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Well done. You have proved yourself to be a fantastic parent. Credit to your ex too for helping in what are obviously difficult circumstances. Your daughter, despite her diagnosis, is a lucky girl.
I've always thought that she should in control of her bloods 'analogue' before going 'digital'. There's quite lot going on at the mo! But I will look into it.
Yes, I've been there with Stepson Two. With everything else going on in a teenager's brain it was very, very hard for him to get the control he needed using MDI. Getting him to deal with high blood sugars last thing at night was a regular battle, which we managed to defuse over time.
Top notch parenting there. Hope all goes well for you and your daughter.
The difficult thing has been to process the disappointment, betrayal and anger that I and Helen (wife) feel, and expressing it to Daughter without alienating her. Delicate, to say the least, but hopefully the family psychotherapy sessions will provide a safe conduit for that process.
Thanks, all.
OP...the fact that your daughter recognises and has admitted to having a problem probably indicates that she also possibly recognises the impact it has had on you to a certain degree and how you feel towards her.
i agree that she should be aware of how she has upset and disappointed you both etc...i dont think now is the time to bring that up...also hearing it from you directly of how her actions have angered you or disappointed you might not be good for her especially if she is still feeling vulnerable. hopefully the counselling sessions will enable her to understand the consequences of her actions or the counsellor could gently point it out to her
these are the 3 stages you should be prioritising right now
what is the problem - kleptomania
why is it occurring - this you need to find out
how can it be stopped/resolved - only when the why has been answered
I think this will be one of the times when you look back on your life when you think 'I made the right choice, did the right thing'. Well done.
[b]@gonzy[/b] -
Yes, quite right. It's going to be quite intense, as there's a whole portfolio of issues that need to be addressed (Suicide bid and continuing feelings, diabetes, parental separation is still lurking in there, her mother's emotional manipulation etc,) but yes, therapy and counselling is the way forward. 🙂
well done, you definitely did the right thing. I'm sure there's a lot of hard work to go to sort this out. You need to deal with your disappointment, but always remember that your daughter is ill. I'm not sure that telling her how you're feeling at this stage will help.
A little update.
We opted against the cctv route, on consideration, for many of the reasons outlined here and because we just didn't really want to live in that sort of a home. However the suspicion has been slowly gnawing at us, compounded when I think I caught my daughter trying to shoplift on a family outing. A few other things have been noticed as absent (one of my wife's dresses, etc.)
I've also, in the interim, been around every single cash converter type pawn shop, market trader, jewellers etc. in the region with details of the jewellery that was missing, trying to make it too hot to touch. Nothing came of that.
So, day before yesterday during a conversation with Ex/daughter's mother, i asked if she seemed to be being a bit 'flash with the cash', possibly beyond her means. Yes, she has. I told Ex about the missing items, whereby she said she would look for them in daughter's room.
I took daughter out to talk about the counselling that I had already booked regarding some of her other issues, and received a photo text from Ex saying "is this the box?".
Yes.
Dog walk complete I take her to a cafe, and calmly confront her with the evidence.
Flat denial.
"Really? Your mother has just found this in your room. It's got the jewellers address on the inside of the box."
Denial.
Skip a bit, she confesses.
Subsequent conversation, she admits that she doesn't know why she took them, despite my alerting her to the financial and sentimental value, and having given her opportunities to return the jewellery, with subtle hints, like "I hope they'll just turn up, we've probably just misplaced them."
She admitted to being a kleptomaniac, and that she wanted to return them but couldn't. She revealed that she is having suicidal thoughts again, and that she just doesn't want to be here. Just wanted everything to go back to how it was before 2012 (T1 diabetes diagnosis).
After suitable reassurances and that despite the proof of the crime, we still loved her, wanted her in our home (terms and conditions apply) and would do everything that we could to support her, including paying for private counselling, I drove her to her other home, whereby she retrieved and returned the earrings.
