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I love my car (a Mazda Bongo), but it just uses too much fuel and costs a little bit too much on it's 6montly services.
Otherwise it's perfect (well apart from the fact it doesn't go under carpark height barriers).
Thinking of swapping, as long as it makes financial sense.
[b]Requirements[/b]
[list]
[*]Less than 3k purchase price[/*]
[*]Cheap to insure/tax/service[/*]
[*]Decent fuel economy (>40mpg the more the better)[/*]
[*]Big enough for loads of camping gear/bikes/people[/*]
[/list]
[b]Sacrifices willing to make[/b]
[list]
[*]Performance. As long as it can hold 80 on the motorway and get up hills, I don't care[/*]
[*]Modernity - current car is 1995 and I like it[/*]
[*]Looks[/*]
[/list]
Go!
Mondeo Mk3 2.0 TDCi 130 bhp
50mpg
Cheap as any other car to service (+ chain drive)
Massive inside
Lots of toys ie cruise & climate
Good to drive
Yeah it really would have to be a Mondeo.
Or if you have had a total style bypass, some kind of Skoda estate I guess.
A quick search on Autotrader reveals:
£2,495 2005 NISSAN PRIMERA 2.2dCi SX 5dr [138] Diesel Estate
£2,664 2004 RENAULT SCENIC 1500 cc 1.5 dCi Expression 5dr
£2,995 2004 FIAT MULTIPLA 1.9 JTD DYNAMIC 5DR
£3,000 2004 PEUGEOT PARTNER COMBI 1.9D Quiksilver 5dr Estate Spec Edn
All decent enough, cheap to run, less than 80k miles
I would go for the Nissan out of those - as miserable as sin but at least it should be more reliable (assuming it has similar milage and service history).
The Scenic will die every 7 minutes until you finally put it out of it's misery.
Almera not that bad really. Funtional car like the rest of them. I couldn't recommend an old Fiat, Renault or Peugot tho on stats alone!
I'm tempted by Japanese cars. I hadn't considered the Primera - will give it a look.
Reliability comes quite high in the overall cost of ownership at this end of the price range imo.
There's something about the Mondeo that puts me off - probably just that I owned a focus and hated it.
Pug 306 HDI estate.
Sub 2K buying price, parts are cheap as chips and rarely break, 44mpg no matter how I spank it, more on motorways, carries 4 bikes with ease. Will hold 100mph (though not at 44mpg!) and the electrics are not as bad as everyone makes out.
I would go for the Nissan out of those - as miserable as sin but at least it should be more reliable
Almera not that bad really.
As a long term Almera abuser I can agree with both sentiments. For £k you'd get a much nicer one than mine too.. but as it's cost me under £300 excluding normal running costs (petrol, tax, tyres, not servicing - that doesn't happen :-))in the last 5 years I'm happy enough.
I'd check to see what models give you cheaper tax - mines a 1.6 petrol and tax is the biggest annual expense.
I have an Almeira, ticks all those boxes, is super practical, and I would recommend them. However I think a part of me died when I bought it. Most boring car ever.
"probably just that I owned a focus and hated it"
I used to own a 56 plate Focus and hated it too. The Mondeo is so much more car in every way and starngely the same price second hand. At least go and drive a Mondeo before making the decision.
ok - Mondeo and Primera are current top of the list.
What about the Accord - old model too old - new model too expensive?
I'm just about to pick up a 306 HDI estate too (hopefully). I wanted a 320D or something but at the moment I need cheap to fix (ie a car I know) so this will do for me.
Remap will see 120hp and not really hurt mpg. Oil every 6k miles at <£20, filters <£20 for all 3 and cheap parts.
The back end is just a bit ugly and the aircon will be broken but I can fix that. Been looking at every other car for around £1k and nothing ticks all the boxes like the 306 but that is mainly because I know them well enough to fix anything.
At up to £3k you have a better budget, how about an Audi A6 1.9tdi or Honda Accord estate?
PS or if bargain basement look at the 406 HDI - the 110 version.
costs a little bit too much on it's 6montly services.
Why (and what) are you servicing every 6mths?
Oil needs changing every 6. Then there's always a few other little jobs.
Usually costs alternately £150 £300.
Oil needs changing every 6.
Not according to my HDi manual or peugeot themselves who spec 12 month 12K mile with semi synth.
If you're doing mileage to change it that regular then you should learn to change the oil yourself...and the last oil change I paid for was only £50...I'd get yourself a new garage as well as a new car.
