love it and they will no longer be scared of dogs. Lots of win imo.
I think you’re being unreasonable. It’s a dog not a tiger, they’re pretty common. Anyway, isn’t there a distinct chance your kids will totally love it after like 3 days or something.
Border Collies are so intelligent, but ime don't make good pets.
There are exceptions, but again, ime, that only happens when they have owners who have lots of experience with the breed and dogs in general.
We've had quite a few in the family and some have been great with kids, but some have been jealous and frankly unpleasant to be around.
Excellent plan…review risk assessment, get OFSTED involved, she gets closed down, you don’t have a child minder.
Someone asked if she was registered. I was confirming she is. At no point have I said I was going to report her to ofsted or get them shut down.
So you think asking how she has risk assessed this or how she is going to deal with a dog whilst looking after numerous kids is wrong??!
Its a puppy, get the kids excited about it. They will love it and they will no longer be scared of dogs. Lots of win imo
Alternatively, kids are anxious about dogs already having been nipped by pups,dogs. Kids get nipped again as 'thats what puppys do' which reinforces their view of dogs completely undoing any progress I've made over the last couple of years trying yo make them less scared of dogs.
Everyone loses.
I’d be wary just because a lot of people seem to be getting dogs at the moment and doing literally no training or anything. Seem to be an increasing number of them out of control when out and about.
I thought one was attacking my two kids, sunk it’s teeth into something and started shaking it’s head side to side. Fortunately it was just my two year olds soft toy she was holding, but I had no idea at the time. Kids starts screaming, dog gets excited, all got out of control v quickly.
Hooray. Descending again into another 'give me some advice', 'No not that advice' thread.
Sounds like your mind is made up and unless you can persuade the CM to cancel their puppy order, then you have to move your kids
Close thread.
You're very angry about this. Are you a border collie yourself?
You trust them with your kids, but not a dog?
The kids don't live with the childminder. HTH.
OP is not being unreasonable.
Asking to see the risk assessment from a part time childminder is a bit odd. Asking how they want to handle keeping the dog-averse kid separate from the untrained dog is totally reasonable and what a grown-up would do.
You know,
Unreasonable or not is neither here nor there. You have concerns, even if they are unreasonable ones they're still concerns, so the grown-up thing to do would be to talk to her and say "I have concerns," then see how she responds. If the kids are genuinely scared of dogs then at the very least she needs to be made aware of that.
At the moment it looks like you're operating mostly on assumption and guesswork. You need to apply the Four Fs rule - First Find the Facts.
Also,
There are ways of managing the issues you're raising. Maybe a neighbour or a hitherto unmentioned boyfriend is walking the dog. Maybe it is going to be shut upstairs.
My partner's daughter has a boy just turned one, and a two-year old Staffy with a puppy brain and the body of a full-grown dog. When it's nappy-change time the dog gets locked in his crate out of the way.
You know,
Unreasonable or not is neither here nor there. You have concerns, even if they are unreasonable ones they’re still concerns, so the grown-up thing to do would be to talk to her and say “I have concerns,” then see how she responds. If the kids are genuinely scared of dogs then at the very least she needs to be made aware of that.
At the moment it looks like you’re operating mostly on assumption and guesswork. You need to apply the Four Fs rule – First Find the Facts.
Jus got to agree with that 100%.
If its a puppy then theres likely to be no problems, and probably good for both parties. Dog gets use to screaming excitable kids, kids get used to being int he company of a dog.
But yes all dogs somewhere down the line have attacked, killed, injured everyone from babies,kids,adults and anyone suggesting that its the owners fault, or improper training or whatever miss the point completely. Yes dogs can be dangerous.
Sounds like your mind is made up and unless you can persuade the CM to cancel their puppy order, then you have to move your kids
Close thread.
Not really. The sensible advice was to speak to her and ask their intentions which is what I've said I'll do when they are back on Monday. The outcome of that discussion will determine what we do next.
The comments saying it'll all be great, don't worry, and the kids will think it's great and love the dog are so far off the mark. After reading the newsletter it was announced in they are already worried about going next week and asking what will happen. If you have any useful advice on how address the fear of 2 young children other than just telling they are wrong and that they'll think it's wonderful then I'll listen to that too.
If you have any useful advice on how address the fear of 2 young children other than just telling they are wrong and that they’ll think it’s wonderful then I’ll listen to that too.
Well for a start
The comments saying it’ll all be great, don’t worry, and the kids will think it’s great and love the dog are so far off the mark
already shows your mindset. How can they be wide of the mark, it hasn't happened yet, and yet we're all wrong in our predictions? They might not think it's great now, they might with some justification be worried about it. Your job as a parent is to not pander to those perceptions, rather to manage them. But your language suggests you have already decided how it's going to go.
So, you said any useful advice.
1/ Talk to the childminder, see what their plans are and explain your kid's concerns. Do it out of earshot, just you saying they have concerns validate them further.
2/ Explain to the kids that puppies are not really biting, it's part of puppy play in the same way that a baby will scratch or pull hair if it can. They need to learn not to do it.