Since then, I've discussed the situation with at least two child counsellors and arranged family psychotherapeutic counselling, informed her school of events, informed her doctor and am due to discuss reengaging Cams (Child mental heath team) and whether she ought to be sectioned. I have informed the insurance company and repaid the monies, and notified key family members. Obviously I have discussed this with my wife and my ex, although the ex is reluctant for daughter to engage in any counselling that involves my wife and I.
I've not pressed charges or notified the police . . . yet.
Any thoughts?
Cheers, M
You are a ****ing superb father.
My thoughts:
She has self-diagnosed as a Kleptomaniac. Hide your valuables in the same way you'd hide the booze if an alcoholic came round.
CAMHS is very, very underfunded at the moment. You may have to put your hand in your pocket if you want timely, effective help for your daughter.
Good luck. You're doing all the right things IMO.
Sounds like you handled a difficult situation very well. I held back from commenting on this thread before as frankly I had nothing that I thought would be helpful.
Wow, nice bloke!
I'd agree with not pressing charges, a criminal record at this early stage wouldn't be a wise thing to carry for the rest of her life, certainly when she's starting out.. after that, she's left, well it's her choice which way she goes..
As for not rigging the CCTV, well done. It wasn't needed and you knew that.
Hope all goes well over the next 6months, now is the time to put a [i]lot[/i] of effort rebuilding trust.. you are in a great place to start.
I wish my parenting was as thoughtful and balanced as yours.
Best wishes for your daughter.
Great Dad
Great to hear how this is playing out. Well done
I'd agree with not pressing charges
It's a bit bizarre that any parent would entertain the idea even, given the story here. Taking that route would achieve nothing and almost certainly drive a massive wedge between the family. The only rationale for pressing charges would be if you wanted or expected never to see her again.
Good work fella, well played.
"It's a bit bizarre that any parent would entertain the idea even, given the story here."
My Great-Great Grandfather shopped his son over earings stolen from him by his son in the mid C19th. The son got 12 months hard labour.
History hasn't recorded the detail so I'm assuming both did what they thought was best at the time 'cos my ancestors can do no wrong AFAIC.
@bodgy - Been type1 for 44 years now. Boy am I starting to pay the price of sometimes less than stellar control. I feel for her. I know how it made me feel amongst my peers as a teenager. I don't want to bang on but she has to get a handle on this or it will come back to bite her on the bum in later years. I now have end stage kidney failure and live at the hospital 3 afternoons a week for around 5 hours on dialysis. All the best to her & yourself.
Brilliant OP, really happy you got them back and you seem to have handled things very very well.
Okay, all; Question for the hive-mind:
As per this thread, we know that Daughter
- is a compulsive liar
- a self confessed kleptomaniac
- attempted suicide a couple of months ago
- is not engaging with CAMHS (missed two appointments as it turns out, and is lying about that to her mother)
- is refusing to attend/engage with the counselling that I have arranged privately
and given that we have serious trust issues within my household, should I deny her access to my home until she has shown a willingness to engage with the counselling / CAMHS? I am aware that it is giving out a very mixed message to say that 'we want to help, support and nurture her . . . but terms and conditions apply'.
Confused about this. Any thoughts?
Cheers all, M.
Brilliant dad +1.
I was a shit for a while when young ( after a divorce too) I stole money & shoplifted .
I wish you had been there to deal with me.
Bravo.
should I deny her access to my home until she has shown a willingness to engage with the counselling / CAMHS?
Deffo not, she's your daughter, she should be welcome in your home. Might be politically difficult with the new wife though.
Might be politically difficult with the new wife though.
Thanks, I get it, but can I just put something straight?
'New Wife' is my most trusted companion and soul-mate, who has been nothing but the the most exemplary step-mother that I could imagine; kind, considered, emotionally warm and generous, supportive, engaging, and providing. Consistently considered during this trauma, prepared to put her own emotional grievances aside, for the greater good.
