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Spoke to friend / car dealer about a cheapish car (around £3k), was thinking a Focus diesel or similar
he said he had a nice Y reg BMW 325 (80k miles, fsh, well known to him) for that price
first reaction was no way - don't want to pay for fuel and high insurance etc., but was wondering if anyone had any experience of running one of these - mpg etc?
thanks
IIRC (unless it's a estate of course) the backseats don't fold down, unlike the focus... ****ing stupid feature making it luggage space rubbish.
I run a 330i auto, pretty much the same engine but I get 30mpg with a bike on the roof if I'm gentle & 70mph on the m/way. Its been down to 24mpg when driven like crazy. The family ford Kuga + the beemmer fully comp for 2 30somethings in London is £700 insureance for us.
If you have 3k to spend though and are an atypical MTB'er why aren't you considering some kind of diesel estate?
It will be a group 15ish car, so the insurance will not be cheap even if your NCD is high.
I found the servicing cost of my 328 to be roughly the same as most other leading marques to be honest.
It has 80k miles so some bits will need replacing soon like bushes, etc., but generally the prices aren't that high.
MPG will probably be low 20s around town and low 30s on a good run (maybe higher).
Jesus.
A Y reg 325 estate for 3k? That's huge money.
Great cars, don't get me wrong, however, you'll be able to get into a E39 5 series diesel estate for that money.
I'd stick with a Focus or Mondeo if you don't know your BMWs. We picked up, after scouring for ages, a manual E39 530D estate for £2300, in perfect condition.
They're out there.
z1ppy - Member
IIRC (unless it's a estate of course) the backseats don't fold down, unlike the focus... **** stupid feature making it luggage space rubbish.
Some 3 series saloons came with a ski hatch, basically you could put the centre arm rest down and put your skis through from the boot.
3 series coupes also came with fold down seats. My 328 Sport had them.
ps also was able to get 37mpg at 70mph out of it too, very reasonable.
I've got a W-reg 323 coupe, which I think has the same engine as Y-reg 325 (2.5l). I love it, dead fast and comfortable and they still look good too.
I live in London and average about 30mpg per tank (mostly around town plus a few longer trips out). You can get 40mpg on the motorway if you're careful and stick at 70mph. I only use it at weekends though so just fill it up once a month.
80k is a good mileage for a 10 year old BMW.
Insurance isn't particularly high (£550 I think, fully comp, parked on street in south London). When I compared with more sedate cars quotes were very similar
Was folding rear seats a factory option on the 325? I've got a Mercedes C Class and when I ordered it I specified folding rear seats. Makes the car so much more practice, I can easily get two bikes in the back.
The straight sixes, sensors aside, are one of the last truly smooth and sonorous engines.
I loved mine. I often wonder why I still have my E39 M5 V8 - it doesnt sound as good as my 328 used to at full chat (although is bonkers fast).
A Y reg 325 estate for 3k? That's huge money.
I kinda agree. See if he'll flex on the price.
Also look at 323 and 328's. Quite fast but not obvious as they don't have GTI or SXI etc on the boot.
From memory the 328 is sub-7seconds and quite economical.
325 is a strong engine.
Ontop of this I ran a 1.6 Focus- Shit fuel consumption. I've found that on petrol Fords you never get near the average mpg figures.
@ Ho Hum and the ski hatch...
Hora, petrol consumption is also affected by how heavy your right foot it, my 1.8 has pretty low average but my g/f 1.6 petrol and now 1.6 desiel focus's have performed "small miracles" on a tank of fuel with "her" driving...
£3k will get you a much newer Mondeo diesel with less miles, which will be much cheaper to run in every way.
A Mondeo will probably be cheaper than a Focus too
z1ppy I know what you mean but I once averaged 55mpg in a big Legacy estate on the motorway!
The 1.6 I struggled to reach 30 and in my 1.7 I'm probably not far off.
I also think the bigger the engine the less a 'man' needs to boot it.
