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Started a new job over a year ago and with bonus am achieving in excess of £50k, Mrs has 2 small shops which employ 4 people and breaks even each year. She doesn't take a wage from it but will do one day.
Found out today that it looks like I will have to repay our child allowance through higher tax next year to offset it. If me and the Mrs both earned £49k each though we'd be able to "keep" it.
Who do I vote for in the next election to get rid of this stupid tax I have found myself victim to?
Life's not fair..
In other news, £50k is quite a lot..
Enjoy it!
DrP
You are joking arent you?
On £50k a year, then saying you need an extra £20-35 a week.
Get in the real world where the majority of families live on well under £30k a year.
Tax? You've stopped taking a handout. Bask in your moral superiority.
Who do I vote for in the next election to get rid of this stupid tax I have found myself victim to?
Its such a bad idea it will no doubt have the tax threshhold reduced so as to capture more people.
The way its structured is stupid I agree as you can have families on 50k not getting it and those on 99k getting, the way they impose the limit is too- they don't limit the payment, you need to fill in the tax return.
But most stupid of all is the fact that benefits get given to families on 49k income in the first place....
5thElefant - Member
Tax? You've stopped taking a handout. Bask in your moral superiority.
+1
that's one of the reasons the state of the country's finances are buggered; people going into the ballet box thinking how can I stuff my wallet?
Tbh, now I've read your misery, I seriously shall vote for the party who are imposing this tax upon you.
I mean ffs, wake up and smell the coffee, YOUR FRIGGIN LOADED!
Family of four here.. Two young kids.. We couldn't bring in 50k in three ****ing years between us..
greedy ****ing bastard.. May your arse be plagued by a thousand fleas
Whoever gets voted in I hope they think long and hard about who the real scroungers are
I have just been on the HMRC website and paid back 1400 quid from the previous tax year due to child benefit over payments.
I find it difficult to complain, there are a lot of folks out there really hard up.
In December I got a bonus from work that equalled about 1400 after tax, about a week later got a nice little letter from the accountant telling me I owed same to HMG.
Lucky for me it happened in that order really.
If you are within a couple of grand of the 50k limit it would be worth making a pre tax payment in to your pension to get back under the limit
Ooh look... The benefit cheats are here now too!
Only gone completely at £60k I believe, £50k-60k you can opt to do a tax return. If you choose to do a tax return and earn >£50k you can choose to employ the services of an accountant. Accountants know the rules and how to play the game, if your conscience can live with that.
Started a new job over a year ago and with bonus am achieving in excess of £50k, Mrs has 2 small shops which employ 4 people and breaks even each year. She doesn't take a wage from it but will do one day.Found out today that it looks like I will have to repay our child allowance through higher tax next year to offset it. If me and the Mrs both earned £49k each though we'd be able to "keep" it.
Who do I vote for in the next election to get rid of this stupid tax I have found myself victim to?
How absolutely awful for you
Are there no food banks nearby you could turn to?
I'm on 50k every three years if I am lucky. 🙄
I had a similar conversation with someone recently, they were about to lose some child tax credit or other and they were not happy even though their salary is 45k+, seems the last labour government convinced us all that we're entitled to some kind of benefit no matter how much we earn.
I don't mind paying it back its the fact a household income of 90k wouldn't be in the same position. I admit I have worked hard to get where I am and sorry I have annoyed some of you.
Bollocks, I speak for the rest of us who are not on this forum 24/7 that we all work hard!
You make me sick!
How about laying off the insults people and actually read what he put.
[img] 
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To answer the OP's question, Labour's definition of "the rich" is anyone who is a high rate tax payer - despite the fact that now includes many nurses, teachers and other roles historically viewed as underpaid.
With earnings well over the threshold for 40% the OP is in fact too well off and without realising, part of the reason there is inequality in the UK.
The OP should vote for Ed if he wants to make up for his pariah like status because Ed knows how to spend your money better than you do - even if that means most of it in reality will just be wasted - which is precisely why Labour introduced the tax credit system to ensure that families on benefits can receive the same income as the OP's net wage without actually having to work.
What drac said. We fell foul of this logic and it's not great.
The basic point is right- it's daft that it doesn't take into account the joint incomes. But the fix is probably to change it so that it does, and the cap is £50000 for both not £50000 per person.