The Scenic will die every 7 minutes until you finally put it out of it's misery.
We've had two Scenics; no problems with either. The Y-reg we sold to friends is still going strong with no problems and our 06 is doing fine too..
Passat?
I had one for a while, and it served me well. Seems to tick all your boxes.
My sister picked up a 1.9 TDI passat for £1500 or something, it's really nice. 98 or so but only 90k miles.
miketually - Member
The Scenic will die every 7 minutes until you finally put it out of it's misery.
We've had two Scenics; no problems with either. The Y-reg we sold to friends is still going strong with no problems and our 06 is doing fine too..
Don't take what I said quite so mikelitually.
As a long term Almera abuser I can agree with both sentiments. For £k you'd get a much nicer one than mine too.. but as it's cost me under £300 excluding normal running costs (petrol, tax, tyres, not servicing - that doesn't happen :-))in the last 5 years I'm happy enough.
I have an almera that died, because of the timing chain stretching. If you buy one that is pre-2000, they are supposed to be quite good and run forever. On the post-2000 ones, timing chain stretch is common at about 50-100K (to the extent that it took about 5 minutes for the mechanic to diagnose the most likely problem once he saw it was a recent Almera). Cost to fix = lots (£300 for the kit plus 6 hours labour if you do it yourself using unbranded spares, well over £1000 for Nissan garage to do it with their parts).
Joe
I dont have a family, but my 97 almera has been incredibly reliable.
It just keeps passing its MOT, I keep looking on autotrader for replacements but I never need to bother. Passes with minimal work aswell, usually a bit of welding on the exhaust or something.
I think from 52 onwards they sorted the timing chain issue.
Other possible candidates would be some form of Toyota like a corolla or avensis.
I'd probably avoid something with a TDI engine cos if it goes wrong then it'll cost alot to fix.
Focus C-max?
Mine was £5k with 4 new tyres, 12months service, tax and MOT, 33k miles and 6mths warrenty. So 3k should get a reasnoble one.
Inside it's huge, boot is like a slightly short but very tall estate, but it's party trick is the rear seats fold up in a relatively conventional way, but squeeze another lever and they come out completely making it a van!
Servicing is just oil and filters untill 100k when it needs the cambelt. So if you intended to keep it forever (i.e. don't need stamps) thats about £30/year from halfords.
1.6 duratech/sigma does 39.6mpg (my last 3 tanks average), upto 44mpg on A-roads, 37mpg at 80 on the motorway, the new 115ps with the variable timing will do even more but well over budget.
Things that piss me off:
Drivers door speeker cuts in/out (all fords suffer from this, cheep connectors)
Stereo is crap.
Boot is an inch too short to take the bike (large XC hardtail) with wheels on with the seats in .
Peugeot 407 estate in diesel, space tick, 40 mpg+ tick, under £3k tick (if you don't mind a few miles on the clock), hold 80mph tick, modern tick, looks it's a personal thing, cheap to service erm well it has 20k svs intervals but a svs at a main dealer will cost about £190 tax isn't too bad the insurance may be a little steep.
cheep connectors
On the tweeters?
I'd probably avoid something with a TDI engine cos if it goes wrong then it'll cost alot to fix.
Not so much in that vintage...
On the tweeters?
Beautiful - post of the week for me.
Been waiting weeks for a good opportunity.. everyone else seems to get in first.
How many miles a year do you do? While you'll spend more on fuel with all modernish diesels you have issues with dual mass flywheels, high pressure injectors and turbos to go wrong at £500+ each to fix unless you do a large mileage a petrol may be a better option in total running cost terms.
How many miles a year do you do? While you'll spend more on fuel with all modernish diesels you have issues with dual mass flywheels, high pressure injectors and turbos to go wrong at £500+ each to fix unless you do a large mileage a petrol may be a better option in total running cost terms.
It's a very valid point, and worthy of doing the maths.
While you'll spend more on fuel with all modernish diesels you have issues with dual mass flywheels, high pressure injectors and turbos to go wrong at £500+ each to fix unless you do a large mileage a petrol may be a better option in total running cost terms.
I've run modern diesels from Audi, VW, BMW, Land Rover, Volvo and Mercedes in the last 10 years. [i]Not once[/i] (and that's around half a million miles) have I had any issue with dual mass flywheels/injectors/turbos. In fact, I've not had an engine problem of any sort. And when you consider that I always buy newish but very high mileage cars (often a 3 year old car with 100k miles on it), you'd imagine that I'd be high on the list of people who'd be affected.
