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Just received our letter and proposed fees for when Daffy Jnr's 15 free hours of nursery care start in Jan.
We currently pay for 50 hours of care (but honestly use around 35) at approximately £5 per hour. The math savy amongst you will have worked this out to be £250 a week. Now, one would assume that by reducing his hours by 15 would equate to a saving of £75 a week for the 38 weeks of entitlement... Not so, their fee rate is £194 per week.
So instead of realising a 30% saving, it's now more like 20% or only receiving 10 hours. They state in the small print that an admin fee will be applied, but this is ridiculous; over £1000 of admin fee!
Is there anyone you can go to about this?
yeah so called admin and "penalty" clauses have to be fair, they cannot "fine" you only ask or payment of their losses. So this admin fee sounds like a fine to me. I would seek CAB advice or see if a solicitor will do a 1/2 hr free for yu to get you going in the right direction.
Sounds like you have things mixed up?
You were paying £250 a week for 50 hours of care.
Now you'll be paying £194 for 35 hours of care?
Out of that price an amount will be fixed (all the paperwork, overheads, etc) and the rest is variable. If Jr only does 1 hour a week or 100, theres still going to be a certain about of fixed cost to cover.
If you dont like it shop around and take your business elsewhere?
Seem to remember you don't get 15 hrs a week for the whole year but only for term time, So works out a bout 10 or 11 hrs per week spread over the year.
The free entitlement Is only for 38 weeks, but the statement categorically states that during term time rates will rise to the full amount; this weekly bill is not averaged over the full 52 weeks.
If you dont like it shop around and take your business elsewhere?
Fair point, but I shouldn't have to uproot the munchkin because his nursery are being somewhat mercenary.
I spoke to a friend of mine who owns a nursery, and he advised me that the rules around the 15hrs have changed to be more flexible in the nursery's favor.
For example, ours go 3 days per week - he said don't be surprised if they allocated 3hrs per day as "free", hence we'd only get 9.
He did say that a call to Ofsted can ask them to investigate whether the rules are being enforced on your behalf fairly or not, and the nursery could be made to do so if not.
Child care is a nightmare money fest. I thought the 15hrs would save us loads, it didn't. It's worse now they are at school as need to invoke friends and family to look after them while we work. We'd almost be better off not working. Where's the logic in that?!?!
Rant off 🙂
Do we have an enemy list on here? I'm not here that much but would like to not have to read oldmanmtb any more after that comment.
The man has a point though in my opinion.
No my wife is part time for exactly that reason, I just live in the real world and realise these things are difficult. Your 'troll' bracketing doesn't (In my opinion) allow you to behave like a dick.
My phone originally wrote 'duck'... maybe I should have stuck with that
Daffy, I feel your pain. Our nursery has a formula so complicated I doubt Stephen hawkin could work it out. I work for a local authority and know people in early years. Had a chat. They said they know its an issue with that particular provider, but, "what can you do"....i am sure we were not getting 15 hours free, but 15 hours at a slightly reduces rate.
AA v1 also went to a church run playgroup. They openly had 2 rates, one for cash and a higher rate if using Feee
Why does life balance have to mean giving up work! Stupid bloody comment that always rears its head on these threads. Nurseries are taking the proverbial, parents have a right to work without being fleeced or abused by pond life on here.
Note, he has been deleted now.
I was wondering where my post had gone suggesting he/she was a second login!
40hrs a week costs us £110 a month here in Sweden
I wonder who pays for this "free" childcare? If the parent cares for their own children (there's a novel idea these days!) at home, can they claim the equivalent amount from us taxpayers?
Do you use your salary sacrifice vouchers thing?
These people spouting the 'subsidised children' guff do realise that those will one day be the wage earners who subsidise their bottom wiping service don't they?
Lady Gresley - MemberI wonder who pays for this "free" childcare? If the parent cares for their own children (there's a novel idea these days!) at home, can they claim the equivalent amount from us taxpayers?
Please tell me you aren't so stupid that I have to explain it to you?
If it helps, the subsidy from the government is barely enough to cover the wages of the staff required.