I obviously respect that there are issues regarding 'role', but 'I', 'we' and 'she' want the best outcome for my daughter, and our familial relationships. Including the relationship between my Daughter and her half-brother.
Just saying.
Cheers, M.
'New Wife' is my most trusted companion and soul-mate, who has been nothing but the the most exemplary step-mother that I could imagine; kind, considered, emotionally warm and generous, supportive, engaging, and providing. Consistently considered during this trauma, prepared to put her own emotional grievances aside, for the greater good.I obviously respect that there are issues regarding 'role', but 'I', 'we' and 'she' want the best outcome for my daughter, and our familial relationships. Including the relationship between my Daughter and her half-brother.
Great!
[b]@senor j[/b] - Yup, I was a complete [git], parents separated and I went off the rails. What goes around comes around . . . or can we learn?
As long we 'think' . . . we become better. Not necessarily less tortured, but better, as a person, through conscientious consideration. I guess that's the Angst of existence?
[b]@ outofbreath[/b]
🙂
Final update.
Not as happy an outcome as I would wish. She has resumed her counselling with CAMHS - which I am glad about - and I am in touch with them to monitor her attendance.
She has however told me to desist from any contact with her (phone, text, everything) citing that she has to work this out on her own.
Leaves me feeling sad; I don't think she knows the damage that she has done. My wife and I are left feeling like the sanctity of our home and family life has been violated, without any comeback or consequence for Daughter. Not even a conversation.
I very much doubt that she feels any remorse, let alone any inclination to attempt to reconcile the situation.
I've pretty much done everything in my power to address her actions and the consequences, so that's it really. Not a lot left to do but withdraw and look after the concerns of my wife and 4 yr old boy.
But I hope she comes to terms with herself and wants to be a part of our family again. At some point.
Thanks for all the advice.
Heart broken for you. Losing contact with my children is something that fills me with dread. Fingers crossed that you will get a better result in the longer term.
Bodgy, the main thing is she is taking control of things. your baby girl is growing up and taking this on for herself.
it will leave you feeling helpless and out of control but as long as you monitor the attendance and keep reminding yourself that you have done and are doing the right thing there is not much else you can do now other than be there whenever she needs you.
you don't have to withdraw, you just focus on those around you for a while but keep one eye on your girl. it will mean you can relax about the home security issues, it will mean you can maybe build those bridges with your ex while things are a little calmer.
in time your daughter will sort herself out and know that she is welcome and able to come back to you. it may be a month or it may be years but she will always be your daughter and your baby.
good luck with whatever comes next, and remember if you feel the need to vent there is always a helping hand here for you
in time your daughter will sort herself out and know that she is welcome and able to come back to you. it may be a month or it may be years but she will always be your daughter and your baby.
all good points there from 4130 but this ^^ is particularly spot on IMO.
Being a teenager is crap and intense and emotional and she may well reconsider in a day or a month or a year. But as long as she knows the door is open (figuratively!) for if/when she wants to reconnect, that's really important.
Been interesting reading this Bodgy.
My daughter just turned 7 at the weekend and was diagnosed Type 1 2 years ago, we already see her mood swing terribly when she has growth spurts and her hormones are all over the place (insulin being a hormone for those that don't about T1), i often ask myself what her teenage years are going to be like and her hormones really are raging.
I think you've handled it brilliantly mate.
I would second some comments above though about looking at an insulin pump, it gives far greater control than injections, plus the handset gives a record of what your blood glucose/ insulin given etc has been, you can plug the handset in to laptop too for full record of what your readings have been over the last months.
The main thing though is that the insulin pump allows different base settings for different times of the day. So on injections, you'll have the slow acting Levemir twice a day as a "base" before the fast acting insulin when you eat. With the insulin pump there is only one type of insulin and it can give her different "base" amounts for different times.
