[Closed] Child stealing from home and covert CCTV / spy gadgets - any tips?

Have you asked her if she has taken the missing items?

Yes. On several occasions, and she absolutely flatly denies it to my face. I don't want to have to resort to searching her bags every time she leaves the house.

She has a bit of a track record of 'borrowing' without asking (petty stuff - clothing, stationery, make up from my wife) but things have become more serious with the disappearance of some expensive (£1500+) earrings that my wife inherited from her late Grandmother.

She doesn't live with you? How old is she?

I'm not convinced that surveillance is the way to go - I'd be wanting to maintain a relationship with her rather than risk cutting off all contact, especially if there are some other underlying issues which are triggering the thefts.

Worth chatting through with her to see what the problem is?

I know of a similar situation that ended up with the son committing suicide. He was stealing to pay for a drug habit.

See if you can get to the bottom of it.

Lives with us part time, since her mother and I separated 6 years ago I've worked really hard to maintain constancy in her life and include her in the household. It [i]is[/i] delicate, as I don't want to push her away or make her feel that there's no trust, but similarly, I can't have her taking advantage and just removing stuff from my house.

In order to challenge her I feel I need something solid to base any accusation on. ?

I'm thinking how "we've caught you on the camera we planted to catch you thieving" is going to play out to a teenage daughter.

As the owner of one (daughter, not camera) I'm going to go with a diplomatic, and probably massively understated 'not very well'

You could be about to make a bad situation a lot worse.

I don't know what the answer is, but I doubt surveillance will do anything but inflame the situation.

Hope you get it sorted. I don't envy you

@eskay - thank you - I don't think drugs are involved, but it might be a clothing / fashion habit that she is serving. Taking / 'borrowing' stuff is one issue, taking to re-sell is stealing. I have reported it to the police and insurers, and have gently talked around the issue, but as i say, she just flatly denies any wrong-doing.

There are lots of video cameras on ebay from China mostly which are tiny. Although, I think it would be a last resort to have to use them

Agree with a lot of what has been seen above.

There must be something seriously wrong if she is the one stealing stuff. I am not too sure 'proving' it is her will resolve the issues.

I am at a loss to where you can turn to. Daft as it sounds, maybe give childline a call, they maybe able to point you in the right direction? They will have certainly dealt with similar stuff in the past.

Edit: reading your last post it sounds like you need some form of mediation between yourself and daughter as it sounds like trust has completely broken down on both sides.

@binners - Thanks, and yes, agreed. 'not well' indeed. That's kind of why I posted on STW, to get some different perspectives. 🙂

@ FunkyDunc. That's not a bad suggestion, actually. cheers!

I don't want to ..... make her feel that there's no trust

What does her mum say about it? Is it worth having a tactful conversation with your former partner (without necessarily mentioning the potential thievery) to see how things are at that end?

What does her mum say about it?

I would hope OP has already been having these discussions, for the sake of the child...

Honeypot. Leave something lying around that might be attractive, see if it walks. Couple of tenners in a jacket pocket over the back of a chair or something.

He was stealing to pay for a drug habit.

Hate to say it, but that was my thought also. Could just be an act of petty teenage rebellion, but I'd expect that to be the odd missing fiver and not a £1500 ring.

Pretty sad position to be in, good luck.

@scotroutes - Yes, It's a paradoxical dilemma, but the fact is that the trust is already damaged.

@martinhutch - I have tried ( and will retry) chatting to her mum, however the last conversation about this issue resulted in my ex saying "why should I care? That bitch stole from me" (meaning my wife) and slamming the phone down. but, try again I must. and as you say, not mentioning the thievery . . .

so you install covert cctv and catch her in a state of undress, or in a compromising position or record a phone call accidently, somethings are best never recorded , if you think shes stealing ban her from the house, and await the fireworks, or find out why she is stealing, compulsive, to get her own back on you, to be petty minded, or to pay for drugs or a debt.

I have reported it to the police and insurers

How do you report that? I mean, things mysteriously going "missing" from the home, there's not a lot of possibilities here. I'd have thought the police would want to interview the prime (only?) suspect, meaning that your concern that she thinks you don't trust her is going to be amplified somewhat.

Cougar - yes, thought of that and have left a couple of baits. Also tried to allow her 'wiggle room' to return the jewellery. she may not have realised it's true value. I've also contacted most of the local jewellers to see if the earrings have been offered up for sale - nothing back on that one.

No one mentioned changing the locks ?

Dead simple, get her to prove she hasn't taken the stuff by confronting her.

Quite simple, it's called communication.

