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The lad is playing a fair bit of acoustic guitar at the moment, but wants to try some Electric. He's always been musically fairly handy and has taken to it well.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155915366523
These are sensible money at £50 a piece, the bottom one even comes with an Amp.
Which would you pick for a first introduction guitar.... Or, indeed, what would you pick instead of it ?
I’d suggest asking on the Guitarists of STW thread - there’s a lot of knowledge there.
Cheap guitars can verge into the “cheap and nasty” territory easily so some expertise to help with choosing a decent brand would be good.
East coast are a good budget brand - seem to we well reviewed - here’s one for £50. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235287559611?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=GQSM41j2QJm&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=wfjdAVbuQTK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Probably the most solid reccomendation for what you’re looking for is a Yamaha Pacifica. Great quality and build for the price and also pretty cheap both new and used.
Plenty of past threads about going to guitar shops and seeing which one he likes the look and feel of, particularly if he already plays.
If you're set on buying online though and want high bang for buck, a Harley Benton from Thomann
Might be £50 more but that £50 gets you from a GSO to an entry level guitar, and secondly Thomann / HB are notorious for being well set up straight out of the box, which is overlooked and makes a big difference to playability
Similarities between guitars and bikes is striking
Don't wanna do the shop thing as he never gets surprises and this one wants to be a WTF moment for him.
Whereabouts are you ?
Noted on surprise aspect.
What music does he listen to?
Spending £50 on an electric guitar can certainly give you the WTF moment but maybe not the one you were after.
I tend to buy cheap guitars but I know what I am doing with regards to making them play better from simple adjustments to filing rough fret ends, sorting out any slightly higher frets, changing scratchy pots and so on.
They can be a bit of a crap shoot.
Don’t wanna do the shop thing as he never gets surprises and this one wants to be a WTF moment for him.
I get that, but you'd advise a friend against it if they asked for help buying a bike.
But if you must.....do some research, what bands and guitarists does he like, what do they play, and get a copy of one of them...most of the main types (Strats, Teles, LP, etc.) are available in some form of copy
Berks.
His current most listened to on Spotify is Pink floyd, with the Beatles coming in 2nd and i think the Smiths in 3rd for 2023. He's trying to get Sultans of Swing as well as Hotel California down right at the moment as his practicing continues.
I get that, but you’d advise a friend against it if they asked for help buying a bike.
Well yes... but we're not talking big money here.
And you'd say the same on a bike. Put then on an unrideable pos and destroy any chance they'll enjoy riding. Spend a bit more and you can get past that. Only a bit, not silly amounts
i got the impression the first link, Stagg are a fairly well respected brand ?
PF / Gilmour and DS / Knopfler are both known mainly as Strat players, they're both great guitarists but also old ****ers.
Johnny Marr is also old but will never age, anything he does is cool as. He's played a load of guitars in his time but his signatures would I guess be his cherry red ES335
and more recently his Fender Jaguars
and although you won't get either of them for anywhere near £50 you can get
https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_hb_35_ch_vintage_serie_b_stock.htm
or a Jazzmaster that is similar shape to a Jag but less electronics. I have one of these and it is beautiful
https://harleybenton.com/product/ja-60-ow/
I picked up a used Epiphone Les Paul in my local music shop for £69 a few weeks back. Maybe have a look see in the local shops for something used? Or looking for new?
Maybe have a look see in the local shops for something used? Or looking for new?
Couldn't care less if it's new or used in truth. the Stagg in the OP is used by a family of it seems guitarists. the 2nd link i don't think was used much and seems likely it was an amazon buy.
I'd have to find out where the 'local music shop' is.... as i honestly have no clue yet.
i got the impression the first link, Stagg are a fairly well respected brand ?
By who? There are others with way more knowledge than me but I view them as if you'd said 'But Apollo are quite a well respected brand?'
You wanted advice, that's mine - spend a bit more and a whole world opens up.
By who? There are others with way more knowledge than me but I view them as if you’d said ‘But Apollo are quite a well respected brand?’
Your counterparts on a motorbike forum.
That Stagg you linked for £40 is only 3/4 size, you are aware? That would be too small for your lad now, I'd really suggest a full size (I know some adults play smaller guitars and/or use for travel)
Yes i was aware, i was thinking because he's not fully grown and learning, it seemed a better option (based upon a few other forum posts and speaking to the seller)... but i'm happy to be informed that's not correct too. I'm very very new to this so any thoughts are appreciated.