Price looks high, too high.
foldy rear seats on a 3 series saloon are optional extras that are very rarely specced, so unless this box was ticked, doesn't make a great bikers car. The estate is also rather small (for an estate).
that bimmer is 10 years old. you'll get a 5 year old mondeo for £500 less than that..
I expect I know which would be cheaper to run..
...especially when stuff breaks...
I had a look at an E90 D3 t'other day and that didn't have split/folding rear seats. They are an optional extra apparently, just another way for BMW to fleece money of you
Y reg makes it an E46 non? I'd certainly hope so for that money...
E36 estates are teeny, as are E46's.
Go to the E39 shape and you'll get a Mondeo sized boot.
As for the expensive to run business, that's a load of horsesh1t: I've run BMW's for over 7 years now, including an M5, and they're easy to look after, parts from the main dealers are very reasonable and find a good local specialist garage and you'll save a mint.
Additionally, Fords are not without their own malladies - turbos blowing, sensors failing and EGRs clogging. BMW's get similar problems (talking diesels here) - however ALL cars of this sort of age (and newer cars are more prone) will start to suffer from electrical gremlins.
You'll find, however, that a BMW of similar age, or even older, will be better screwed together, have less rattles and a nicer interior. They're just a much nicer place to be.
Don't be swayed by the naysayers - listen to those who actually know their onions when it comes to cars.
Neil Boltons right. Mondeo's are agricultural and those door cards are hideous. Plus who wants to be mistaken for a taxi? 😆
Fords are no way cheap to fix either when they (do) go wrong.
We only live once- try something abit special I say.
z1ppy - Member
IIRC (unless it's a estate of course) the backseats don't fold down, unlike the focus... **** stupid feature making it luggage space rubbish.
I think Split rear folding seats are a £500 option on the E90 Saloon, so not surprising its rare!
Another +1 for Neil.
My 9yo BMW doesnt rattle, and I was reminded how glorious a cruiser / place to be it was when I travelled 5 uk cities in 3 days last week for work whilst breathing the climate controlled waft of leather.
Also to add to Neils post, yes you can find a great / cheaper enthusiast garage, but often and recently (I suspect market conditions dictate) BMW run fixed price deals to see off the competition. I recently got quoted £420 for ALL discs, pads and sensors to be changed from BMW, to be told by the nerest price enthusiast they couldn't match it even with patent parts - this is a 330i M sport btw so has upgraded bits over the standard cars.
Fixed price services for E46's over 6yo as well.
1. You'll not get a decent E39 diesel tourer with less than 100k for less than £4k
2. BMW diesels tend to experience expensive problems at mileages over 100k. Turbo, Fuel rail, Coolers etc.
3. I had this similar decision recently, I bought an E46 330i over 330d and over all E39s, the space is adequate without the car being massive, the interior is more modern (admittedly only a little) and the fuel economy between the diesel and the petrol (auto) are only 15-20% in favour of the diesel....by the time you take into account the 5% premium on diesel fuel, the parts and the slightly more frequent servicing and tyre ware.....they're about equal. I just drove a 660mile round trip and averaged 37.6mpg (calculated) travelling between 65 and 80 for the whole journey. if you convert that into its diesel equivalent (+5%) for the difference in fuel costs, you get 39.48mpg......pretty reasonable for a 3 litre straight six petrol engine.
My car was a silver grey 04, fully loaded (Leather, Nav, TV, DAB, Heated seats, HK Stereo, Bluetooth, SPG, Folding mirrors yadda yadda, FBMWSH, 60k miles, and recent disks, pads and tyres with a single owner and I paid only £6k....needs some cosmetic TLC though.
The M54 engine in the E36/E46/E39/E53/E60/E85 is widely regarded as one of the most relaible engines ever made.
I would buy a newer 01+ facelifted Sport model though....
[url] http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-BMW-325-M-SPORT-TOURING-BLACK-/160664156492?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item256854794c [/url]
Oh, and BMW are now doing the 4plus scheme for E46. E39 and E53 models which means that servicing and parts are discounted upto 60%.