OP yes you are right it's just one of a series of daft tax laws, same applies to total tax paid due if you both earned 50k vs one of you earning 100k. It was time child allowance was means tested, I personally think the limit should be higher than £50k but afaik no party is suggesting to remove this, certainly not Labour, Lib Dem or Tory
There are some bitter people on here.
Should have listened harder at school......
I'm joking FFS 😉
what nw says and balming labour for what the tories did to the rich is rich 🙄
ps what nurse hits higher rate tax ?
Universal benefits are pretty stupid. The whole thing about couples income makes sense but would be really hard to enforce. I dont want to get married just to fit in with the tax system.
ps what nurse hits higher rate tax ?
Not many I wouldnt think. Very few classroom teachers either.
same as most other tax laws - a load of over complicated ill-conceived shite
I'd be more sympathetic to the bitter majority on here if I thought their deep seated socialist political ideology had any traction other than either petty jealousy or a general lack of empathy for anyone not in their exact circumstance
I hammered the overtime budget to the detriment of family life and fell foul of this one year........guess what I did the next year?
Not ashamed of it either as like the EMA that came out that my kids couldn't get whilst those just under the threshold the kids were living the life of Riley on their £30 a week.
As for who to vote for, I actually voted for the party that were still screwing over policing numbers, pensions and conditions as they were overall based on policies the best at getting the country out the shit IMO. But then my opinion counts for nothing in respect of politics, same as religion.
But maybe if you pay that much tax you deserve a little back?
a load of over complicated ill-conceived shite
It was done this way as it was simple and cost effective to administer
If you pay higher rate tax you loose it.
I do feel for Jemima and Tarquil though....
ps what nurse hits higher rate tax ?
A few at the top band 6 working night/weekends shifts and in 7 working night/weekend shifts.
Put some extra into your pension, or maybe Cycle-to-Work?
[i]She doesn't take a wage from it but will do one day.[/i]
Eh, works for nothing?
tbh We both work for ourselves and one of the very important things to consider when paying yourself is what the various tax and benefit thresholds are. We don't make the rules, but nothing wrong with working to them 🙂
OP-because of your post just realised I'm just over the threshold. Did you get a letter informing you or do you normally fill out a self assessment form every year anyway? Will give them a ring on Monday to try and sort it out.
No higher rate taxpayers should be getting Child Benefit.
I think what irks the OP is the unfair way it is implemented.
Take a set of neighbours, both with the 2 kids. Once pair earn £49,999 each. In the other pair, one earns £60K and the other stays at home looking after the kids. The first family earn almost £100K and get £1800 child benefit. The second family don't get any.
Taking it away from both families would be much fairer.
sgn23, how do you do it though.
Are any actually earning this or is it just theoretically possible?
Genuine question FWIW
sgn23 is correct but iirc the rational was it would cost more to do it based on family income than it saved hence the simple , but unfair, method chosen.
Still think the NW clause of just saying it is above x incomes achieves the fairness test,
I'd be more sympathetic to the bitter majority on here if I thought their deep seated socialist political ideology
hmmm..
I'm not envious
I've never had any massive ambitions about getting a nice house or car or keeping up with the joneses or trying to be well off.. It's always looked like a mugs game to me.. I'm honestly very happy with my simple existence
I just don't see how people that are already very comfortable indeed can moan cos they're not getting an extra few quid for nothing when
a. there are people out there genuinely struggling
b. the country is in such a shit state financially
c. the poorest people in the country are getting the blame for it
How much tax is a high earner paying?
Considerably more than a low earner I would imagine.
The high earner has kids. Why shouldn't they receive child allowance?
They contribute plenty enough to the revenue of this country.
Should they be allowed to get a cycle to work bike?
How about NHS services? Surely they have enough money to go private.
I worked, never got a single penny of tax credit as I wasn't married and have no kids.
There seems to be a crazy amount of animosity against the OP.
Why? Because he earns too much money? What a bastard.
The allowance is there, he's not defrauding the system.
He's doing nothing illegal.
Some might not agree with the system but it's not the OP's fault.
The high earner has kids. Why shouldn't they receive child allowance?
Because they dont need it?