I apologise for my post (which has been removed) and it was designed to provoke a reaction (no apology for that approach) - I am sure that the average nursery is not taking anyone's eyes out more than any other business and the old adage of " the market will pay what the market will stand" holds true and frankly if you can afford a £1000 of net income a month on child care then you probably have financial room to make different decisions? I am sure there are people on this site that only earn the minimum wage and I am not sure how they would view some one having a rant (not my words) about paying £5 hour for child care.
Please try to keep up - my child is 3 years old, meaning that my £5 per hour is 1/6 of the child to carer ratio.
This is also a national chain. The only reason I can "afford" £1000 per month is because we don't spend money on almost anything else. Are you a homeowner? I'm not, my limited funds get spent on my Son.
Careful Oldman thats the sort of thinking that got TJ removed.
Never got a penny for child care. Ours are 12 and 9. Why are you moaning? You had the kids etc etc
Oh wake up you self righteous taunt. 12 years ago property prices were 1/4 of what they are now and childcare wasn't 60% of take home.
Perhaps it's still my fault, *facepalm* I should've thought ahead and been born earlier!
Never got a penny for child care. Ours are 12 and 9. Why are you moaning? You had the kids etc etc
In some ways a fair point. But the op has a right to make sure he's being treated fairly regardless of the services he's paying for.
Could always look after them yourself
over £1000 of admin fee!
How are you calculating that?
The difference between what the reduction per week should be and what's actually being charged (~£20) multiplied by the number of weeks I have to pay it. 52*20 = £1040.
Could always look after them yourself
Carefull, I imagine you're the sort to be expecting children to look after their parents in old age rather than dump them in a care home for others to look after, still.....I'm sure a few visits a year to show off the new car and how well they are doing in their career will provide comfort to the parents.
#thisis****edupnoexcuseforit
This is turning into one of those depressing threads where some folk out themselves as arses 🙁
No its just the general reaction you will get on here. You had the kids, learn to pay more for holidays, your choice, suck it up princess etc etc
[quote=Daffy ]The difference between what the reduction per week should be and what's actually being charged (~£20) multiplied by the number of weeks I have to pay it. 52*20 = £1040.
38*20 = £760?
The difference between what the reduction per week should be and what's actually being charged (~£20) multiplied by the number of weeks I have to pay it. 52*20 = £1040.
Should it not be £19 (75-56) x 38 (number of weeks the discount is applied) = £722
aracer beat me to it
I am, and do generally just suck it up. I did make the choice to have children, I also made the choice to keep the little fella at home for as long as we could (15 months) before having to send him to nursery. We have NO family support, and so it's quite a heavy burden. We've delayed buying a house until the point when the 15 free hours kick in, at which point he'll also be going down to just 4 days. The idea was that 1 day (10 hours) + 15 free hours from the government would cover exactly half of the of the fees for 38weeks of the year, with childcare vouchers almost making up the rest...
The fact that the fees actually drop from £1065 per month to only £670 and not the £532.50 is somewhat irritating from a maths point of view.
I'm an engineer by profession and as such, maths and facts are the tools I use to do my job - equations should balance.
Therefore, if 50Y = X
Then by same same rule and when all else remains equal, 25Y must and should = 0.5X.
15 hours free no probs in the nursery within our local school and additonal hours or sessions are also very good value , £25 for a full school day.Breakfast and after schoolclub on offer too providing decent food and recreation and only costs £10 for four hours.Free school lunches now too.Before ours could go to nursery/school we took three years off work between us thanks to our employers and the relevant family friendly legislation,no childcare costs and no salary but we'd budgeted for it.
Struggling to find anything to complain about with the current childcare provision round here.
*edit* which is no help to you,sorry
Therefore, if 50Y = X
Then by same same rule and when all else remains equal, 25Y must and should = 0.5X.
50Y + overhead = X
Okay the figures are as follows:
Current = £1065 PCM = £12780 per year, or £245.8 per week
Going down by 25 hours for 38 weeks and 10 hours for 14 weeks [i]should[/i] come to £7412 (38*122.6 + 14*196.54)
What it actually comes to is £8833 (38*160 + 14*196.54)
A total difference of £1422 which is ~£120 a month.
Who is stealing from you exactly?
Whys the kid in for 50 hours a week?
jam bo - Member
50Y + overhead = X
Perhaps, but we've always been told the hourly rate per child under 3 is ~ £5.
dirtyrider - Member
Whys the kid in for 50 hours a week?
