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I’d love a Caterham, but an MX-5 would be as much fun
This is absolutely not the case.
The Tiger R6 I had was nuts - so much fun. 2 litre zetec on twin 45 webbers - think around the 160bho mark. I think it was about 500-550kgs and just had the windscreen (no roof or widescreens). It had straight cut gears in the box with an extra long 1st and 2nd and massive tarox front brake callipers / a light sprinkling of carbon. As a road car it was fantastic - on track it was best on tighter twisty stuff as once they get around 100mph they have the aero dynamics of a skip.
My wife had an mx5 but one of the later ones - it was ok - but felt slow and quite heavy. I’ve driven a few mk1 and mk2 mx5’s but again they felt very slow. Maybe with a turbo conversion and lsd fitted they could be amusing.
I haven’t had an Elise (test drive one with the 190bhp Toyota lump in) but I had the 2.2 litre 145bhp VX220. That was riot - slower than the Tiger but with more top end as it was more aerodynamic. One of the best cars I’ve driven in snow too quite randomly. I think they’ve got expensive now too though.
I actually preferred the Honda S2000 I had to the mx5’s I’ve driven - slightly snappy on the rear on the early models but the engine is a masterpiece for a 4 pot - revving it out to 9000rpm was a lot of fun.
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Well my brother got himself a Porsche Boxster 3.2s for £3.5k.
Ok so its needed some work, brake caliper rebuild, srut top mounts and some niggling bits but its fricken lovely.
£175pa classic car insurance as its 2003my through PorscheGB club.
Its fast. Relatively practical, quick enough for the uk, not exceptionally tiring after a long drive.
Or find a nice mx5 then get a engine builder to help you to 320bhp with the tirbo and parts from a 323 gtr. They were super rare and came with a massive turbo known ad a disco potato. Cams and pistons would need changing, plus injection system and a new ecu but it will be fast. Might cost double the budget though
I've been looking at this for 2-3 years, hoping circumstance would work out, which it hasnt done so far !
My conclusion was that if you spend less than £10k on anything someone will have cut corners with maintenance/build etc which is ok if you want a project car, but not if you just want to get in and drive.
MX5's and Porsche Boxsters etc are very different cars. An Elise is the most comparable, but they are big money now and not quite as bonkers in a good way as a Caterham /Westfield etc but many of the drawbacks.
This is absolutely not the case.
It depends what you want the car for though. Not everyone who has a 7-ish wants a 160bhp fire breathing monster, as you say as they get near to the ton aero stops them from doing much over that. and your bum is so close to the ground that 50 feels like 90 anyway . My Westy barely made triple figure horse power, I think it was something like 107bhp of something daft like that from a 1.6 Ford, it could still do 0-60 in 6-7 seconds which is plenty fast enough on the road when it's got no roof and you're sitting on the floor.
I mostly used it to go to and from the pub with the missus in the summer, an MX5 will replicate that pretty well TBH
The mx5 will be amusing, but not at all the same experience. The Tiger (and similar cars) you feel much more connected to the road and when you get a bit of oversteer it feels like the car is pivoting around you. The snort of the carbs / stones pinging off your head (I recommend a motorbike helmet for motorway journeys) / exhaust popping and banging next to you etc. So raw.
I think my tiger was mid sort of power for a 7. Loads with more power than that / lighter etc.
Thinking about it - if the MX5 is enough of an experience I’d also suggest the mk3 Toyota MR2 is worth a look. Last time I looked you could pick ok an ok one for about £3k. Pickup the VVTli 1.8 from a celiac and it drops straight in for a nice boost of power from 138bhp to 190bhp - that engine has a real rush towards the redline in a light car. I looked into that or the v6 from a Camry which apparently fits at one point. Went with the S2000 instead though.
Pickup the VVTli 1.8 from a celiac and it drops straight in for a nice boost of power from 138bhp to 190bhp –
You'd only be able to get that sort of power increase if you're a gluten for punishment.
Oh, bravo! 🙂 <applauds>
Pickup the VVTli 1.8 from a celiac and it drops straight in for a nice boost of power from 138bhp to 190bhp –
You’d only be able to get that sort of power increase if you’re a gluten for punishment.
👏
Pissing iPhone autocorrect
I think MK3 MX5's are sorted, but not cheap. Still a big market for older MX5's - loads of cars used for drift etc. They just need some work.