I've run modern diesels from Audi, VW, BMW, Land Rover, Volvo and Mercedes in the last 10 years. Not once (and that's around half a million miles) have I had any issue with dual mass flywheels/injectors/turbos. In fact, I've not had an engine problem of any sort. And when you consider that I always buy newish but very high mileage cars (often a 3 year old car with 100k miles on it), you'd imagine that I'd be high on the list of people who'd be affected.
Don't let that stand in the way of a good argument though!
Incidentally I know 2 people who've bought 3 modern BMW diesels between them and 1 had injector failure, one had manifold failure and the 3rd turbo failure 🙂 But there's too many variables to make judgement on these things like that and I still run a commonrail TD.
cheep connectors
On the tweeters?
chapeau!
On the mid actualy (tweeter is on the dash IIRC).
I suppose it should be pointed out that the diesel nasty expenses aren't by any means inevitable. Just things that might fail that don't exist on a petrol.
Of course on a petrol you might get ignition systems failing, but those would probably be cheaper I suppose.
I have a feeling that diesels are better suited to longer trips for a variety of reasons, not just the warming up times and fuel saving vs initial cost arguments.
It's really amazing how much nicer my diesel is after some proper thrashings on the Autobahn.
IMO - if you have a car already that does everything you need and is reliable then keep it!!
All cars need servicing, oil changes, consumables etc., so any saving you make in this area wouldn't be vast - and it could end you costing you a fortune if you end up buying a banger as a replacement!
How much you selling the bongo for? 🙂
Cheapest car is usually the one you already own...
And tbh a service every 6 months shouldn't be more than £100, even at a stealer as you've an old car
[b]molgrips[/b] - Don't know, I haven't researched it yet 🙂
[b]the-muffin-man[/b] - that's what I've thought for ages. I trust it and I trust the specialist garage (although it is miles away). But fuel prices mean I could save £900 a year by getting a 50mpg car instead. We never use the camper element of it either.
real issues to check out how many miles per gallon does it do? how much does it cost to tax? how much does it cost to insure? is it likely to last the time i have it for without major repairs.
in todays used car market running costs are everything.
52 onwards Toyota Corolla D4D, (but not the 1.4 version). Good on fuel, about as reliable as a car can get. They do an estate...extra load space, but a bit bland & rare. Failing that a Pug 307 with the 90hp diesel engine ?
[parrot-mode]
Mondeo is ace, I have one. Good economy, & its just goes on & on. Mine is on 160k. They have a couple of potentially expensive faults though. Its all over the net if you look, but remember there are probably twice as many Mondeos out there as any other car, so while it seems the faults are common its as much to do with the sheer number of them. £600+ bills for the DMF, Injectors can also play up, fuel pumps also can be costly. That said, pretty much any garage could put one right if it goes wrong, & parts (from non-dealer source) are cheap. Given the choice I'd go for a VW TDi engine car. We have both & (in my opinion), the VW diesel is better. Even quite new TDCi engine'd cars can sound awful.
How much you selling the bongo for?
Isn't there a specialist forum somewhere for this sort of thing?
yes, but there's all sorts of weirdos in those 😉
Ive got an 04 plate primera dci and i wouldnt recommend one, bought mine with 35k on the clock 2 years ago, turbo went last year at 53k and cost me £1480 to get it sorted...
mpg is crap also ... get mid 30s around town and very low 40s on a run and that is taking it very easy ....
it will cruise all day at 80-90 mph
have a look at nissan primera forums, there poor mpg is common and low 40`s is considered very good for a primera dci
also got a mega heavy clutch .... which is very expensive to replace
never had a car that rattles and knocks as much as this ...... im looking at getting rid of mine very soon ....
buy wisely , id buy a mondeo over this any day ...
oh almost forgot reading back on the other posts, my timing chain rattles like **** when it cold as well .... £1k to fix and replace ..
In the late 90's early 00's I had three primera's in a row until I got a brand new P12 estate in 2003 (the version you are thinking of) in two years and 70,000 miles it ate two turbo's three dmf's and among the memorable experiences one of the rear doors opened by itself while going round a roundabout. As op above testifies, heavy on the juice not paticuarly pleasant to drive and had too many Renault derived parts in it.
Stick with a mondeo for what you are looking.
Thanks guys!
I'll have a check what the Bongo is worth and do the sums.