3/ Even as a 4yo, they can do this. If the puppy starts nipping at hands, take them away. Fold arms, put them under armpits and withdraw attention. Get them to stand up and turn back / ignore the puppy.
4/ Trying to grab feet and ankles is the same, a puppy doesn't know difference between hands and feet, they're just toys to chase. If it tries to grab feet, stand still, toys that don't play back quickly get boring.
5/ A puppy understands 'OW!' - that's what its litter mates would do if play got too rough, they'd squeal and stop playing. Maybe with the CM teach the word they're going to use for no - might be NO! or OFF! or whatever, but puppy will learn and learn fast.
6/ Give it time, and a chance. You can always move them after, but as they've been there for years sounds like they have a good relationship with the CM and moving is a last resort. Ask them to give the puppy a chance.
My concerns, and I'll be honest here.
7/ I'm not entirely trusting of BC's, although others MMV. But it's a puppy, not a full grown dog, so irrelevant at this point.
8/ The CM needs to make sure all the kids follow the same routines - consistency is the key to getting the results she wants so it's in their interest to manage that, but will other parents of more robust kids be as supportive, and let them treat the pup as a toy.
My work colleague and his wife have a BC and two young sons aged 3yrs and 7months.
I'm a dog owner myself and know that Penny is a beautiful, placid, well mannered, highly intelligent dog that has never shown anything but love to the boys. It is a result of and reflects their household though.
Maybe your child minder wants the peace and serenity that being out in nature with a dog brings after a day of looking after children?
It would be completely unreasonable of you to try to control how the childminder lives their personal life, including pet ownership.
It is however completely reasonable to discuss with them the matter of your dog-averse children and how they will be accommodated in an environment potentially containing an untrained dog (that may also be demanding attention from the childminder). And if you're not happy with the situation, move.
I would be looking for the possibility of a positive outcome whereby your children are looked after in a safe environment with the potential for carefully controlled interaction with a well-behaved adorable puppy that will help to overcome their fears. Being able to cope with other peoples' dogs is a skill that's worth developing.
If you have any useful advice on how address the fear of 2 young children other than just telling they are wrong and that they’ll think it’s wonderful then I’ll listen to that too.
Buy them a puppy of their own. 😁
Honestly, what you're describing here is borderline phobia. I'm no expert on such things but there are tested and true means of tackling phobias. Introduce them to Known Good dogs maybe, or have a wander round somewhere selling puppies? I don't know.
With young kids though I reckon I'd be trying to address it early rather than avoiding it and letting it develop into a potentially lifelong problem. Dogs exist, they're going to have to get used to that. You're going to have to get used to that.
A lot of knee-jerk responses about the childminder being free to live their life and it's none of OPs business if they get a dog.
That's BS.
A registered childminder is taking your child into their home and has a strict code of conduct they're supposed to follow, which includes who else is in the house, for obvious reasons. It also covers pets, so any changes to that are supposed to be discussed with parents in advance.
If you're paying for x goods then someone can't just give you y goods without notification.
someone can’t just give you y goods without notification.
That's the only issue as far as I can see - lack of sufficient notification. If that's what has happened, which appears to be the case.
All the other stuff is neither here nor there imo.
Fair comments. But does that give the client the right to tell the provider that they won't be removing their child from the childminders, and therefore the CM can't have a dog? I think not, in the end the CM is free to decide if they're going to have a dog, and everyone else is free to decide if they are happy to have their kids at a dog owning CM.
For sure the CM should have communicated better / earlier, and needs to ensure there are new and appropriate procedures and risk assessments for how the kids and dog will have contact. But that's as far as the OP's 'rights' go as far as I can see, other than the ultimate right of customers.
@jonm81 sounds like you're taking the reasonable route. I can relate to people with phobias (this definitely sounds like a phobia) as my sister in law is not good round dogs so can appreciate how you are anxious about your daughters (and their anxiety). Best of luck whatever way you go, it's not easy to undo these things .
But yes all dogs somewhere down the line have attacked, killed, injured everyone from babies,kids,adults and anyone suggesting that its the owners fault, or improper training or whatever miss the point completely.
Which is what? Because aside from an owner taking reasonable precautions in one way or another to prevent their dog hurting others I'm a bit lost as to what the point is. Untrained/feral animals acting like untrained/feral animals isn't news.
How can they be wide of the mark, it hasn’t happened yet, and yet we’re all wrong in our predictions?
Maybe OP knows OP's kids better than you do? Just an idea.
I would be, they’re proper little bastards, they bite and don’t let go.
Yep, mines a murderous little sod. Just about the softest dog you’ll ever meet.
Yep, mines a murderous little sod. Just about the softest dog you’ll ever meet.
Just going from anecdotal evidence as everyone else seems to be, mate works in A&E and has lost count how many dachshund bites she's had to stitch up vs any other breed. Like a lot of small dogs they can suffer from small bastard syndrome if you let them.
They can, admittedly be, but like everyone has said on here it helps bringing them up right. Ours was socialised with lots of other dogs from an early age, and lots of young kids.
If anything ours is too trusting and wants to jump up and greet everyone. Tried training it out of him but he just likes people too much.