For instance (incluing parts, labour and VAT):
Oil service was £117 (that includes 7 litres of high spec 5/40 oil)
Inspection 1 is £181 (again including 7l oil and parts)
Inspection 2 is £279 (again including 7l oil and parts)
I'd be willing to bet that a six cylinder Mondeo would be a similar price....if not more....
Daffy- thats got a nice interior/exterior paint combo
Daffy, I have to disagree with you with some of your points: Any diesel will/can have expensive issues. At any mileage. I will agree that a petrol will be more reliable than a diesel, but then whilst we've all done 37 to the gallon with the 3.0l engines, you sure as hell can't do that around town. You sure can, however, do 30mpg plus around town with the diesel. THAT's the big difference.
I recently picked up my 140k E39 530D SE Touring for £2300. It needs two new injectors.
These will be £100 each fitted by my local specialist Forza West. These guys recently did the Inspection 2 on my M5 for £330 INCLUDING parts, so it's more than easy to do it cheaply.
Buy wisely and you'll get a good one, for example - the manual versions of the E39 diesels do NOT have swirl flaps. Nor do they have gearboxes that sh1t themselves after 150k or if you wind more power through the engine. The auto gearbox in the E39 isn't the greatest, however so:
Try this on for size: If you start looking for a low miler, you're buying something that has big bills coming up. Take a look for a car that has HAD the big bills paid for - suspension, clutch etc; it's not rocket science.
I've a friend who insists on buying low mileage M5's saying that they're better, and won't think of considering my M5 which now has ticked over 100k. However mines had everything done to it (most previous to me owning it) and is a rock solid example.
He won't have it though, it's got to be a <100k miler.
Guess what.
He keeps having to fix things. Whilst I don't.
Anyway, you CAN find a E39 diesel for less that 3k easily. It WON'T be a Sport however. You'll also find that a manual is like rocking horse poo. But look and keep looking and they're out there.
Here's my two E39's (the touring was doing what it's great at: carrying stuff).
M5 has a black/grey leather and aluminium interior and the 530D has a lovely cream and tree interior 🙂
my point around the mondeo was not so much that fords are massively reliable, or their parts cost nothing (although I would expect them to be cheaper than bmw. £420 for disks and pads? jesus). It was more that a car of half the age, and 20,000 less miles, will be cheaper to run, especially if it does double the mpg.
I completely understand getting a 3 series over a mondeo, but not if your primary criteria is 'cheap to run'
Any diesel will/can have expensive issues
Nah, not sufficiently old ones. The oldest generation of VWs for instance, the ones labelled TD not TDI are very bombproof indeed. Mine only needed auxilliary repairs apart from a turbo which I got for £80 or something and fitted myself - the car had done 185k miles and is still being driven now so it's probably on 200k or thereabouts.
The first generation TDIs are also very reliable indeed and not that expensive to fix. DMFs, expensive injectors and whatnot only come in later.
@Molgrips: Any of the older diesels are very bombproof I agree. I had an early 306 diesel - the one with the fiel pump that could be run on veg oil - and it was really good as an engine.
Shame the rest of the car was shite.
Oh and it sounded like a tractor.
And slow. Just like any of the SD/TD early engines will be - 60 something bhp doesn't go very far.
ps the OP was looking at 3k, so it's not like we're looking at uber cheap to run.
My TD was 75bhp. I literally just turned two screws and got ooh, 90 or so, at a guess. Not bad 🙂 Can apparently be tuned up to 230bhp with a few mods.
True. But you're then chucking rather a big soot cloud out the back, and still trying to get all that [i]POWAH!!![/i] through the wrong wheels 😉
[img] 
[/img] (yep, that's me.)
ETA my 306 was the same. Until the clutch died.
Yeah 230bhp in my crappy B4 Passat would have been lethal. 150 could've been nice and fun though, that wouldn't have been too hard to get either 🙂
Neil B, how much would I need to spend to get a reasonable 328 sport? Under 2k or more?