I have tried ( and will retry) chatting to her mum, however the last conversation about this issue resulted in my ex saying "why should I care? That bitch stole from me" (meaning my wife) and slamming the phone down.

Yep, not easy, but try again, gently. Somehow being united working in the interests of your kid will make your job(s) much, much easier.

If she's of school age, how about both of you agreeing to pop into school together and chat to her tutor about how she's getting on and ask some questions about her peer group and friends.

Cougar - Insurers need a police report number to pay out, and without any evidence the police cannot issue a crime number, just a 'missing property' report. The insurers were very good, paying out within a couple of days. That's not the issue; nobody involved wanted the money, we'd rather they hadn't gone missing in the first place, and in general that this wasn't the situation.

>sigh<

@ bikebouy - I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a family home with locked doors. And how could she prove that she hadn't done something? But communication, yes, I am trying, but it is delicate.

resulted in my ex saying "why should I care? That bitch stole from me" (meaning my wife)

Two thoughts went through my mind, either drugs, or some involvement from the ex wife... ie either the ex having a habit or just being vindictive, and using the daughter.

If you ex will not listen to you, you need to write a letter/email, outlining concerns about your daughter, not accusing her of stealing, just concerns about her well being, and how you and ex can try and help your daughter.

Very complicated position and no easy answers. Just not sure the Police is the right answer...

No pudding?

Gotcha. That's pretty impressive actually, I'd imagine many insurers might be a little sceptical at the sudden "loss" of small high-value items.

the last conversation about this issue resulted in my ex saying "why should I care? That bitch stole from me" (meaning my wife) and slamming the phone down.

I wonder idly whether that's motive; has the ex put her up to it as some sort of revenge tactic?

I've also contacted most of the local jewellers to see if the earrings have been offered up for sale

Ebay?

TBH, if I were a teenage petty thief, I think I'd be fencing the goods in places like Cash Converters or market stalls rather than proper jewellery stores.

bodgy - Member
She has a bit of a track record of 'borrowing' without asking (petty stuff - clothing, stationery, make up from my wife) but things have become more serious with the disappearance of some expensive (£1500+) earrings that my wife inherited from her late Grandmother.

I'm sorry to hear that bodgy, it must be really tough and I have nothing else to offer other than I don't think camera surveillance is the answer.

Proving she has stolen it with CCTV would allow you to KNOW that she has stolen things - but sounds like you do already...

Do you want to prove to yourself she is stealing?

Or prove it to her?

Very very difficult. I'd be tempted to do the video thing, but then if it confirms things - [i]tell [/i]her you know - and [i]only [/i]talk about the video evidence if she continued to deny it, despite you having told her first that you do love her, whatever she has done, and you'd rather she was honest about it.

Very very difficult.

@funkyDunc

just being vindictive, and using the daughter.

Definitely this. without any qualms.

The letter is good advice. Thanks. The police aren't involved as a crime, just notified of missing property.

bikebouy - Member

No one mentioned changing the locks ?

Dead simple, get her to prove she hasn't taken the stuff by confronting her.

Quite simple, it's called communication.

You see, you can just tell that you've got years of conflict resolution as a UN peace negotiator under your belt there, boutros boutros ghali?

I can't foresee any difficulties whatsoever in taking that approach with a teenage girl. There you go bodgy. You've got your solution right there

Get a small safe and lock anything valuable away, if there's nothing to steal then it won't be an issue.

It's a shame that you'd have to do this but it would take away any stress from the relationship, rather than have the confrontation and the resulting fallout.

Don't get a camera to spy on a teenage girl, if that goes pear shaped then you could be in all sorts of trouble!

I have tried ( and will retry) chatting to her mum, however the last conversation about this issue resulted in my ex saying "why should I care? That bitch stole from me" (meaning my wife) and slamming the phone down. but, try again I must. and as you say, not mentioning the thievery . . .

Cod psychology here.....is this what the girl is maybe doing? Redressing the balance? (Consciously or subconsciously).

TBH, covert stuff will probably help you lose her, though if she's stealing from others then it could be what helps to get it stopped before it becomes a criminal thing.It would be good to know in advance if there's a wider problem- maybe speak to the school and see what they say? There must be a guidance teacher.

Get a small safe and lock anything valuable away, if there's nothing to steal then it won't be an issue

....unless that then compels her to steal from somewhere else that might get her into real trouble.

Cougar - yes, thanks, I'll give it a look.

@Stoatsbrother - Thank you. That is well considered advice. Thanks.

Sure it's not the new wife?