Plus if you eat a food such as a pizza, where there is a lot of carbs, but the carb being absorbed is slowed down by the high fat and protein content, instead of giving yourself a single injection for all the grams of carbs you are having in the pizza in one go, you can "stretch" the dose, so it gives the dose to her over a period of time you set (not the best at explaining things sorry)
But overall, the insulin pump allows far greater control than injections. My daughter has one called an Omnipod, which is about the size of one half of the plastic things from a Kinder Egg on her. It also means that she only has to fit a new pump every 3 days instead of injecting herself 8-10 times a day and the issues multiple injection sites can cause.
Thanks [b]scud[/b], I'll look into those - sounds like it might be a good thing for her.
And cheers, [b]doris, Coyote & 4130s0ul[/b].
The doors [i]are[/i] open. [i]There might have to be a bit of negotiating with the bouncer,[/i] but definitely open.
Apologies for re-opening an old wound / thread.
Well, literally five months later she texts me, saying that I "should grow up". That "it wouldn't hurt you to act like an adult for once in your life". "It's not my fault you are acting like a spastic." "You can take your life and piss off."
>massive sigh<
TBH, (it's a hard thing to say of one's child) she has stifled the love that I had for her. I don't love her or want her in my home or heart any more.
Slightly in bits and spinning. Slightly.
As a representative of the STW night shift..... thought I'd chime in with my 2c in case you are still awake
Really, really sorry to hear about this latest development.
HOWEVER, it sounded like you were being kept at arms-length anyway? So surely this is more in indication of the particular stage of the process that she's going through - rather than anything you've done?
If it is, it might need you to just let it play-out. She will (in time) see that you are/were acting in her best interests..... I guess the only question is how long that takes.
IMO, communication with your Ex is absolutely critical here - she (your ex) will hopefully recognize that a healthy relationship with you is in her best interest - and (even if she's not up-for actively trying to soften your daughter's view of you) she might see that she should not be encouraging her to distance herself further.
It 'could' be that she cut you off as her way of punishing you, with the expectation that you would try and get back in contact with her and therefore she would be in a position of power.
That you have agreed to her wishes and stayed out of contact has ruined her plan and she's cracked and texted you to let out her frustration and also initiate contact so you reply.
If this is completely out of the blue contact, could it be an oblique cry for help? In that she cannot accept your help openly, but by trying to engage with you (even if by way of abuse) she is trying to reestablish the parent/child relationship again?
If it were me I'd not respond, however hard that felt to do. Replying to abuse and trying to appease her just reinforces her behaviour.
Also, 'rewarding' her abuse by engaging with it just sets the tone for any future communication and relationship you might have.
Literally ignore her until she approaches you in a way that's not abusive.
"If this is completely out of the blue contact, could it be an oblique cry for help? In that she cannot accept your help openly, but by trying to engage with you (even if by way of abuse) she is trying to reestablish the parent/child relationship again?"
Gotta be this. She wants contact with her Dad. Not sure how best to respond, mind you.
Where's a child psychologist when you need one!
Doesn't sound like a particularly rational or thought out communication so possibly sent whilst in some emotional turmoil or similar?
As a divorced parent, the comms between the parents is key and both ought to be advocating the involvement of the other as vital assuming all is fairly normal. This is where IME a lot of separated parents fail to put the child's interests first over their own desire to punish their ex or use influence/access as a weapon.
It's almost impossible for one parent to be significantly stricter than the other without it being detrimental to their relationship or reducing the time they spend with their kids especially as they get older and the other parent fails to support the stricter one.
You seem to have faced into the issues so well done you, tough love is really hard to give, I've failed on occasions looking back, and your ex should recognise your strength in this regard and support you.
I really hope she matures enough to see how you tried to do the best for her whilst so hard for you but know that is what you have done. Parenting is hard sometimes, separate houses really adds to some aspects of that. Good luck.