I'm fairly sure his acoustic isn't full size, it was bought a couple of years ago.
How tall is he?
Doesn't mean he can't play a 3/4, I know many do and Ed Sheeran gets by, but in honesty a full size would be the 'right' size for him now.
https://www.thomann.de/blog/en/guitars-for-kids-according-to-age-and-height/
He's bordering on 6'0 i'd say 5'11. Still in a Medium/Large in gloves if hand size changes anything ?
Ed Sheeran gets by
That made me laugh a bit 🙂
I have owned a Stagg bass. They are not great instruments so whoever is well respecting them may have an odd perspective.
You ignored what I said, which is fine, but I have bought a LOT of cheap guitars over the years and they can be pretty bad if you don't know what you are doing to make them better, which I am guessing you don't.
I have had a couple of Squier Bullets and they were not bad for the money but they are not £50, not even used.
You ignored what I said,
LOL i've not ignored anyting at all. WTF. There wasn't a question or anything to respond to.
quick gambol thru' FB marketplace
and maybe £30-40 for a restring and check setup
And at nearly 6' - it'd be like putting him on a 13" framed bike. I'm sure as a skilled rider he'd be able to ride it, but......
(fwiw, Ed Sheeran is 5'8, and his 3/4 looks small to me)
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SorryJV, i don't use FB and can't access it from my laptop even if i did
Firstly...100% get a full sized!!!
Secondly....try and search for a good condition secondhand Yamaha Pacifica or Squire Strat or Telecaster. They'll be much better than the likes of Stagg. Harley Benton can be okay actually, more so their Basses rather than electric guitars I've.
I was a full time guitarist/teacher for 18 years, so have played just about every £50 guitar imagineable. I honestly wouldn't bother at that price point.
Oh, shame - £80 for a Fender Squier Strat with Fender amp, carry case, etc. in Theale.
I'd be checking out Facebook Marketplace for local stuff - there are always loads of guitars being sold on there at all prices. I've probably bought and sold about 3 or 4 in the last few years, as I've narrowed down to what I want.
Buying a really cheap electric, under £100, might be ok if you know that it's been checked over and setup (probably unlikely), so almost certainly worth also Googling your local guitar shop and speaking to them.
No idea where in Berkshire you are, but I think Andertons are probably one of the biggest shops around (Guildford), so maybe not too far away.
https://www.andertons.co.uk/guitar-dept/electric-guitar-starter-packs
I have owned a Stagg bass. They are not great instruments so whoever is well respecting them may have an odd perspective.
I wouldn't touch a Stagg guitar either. I've been playing guitars for a long time and knew their reputation when I bought my daughter a cheap uke. How bad can a Stagg uke be? It doesn't hold tune for long enough for me to play a whole tune and the action is really high even for a uke. It's a toy shaped like a uke just like the guitar will be.
Fair enough.... The wife has messaged the Fender on FB MarketPlace... If the rest of you wizards can look over that it'd be appreciated please.
I also think JohnV's one linked is lovely..
https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_hb_35_ch_vintage_serie_b_stock.htm
So open to thoughts on that one.. Certainly in the clips it sounds pretty nice.
At the end of the day i don't think he'll care too much if it's perfect or average... so we're really not needing to be the greatest thing on the planet.
Stagg is garbage. Best used as firewood. They'd appear in Argos catalogues years ago.
The Rockburn isn't much better and that amp will sound absolutely awful.
They're the guitar equivalent of the very worst bikes you'd see in Halfords.
If you can, spend a bit more. Pop into a guitar shop and have a chat with them. The entry level stuff from Squier and Epiphone is light years ahead of Stagg or Rockburn. You'll pick up a nice Squier Strat for £150 brand new.
Maybe look second hand for the amp. Something like a Fender Mustang or Line 6 Spider
Daft Qn time as i know the wife is going to be asking me.
I assume you can plug the guitar into headphones ? (either via the Amp or directly)
Daft Qn time as i know the wife is going to be asking me.
I assume you can plug the guitar into headphones ? (either via the Amp or directly)
Via the amp you can assuming it has the right sockets, you'll also likely need a jack adaptor too as amps tend to use the larger jack socket. You can't plug directly into the guitar.
I assume you can plug the guitar into headphones ? (either via the Amp or directly)
I plug a pair of wired headphones into one of these, which is plugged into the guitar when I need to be quiet.