Rachel

Sure it's not [s]the new wife[/s] an elaborate ruse to pawn the wifes earrings and buy a new bike?

FTFY

@allthegear - It's not my wife; she has fought long and hard to maintain the inclusivity of our household and our relationship with both my girls. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by feigning or creating this situation. everybody is suffering.

You say you've asked local jewellers, I assume you've been around the local pawn brokers as well?

Also, covert CCTV surveillance in the bedroom could have additional issues (or benefits I guess) with the new wife 🙂

I don't have kids, but Shirley confrontation is the only clear way of either getting the kid to fess up or deny then you can move on with a clear knowledge base.

The subdifuge of setting cameras up is simply setting yourself up for mistrusting your daughter, and then finger wag proving it, or not as the case maybe.

Explaining to her that stuffs gone missing, make it clear she's under suspicion and let her come clean either way..

Clear communication, no subdifuge, no back handed behind the scenes traps.

@ cougar - The insurers offered £1500 (Full replacement cost) in vouchers that can be redeemed at accredited jewellers or £900 ish in cash (Purchase price). But yes they were quick. We'll pay for it in higher premiums eventually, i guess.

I don't have kids, but Shirley confrontation is the only clear way of either getting the kid to fess up or deny then you can move on with a clear knowledge base.

Did you read the thread, including whether he's already done this?

Yes. On several occasions, and she absolutely flatly denies it to my face. I don't want to have to resort to searching her bags every time she leaves the house.

bikebouy - Member

I don't have kids, ....

No shit? I'd never have guessed 😆

I agree with you about the cameras, but any situation like this, with a hormonal teenage girl, needs to be handled with a degree of sensitivity that a UN negotiator in the Middle East would be familar with. And similarly explosive consequences if it isn't

@bikebouy, I take your point. Cheers.

@doosuk - I'll try pawn brokers, but, fact is we're not out of pocket (aside from the sentimental value) - it's the wider trust and engagement issues that are the difficult.

@doosuk - and if I want to watch porn, i'll get some decent stuff, thanks! lol 😐

I'll try pawn brokers, but, fact is we're not out of pocket (aside from the sentimental value) - it's the wider trust and engagement issues that are the difficult.

"Hi, do you remember who brought this in?"

It may be that as your ex still feels spurned or hurt by the break up and that your daughter lives part time with her, that your daughter is hearing / living with the negativity towards your wife / new family. that along with the fact that she may feel as though you/ your new wife is to blame for breaking up the original family unit and she is therefore lashing out at the parties she feels are responsible.

I would agree with a safe to keep items secure but do not mention it to your daughter.

hopefully over time and through experience she will come to understand the new dynamic and come to terms with it. though obviously if your ex is still bitter about it, it won't make things easy.

I hope whatever path you choose, everything works out for you

@doosuk - I'll try pawn brokers, but, fact is we're not out of pocket (aside from the sentimental value)

My point was that if a teenager has taken them, the only place they're likely to get shot is at a pawn brokers (unless they know some dodgy people through school/college).

Just sounded like you're new wife would prefer the ear rings back to the money in the pocket.

@doosuk, yes, that is true, but we're not holding out [i]too much[/i] hope for that

@4130s0ul - Yes, and thank you - I've considered exactly that and there are probably a large amount of those issues at play, despite our best efforts at inclusivity. Thanks for a highly perceptive and gentle response. 🙂

@PerchPanther - Dammit! I wish I'd thought of that!

Definately try the pawn brokers. I'd imagine if they were pawned then ID would have been taken at the time?

Very difficult situation... I think you absolutely need to know what's happening, just now you're 99% convinced your daughter is stealing but what if she's not? without evidence you;ll forever think she was. I'd get CCTV put in a few rooms where valuables are kept, not her bedroom, bathroom or kitchen etc. Only rooms where cash and jewellery are kept. That way you can say that you didn't suspect her of stealing but you thought it might have been a neighbour/tradesman etc etc

If you do catch her in the act, approach her about it in a calm manner and not in an accusatory/aggressive manner (doesn't sound like you will) and try to discuss why she's doing it. It could be out of spite, she may be in trouble and need money or maybe she has problems that she needs professional help with. I'm guessing she'll get defensive and fly off the handle, put things back on you, then run out the house for some space...keep calm, let her cool off after a few hours/days and gently broach the subject again until she will talk about it. Don't let it turn into an argument and let her talk to you about it when she's ready.

By getting to this stage, you'll know for sure and you can start to rebuild the relationship based on a little honesty hopefully.

Good luck!