Z4.. would be nice, or a Z3.
I've driven an Atom on the track, **** me they are back to basics. Didn't enjoy it at all. Felt like it was going to kill me. The Nissan GTR was a scream - the computer kept you on the track. Incredible.
I think MK3 MX5’s are sorted, but not cheap. Still a big market for older MX5’s
Nooo the Mk3 is known for being the worst MX5, hence the market for the older ones.
The mk3 you sit on rather than in, it’s heavy and under powered even in the 2.0. If the geometry is sorted it’s and incredibly well planted good handling car, but not exciting in the same way a lotus or Caterham type thing would be
Yeah, there’s definitely a heirarchy! TBH though with track use it’s not so much trailering it there, it’s being able to trailer it back, it’s only a matter of time til something goes wrong…
Trailer’s more a sign of space than anything else though, wish I had room for one. And a car that can legally tow, that’d be useful
there's also the fact that after a day driving flat out round cadwell(just about the furthest track i went to reguarly) the last thing you want is to be driving a 7 style car 4 hours home espeicially if it's wet.
van and trailer gives you somewhere to sleep the night before and to put all your gear, spare fuel.
i had a sylva striker which i bought not knowing much about them and after a year ended up stripping it down to a bair chassis and rebuilding it how i wanted. started of with a 130bnp fireblade engine and ended up with a 170bhp R1 engine which at just over 450kg made it pretty quick, 60 in about 4 seconds and on some tracks it actually managed 125mph on the datalogger.
could keep up with a well driven caterham R400 on lap times although lost out down the straights once it got close to 100, just had to make it up on the brakes and corners.
it ended up a track only car as once it was propally set up for track use it made it not a nice car to drive on the road.
sold it to a bloke from holland about 4 years ago for about 5k, it did need quite a bit of tidying up work doing to it.
Funnily enough this just popped up on my Facebook
Nice Tiger kit car with MOT on ebay for under £5K at the moment:
Same as my mx5- I spent ages finding the perfect spec with hardly any rust, and ignored the minor details that the paint’s all falling off and the crank’s shagged. Drove it the length of the country and did a trackday with it rattling its little duratec heart out. And now I have an even worse mazda 6 to rob the engine out of. It’s an absolute disaster all round and I couldn’t be happier.
I was going to suggest something like that, get a decent MX5, get all the running gear sorted out, then put a V6 in the front.
Mighty Miyata in the States have stopped building MX5’s with a Chevy 6.2ltr V8, a 3ltr V6 is a much easier build.
If you want something different and goes like shit off a shovel then look no further.
nice looking car that . Love how they sum it up
Nice Tiger kit car
Oxymoron.
My Caterham kit build turned up last week, I'm looking forward to spending time building it with my son. It was a lot more money than I'd expected it to be, especially for something so basic, and once you've specced it as you want the total price increases pretty quickly
It'll be a third car and a toy, and more practical than my Honda Fireblade. Strong residuals help with the man maths.
The building is definitely part of the experience and what I wanted. Have a decent size garage to build it in. If I was buying it built I probably would have gone secondhand and avoided the 14 month wait from order to delivery
A couple of Pinto powered Avon's on Facebook for around £5k:
You could always upgrade the engine to a Duratec if it took your fancy later on.
I'd love a '7' but finances don't allow at the moment.
If I was going to build one I'd probably go with MK - they seem to have a great rep and decent product.
Westfield would have been my go-to as they're local, but now they're relocating to Bicester under new ownership after administration it'll be interesting to see how they come back.
Tiger provide a decent product too - full kit inc engine for around £20k self build - similar to what Westfield used to charge for the ZK kit.
@benp1 which spec did you go for?
If I had the cash then it'd probably be a 420 lol
@benp1 - how old's your kid? do the delays apply to kits as well as fully assembled? I have plans to do this with my two boys in the future, so want to plan out when I need to be getting an order in 🙂
The tiger above with the pinto engine is a Cat E1. That’s the most basic Tiger that’s been offered pretty much. But for sub £5k it would give you a decent enough drive if it’s built ok. The Tiger kits like the super 6 and e1 were very diy though - nothing like a Caterham to build. I did about half a build of one before I got stuck - the chassis came as a space frame and you supposedly had to bend and rivet the 27 alloy panels on. But actually they weren’t cut to shape at all - so it took a month of weekends to painstakingly bend and cut all the panels and get them sealed and riveted on. You had to recon a few bits of sierra - although it did have a custom wiring loom.