He's not, but to secure a full time position at the nursery, you pay the full rate 8-6, Monday to Friday. He's actually in there mostly 10-4 Monday- Thursday and 10-13:00 on Friday.
MrSmith - Member
Who is stealing from you exactly
We were told at the start that the nursery fee was approximate to £50 per day, which allowed for the hours of 8-6. We were also told that "once your child reaches 3 years old, then you effectively get a day and a half for free from the government." If you then remove another day, that should mean paying for only 2.5 days, yes? But no, I'm actually still paying for 3.2 days, despite Djnr, only being there for 2.5.
I don't know how else one would describe it.
You know the bit where you said you had to pay full time to secure your place? Is it not possible that if you only want the place 4 days a week, not 5, that you don't receive preferential rate? After all, finding someone for the one day you don't want is probably unlikely.
You also say that they told you that you "effectively" get 1.5 days free. Or to put it another way, "you don't get 1.5 days free, but that it what it works out like, speaking to you as a parent booking a full week".
Have you asked them how it was calculated? Clearly your assumption of the calculation method is wrong, or they have made a mistake, so ask them and find out which?
As it happens our eldest went to a nursery attached to the school she now attends and that worked out how you are expecting it to. (Well it would have done but we actually only used the free hours, interest only mortgage, cheap holidays, no new bikes etc. to allow wife to provide childcare, feel your pain on that part).
Edited as my first version sounded a bit arsey, and it wasn't meant to be 🙂
Do people seriously send their kids to a nursery for that long each day, and they have breakfast and lunch there too?
Why not just send to boarding school and [i]really[/i] get rid of that awful burden you have. 🙄
At those prices you could have skipped all the toddler stuff and just bought a couple of teenagers.
Oops, should this be in the child catcher thread? 😆
robdob - MemberDo people seriously send their kids to a nursery for that long each day, and they have breakfast and lunch there too?
Why not just send to boarding school and really get rid of that awful burden you have.
out of interest what do you expect working people to do with their children during their work hours.
also it appears you don't understand the importance of social interaction for young kids.
we used to pay £200 a month for child care 3 days 9-4, that came down to £73 with the free time. had to pay full rate for summer holidays.
Robdob would you prefer working parents to just jack it in and go on benefits then? If you work you have little choice especially those who don't have other family near by. No parent would want to put their kids in nursery for long hours but it's a fact of life for many.
Loving the various types of middleclassfamilytrackworld angst on this thread.
Has anyone mentioned that that only do to benefit the kids yet?
I'd happily give up my job, claim maximum state benefits. Show my children the benefit of being a stay at home unit.
Then, when they're both at school, look for a 10 am til 2pm job (that I can cycle to) so I don't have to burden anyone with my children at any point.
In fact, some of you guys put such a good argument across, I'm going to home educate them....
What does the world look like from up there?
[self righteous opinion on]
This is how I see it. In fact how we as in me and the mrs. We saw no point in having kids then farming them out to nursery to be basically brought up by someone else. So the mrs went part time, which is totally acceptable and should be made an option by either of your employers shouldn't it?
Anyway, the money was then tight but we've battled through and now they're both at school and things are somewhere nearer normal. Although the mrs only does 9-3 now.
Kids are only little for a very short time and I do think you and your mrs are missing out on a whole lot of time with them.
[self righteous opinion off]
also it appears you don't understand the importance of social interaction for young kids.
there is social interaction and there is farming them off all day everyday
Where's the crossover?
Ask for a more detailed break down of the fees. For my nipper there is a "full-time" discount and the nursery charges an additional amount for extra-curricular activities - this is code for "can't remove free hours from".
tbh I don't see how this is an different to any other 'service' you pay for?
Decide the 'quality' you need and then look at the providers, pick the one that best suits you for the price you want to pay.
And please, lets not have any more 'it was cheaper in your day' crap.
In my 'day' our mortgage interest rate was in double-figures; the only time off I got for my kids were the days that were deducted from my annual-leave when I was in hospital when they were born; maternity pay was limited to 6 weeks full pay and 12 weeks at £50; no paternity pay at all and certainly no subsidised childcare.
Great post br you berate someone for doing what you then go on to do. Loving your work.
How many of the self righteous fathers (i presume most here are men) actually work part time and dont just farm their kids off to the mrs and actually spend all their time shirking on stw?