@cougar
@yorkshire99

Yup, thank you, pawn brokers & market stalls now a top priority.

@ PaulGillespie - Fantastic advice. Thank you very much for taking the time to respond, Paul! I think that taking route that was my gut inclination.

N.B. Without wanting to be too 'sucky'; I'm always amazed at the breadth of knowledge and kindness of spirit that is exhibited on this forum! Cheers all!

The earings sound like an outlier and the stuff going missing is low value, and much of it could just be lost.

Lipstick theft sounds much more like "helping yourself to hotel towels" level of criminality.

So I'd go with the earlier suggestion. Lock high value portable stuff away and forget it.

She's had a lot of sh1t in her life, don't give her more.

If you go down the surveillance route you don't need to tell her you know and why.

Get a time lapse camera instead, it looks less intrusive and you can use it for sunrises and plants' growing and all sorts of other legit reasons. Then you can just leave it on a shelf near some valuables, either it will be a deterrent or you can actually use it. The problem is that once you have proof, you will one day state it, out of pure frustration if nothing else

Build a new patio and see if the problem stops?

Please, please don't put your teenage daughter under any form of CCTV surveillance.

I fear that if you do that, and she finds out, then regardless of the outcome of your 'investigation' it will pail into insignificance next to the fall out from that.

You could genuinely do irreparable damage to your relationship. Put yourself in her shoes. Would you trust anyone again who'd done that? Or would you feel the trust was completely gone, and bitter and resentful at the invasion of your privacy?

Think about it.....

you could start stealing her stuff...

@outofbreath - Yes, you're right about the 'hotel towels' scenario, and whilst it is frustrating, it's not the end of the world.

And yes, she has had plenty to deal with at her tender age in addition to the familial separation (T1 diabetes, recent split from her boyfriend, change of school owing to boyfriend split, etc.) it's difficult to forgive and forget when the suspicion/distrust is gnawing away in the background. I / we (my wife and I) try our utmost to provide a warm, stable and supportive home, loving family life and sanctuary from the often emotionally manipulative environment which she inhabits when she is with her mother/my ex. Again, that is why the situation is delicate, and I have sought the wider perspective and wisdom of the good folk on STW.

There's a lot going on, and the thievery, as pointed out by several contributors here, might just be a manifestation of her situation and something that she can control?

@binners - oh, believe you me, i've been thinking about very little else. Wise words, though; the trust might be broken one way, and she already knows it to an extent. What would be the gain of breaking the trust both ways? I hear you, I hear you.

Did I read that right - you let her change schools because she split up with her boyfriend ?? Wow.

@chaliemungus - Steal her stuff? hadn't thought of that! I'm not sure it's a solution, but it might be satisfying. 😯

@Ming_The_Merciless - That's quite dark . . . 😯

@hels - No, you didn't read that right - She changed schools as she was starting sixth form, and her existing school does not have a very good reputation for A level results, so she has joined the other local larger sixth form, which offers a wider range of A's and a a very many of her closest friends attend there. It happened to coincide with her boyfriend dumping her after two years on the first day of term. Had they not split she probs would have stayed, but as it is, academically and socially it's a far richer environment.

It wasn't an unconsidered, nor undiscussed, choice.

Sounds like she has some serious crap going on, or at least it might feel like everything is stuffed up from her perspective. If you slam the door on your relationship through having some massive blow-up over surveillance and trust you might just seriously regret it down the line.

it's difficult to forgive and forget when the suspicion/distrust is gnawing away in the background

Don't worry about forgiving her at the moment, just don't do anything you won't be able to forgive yourself for at a later date.

Its not easy this parenting lark, is it? The best of luck with resolving it. Its a really really difficult situation

it may just be a blip though.

We could all do with remembering what it was like to be that age. Its stressful, and confusing. You're trying to find out who you are, and pushing the boundries a bit. I know me and my mates ended up getting up to stuff we shouldn't. Bunking off school, Shoplifting, drinking, graffiti (the big stuff, not scrawling on bus seats). Some (not me) went further and were robbing cars, and dealing drugs, n stuff.

Its part of growing up. Try not to get too wrapped up in it. I know its not easy. It passes

Our kid was always in trouble. She was a bloody nightmare. She's now on the board of a FTSE 100 company

Best of luck fella!

Thanks Martin. Truly good advice. Cheers mate.

@binners - Cheers, buddy! And, no it's not straight forward at any point.

"boutros boutros ghali"

😆

[img] [/img]

Sorry. Unhelpful.