The Tiger Avon was a more complete kit I think - although I’ve not had a really close look at one.
do the delays apply to kits as well as fully assembled? I have plans to do this with my two boys in the future, so want to plan out when I need to be getting an order in 🙂
Yes all delayed. They concentrated on making a lot of the 170's for the Japanese market, because they are now Japanese owned.
Prices of kits or complete cars are now just silly money. I just configured a 420r without going silly and got it to £49,335
Prices of kits or complete cars are now just silly money. I just configured a 420r without going silly and got it to £49,335
So much money, hard to see them being worth that.
I should really get my caterham up for sale, I just can't be arsed with time wasters, tyre kickers and the like.
I don't know if the OP knows this but just to try one out hire is available. Certainly the cheapest way into one even if only for a day or two
https://caledoniancaterhamhire.co.uk/
Would love to have a crack at the NC500 in something sporty!
pretty terrifying..
I don’t know if the OP knows this but just to try one out hire is available. Certainly the cheapest way into one even if only for a day or two
I'm still hovering about taking in all the ideas! 🙂
Thanks for that link. As a mid-lander I may need to find somewhere a little more local for a run out in one.
Thanks for that link. As a mid-lander I may need to find somewhere a little more local for a run out in one.
https://www.caterhamsilverstone.co.uk/hire/
Not used them myself, but probably closer to home.
Can put you in touch with a friend who will be selling his Honda S2000 powered MK Indy.
Drop me a line if its of interest.
Thanks for that link. As a mid-lander I may need to find somewhere a little more local for a run out in one.
There is the Silverstone place, or Oakmere near chester. However when I rang Chester it appeared to be whatever car they had in for sale, and therefore they were not keen for you to drive them that far. By the time I had driven it to 'nice' roads in North Wales I would have exceeded the mileage.
That place in Scotland charge 0.75p per mile additional miles, thats very pricey to do the NC500 !
tjagain
Full MemberI don’t know if the OP knows this but just to try one out hire is available. Certainly the cheapest way into one even if only for a day or two
https://caledoniancaterhamhire.co.uk//blockquote >
Good dudes these- and in case you've been fooled by the "mx5s are almost as fun" they're adding an NC to their hire fleet so you could probably have a go in that too.
I'm just a sucker for any business that you can walk into their office and there's 2 desks and a morgan.
Wanted one for about, oh, 20 years. I live 4 miles from Caterham you see, and was always hanging around the showroom.
Hired one for the day a couple of years ago. For the day. Gave it back after 5 hours. End of the dream.
Fast, but that means you hit potholes faster. That hurts. Fast, but they are so low down, you can't see past things to overtake. That's pointless.
I still like the looks, buy you have to be committed to want one for the road. Side exit exhaust plus a 2,000rpm idle meant everyone from bus drivers to school run mums thought I wanted to race them. That was actually fun, until they caught up at the next lights, and it started to seem pointles*
My friend is a paramedic, and for a spell he kept sending me RTA's involving that style car broken in two. I assume some cars are better than others in that respect.
But at £5k your options are a tad limited on the getting an actual Caterham now.
*Saying that, I have just bought an MG Midget, meaning my opinion counts for nothing.
OP, set an ebay alert for ‘BBR MX5’ and see what pops up. That’s what I did but I ended up with a van.
That's what I did recently after selling my M2... Ended up with a really nice "Super 180" (actually 183bhp) mk3 2L MX5 with a mere 56k, in a stunning metallic green, coilovers, uprated ARB's, fast road suspension geometry etc... An absolute credit to its former owner, a serious back road blaster, very nearly as much fun as a kit car but a whole lot more practical and a lot cheaper too... Paid just over £7k for it!
Can put you in touch with a friend who will be selling his Honda S2000 powered MK Indy.
That sounds a lot of fun having had an s2000 and a 500kg ish kit car with 160bhp. It would have been utterly bonkers with 240bhp and a 9000rpm redline.
MX5s keep being mentioned - they can be fun - especially with an engine conversion or turbo but they are completely different to a 7. Even a mk1 mx5 is bigger / heavier / has proper doors and some interior etc.