She wants you back in her life but she doesn't want to lose face. You could ignore her or you could try something like:
"If you want to meetI am free on... just text and we can arrange a meeting"
I agree with above that you don't want to reward this bad behaviour (the text) but she is clearly asking for attention/contact. Let her know that if she goes about it the right way then you'll be there for her.
bodgy,
As others have said , seems like a emotional outburst (via text) rather than any considered communication, might also be a way of getting you to respond in the hope of getting back to some communication as she's backed herself into a corner and doesn't know how to get out of it? Hand in there , you seem to be doing the right things and I'm sure, as things settle and she matures she'll want to be part of the family (and without the previous stress and heartache) and all will be well. Keep us in touch as forums are a good form of counselling 🙂
**** her, She's made her bed and she can lay in it. Our son was a pleasure up to the age of 7. He's 33 now. Then his sister was born and by the age of 9 he was a shit of the highest order. I wont go into the saga of crap that he bought into our lives, suffice to say that I doubt that I know half of it. my wife shielded me from a lot of his behaviour.
When he was 14 he placed himself in care. he had a friend in care who egged him on. He never set foot in the house again.
That day we dad social services round for a short visit. I kept them on the doorstep and they soon cleared off. Mrs Z had endless meetings with the SS and she arrive when there'd be 10 or 12 of them in a meeting with her. She'd come home in tears as they simply wouldn't accept our side of the story. I suggested that she stopped going to the meetings, which she did.
I did throw one of them out of the house early on as she was insistent that no child would make up his story.
Endless lies, twisting events around to look as though he was constantly the victim of hatred. Eventually the truth came out, the sheer volume of bullshit was what undid his lies. Together with the total lack of evidence from doctors, teachers neighbours etc. All of whom he'd involved.
Within days of him leaving the atmosphere at home was greatly improved. My wife was happier as was our daughter.
After 2-3 years the SS asked for him to be allowed back home. I asked them what had changed? They couldn't say. I said that I wasn't prepared to have him back unless the issues had been resolved. They never bothered to reply.
I met him at the age of 18 to drive him to Catterick as he'd joined the army. We never spoke throughout the long drive. He'd built bridges with his mum, since torn down of course, but they were getting on well.
We went back to see his passing out parade. Mrs Z watched it. His sister and I went to Seaton Carew for the afternoon. I'm not sure what would have been worse. 😀
I can honestly say that I seldom think about him and have no desire to restore an relationship with him. He's had no contact with his mother or sister for well over 10 years.
Just because someone is family doesn't mean that their crap has to be tolerated. Sometimes you're just better off giving up.
Wow. [b]Thanks all.[/b] Plenty of food for thought here.
My gut instinct is along the lines of [b]wwaswas[/b]'s comments - not to engage until she has a genuinely earnest and conciliatory approach.
And, [b]zanelad[/b] - sorry to hear that mate; sounds like an utterly awful situation. But I do know the feeling of the home being happier for their absence. [i]"**** her, She's made her bed and she can lay in it."[/i] Yes. That. Exactly.
[b]deepreddave[/b] - kind words, thank you.
Best of luck bodgy, however it turns out.
I just can't imagine what it would be like if our boys turned out to do something like this.
My gut instinct is along the lines of wwaswas's comments - not to engage until she has a genuinely earnest and conciliatory approach.
If it feels right .... or leave a door a little ajar as some others said with "I'm here if you ever need me"... perhaps passed by her mother?
TBH.. sounds like a pissed off text [u]she might well already regret[/u] and be too stubborn to admit so perhaps you need to be the adult [b]for her as well[/b]
Have you asked why you/new missus not her Mum???
I've no idea of how/why you split but it does sound like she is blaming you and your wife ...
So was the text after five months of silence? Or was there continued contact? Or something that started the exchange?