You can get headphones specific amps, eg
Which would reduce the cost of getting started, spend more on the guitar for now, and then look out for an amp later.
But he'll want an amp, part of the fun is making a loud noise!
Whilst i may not disagree... i'm not sure Mrs Weeksy will be quite as into the 'noise'.... Until it actually becomes music... Then she'll be OK with it.
I know nothing about guitars, but know a man who does (RustySpanners). Have recently acquired a Squire Strat and Bullet Mustang for the kids and he assures me that they are both quality bits of kit and good value for money. Especially as I bought one of them off him! He also recommended a Yamaha Pacifica.
Importantly the kids like playing them, they stay in tune, and they look cool, which is VERY important to a teenager. The Mustang sits in pride of place in my daughter’s room and is “looked at” a lot. Much like a bike, it has to be something that the kid wants to pick up.
My lad has a Washburn, which is a nice guitar, but it look “old”, so it lives in its case.
You’ll need an Amp. We have a dirt cheap 5W job that is garbage, an inherited 15W Fender one which sounds good to my untrained ears and a 50W Marshall that someone from STW gave me years ago which sounds glorious but if I’m being honest is a bit too much for use in the house and it weighs more than a fridge.
50W Marshall that someone from STW gave me years ago which sounds glorious but if I’m being honest is a bit too much for use in the house
On the plus side it'll expand the house if you want, turn it up loud and any loose brickwork, plaster and windows will soon be scattered all round
My 'playing' is definitely not appreciated here, so I've got a Fender Mustang Micro, which is a brilliant bit of kit. It plugs into the guitar (you then plug headphones into it), then you can switch through a range of different amps, effects etc as well as being able to stream (via Bluetooth) music from a phone. It makes practicing really fun, and other than the sound of the guitar strings, pretty much silent to others.
The very cheap amp I got as part of the first setup I bought was just awful. Tinny, crackly and just made everything sound rubbish.
Probably loads of much more experienced folk than me with better suggestions, but as a relative newcomer to this, I found spending (secondhand, if you can) a little to get a half-decent amp is worth it.
My only comment on the Harley Benton above is that, having tried a couple of 335-type hollowbody electrics in shops, I found the body to be huge, and as a relative beginner, found it quite hard to get comfortable with.
The FB Fender is already sold and being collected today apparently.
Likewise I always wanted a Les Paul shape and found the weight and size tricky. But they are gorgeous
@weeksy I have a Pacifica and I think a Roland Cube amp in the loft, in east Reading so likely not far away , I shpuld be able to get to it on Saturday
PM me if interested - nominal value to me so under budget
PM'd you...
Onwards... This guy seems to have several HBs for sale for not crazy money ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?item=305294513213&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l2562&_ssn=robc71
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53367321547_c7530ba5a5_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53367321547_c7530ba5a5_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2piTtpz ]IMG-20231201-WA0004[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Took my daughter to PMT music shop in Salford and we ended up with a lovely Fender Squire telecaster (pre owned £100) the guy in the shop played it back to back with the cheapest new guitars they had and we both agreed it sounded better. Got a Blackstar amp, cable and picks for under £200, the guitar she'd shown me at home was almost that much so I was loving the pre owned option. The amp has headphone jack and also line in so she can play along to stuff from her phone which is cool. Loads on FB marketplace as stated but the knowledge of the shop guy was good and hearing the guitar being played well was really useful.
From where Weeksy lives, it's probably 30 mins to Oxford where they have a PMT shop
It's not the distance that's the stumbling block there, it's the Xmas present surprise day thing that means we want to present him with whatever it is as an Xmas thing on the day. Getting an IOU a Guitar/Amp in an envelope just isn't quite the same. Add to this the fact that in reality, apart from a guitar being a pretty colour, we don't actually know what he wants in terms of the tune/noise/etc... Or i'd expect the feel/shape of it. I don't think he's developed enough style/feel to be able to say "yeah feels great" on one model and "feels horrible"... I think whatever it was he'd just get used to it.
Onwards… This guy seems to have several HBs for sale for not crazy money ?
My only electric guitar is a HB tele style guitar. (A TE52 in charcoal frost, approx £140ish new.) I didn't need to do anything to it out of the box, and other than cheap feeling tuners, it is a very nice guitar for the money. There are some reports about occasional poor QC but if the seller on eBay has set them up then I'd not expect any problems. Definitely recommended.
