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At work Ive been offered the chance to go out to Saudi for 3 years to work tax free.
Pro's - money obviously is a big pro. there is scope to earn upto £50k a year tax free.
Con's - I would only get to come home for 2-3 weeks every 12 weeks.
The bif one for me and its what holding me back at the moment is my kids, they are 8 and 10 so thrre years is a big portion out of the their lives and at a time where education is going to become quite important for them especailly the eldest as he will be chosing his GCSE's.
Anyone ever done it ?
What would you do ?
I wouldn't for the reason you give - kids (tho I don't have any)
It also sounds a bit crap out there!
No no and thrice no
Only £50k? not a chance.
£50k a year tax free.
nothing like enough to compensate for 3 yrs of shit.
Married, two kids? Id not consider it for less than £200kpa
Would I do it for £50k? No - and you say "up to"
Would I do it for 3 years? No
Compound living and sitting round with a bunch of over paid ex pats?
PigfaceNo no and thrice no
+3
I dont particularly want to do this my self.
But I have friends who have.
I would of assumed they were getting closer to £100,000 a year.
Doesnt seem worth it for £50,000.
Dont forget if you have a wife they may be unlikely to work unless they can do something on the base.
£50k is no money for working there.
I wouldn't do it for 5 times that. You can't buy time, especially with kids.
iolo - Member£50k is no money for working there.
Yup, think that might be the crappest Saudi deal I've heard of.
You could probably go and be comfortable at first, but after a while you'll find that things don't quite fit the way you want....
Not with kids that age, no way.
you'd probably be the lowest paid expat in your compound.
doubt the rest would even talk to you 🙂
As above, absolutely not.
Being a part of my kids lives is far more important than money
i have friends who did UAE for less than that,
however they got house, car & food allowance + a %ge increase on UK salary.
It effectively meant they could save their UK salary. Significant house deposits in 2 years whereas in the UK they would have struggled to save a small deposit.
They hated it though...
So have any of those saying no actually done it or even had the chance to do so?
I did two years out there from 2006 to 2007. My kids were 6 and 2 at the time so not that bad. Yes I missed the kids and could have stayed out there longer if the company hadnt screwed up and not been able to get the family out there in the timescales agreed.
Yes I was there at the time of the bombs etc, as for doing for 50k a year at the moment I wouldnt think about it as there are better opportunities for me elsewhere.
What you have to remember is that you can not all of that time off in the UK as you are only allowed to be in the country for a short of time each year in order to keep your salary tax free. You will be only be tax free after the first six months or so!! You will still need to pay your NI if you want to get a state pension (for whats it worth) when you retire.
Are they paying for your flights, visas etc? Remember you need an exit visa to leave the country and have to hand your passport in to get your Saudi ID (Iqama) card. Driving is a pain in the arse and is not for the faint hearted.
My sister moved to work in hong kong in feb of this year for 3 years.
She left husband and son (11) here. So far they seem to be doing ok. They've been over there for 2 weeks at easter and she came back here for 2 weeks at the end of May. BIL and nephew go over again in a couple of weeks for 3 weeks then sister is back again at there end of august. She's now in a quite senior position within a major uk retailer and as such has to come back here fairly regularly anyway. They also give them a massive allowance towards getting them all together. To be honest she was away a lot when she was here and often had to stay away or got caught up while commuting so it has settled them all down a bit because the BIL knows she's not actually coming home so they're not left waiting around.
I couldn't do it but we are quite different people. She is very career minded and always has been. I speak to her more now she's over there than i did when she was 10 miles up the road.
50K? definitely not
You can't buy time, especially with kids.
This^
My Dad was in the Merchant Navy and I hardly saw him as me being in a boarding school compounded the problem. He unfortunately died young at sea. We missed him and him us.
I wouldn't do it personally. Money isn't everything. Time away from your loved one's is a killer. I know I spent 10 years of my life at sea when I was younger and it sucked.
But all the best with whatever decision you make.
Personally not a chance for 50k , a mate just about tolerates working there for 150k plus return flights and use of an apartment in the UAE .
Erm, that £50k is some sort of retention bonus isn't it? The salaries clearly more like £200kpa shirley...
At least it ought to be....
And No, it's a bit shite out there. Way harder and Hotter than hell which makes going out in the PM/Eves a proper hard time. Ok so occasionally you'll see the Sun but my oh my you will want to be indoors most of the time like everyone else.. Why do yo think there are so may Malls there.
I have a mate who runs a large Marina in Quatar and whilst he loves what he does no end, the pay is £150kpa and he spends 50% of his time outdoors and the the other 50% dealing in back handers to get things done.