In my case it was a joint decision aa. The main reasoning though was I earn more money so the percentage lost in my wages would've been greater. I've had a week of being full time dad this week as the mrs has been in hospital and I'd be the first to admit I got the best deal by far!!!
All very nice for you but its extremely disrespectful not to mention rude to expect everyone to 1. be able to do what you do or 2. Agree that your parenting choices are the best and theirs are wrong.
Rude? As above I said in my opinion. Have kids do what you want with them. Mine, well I didn't want anyone else bringing them up and when a kid goes out the house for that long from such a young age that's what I believe is happening.
All in my opinion of course.
Well rather than throwing around your opinions on childcare as being the best whilst being critical of other choices why not just keep quiet? Who is to say your choices are the best for your kids or everyone elses? Why not take your choice to the logical conclusion and have you stay at home too? And to be clear our circumstances are similar to yours. Doesnt make it the best for us or anyone else, it is what it is and will all muddle thru trying our best.
Crankbrat absolutely loves nursery and has come on no end in terms of confidence and physical ability simply by mixing with and playing with a wide variety of children .
Bring them up at home with constant parental helicoptering may not produce the most stable and gragerious children . Plus that first day at school is going to be a bit of a shock to their system.
The funding of nursery places is really complex have a word with them and ask them to explain how they do the calculation.
Whysis it so hard for some stw cliche types to accept that this nursery IS in fact taking advantage to the detriment of hard working families?
It's a bit like a shop increasing prices across the board after a currency change to profiteer (I.e. not simply to account for a little extra admin work).
Comments like "you chose to have kids so deal with it"...why bother making the effort to type a comment like this? Procreation is the foundation by which humanity survives and we should all make allowances to support survival of our race!
Glasgowdan, far to sensible for this place!
The example is worse than that though. The nursery get paid twice if the 15 hours are paid by the gov and then some by the parent.
Procreation is the foundation by which humanity survives
[img] 
[/img]
A pointless graph, excellent this thread has "arrived"
See the dip in the graph? That's the work of HITLER
MrSmith - Member
See the dip in the graph? That's the work of HITLER
That's Bubonic plague, AKA The Black Death.
I think MrSmith knew that and was going for Godwins
Did you factor in that it's not funded during school holidays?
dirtyrider - Memberthere is social interaction and there is farming them off all day everyday
however, if you work everyday. not everyone can afford to work part
time or indeed get to work part time and spend time with their kids. If we worked full time we would also need after school care now as both are at school. Gone have the days when the woman stays at home and the man goes to work (as much as my wife would it to still be like)
My Mrs is a room manager at a private day care nursery. Bloody tough job imo and she's great at it. If we were to have kids, then after maternity etc we'd need to look at sending the kid to nursery full time as I work full time and Mrs B would want to return to work. As I said she's not just doing the basic job but is in charge of all the planning of an entire room and the staff that are in it....on her current take home v's current full time nursery fee's she'd be bringing home less than 200 per month! The girls that do a the basic job would be out of pocket! (There is no staff discount)
Not sure what the point of this post is, but ho hum. Fair play to anyone with kids on lower wages that are trying to make things work-rather you than me!
OP. The phrase hook line and sinker springs to mind.
Keep chasing the dream my friend, it will all be worth it in the end..
Been there op.
£1400/month ours maxed out at for two.
What I would say is, shop around.
Are there any surestart centres close by ?
For a few years you'll feel like your working for nothing, & nobody cares. 🙂
But it gets better. (& cheaper).
Chin up fella.
[quote=wrightyson ][self righteous opinion on]
This is how I see it. In fact how we as in me and the mrs. We saw no point in having kids then farming them out to nursery to be basically brought up by someone else. So the mrs went part time, which is totally acceptable and should be made an option by either of your employers shouldn't it?
So if your wife still worked part time, who looked after the kids while she was working?
I loved the 'we shut down for two weeks over Christmas but you still pay 10% fees to save your childs place' rule of hora jnrs old nursery.
We constantly had to correct and quibble. A friend was royally fleeced and shesstill waiting for money back post-her kids moving on.
Best ever - we received a letter 'fees going up this year due to improved facilities.
They had an extension built to allow more kids squeezed in.