[Closed] Cheese eating surrender monkeys

It's amazing how people will say as repeat anything as an insult regardless of what it means.

What exactly is wrong with eating cheese? It's delicious, why would anyone be ashamed of that?

Oi you! Beer drinker! Pasta eater! T-Shirt wearer!

Honestly, just goes to show how brainless it all is.

It’s definitely Groundskeeper Willie, a scot, voiced by an American.

Puzzles me how Groundskeeper Willie doesn't require cancelling and yet Apu does.

What exactly is wrong with eating cheese? It’s delicious, why would anyone be ashamed of that?

I think it is designed as an attack on a person's/people's culture.

I remember as a kid reading in war picture comics "sausage eating square heads", with reference to Germans.

And calling French people froggies is also simply a cultural attack, in the same that the French call the English "les rosbifs".

Have you got any opinions on cheese eating?

Already stated on page 2 of this thread so I'll quote myself:

Cheese? There’s a fromage de brebis from the Basque country on my plate, a Fourme d’Ambert and some Emmental in the fridge. I like a mature Cheddar too but there hasn’t been any in local supermarkets since January.

I'm fleischarme but neither vegetarian nor vegan so have no issues with eating cheese myself or people who eat cheese.

in the same that the French call the English “les rosbifs”.

I can't remember hearing that expression in the last decade and remember clearly who did use it back then, very much in character. Similarly I haven't heard a German refer to the Brits as Inselaffe in more than a decade.

Elder teen to younger sister: you’re the kind of person who eats broccoli and enjoys it

No that’s a decent food preferences based insult.

@kelvin genuinely surprised given the prevalence of cheese substitute. Every days a school day 😀

Quite funny STW deconstructing the cheese bit which is really just a statement of fact. The really offensive 'surrender monkey' bit seems to have been left alone.

They certainly didn't surrender in 1066. Do we only sing when winning?

@boblo - yeah I think we’re pretty much in agreement that bit is a) offensive and b) inaccurate. No need to discuss further.
The cheese bit is basically more fun - particularly as we’re mostly jealous about the idea of eating more (good) cheese.

Does this joke offend too?

Want to buy a French Army rifle, Never fired but dropped twice?

NB who’d have guessed the flatlands of Lincolnshire would produce a Swiss mountain cheese (poacher)?

Ah, I always thought it was like Cheddar but I now see it's "somewhere between a cheddar and a Swiss mountain cheese". I shall have to give it another go, I love mountain cheeses in general.

What exactly is wrong with eating cheese?

I don't think that's the bit people are suggesting might be a bit insulting.

And calling French people froggies is also simply a cultural attack, in the same that the French call the English “les rosbifs”.

Many many years ago I was in a group of Brits skiing with a French guide. He had stopped for us all to gather back together. Having done so there was a pause. Cue one of the party muttering "Is the frog ready yet"? Another small pause followed by "OK rosbif, the frog is ready now". Anyhow, turned out he was Swiss.

Similarly I haven’t heard a German refer to the Brits as Inselaffe in more than a decade.

I would think it's due a comeback (Disclosure - English Dad German Mutti).

Do we only sing when winning?

I think that is normally the case, hence the chant "It's all gone quiet over there".

They certainly didn’t surrender in 1066. Do we only sing when winning?

Technically, they weren't French, Normans = Norsemen.

William was born in Falaise France to French parents. His grand parents were also French. On his mothers side the great grand father was a Scottish king. French with distant Scottish blood then. 🙂

Does this joke offend too?

Well it might pack a bit more punch if it was based on some sort of vague fact**

As mentioned on the first page "France has one of the best military records by country".

In context of WW2 France had the largest volunteer military outside India - 1.3 million by the time of the French provisional government.

As it stands the funniest thing about the joke is that it betrays the naivety of some people.

** As in the immortal Family Guy words "Ha ha it's funny because it's true".

I think the Normans considered themselves French by that point, they had become Frenchified, similar to how they eventually became Anglicised a few hundred years later.

Does this joke offend too?

Want to buy a French Army rifle, Never fired but dropped twice?

I'm not French but it makes me cringe, given what they went through in WW2. Read some stories about the French Resistance then see if you still feel like making shit throwaway jokes.

Technically, they weren’t French, Normans = Norsemen.

William's invasion force included Flemish, Bretons, and Franks, as well as Normans.