Getting an IOU a Guitar/Amp in an envelope just isn’t quite the same. Add to this the fact that in reality, apart from a guitar being a pretty colour, we don’t actually know what he wants in terms of the tune/noise/etc
You'd be surprised.
"Come on we're going guitar shopping" and trying a few out to work out what you like... Great fun.
More than bikes. You can fall in love with something you didn't know you needed.
Which is very much a worry in itself!
My point was though that if you go yourself (without him) and talk to people in the shop they can guide you.
I don’t think he’s developed enough style/feel to be able to say “yeah feels great” on one model and “feels horrible”…
You might be surprised - I'm no expert but when buying my guitar (from Andertons) some were instantly rejected (and yet are well known and widely used so nothing wrong with them). But whether buying yourself in a shop for him, or online that'll be an issue.
A Strat shape is (IMHO, and there will be some Strat owners and players on here who are about to kill me) a bit Ford Mondeo. An absolute classic, and in the right hands killer (Hendrix, Gilmour, Knopfler, Clapton, Rogers, Richards, .....) and by the same token most can get on with and indeed most players will have owned one in their time (or do own one). No surprise most GSO's are in fact SSO's, and many of the budget offerings are Strat shaped.
I think whatever it was he’d just get used to it.
The best guitar in the world is the one that you can't walk past without picking it up and noodling out a quick tune.
I really enjoyed the guitar shop visit, I knew nothing about guitars, one of the best weekend mornings for a while with my daughter, spent ages in there and she came out with exactly what she wanted rather than what I thought she might want. I'm half tempted to buy a guitar and get learning myself!
Shit guitar for Christmas. not really what is required when you can get some much better for a around £300
Appreciate that you may not have that money to spend but better not to have than something that will break your interest
30 years ago I took a young brother in law to buy his first guitar, he chose one and I added some money of my own to get him to something that looked the same but was intrinsically a better guitar
We met up recently and he ties that pivotal decision on his continued passion for guitar.
Your opinion may differ but I right on this one
I just repaired my acoustic headstock after it got snapped in a hoovering incident.
It's not really worth anything but I went in for an epiphone SG...
Edit - just read through thread and see others making better suggestions for 2nd hand...
What about 2nd hand. I've no experience of buying used guitars but I'm guessing there must be loads of little used guitars out there
Not sure what the risks are (only bought new) but others may have a better idea what to look for
You'd be how surprised how hard it is to get answers. Both on eBay and FB, in fact shops too.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256315871307
We've offered £120 on this setup. Still waiting, a shop in Oxford is another and the one linked on FB.
The guy with several Harley Benton's is good at Comms, but wants a bit too much for what we'd like to spend.
Prices are stronger than MTB in relation to RRP and used, used only seems to be 15-20% less.
Prices are stronger than MTB in relation to RRP and used, used only seems to be 15-20% less.
this is very true. It works both ways - used isn’t as much of a saving as you’d think, but they also hold their value so getting something decent isn’t money down the drain - - so long as it’s looked after you’ll get a large amount of it back when it’s eventually either sold through lac of use or to upgrade.
Harley Benton direct from Thomann is a good choice, but even if you don't play a guitar yourself you can still go to a shop and get them to play one for you. You want them to play both at the end of the neck and close to the body and both quietly and quite loud. Does it still sound in tune and does it buzz. Does it look great :). The Pacifica offered above would also be a very good choice
IF it were me I would go for a Squier Stratocaster (in black, like Dave Gilmour from Pink Floyd, although his guitar is slightly more expensive!), or a Yamaha Pacifica. Harley Benton is another good opiton, and they also do Strat copies that look good. There is a reason that strats are still very popular as they are generally pretty good guitars.
My sons £100 Squier Strat is surprisingly good to play, and better than my other sons £80 Harley Benton strat, although not by much. For comparison I mainly play a £1k Jackson and a 90s Gobson SG that is probably worth at least a few hundred, so these cheaper ones hold up reasonably well - good for the price.
Dont forget to budget for an amp (a cheap one will do for now, but pretty soon you will need to upgrade it - the amp makes a huge difference to the quality of the noise. The Roland Cube offered above is a pretty decent amp beyond the real basic starter amps.You will also need a cable (around £7-10 for a semi-decent one) and possible picks/straps, although these can be found for very little.