Bodgy - could it simply be an emotional outburst due to frustration building up after 5 months?
its funny that when people lash out in this way its those who are closest to them who bear the brunt of their outbursts?
as said above has this been after a 5 month silence or have you been in contact with her during this time?
i suppose the only response i would give to that is "when you're ready to talk in a civilised manner i will be ready to listen to you and do whatever i can to help you"
if she's decided that this is something she needs to do for herself then let her...just be there to catch her when she falls as any parent would do...but again you need to balance this out with trying to stay at a reasonable distance to be able to let then deal with their demons on their own
Zanelad - thats a really bad situation with your son....must have been heart breaking for you to come to that decision
If it was me, id get back to her with something along the lines of "sorry we're not seeing eye to eye on this right now but i'm here for you if you ever want to talk or visit".
she's hitting out, either as a defensive mechanism for being caught out and trying to divert the attention or she's in pain and wants others to feel it too. You don't just hit out at someone if they mean nothing to you, she'd simply ignore you.
if things aren't going well, keep in touch with her, even if it's just xmas and b'day cards and a little note every now and again. When she gets older she'll appreciate that you still love her and want to be a part of her life. it leaves the door open for rebuilding things when she's come to terms/accepted the situation.
I say this as someone who fell out with a parent for a number of years and didn't speak to them. Looking back, it was terrible and i'm glad we sorted our differences out and have a great relationship again.
Just remember that feeling when you brought her into the world and how you would always protect her from anything, and be there for when ever she needed you....this is one of those times...be strong, be dad.
Good luck.
+1 for being the adult.
Probably worth checking in with your ex to let her know you've had a tricky message from your daughter and to see what the lay of the land is before you respond.
My gut feel is that something else has gone down and you're getting the backlash from this.
From skimming the thread, I'd ignore this latest development.
FWICS you've been nothing less than a perfect parent. It might take her some time to grow up and come round to realise you only have her best interests at heart.
At this point the ball seems to be in her court - she needs to sort herself out and get back to you. Doesn't mean you can't send a quarterly text asking if she'd like to go out for lunch / coffee etc, but I wouldn't go any more regular than that ...
A couple of answers to points that have been raised:
There was a little lead in to this over the past week; back in November (before the truth of her actions had come to light) I had bought her a bike, a second hand £100 job that I was doing up for a Christmas present. Then it all kicked off, and it has been sat in the garage since. Over the past 10 days I had received a few texts from Daughter and [i]her mother[/i] to the effect of "I want to get my/her bike - I'll come round at such-and-such hour to collect it". I ignored the texts, as I simply could not believe the audacity of both Daughter and her mother to brazenly broach the bike as first contact since her thieving was irrefutably revealed and the text telling me not to contact her (as has been chronicled here).
It didn't feel right to just not respond, so I replied to them both, pointing out (in a neutral tone) that Daughter [i]had up to that point made no attempt to recognise the seriousness of her actions and situation that she had created, nor had she made any attempt to re-engage, rebuild trust or even shown any sign of contrition. And on that basis I wasn't about to give her a bike that was intended to be a gift just because she was demanding it.[/i] (pretty much verbatim)
Then the return message was as above.
Honestly, Ex is totally relishing this situation. On many levels she has 'won'. And by default that means I have 'lost'. Daughter is complicit in this and reinforced by her mothers constant drip feed of toxicity.
So. F*** 'em.
I'm not interested in their bitter game.
I really think that I'm going to step away from Daughter, now. She knows that I'm here in the event she wants to start bridge building.
Incidentally, it was a rather tasty sparkly dark purple Dawes Discovery hybrid, that was nearly immaculate and had been sat in a garage since the mid 90's. Thumbs, cantilever brakes, long stem; I changed the tyres and tubes, pads and stuck some wider mudguards on and it's lovely. Doomed to be unridden and unloved for a while longer, it seems. I'll stick it on eBay, probably. Shame really - would have been an ace bike.
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Ah, that does explain the response from her then. In that light her texts read like a stropy teenager.