I think this topic just goes to show that like bikes, people often get something very different out of the same thing. There’s polishers, upgraders, bimblers, senders and everything between.
I have a fireblade engined Mac#1 (very similar to an MK Indy) that I’ve had about 8 or 9 years. It’s 480Kg, 180whp, aeroscreen, no heater etc so definitely at the more ‘hardcore’ end of the spectrum. I bought it to use on roads and had some great early runs out but then did a couple of trackdays and realised you can’t really use the full potential of the car on the road.
Having said that, it depends where you live. I lived in the highlands for a few years and it was mega there; little traffic and great roads. I also drove it from Hampshire to Inverness and back twice which was a chore but shows that they’re pretty versatile.
You can also be as hardcore as you like, I’ve always driven to trackdays and driven back but would definitely consider a trailer for further afield days. On track, they are the best value for money with low consumables wear and generally as quick as much more expensive cars.
In the time I’ve had it, I’ve upgraded various things including an engine swap for more power and learned to weld, fabricating the mounts etc for that.
It’s a completely different experience to an MX5 and I’d recommend trying it. A friend has a 120hp Caterham which is arguably better on the road as you can use more of the potential and it has a heater etc, but it is considerably slower on track - work out what you want it for and go from there. Also, take someone with you who has experience with these cars; it’d be easy to buy something needing a lot of work if you didn’t know what to look for. I didn’t really know but luckily end up with a well built car.
These guys have a Caterham for hire around Worcester:
Bonnie roadtrips
Did not know that!!!
They're based all of a mile from my house... 🤔
MX5s keep being mentioned – they can be fun – especially with an engine conversion or turbo but they are completely different to a 7. Even a mk1 mx5 is bigger / heavier / has proper doors and some interior etc.
This is the thing though... I've driven Caterhams... It's the closest you can get to riding a motorbike on the roads for sure...
As someone who also rides motorbikes, bloody quick ones at that... A Caterham doesn't hold the same appeal, and if I want to go somewhere reasonably quickly with the top down in a 4 wheeler, the MX5 is a much much better solution on so many levels... A Caterham is as impractical as a motorbike, if not more so. The MX5 is nearly as practical as a family hatchback (OK so carrying a bike is a bit more of a stretch, but its practical for a multi day road trip in comfort and reliability). Once you've sorted the boat like stock suspension of an MX5 for something better, and given it a bit of a tune, they're remarkably fun on UK B roads and because of being so much more practical than a Caterham, you'll use it a lot more as a result too...
These comments are very interesting so thought i would share mine...
Ive been motorcycling for 8 years now. I hired a caterham 360r a few months ago for a weekend around S wales & brecon. In the next few years i intend to swap bikes for a caterham.
It had the raw speed, exposure and fun of a bike.
But
I could chat with my gf, wear normal clothes, have a snack, drive a rough b road, not get scared of muddy bits, have some heating, wear a woolly hat.
The only place for me that it felt lacking was the overtakes compared with a bike. But if you are stuck doing 40mph you can talk etc...
It made me smile as much as a bike, but with some added practicalities but definitely still as silly and ridiculous to be a toy. I can't imagine anything else with 4 wheels coming close.
I could chat with my gf, wear normal clothes, have a snack, drive a rough b road, not get scared of muddy bits, have some heating, wear a woolly hat.
Don't know what bike you're riding (sounds like probably a sports bike), but my KTM 1290 Super Adventure deals with most of those issues... A 2 way intercom would deal with another. I have no desire to wear a woolly hat, they are merely a necessity when ones head is cold, which it won't be inside a helmet.
Leaving your only real downsides being about the clothing and that you can't eat whilst riding, but then I prefer to stop at a cafe for lunch anyway rather than eat on the go (besides, there's no cup holders in a Caterham anyway, something which strangely my MX5 has 4 of!)... As for clothing... Well it's personal preference of course, but 90% of the time I ride in Kevlar jeans and a jacket, only reach for the Goretex stuff if the weather is obviously going to be iffy and/or I'm on a multi day trip (in which case, it's not a fashion show anyway).
It made me smile as much as a bike, but with some added practicalities but definitely still as silly and ridiculous to be a toy. I can’t imagine anything else with 4 wheels coming close.
You're right in that nothing else on 4 wheels will come as close... But crucially, nothing on 4 wheels comes close enough.