I wouldnt go for second hand at this price unless you know what you are buying - a cheap guitar may have been set up by its owner, and that can be good, or very bad - and if you dont play it is impossible to really know the difference. Getting a poorly set up guitar sorted will cost around £30+ so could be a false economy
Colour choice is very important.
From chatting and pulling the boys brain apart I think we're going to end up going to a shop instead of buying randomly in advance. Partly because of what you guys said and partly because (as you said) they're quite individual in terms of colour, shape, fit, style etc.
It'll be after Xmas rather than on the day, which is a shame of course, but gives us a better chance. We may still buy online after that, but armed with a little more knowledge then.
When it comes to guitar amps, having a loop function is handy.
It’ll be after Xmas rather than on the day,
Make him a cardboard one. In pink, with elastic bands for strings:). You know you want to
If you can’t find a cheap, secondhand amp…
JOYO Mini Practice Guitar Amp Combo 5W Rechargeable Small Guitar Amplifier with Two Channels Bluetooth Headphone Jack(JA-02 II Blue) https://amzn.eu/d/iLmMM6h
Or, if your son is happy to use headphones, buy some kind of digital multitrack recorder, and use the onboard amp and effects.
You’d require some kind of audio interface to run the guitar through a laptop.
If your son is an Apple fanboi, an Irig can be found cheap on eBay.
As for guitar?
A squire bullet mustang or a used Vintage v6s/ epiphone g400.
The latter seems quite popular with guitar students and battle-of-the bands types. (Short scale neck, easy to lug around)
And it’s not even Monday…
Good decision. Now remember, it's an investment and still a fraction of the price of an EEB. And the law of diminishing returns definitely applies.
And I stick by it, a Strat is the Mondeo of the guitar world and a black Strat is the silver Mondeo of the guitar world 😉
Despite it clearly being an advert there are some good tips on buying a first guitar here. Especially the one that say buy him the one HE likes the look of as then he's more likely to want to pose in front of the mirror with it which in turn means he'll want to practice more.
And I stick by it, a Strat is the Mondeo of the guitar world and a black Strat is the silver Mondeo of the guitar world
I find that anology highly problematic... and I don't even like strats that much due to thier ubiquitousness but they have a 'sound' to them.. like a Gibson SG has as 'sound' to it...or a Martin acoustic.. it just has a certain vibe and twang, and you know just what it is when you hear it or feel it or play it.
It's tongue in cheek, but that ubiquitousness is what I'm joshing at.
Because, like the Mondeo, it is damn good at what it does.
It's the wrong ford.
The telecaster is the ford model t. Designed to be mass produced line no guitar before. Produced in large numbers. Completely revolutionised the industry.
That makes the strat a model A I guess. But with model T sales figures.
The guys in PMT Oxford were great. Popped in with my lad and spent ages in their practice room trying different guitars out.
We left empty handed (he's been saving up to buy one). I went back later and bought the one he liked. I can't wait until Xmas day!
Was it that lespaul?
I'd have probably bought that for him if he hadn't gone and tried a few out. Also tried the Epiphone SG and a few others. His Favourite by far was the Ibanez Mikro.
The kid in me wants that yellow Strat.
Are you buying him some leather trousers and a wig to go with?
That's going to be a mega good day, opening that. You should ask the shop for any old box for a GSO
And put it in that before wrapping 😁
whatever you do, if you do end up buying online ensure it’s from a reputable shop. Lots of fakes out there, especially things like epiphones
Think he's definitely going to grow into that look! He taught himself Judas Priest Breaking the Law the other week and has been banging out Since you've been gone all morning.
Big bro came home for a visit last weekend and the pair of them spent the majority of time doing this...
50W Marshall that someone from STW gave me years ago which sounds glorious but if I’m being honest is a bit too much for use in the house and it weighs more than a fridge.
One year The Boy spent his summer earnings on a secondhand 8 x 10" cab and a 500W amp. I would have preferred a 50W, bass at those levels will find any weakness in the building (plus frighten the dog and neighbours within 500m.
His band mates invited that he didn't practice or play at full volume with them as they liked to hear the drums. The cab has gone but does anyone want/need a 500W bass amp with wireless playing capability?
I'd be talking to FinishThat, Pacificas are ideal starter guitars, very hard to damage, very average and comfortable to play. If you're going to a shop the trick is to sound each individual note on the fretboard with similar intensity, listening for any differences. Some people think you have to play the most fancy chops you know as loud as possible but that often won't tell you much about the guitar.