I don't know what percentage of William's forces were actually Norman but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a minority.

I suppose Vietnam & Afghanistan were 'conscious uncouplings' rather than surrenders.

they had become Frenchified, similar to how they eventually became Anglicised a few hundred years later.

They became assimilated into French society far quicker than they did into English society.

For example I think that within one generation the Normans had abandoned their old Norse language and adopted French.

That joke doesnt offend me either. Ww2 was a long time ago and even though it should not be forgotten, times have changed. Maybe brits are too focussed on the past. Which Does explain Brexit and tory majority.

Read some stories

Reading some facts might be better. 😉 Read up on Vichy France, collabos and millice while you're at it. There were the early resistants made up of patriots and people who found themselves in untenable illegal positions - les résistants de la première heure, their ranks were increased by the generation who chose the maquis over the STO. There were also les résistants de la dernière heure, collaborators who wore an FFI armband in the hope of avoiding arrestation at the end of the war when their side lost. And everything between the two.

Madame did a Masters on les passeurs des Pyrénées Atlantiques and a doctorate on the Maquis de Bourgogne.

People found themselves in complicated situations. It's something I would never joke about with people in these parts, I don't know their family history and generations on it's time to move on. The resistants I've known are all dead now, Madame still has all the tape recordings from the interviews for her research.

"Time to move on" is my suggestion.

People found themselves in complicated situations.

Which is inevitable in war.

I don’t know their family history and generations on it’s time to move on.

Unfortunately moving on can be synonymous with forgetting about, which isn't necessarily the best thing to do. Especially when the far right are flexing their muscles. I learned about WWII from my parents, one an English PoW in Austria, the other a telephonist with the German army on the Eastern front. When we can no longer hear those first hand experiences we are in danger of becoming desensitised.

Checking the dictionary the words aren't synonyms.

You can move on without forgetting. When current leaders share the stage at memorials it's moving on without forgetting. However, when Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage bring up "Blitz spirit", "Dunkirk spirit" it's not to say "never again", it's to keep a fire of hatred alight.

Kids have history lessons and there are still a succession of sometimes riduculous films made to keep WWII fresh in their minds. When I've taken kids to Germany they know the history and don't want it repeated. They now belong to a generation that has lived with the Euro all their lives, never needed to show a passport or stop at a frontier post. WWII ended 76 years ago, it's as far away for school kids now as the Second Boer War for my generation (the war the fictional Lance Corporal Jones fought in).

If there's one thing that people shouldn't forget about WWII, it's Hiroshima, because that was a taster of things to come.

The petty WWII based xenophobia needs dropping.

Oi you! Beer drinker! Pasta eater! T-Shirt wearer!

That’s me that is, right outside, now! I’ll hold your pint…

Okay so in a topic about xenophobia and cheese the one born Frenchman who might have a qualified opinion is being called out as not French enough and anti-French by an immigrant.

Ernie, you need to step your game up and fling some random, easily translatable and completely unnecessary French phrases in if you want to convince us you're not one of those self-hating French, Français qui se détestent if you will.

I love this place, never fails to disappoint...

Oi you! Beer drinker! Pasta eater! T-Shirt wearer!

That’s me that is, right outside, now! I’ll hold your pint…

Unfortunately moving on can be synonymous with forgetting about, which isn’t necessarily the best thing to do. Especially when the far right are flexing their muscles. I learned about WWII from my parents, one an English PoW in Austria, the other a telephonist with the German army on the Eastern front. When we can no longer hear those first hand experiences we are in danger of becoming desensitised.

It never pays to forget - “those who forget the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them”, or words to that effect.
My dad was a Japanese PoW, in Changi, a place with a terrible reputation. He never talked about his time there, although he did have some books about it, which I read later; he died when I was 13, but he had a pair of Japanese made binoculars, and he never said anything bad about the people, as a result I’ve met some really lovely Japanese people through a friend of mine who I became very friendly with. I don’t confuse the actions of a government with the ordinary citizens.
I posted a photo of a gravestone on another thread, one of those whose name is on it was a relative, a young man who was killed in action at Arras on 9 April 1917. He was 20. He was just one among twenty million killed!
Regardless of one’s attitude to war, those lost were all part of someone’s family, and their loss, and the grief of those left behind should never be forgotten.

Checking the dictionary the words aren’t synonyms.

You can move on without forgetting.