Is it really worth going for the sport over the standard 328i coupe?
I saw this [url= http://pistonheads.com/sales/3309277.htm ]one[/url] and thought it looked good, but it's not a sport.
Oh and are they "that" bad in the snow?
Daffy - Member
The M54 engine in the E36/E46/E39/E53/E60/E85 is widely regarded as one of the most relaible engines ever made.
The M54 as a whle is a good engine, but bits of it are not that wonderful like the cooling system (my radiator went pop last weekend).
Check to see if the cooling system has been done and if not definitely consider getting the water pump changed some time soon as they tend to break up around that mileage/age with potentially disastrous consequences.
acjim: That 328 is probably about the right price - it's wearing the right ambered lights and has the much vaunted slippy diff.
However it all depends on how much you like the M-Sport kit - the coupes ALL have the sport suspension kit, so a non sport coupe will still drive as well as the Sport models, but without the 'council' looks.
I had a later Sport model and loved the looks (even the spoiler on the boot, but it's a bit marmite to some). It was a great car to own - I had mine for 5 years - brought for £4350, did 65k miles in it, and sold it for £1250 having thrashed it to death! Never has a car taken so much abuse and just shrugged it's shoulders.
On the staggered Sport wheels, they can be awful in the snow - although I managed to get about, it was heart in mouth.
I wouldn't take the M5 out in snow - 420bhp through those 275 rears is just looking for trouble - most BMWs are a bit rubbish due to the wheel/tyre size at the rear.
Slap a set of winter boots on and you'll be beating 4x4's up hills.
Buy one and you'll not regret it - only if you enjoy driving (the interior is a masterpiece in cockpit design) - NOT because you're counting the pennies in fuel efficiency...
He won't have it though, it's got to be a <100k miler.
....and therein lies the problem, there is a general mentality that cars over 100k miles are not to be trusted/bought hence why the industry penalises high mileage cars on price.
So while in priciple, I agree with what you're saying, should you chose to sell the car in the future, you're going to be in a worse situation having a car with even higher mileage and lower target audience.
...as for big bills coming up....on a petrol E46? The only thing you've really got to budget for upto 100k is the suspension bushings (cheap and easy to do - took me two hours at the weekend) and the water pump....so long as you flush the auto every once in a while...
Thanks Neil, I'd be happy with a 26mpg combined (I live outside Bristol so my commute is 1/2 country rds and 1/2 urban stop start) - do think that's realistic?
2k buys a lot of petrol e46 tourer these days or a shagged out 320d
£1750 bought me a 95k 330i se manual, I figure with a set of bushes and a waterpump it should be good for another 30 or 40k (possibly need a clutch at some point too as they seem to have about 100k in them
only other issue I've had was a fairly simple one in the end, central locking started playing up and looked like it was a £300 control module that is coded to the ecu so would have to be fitted by a dealer bt in the end I found a guy who refurbed it for £55 which was a relief and only took 3 days including postage either way
25-30 mpg seems to be the norm although I've seen £20 of petrol disappear in 60 miles of harder driving.
acjim: With a sympathetic right foot, then yes. As sssimon mentions, get it some beans and it'll get you there quickly, but at a cost.
It's an incredible engine, well worth the money to run.
acjim- I'd aim for as late a plate as possible on a 328 (circa 98) as I don't think that car is 'worth' 1.5k.. and be prepared to travel (after numerous questions).
This is what I aim to do if I pull the trigger on a 850 T5. I've got a search set up for >200miles. Alot of phone questions then I'll hire a car one way.
I can get 2 full sus bikes comfortably in the back of my E46 tourer, so for me that's plenty of room.
Buy a 325 sport, then a written off M3, head to the garage for about 6 months and then you really will have a car!