Re covert video surveillance: Use such a tactic, and your daughter may never trust you again. Plus you'll open yourself up to all sorts of potential nastiness if she decided to turn that against you for any reason. Would you be prepared to face certain allegations, if you had a major falling out and she decided to punish you? Teenagers can be extremely vicious and psychopathic, when vengeful. And it could cause scars that may never heal.

I'd be thinking about leaving a note in a place she'd be likely to look if she were stealing from you; something like 'sorry, nothing for you to steal here, would be nice if you replaced those family heirlooms' or whatever. She'd then know you were onto her, if she were stealing, and if she brought it up, she'd be admitting her 'crimes'. Might make her rethink her actions a bit.

I dunno. Just an idea. Don't ****ing put covert video cameras up though, for ****s sake.

I don't have kids. Thank god.

PS

Her Type 1 - how well is it controlled at the moment? Is it possible that control may be getting a bit shaky, exacerbating mood problems?

@clodhopper - Sound advice, thank you. And the note idea is BRILLIANT!! We've already had the 'Our bedroom is out of bounds' conversation, and the 'if you want to borrow something just ask' conversation. I might have to place a note or two just for the hell of it! Great suggestion, cheers!

@martin - yes, I'd wondered about that. She's on a continuous glucose monitor , which has really helped in her understanding of her BSL patterns. I'll endeavour to attend her next meeting with her T1 consultant.

The whole T1/teenage arena is a forum unto itself. We do all we can to encourage healthy eating and life-style choices, only to find Haribo wrappers stuffed down the back of her mattress etc. Fr1ck1n' nightmare, tbh.

On the possibility she has done this, does she have anything to show for it?

I would expect something along the lines of a new phone, shoes, handbag, clothes and I'd also expect said item(s) to be of a higher value than usual.

I don't want to pry into your finances but do you feel like her peers have access to more 'cash' then her? This can be such a cruel situation at her age as she may feel compelled to keep up with current trends etc and if she isn't as flush as her friends then maybe its a way of obtaining such.(This is mainly on the earings, but even clothes not worn by her before can be seen as a new addition and her peers may ask about it, where she got it from etc and suddenly she fits in again, or at least feels like she does)

I feel for you and I wish there was a quick and simple solution. Best of luck in whatever direction you choose to deal with this.

Does she bring anyone home with her. Our daughter's friend was stealing from us. He'd visit with her and pop upstairs to use the loo and nick something while he was alone.

If it definitely is her, just don't invite her home for a while. Make it clear you don't believe her and point out that it's odd that nothing's gone missing since she stopped visiting.

**** upsetting her, she seems to care little for you. Should you do nothing and have her strip the home?

Those are very good points, [b]almightydutch[/b]. I mentioned earlier in the thread, whilst I'm confident that she's not into drugs, clothing and accessories ARE very much her thing. It's tricky to gauge as she spends her time between two homes, and communication with her mother isn't great. I don't think she would be so stupid to start flashing the bling around us if she had have stolen from our home. That said, I'll keep an eye on it, and talk to the ex.

Thanks almighty dutch.

Bunking off school, Shoplifting, drinking, graffiti (the big stuff, not scrawling on bus seats). Some (not me) went further and were robbing cars, and dealing drugs, n stuff.

Probably shouldn't admit this, but I used to 'borrow' my parents car and go for a drive! Not had any driving lessons, not insured, only 16/17.

Looking back it was madness, but at the time I just liked driving.

They never knew anything of it though.

"@clodhopper - Sound advice, thank you. And the note idea is BRILLIANT!!"

Thanks. I dare say some grumpy sod will be along presently to tell me how my advice isn't wanted, and that the note idea is just me trying to ram my ideology down people's throats, or some other such nonsense. 😀

Sometimes, passive/agressive is the way to go. But I think it's very dangerous to 'criminalise' a child, because then there's always that trust issue to deal with. With prevention being better than the cure, maybe lock away all other valuables in a secret place (yes, I'm aware how good kids are at finding stuff). Set things up so that disturbing them will definitely show.

I once put up a note in the (empty) cups cupboard of a shared place I lived in, many years ago; 'no, of course there's no clean cups, because you never ****ing wash any up you lazy ****, now go and look in your bed'.

Worked. 8)

The beer in the fridge theft wasn't dealt with so gently.

@zanelad - Sorry to hear that - they can be such sly little buggers. How did you find out?

I can't categorically say that it is 100% her, there's always a degree of self doubt and or reluctance to believe it. And building a portfolio of suspicion isn't helping. That's what I found tempting about the covert cctv route, if i'm honest; un-contravenable evidence.

But not sure that that's for the best.