Tax credits are income based and you did not get them because you earned above the threshold
https://www.gov.uk/working-tax-credit/overview
You could get Working Tax Credit if:you’re aged from 16 to 24 and have a child or a qualifying disability
you’re 25 or over, with or without children
There is no animosity as such it is just that some care more about the fact we have families relying on food banks than we do about the OP's struggles on 50k + pa.
Because they dont need it?
Who are you to determine what anyone needs?
*edit - didn't read your question properly - in the sense that it was a question, not a statement...
iolo, the OP was moaning as he wasnt getting the Benefit any more, even though he is on £50k+/yr.
Really, how many families are on that - very few, it is very good earnings, and not worthy of any moaning when a benefit is cut because of his earnings reaching a threshold.
Tax credits - anyone who doesnt earn much gets that (<13k iirc), kids/marriage has nothing to do with it, apart from maybe getting a bigger allowance with children, no idea as I havent got kids now, but I was getting Tax Credit until last year.
No-one said he was defrauding the system, but it was the moaning about income when he is in a very good financial position that riles people.
Tax credits are income based and you did not get them because you earned above the threshold
https://www.gov.uk/working-tax-credit/overview
You could get Working Tax Credit if:you’re aged from 16 to 24 and have a child or a qualifying disability
you’re 25 or over, with or without children
There is no animosity as such it is just that some care more about the fact we have families relying on food banks than we do about the OP's struggles on 50k + pa.
iolo, the OP was moaning as he wasnt getting the Benefit any more, even though he is on £50k+/yr.
No. He is moaning at the system allowing a family bringing in £99k per year can get it but a one bringing in £50k can't.
Yes Junky - I realised my mistake before you pointed it out, thanks 😉
My point was, however - who gives anyone on here the right to determine at what level any particular individual does, or doesn't need something
But the OP states he's the sole provider.
If he was to earn 25k and his wife also got 25k (which I'm sure is closer to the demographic on here), would there still be such an outcry?
Who are you to determine what anyone needs?
Just a normal person with some common sense. If you are earning a decent wage you dont need child benefit. We earn around what the op earns. I have no idea how much child benefit is or indeed what the mrs does with it. We dont need it.
according to a quick dodgy wiki [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom#Percentile_points_for_income_of_individuals_before_tax ]source[/url] there's 5 millionish people earning 30k - 50k salaries in the UK
if they're all after £35 per week per child that's like £18200000000 getting dished out to comfortably off people every year innit..?
For me the issue is the attitude of 'which party is going to make me better off'?
Our taxes help provide for a better & fairer society. If we, the better paid and well off pay more tax to help the poorer part of the population, irrespective of their 'deservedness', we help support a well funded universal National Health Service then we all benefit from a more equitable society. Otherwise we slowly slide towards an Americanised state of affairs. Eventually the haves (people with jobs, houses and healthcare) living behind gates keeping the poor at bay.
Sometimes we have to 'take one for the team'. Our household no longer receives child benefit. If that helps secure funding further down the ladder all the better, if it funds tax cuts for the likes of me, then that's as bad as it gets.
In my cases its the ability to do maths and I am not sure what you want here
They clearly dont "need" it , they clearly dont want it as obviously the wealthy are greedy 😉
hardupdad - Member
I don't mind paying it back its the fact a household income of 90k wouldn't be in the same position. I admit I have worked hard to get where I am and sorry I have annoyed some of you.
Whilst I do sympathise, A household with an income of £90k would be paying over £30k in tax and national insurance, whereas you're total payments are closer to £17k.
When Daffy Jnr came along, our household income was £28.5k! My wife was completing her PhD, we were entitled to no SMP or anything. £28.5k was all we received.
After Tax, NI and SL, that was £19.2k per year. Rent and bills were £1250, food another £300, that left £50 per month...
Junkyard - lazarus
In my cases its the ability to do maths and I am not sure what you want hereThey clearly dont "need" it , they clearly dont want it as obviously the wealthy are greedy
I know, let's all vote for the communist party in the May elections.
Business in OPs name, wife takes the wage she should, business shows an annual loss, loss reduces OPs 'income' to below threshold.
Or donate to charity to reduce income.
?
"I'm not envious"
Fair enough Yunki - so perhaps you fall squarely into category B then.