I said "can be".

... possibly not a contender for #TOTW 🙁

the one born Frenchman

There are two.

I was was born in the Queen Elizabeth hospital Birmingham, last living there through the Winter of Discontent.

If it's so easy translate "maquis" and "résistant" retaining the clear distinction between the two.

I Googled "Edukator Birmingham Singletrackworld" to see how kind/unkind I might be about the place, I posted this on the first Google result

I spent the first nine years of my life in Rubery at a time when many of the people worked in Longbridge. I reckon having an “English accent” is less of a handicap in any mainland European country than having a Brummy/Black Country accent in England outside the Midlands conurbation.

So what's the point you are laboriously trying to make?

When we can no longer hear those first hand experiences we are in danger of becoming desensitised.

+1

And far easier to 'rewrite' history.

I'd be surprised if the Norsemen of Normandy became 'French' in a century, despite linguistic adaptations. All armies of the time and before were a melange, the 'Romans' included Africans etc and the 'Northern Danelaw' lasted for more than a century over here.

I was going to post something similar but couldn't without sounding more of a cock...

For me 'moving on' is synonymous with forgetting and a bit trite considering events... My Dad fought at Arnhem and other family members were in RAF bombers.

As a kid in the 70's, the memory of WW2 was still fairly recent so this resonates more with me than say with a snowflake who only has to worry about when his phone data runs out...

‘moving on’ is synonymous with forgetting

It absolutely should not be. The Germans seem to be doing this so much better than us. There is no "forgetting" there, but there is an awful lot of "moving on". Our seemingly constant desire to frame whole nations around our idea of what previous generations did or didn't do during the great wars of the last century infantilises our population, many of whom seem very keen to "forget" the lessons of those wars, yet refuse to "move on" from the national stereotyping that arose here out of them.

I’d be surprised if the Norsemen of Normandy became ‘French’ in a century, despite linguistic adaptations.

That "France" didnt really exist at that time would be a slight hinderance to the cause.

Brie de Meaux in Lidls. Mmm - could easily eat a kg of that a week.

I used to work in a camera shop approx 2004. The chap that used to come in and collect the films said "The French have got a big streak of yellow going right through the middle of them" I was shocked and then double shocked when the old lady in the shop said "Yes its true"

I’d be surprised if the Norsemen of Normandy became ‘French’ in a century, despite linguistic adaptations.

I think the problem is that it is assumed that the Norsemen conquered and settled in what is now Normandy from a position of strength in the way they did in England.

Rollo the Norsemen leader who was granted lands in Normandy by the Frankish ruler had suffered significant military defeat at the hands of the Franks.

Part of the deal which allowed Rollo to settle in Normandy was that he convert to Christianity, itself a huge cultural change, and also that he would repel further Viking raids on the French coastal areas.

Also the total size of Rollo's forces would not have been that huge in relation to the local Frankish population. They would not have brought many women with them so probably in most cases married local women. Their children would, apart from not following the old Norse religion, undoubtedly spoken French and embraced French culture.

By 1066 I imagine that very few people in Normandy could claim to be or feel Scandinavian.

Similarly I haven’t heard a German refer to the Brits as Inselaffe in more than a decade.

A few years back when i was thinking of opening a climbing wall in Germany, "AffenInsel" was my chosen name for it.

Is cheese any cheaper in France?

Do we only sing when winning?

The unspoken art of National Supremacy demands that we never lose even when we don’t win.

See also the spirited British retreat at Dunkirk.

Anyway. Nazi Germany lost and Britain, France, Germany, Poland et al survived to become our friends in the EU.

I just wish Britain England could’ve remembered learned rule No.1.

Nothing is cheaper in France nowadays. 🙄

See also the spirited British retreat at Dunkirk.

Yes it's always been an endless source of fascination for me how "sod this for a game of soldiers, let's leg it" should have become a proud moment on British history.

That's what I call spin.

Also "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

Less than 4 weeks later Britian surrendered the Channel Islands without a single shot being fired.

See also the spirited British retreat at Dunkirk.

Yes it's always been an endless source of fascination for me how "sod this for a game of soldiers, let's leg it" should have become a proud moment in British history.

That's what I call spin.

Also "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

Less than 4 weeks later Britian surrendered the Channel Islands without a single shot being fired.

Also “We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender”

Less than 4 weeks later Britian surrendered the Channel Islands without a single shot being fired.

