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Kids were supposed to be going on a school trip in summer 2020. I paid deposits and initial payments totalling £400 for the trips which were going to cost £835 each (£1670).
Now obviously the trips haven't gone ahead, the school have said that the deposits are non refundable (ie completely lost) and Junior 1 is going to leave school before there is any chance of it running again.
I paid deposits on ParentPay, funded by PayPal which was funded by my Amex cash back card.
I'm pondering looking into initiating a charge back with someone, not sure who but as the trail is complicated, I thought I'd ask if anyone has had an similar experiences?
I guess I start with ParentPay?
Maybe start with Paypal, goods not delivered? Not sure how the school can wiggle out of a trip they organised that got canned, they are responsible and should be refunding the deposits.
Package tour regs are your friend. If the trip involves accommodation and another service that's a package and the trip should be bonded/insured by the tour operator.
I don't understand how the school can claim a deposit is non-refundable if they (or the tour operator) cancelled the trip. They failed to provide the service and are, on the face of it, in breach of contract. I'd issue the school with a letter before action and then pursue through the small claims. You could go to the credit providers but I think it will be long, slow, protracted (you might want to get some professional advice if the small claims route failed for any reason would that stop you going to the credit route).
The only way I'd be taking a different approach would be if the school had provided full, transparent and detailed accounts showing that they were out of pocket and had made extensive efforts to recover the funds.
I don’t understand how the school can claim a deposit is non-refundable if they (or the tour operator) cancelled the trip.
My brother is in the same sitaution with a ski trip - IIRC £800 lost with no refund....
Id be speaking to the school and other parents before going down the chargeback route - iirc there is a 6month from payment limit on charge backs.
Assuming the other kid is still going to be in school and will get the chance to do another trip (as equally as expensive), can you get the school to take both deposits as payment towards the other trip?
If not, definitely charge back as sounds like the school are pulling a fast one...
Not sure how the school can wiggle out of a trip they organised that got canned, they are responsible and should be refunding the deposits.
It is not the school.
It is the tour providers.
Many schools and parents have been caught by this, with a 'non refundable' deposit and trip insurance that wouldn't pay out for Covid cancellations. It is now for most against local authority or academy chain advice to travel abroad, even though UK residentials can re-start.
See:
England and Wales: https://oeapng.info/downloads/download-info/3-2h-self-organised-visits-and-the-package-travel-regulations/
or in Scotland
https://www.sapoe.org.uk/what-we-do/guidance-for-off-site-visits/
Section 75 chargebacks do not apply to PayPal payments which are in turn used to purchase another service.
Your CC and PayPal have fulfilled their contractual obligations as far as the CCA is concerned and your only recourse is via PayPal or action against the school.
Nothing to add other than ParentPay is a complete dog of a system. Everything about is is terrible.
We ended up with £80 credit in our lads account when he finished primary school. It took months to get the money back.
If the school also lost their deposit contributions, surely they're out of pocket too? I'd be clarifying this before I tried to get money out of them.
If the school also lost their deposit contributions, surely they’re out of pocket too? I’d be clarifying this before I tried to get money out of them.
One assumes so, but what efforts have the school gone to, to recover the funds? It may be easiest for them to have it treated as "credit" towards a future trip (almost certainly the provider's cash flow preference) but if it is not the same pupils that's hardly workable.
If the school also lost their deposit contributions, surely they’re out of pocket too? I’d be clarifying this before I tried to get money out of them
Really? If I were out of pocket £400 I would be wanting it back regardless. I haven't got that kind of money spare to just write off and if the school didn't have adequate insurance/arrangements in place in the event of cancellation then that is their problem...
We had this at the start of the crisis with daughters Uni snowboard trip that was cancelled by the operator prior to the Government rulings which meant that the holiday insurance wouldn't pay out.
We had paid on credit card and this was the last resort as the tour operator were adamant they were only going to issue credit notes and most were in the last year so wouldn't be any good for following years, took just over 9 months to sort. We had to provide every bit of correspondence from the booking to the time we got the card company involved and then all the ongoing correspondence whilst we were trying to claim back. We had to provide insurance correspondence rejecting the claim. Evidence of it being her last year and also her bank statements to prove that she didn't have enough money to write it off.
They had even taken money for extras that they hadn't paid for at the time of cancellation which bumped the price up quite a bit.
Of all the ones she knew who were going on the trip we were the only ones who managed to get a refund.
Good luck if you decide to pursue it. It was hard work and a very drawn out process but worth it in the end.
All our holidays we just moved on and as yet haven't taken them but with this one her circumstances meant that it wasn't an option
I got caught out with losing my credit card rights due to using PayPal checkout option. I only ever use the family gift option for reimbursing friends, always opt for manually typing in my CC details on sites now
It’s a bit of a minefield but our LA paid out refunds to schools/parents. I say minefield as it was done as much on moral grounds as legal. With LA then trying to pursue refunds/insurers but they take risk not the parents.
Legally perhaps parents could have pursued the LA but not ideal scenario for anyone.
This is Scotland BTW.
May be worth going above school and direct to LA/councillors on this.
In interests of balance would also however ask did parents check insurance cover was adequate etc? Ok nobody could foresee c19 but I don’t think fair to land all this on school. Suspect plenty of folk
With personal trips lost out too and have had to suck it up.
Thanks for the advice. Things have moved quickly. I spoke to the school, who spoke to the council bod that deals with insurance who confirmed that refunds will be paid. It would appear that the teacher that stated that no refunds would be forthcoming was acting without following all the relevant procedures. Refunds by Xmas apparently.
Thanks again all.
Having been there as the Teacher responsible for this - due to travel to Italy the weekend after the 1st lockdown started - all I can say is it was an absolute nightmare. Fully put through the mill by tour operators & eventually by insurance. I understood their plight, but my priority is my kids and their families. Eventually I received a full refund minus £25 per person and the Local Authority insurance covered this. Normal paperwork for school trips can be unrewarding, but this was another level.
Then actually getting the money back to families... Unbelievable bureaucracy. No one could tell me if the refund payment had been issued, or deposited, or cleared. Then I couldn't get the refund cheques signed during lockdown (who wants a CHEQUE at any time, let alone during lockdown). A fully backward system. Never again.
Having been there as the Teacher responsible for this – due to travel to Italy the weekend after the 1st lockdown started – all I can say is it was an absolute nightmare.
I can imagine and not as if you didn't already have a day job!
I can imagine and not as if you didn’t already have a day job!
Yeah, but he gets all summer off, so y'know....
*ducks, runs for cover.
In interests of balance would also however ask did parents check insurance cover was adequate etc? Ok nobody could foresee c19 but I don’t think fair to land all this on school.
well I think that would depend on whether the school highlighted the risks of losing money through cancellations, e.g. airline goes bust, volcanic eruption stops travel, terrorist incident closes air space for days, the school teachers leading the trip are sick/suspended etc. All issues schools (and the authorities that advise them) must have encountered in the last 20 yrs so, and therefore risks worth highlighting.
Like bri-72 we got money back from LA (although it was an inter-schools trip so organised by the LA rather than just one school). Like troutwrestler - it was a cheque in the middle of lockdown when the banks were closed, and they addressed it to the pupil not the parent who had paid! (Given it was paid by an online system you'd think it could be refunded the same way).
Glad to hear the OP is sorted now.