Anyway all these earnings figures are meaningless without comparable disposable income figures. One of my best mates earns 21k and lives like a king whilst another earns 3 times that and whilst clearly is not on the breadline can't afford to go abroad for holidays or ride anything other than his old rigid HT (not that he has ever complained btw, not once, not even about losing his CB)
I know, let's all vote for the communist party in the May elections.
Well if a straw man attack wont refute my maths/points then what will?
🙄
Well if a straw man attack wont refute my maths/points then what will?
I have no idea what that means.
Junkyard, what maths have you applied to anything?
Stop being so bloody self righteous just for a minute, can't you?
Our household income is somewhat less than the OP's, we've never qualified for child benefits (none for the first child in France), pay lots of tax and I consider myself well off.
Very well off even. I live in a great place with great people, do lots of things I enjoy doing. The streets are a pleasure to walk, the schools do a fine job of educating my son, Madame enjoys her job... .
And in answer to the OP's original question, vote Green.
There are very respectable arguments for universalism and they can be be made from both the right and left. This is a reasonable rehersal of them.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/21/welfare-state-universal-benefits ]Guardian link[/url]
Look we can have a debate or you two can hurl insults and fail to think
Iolo - i never said anything about communism refute what I said will you rather than make silly points about communism
Artist - What maths? I explained but once more ..... do they need it ? Do they really need it ? Will they starve, be destitute, homeless without this money ? No one could claim this is the case ergo anyone [ who can do maths/budgetting] can work out whether they "need" it . So who has the right to say this ...anyone really as its a fact they dont need it.
It seems clear which way this is going I will take my [s]facts[/s] self righteousness with me
Night
Just taken a look at the OP's posting history. Best step away from this thread before getting banned. Goodnight all.
[url= http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2256718/Should-child-benefit-And-tricks-help-it.html ]http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2256718/Should-child-benefit-And-tricks-help-it.html[/url]
To echo what the op said. - a couple earning 90k between the get child allowance. A single earner in a couple getting 51k doesn't.
While £50k is a lot, it does seem an anomaly.
(Suck it up btw...)
the biggest problem in my opinion is that they give you the allowance and then ask you to pay it back later on once you've filled in your tax return.
there's a psychological impact of being asked to give back something you were previously entitled to.
child benefit is over £1,000 a year - it's not an insignificant amount, even if you are lucky enough to earn £50k.
Iolo, the point is you don't know what anything means because you smoke crack.
😉
yeah, it's a bit like when tax credits overpay you through their own mistake and then demand it back through bailiffs and court action when you're already on the (government stipulated) breadline
Tax + national insurance - Benefits = effective tax paid.
Its amazing how much politics people infer given which word is used.
Increase benefits = BAD
Decrease tax = GOOD
Its the same thing!
i think its a great sign of mixed up system that a family on minimum wage pays tax so that someone on 50k can get benifits.. its equally daft that someone on 30k pension gets a state pension as well and 300 quid heating allowance and a bus pass.. someone needs to stand up and shout..
smell the coffee.. the country cant afford pensions for teachers etc retiring at 52 so now you cant draw till your of full retirement age and the max you can have then is whatever average earnings is then.. everybody could then retire at 65 with a decent income.. instead of waiting till 68 for my 110 quid a week..
Sorry to be the bad guy.......I just thought it seemed a little unbalanced.
I just wonder how many people bought an Apple device off Amazon whilst drinking Starbucks coffee when they were giving it all that up there.
Hope you all filed you returns on time.
I just wonder how many people bought an Apple device off Amazon whilst drinking Starbucks coffee when they were giving it all that up there.
Damn I've been rumbled.
ich word is used.
Increase benefits = BAD
Decrease tax = GOOD
Really?
I thought increasing tax on the 'haves' (anyone earning 50k pre tax is in the top 10% of earners in the UK) was unanimously seen as a good thing, just look at the fuss made over 50p
Whereas cutting benefits is most definitley seen as a bad thing,
Nearly pissed myself at yunkis first 2 posts
I'd be more fed up with the wife having 2 shops and earning no money from them, what's all that about?
singlesteed - Member
Iolo, the point is you don't know what anything means because you smoke crack.
Eh?
If you can open 2 shops and make money from day one whilst paying 4 staff let me know how. 1st shop funds the second while building up customer base. I would expect to see an income from May. It's a long term thing.