Ok but it's pretty obvious how both those things came about, and for good reasons. There is always a huge amount of spin required for wars, and that's something Churchill was really good at. That speech wasn't a manifesto commitment, it was meant to get everyone fired up and committed to do their bit. And it worked.

I just wish Britain England the rest of the UK outside London, Scotland and the major cities could’ve remembered learned rule No.1.

FTFY.

Is the cheese being eaten, 'cave aged'?

That speech wasn’t a manifesto commitment, it was meant to get everyone fired up and committed to do their bit.

It was made at a time Churchill was trying to persuade the cabinet of this position, with some members wanting to negotiate with Germany. The speech was made in parliament with sections reported in the press. The sound recording most of us will have heard was only recorded by the old ham in 1949 (probably with an election in mind).

I just wish Britain England the rest of the UK outside London, Scotland and the major cities some people could’ve remembered learned rule No.1.

There you go. Attempt no. 2

FTFY.

That speech wasn’t a manifesto commitment, it was meant to get everyone fired up and committed to do their bit.

Well of course, that's the point. The rhetoric and reality isn't necessarily the same.

Which gets us back to cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Yes it’s always been an endless source of fascination for me how “sod this for a game of soldiers, let’s leg it” should have become a proud moment on British history.

I was taught it was about how civilians crossed the channel in boats to help rescue the soldiers, opposed the military action.

Me too Drac. It was also about bringing in 140 000 (first Google result) French and Belgian refugee immigrants. Priti and Farage would not have been happy. 🙂

I was taught it was about how civilians crossed the channel in boats to help rescue the soldiers, opposed the military action.

I was taught it was about how civilians crossed the channel in boats to help rescue the soldiers, opposed the military action.

D'you know, I was reading about that recently - almost all of the little boats were crewed by Royal Navy or coast guard staff who largely took them without the owner's consent or even knowledge.

almost all of the little boats were crewed by Royal Navy

It wasn't much greater than zero, now, was it. 😉

To be fair, apart from acknowledging that the popular story is not quite what happened, I don't think it really matters much at this remove.

The rhetoric and reality isn’t necessarily the same.

Which gets us back to cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Indeed, and I can't quite figure out why there is still a requirement to mock the French since ooh, 500 years ago.

It wasn’t much greater than zero, now, was it.

this is the quote from the ADLS which you might be alluding to:

The Boats were towed by tugs to Sheerness where they were fueled and checked over then taken to Ramsgate where Naval Officers, ratings and volunteers were boarded and directed to Dunkirk.
​
The majority of Vessels were requisitioned by the government, some were taken without the owners knowledge, a small percentage were taken over by owners themselves as they volunteered for the rescue mission.

I can’t quite figure out why there is still a requirement to mock the French since ooh, 500 years ago.

Neighbours innit? People from a neighbouring countries are often the butt of jokes, primarily because they are seen as rivals.

And Ref Dunkirk, it might well have been a surprisingly successful evacuation, which without doubt included many acts of individual heroism, but it was also without doubt a massive military setback.

The 2017 film Dunkirk, which I know has been criticised, paints a hopeless and very dark sombre picture, which I suspect is fairly realistic.

Obviously it was vitally important to create this 'Dunkirk Spirit' in the minds of a presumably increasingly demoralised nation, ie 'we will return'. But the rhetoric doesn't for obvious reasons really give credit to how disastrous the situation was.

Incidentally many years back I lived for a short while in Dunkirk, I remember seeing bits of masts and other bits of the boats/ships which never managed to leave the beach protruding from the sand when the tide went out, I always very moved by it. No idea if it still happens or if it's all corroded away.

Still visible, Ernie:

Try Googling "lefigaro epaves dynamo" for the article, I cant link it. (second result in my browser)

And for anyone who reads French or is capable of using Google translate:

https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/histoire/il-y-a-80-ans-dunkerque-la-resistance-heroique-des-francais-face-a-la-ruee-allemande-20200604

An important nuance perhaps.

Honestly, I don't think it is, either way.

Yes it’s always been an endless source of fascination for me how “sod this for a game of soldiers, let’s leg it” should have become a proud moment on British history.

It was a case of 400,000 allies versus some 800,000 Germans. Sensible thing was to leave, and if they hadn't they would have likely been decimated/captured and we'd all be speaking German.