150k miles in mine and going strong
Phil I'd love to buy yours..
sorry, not planning on selling anytime soon! Way too much fun, and it's such a practical car. It's a family workhorse as well as my 'fun to drive' car
I've got a 52 plate 330ci, they're not particularly cheap to run but not silly expensive either. Although at the age/mileage you're talking about then more expensive stuff can start to go wrong (and main dealer pricing is pretty steep). Mine for example needs 3 new parking sensors and they're over £100 each (ex. labour), common fault to. I've had some bearings go and needed new discs/pads is the only really expensive stuff so far (tyres aside, I only get about 7k out of the rears...). I've had it since new though and no regrets, I always intended to trade down to a hot hatch after a few years but never saw the point in the end.
Pal of mine has a 98 325 coupe coming up to 200k miles.Hes had it for years,rarely services it,think he replaced bushes and will drive it until it dies.
He says the parts aren`t much more than Ford bits and if he needs to get it fixed it can be done reasonably at an independent.
He`s going to buy another when it dies.
acjim- I'd aim for as late a plate as possible on a 328 (circa 98)
Why Hora - that 95 plate has a LSD ... which is worth a few quid on it's own.
sorry, not planning on selling anytime soon! Way too much fun, and it's such a practical car. It's a family workhorse as well as my 'fun to drive' car
I remember when you pulled into the carpark and I frowned at your exhausts and me and another edged round, looked underneath etc etc.
Fantastic. I should really scratch the 3series itch- it'd be a 328 for me.
Mine for example needs 3 new parking sensors and they're over £100 each (ex. labour), common fault to. I've had some bearings go and needed new discs/pads is the only really expensive stuff so far (tyres aside, I only get about 7k out of the rears...)
Are you sure it's the 3 parking sensors that have gone? Have you turned the ignition to position 2 whilst in reverse and then gone and put an ear to each sensor? Also, they're dead easy to fit yourself and only £20 each off ebay.
And what are you doing with your rear tyres to only last 7k?
I've had Falken 452's on the rear on one of my E46 330Ci Sports that lasted around 15k no problems before I sold the car.
I'm now on my second E46 330CI Sport and have covered about 7k with the Michellins which were already on it and there's still loads left on them.
Had a 325 Ci for a few years.
Really was a good car. Quality was first class, little things you notice like the bonnet stays up on its own, no silly steel prop like most others. Lovely big seats, comfy too. keys codded so seats, mirrors even radio alter depending on what key is used to open it.
The best bit of all was Servicing, or rather lack of. Had it for nearly two years and never had it serviced as BMW assured me it will tell me when it needs a service.
Fuel consumption was not great (mid 20's) but I did cane it a bit. Cleaned it once in a while and it looked like new, the wheels (spoked alloys) had a super hard coating and always cleaned-up a treat, unlike the Audi that replaced it.
Should have kept it, one of the best cars I have owned and heaps better than the TT that replaced it.
My advice, BUY IT.!
specialknees makes lots of good points, another being that to really appreciate a BMW you have to drive one. Thats a real point of difference versus other marques.
I can empathise with him too - I went for 30k miles per year to 2k per year after I was relocated and travel to work on the train. The BM is now my fun/bike occasional car with 96k on the clock. Hasn't been serviced in 2 years and still 8k to go according to the dash (I may get it done before then).
The cost cost of the fuel etc versus the finance for a 5yo passat/audi TDI for the difference against the BM's value makes it not worth trading in/selling. Even though its a saloon without fold down seats, I've has two pas, two bikes and 2 people's long weekend bike/camping gear from London to CYB and back, 28mpg average and no issues.
Well made, drives superbly, cruises smoothly, GTI or more speed and 231hp to play with. 🙂
A big 6 cylinder petrol with low miles, FSH and then LPG it.
Buy it and enjoy having a decent inline 6 cylinder petrol engine before petrol becomes even more expensive.
I have had my E39 530i for 4 years now and it still brings a grin to my face when driving it. I also had an E46 328i for 3 years before that and I must admit to being a big fan of their 6 cylinder petrol engines 🙂