Just my 2p, but I think it will be an expensive mistake and you will inevitably miss a bike!
Hired one for the day a couple of years ago. For the day. Gave it back after 5 hours. End of the dream.
Clearly not for everyone and suggest you hired a very odd model if the idle speed was 2,000 rpm.
As I said before, I loved mine and did 30,000 miles in it but it was a more refined version than some variants. It was very comfortable, it was water tight, it had a good heater, it ran like a Ford Mondeo (which the engine was from I believe) but it was still very low, pretty quick and the handling was brilliant.
If I had the spare money I would be buying a Caterham 160/170 as I don't need ridiculous speed - I just want the very low weight and driving experience.
Good to hear of more Caterham hire places. I did read that there is a new one in north wales in Llanbedrog has recently started.
For those that fancy hiring one to do the North Coast 500 there is a Highland Caterham Hire in Elgin.
Before buying, I did hire one a number of times: from a place over in York (no longer hires now, but had a Simga 1.6 125) Book-a-track (310r SV) when they where based at Donnington Park, Oakmere in Northwich a couple of times (270s S3 and 1600 Super Seven SV).
I loved em each time i drove one, but it was the wife that took more convincing.
the last one i hired before buying was a ford sigma engine 1600 "super seven" the more 'retro styled' version: i.e. it was available with either flared arches or much larger cycle wings around the front wheels. had a larger wood rimmed steering wheel, and had throttle bodies which resembled carbs (but still fuel injected)
And i'd say, had i not driven others, i prob wouldnt have carried on looking for one: that particular one, had an engine map on it, so on a very light throttle, it over fuelled to produce pops from the exhaust... prob was, when your trundling through town, it's just not happy, it'd be lumpy and lurch. We'd driven over to Haworth to stay the night before head off towards settle the next day, and on heading out the next morning, it was a bit chilly, the car is already on choke: and there was some light controlled road works, and the car cut out while travelling through as the over fuelling flooded the engine. thankfully, i was going downhill so it bumped restarted. The steering wheel rim was that thin, that it was just uncomfortable .to hold after a while. All day we where just stuck behind traffic trundling along at 40mph along A Roads. Wife was like "why on earth do you want one?"
The one i eneded up buying: 1.8K series, SV - it's such a contrast to that "super seven" The Suspension is a lot better, and more comfortable over bumps, the engine is far more benign when in town traffic: it'll happily trundle through town in traffic. It doesnt have a daft map to make it pop and bang, just a nice bumble when warm. Steering wheel is a momo QR wheel, thick leather rim, much more comfortable to hold. Previous owner used to tour europe in it, and it's still a really comfortable place to sit for hours. Have done a number of runs with the local group of the caterham club, where i'm leaving home early morning and getting back 8-10hrs later having driven around 200miles
ps: agree - if it was idling at 2k rpm, then there was something wrong. They are usually fairly normal road car engines (with the exception of a lighten flywheel in the more track orientated "R" specs) in the hire cars, so should be idling around 900rpm like a normal car. Tho with the complete lack of sound deadening and (at least on the current ford engines) the exhaust exiting right by the driver's hip, they do sound much louder even at idle.
Caterhams (and all kit cars really) can be set up in many different ways, road ,track and everything in between.
The main thing that changes the character of the car is the dampers and springs, if you have a car with the standard factory dampers/springs that will be pretty good on the road, riding quite softly and taking pot holes quite well. If you swap to the dampers/springs that they fit to the cars used in the race series then you will lose a lot of the good road manners, the car will be exceptionally firm - but amazing on track, as long as the suspension geo is set up for your preferred choice of tyres.
After dampers, things like roll cages and straight cut gearboxes reduce suitability for road use further still, but it does depend on your mind set as to whether this is a problem.
I used to do loads of track days in mine, so its pretty much set up as a track car, with a full roll cage, bilstein M1 Dampers, straight cut gearbox, no heater (still got full weather gear though;-)), suspension geo set for running slicks, so its pretty hardcore/full on, but I still used to drive it to and from the track, going all over the country in it.
Would love to have a crack at the NC500 in something sporty!
NC 500 is not the place to "have a crack" in a fast car. Lots of single track roads and a lot of traffic. I could tell you some roads / pick a route round the highlands that is much more appropriate 😉