I suppose it was a proud moment. In that the military leadership learned from the terrible losses in WW1 and didn't fight on regardless.
My Grandad was at Dunkirk, Cant remember the actual regiment but part of the 51 Highland division, He was a corporal in transportation and made up part of the rear guard. Far as Im aware his unit didnt get out with the main group but a day afterwards.

Honestly, I don’t think it is, either way.

Just thought it was interesting, is all. But hey, don't worry about it - you were absolutely right, I fully accept I was wrong and I retract whatever dull, uninteresting and inaccurate point I made that caused you to engage. 🙂

Still visible, Ernie:

Wow that's far more exposed than I remember. I guess sand moves considerably over time. What I remember seeing was quite a few individual craft poking out of the sand but not possible to work out their full size.

It was very moving to think of what had happened at the very spot I was standing on all those years previously.

As was visiting the Commonwealth graves near Dunkirk. Seeing stuff on TV never really gives the same insight into the horrors of war, and the senseless loss of life, as standing in the middle of a war cemetery surrounded by thousands of graves.

I once heard that the French & Italians were the only forces who had tanks with 1 forward gear & 4 reverse.
🤷‍♂️

sound more like British Army procurement at its finest.

The Soviets reckoned they weren't worth a sherman.

T-34s is what "tore the guts out of the Wehrmacht", to use Churchill's words

I can’t remember hearing that expression in the last decade and remember clearly who did use it back then, very much in character.

My French mate certainly calls me a rosbif on a regular basis 🙂

I once heard that the French & Italians were the only forces who had tanks with 1 forward gear & 4 reverse.

It was SOE propaganda spread about the Italians. Later it became about the French as well. It was never true for either. The first lie had a genuine wartime use. The second lie is just part of our collective pointless “it’s just a joke, no harm done” xenophobia towards the French. And it shouldn’t just be lived with, we as a nation should grow up when it comes to talking about the wars of the last century, and learn that the real lessons to take from them are nothing to do with turning our words and actions against our neighbours, quite the opposite.

It was never true for either.

Did you really feel it was necessary to point that out?

Edit : In other news Hitler really did only have one ball.

Although it's not known if Himmler had something similar.

Yes it’s always been an endless source of fascination for me how “sod this for a game of soldiers, let’s leg it” should have become a proud moment on British history.

Erhard Milch flew over the Dunkirk beaches after a very Happy Goering had let him know of the marvellous victory they'd had over the British. He asked the pilot of the plane where all the bodies were, when he was told what had happened he wrote in his diary later (I'm paraphrasing) "That's it, we're ****ed."

That's why it's such a victory. The Germans had one chance to really it done, and they had to open the Eastern front a full year earlier that they had intended, and most of the senior officers released that by late '41 (maybe early '42) it was all done for bar the shouting. Letting the B.E.F get away was the biggest mistake of the war.

Goring was always a right drama queen, look at the tantrum he threw over the Mosquitoes.

The small boats were being used to ferry troops to the larger boats that couldn't get close on shore. Once they started to use the Mole on Dunkirk beaches they didn't need the small fleet anymore. The vast vast majority of troops were evacuated by the RN not the small boat fleet. (and I think most of the losses amongst the small ships fleet were accidents

Interestingly, (or not) the Navy was so huge that they didn't even feel the need to send any capital ships to hep in Operation Dynamo. The largest ships was a Cruiser most were destroyers, and out of a fleet of 200 or so available, only about 40 were used for the entire evacuation, and the Navy lost (i think without checking) about ten or so...a teeny percentage of the fleet.

look at the tantrum he threw over the Mosquitoes.

To say nothing of the endless fancy uniforms soft boots (for his poor feet) and the eyeliner. 🙂

Ernie. Why do you enjoy being so rude?

Didn't realise that I was, my apologies.

Ah, okay, carry on then.

It was never true for either.

No shit Sherlock.

I 1st heard that when I was about 14, 51 years ago. Didn't believe it was true then either.

look at the tantrum he threw over the Mosquitoes.

In fairness considering the Germans strategy was based around schnellbombers it must have been rather irritating that the allies produced the best one despite generally preferring heavy bombers even without their rather unsubtle approach to jamming his broadcasts and that the wooden materials meant there was less competition for rare materials.

it must have been rather irritating that the allies produced the best one

And in a piano factory.

It's almost as if they were taking the piss!