He's out there for a few years to earn money but it's by no means easy.. A gold gravy train it ain't.
And..
And you have Kids.
Think very long and very hard before committing.
No.
No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No .
Not sure what of work you're in but 50k a year doesn't sound much for an ex-pat package - certainly not enough for me to write off 3 years of my life in Saudi.
Disrupt my life up for £50k a year? No.
Spend that amount of time away from your kids?
For £50K?
And you're even contemplating it? 😯
Aren't you RAF, Renton?
An armourer, or similar? Or have you left?
If it's in the military I'd be more concerned about supporting the government there.
I was in Saudi way back in 1980 and the situation was far better in those days. My salary as a young single bloke was equivalent to about £65k these days, plus accommodation and flights (though that's normal), so I certainly wouldn't be going for £50k now and given the way things are in the Middle East probably not at all.
Conditions in UAE are far more civilised than Saudi so I wouldn't expect pay to be as good there.
I don't know if things have changed but in my day you had to be working overseas for 12 months to avoid tax and were allowed 90 days home in any 12 month period.
No way o! I would certainly not uproot my family and disrupt my kids' education for £50k!
If it was somewhere relaxed with a benign environment like New Zealand or Canada I might think about it but not that sweltering dump infested with the world's most disgraceful hypocrites.
As a child of a parent who worked in the Persian Gulf when I was that age, I'd say don't do it.
My dad had the good life in the UAE, which is more of a party than Saudi. My mate's dad went to Saudi and stuck it out for a couple of years, came home and got divorced. His daughter doesn't speak to him.
My dad stayed out 10+ years for the money and got divorced. I haven't had a relationship with him for over twenty years.
I'm sure there are plenty who can survive the experience intact, I wouldn't bother for that sort of money when you can get it in the UK.
Plenty of opportunities within my company, and my wider industry (Engineering)
For £50k I'd not even think about it - £200k is probably more realistic.
I've also got little kids and wouldn't want to miss the time with them.
So it is a no from me.
Is that £50k pa the salary or how much you think you'd be having after all costs etc?
If the former, then it really depends on what you earn now.
If the latter (and working out first how much you'd have if you didn't go), then walking away with £150k after 3 years (and still getting home for 2-3 weeks every 12 weeks) - doesn't sound that bad a deal.
Not that I'd take it, not enough money plus regime isn't one I'd like to be involved in.
And I'm assuming you'll go alone.
Yup, think that might be the crappest Saudi deal I've heard of.
Yep sounds very low. Basically three years bored shitless in a compound with expats earning 3x your wage, missing your family.
I was chatting to a guy last week who was considering the same move but for £200-300k, as a final few years work before retiring early. He was undecided at that salary never mind 50k!
Aren't you RAF, Renton? An armourer, or similar? Or have you left?
Yep Im still in the RAF.
Its a 3 year secondment to BAE systems working on Typhoon.
The £50k a year is what blokes are earning out there now.
I earn about £34k a year no before tax with no scope for overtime so its quite abit more pay.
I agree about the living on a compound being shit etc, I did 3 tours of Afghanistan and that was the same.
Plus no MTB'ing !!
A few years ago (I think it was 2010) I was offered a job that paid 50% more than I was earning and I was about to accept when they mentioned that in addition to 1 week a month in Germany (not a big deal) that I'd need to install the code we were writing 'in the field'. As the software was for military use I asked what 'in the field' meant and I was then told it was to go to Camp Bastion and install/monitor the software for 1 week every quarter.
I then asked the obvious i.e. "how safe is it" to which the reply was 'very, no real issues and we'll pay you a tax free bonus every day you're at Camp Bastion and an enhanced bonus when you're at the forward stations".
At this point I asked them to be 100% frank and it turned out that of the week 2 days were at Camp Bastion and 5 days were at various front line command posts travelling by armoured car between them. At this point I turned it down.
Just out of curiosity I asked what the daily bonus was, it was £1k a day at Camp Bastion and £3k a day at the command posts! Still turned it down!
50k - no way. Saudi is a sh*thole.
Interesting... is the secondment with BAE?
Only reason I ask is BAE are basically my paymasters (although I work for a subcontractor) and I know there are opportunities with BAE in my industry in Bahrain and Oman at the moment.
I had a mate who was in Bahrain, had to leg it when it all kicked off in 2010/11. Had a hell of a time getting out of the country. Brought one of his sons back to UK and then went back for his wife and the other kids. His youngest had been born the previous November and at that point had no passport - was very difficult getting her out - limited help from the Embassy too! Not fun and more than a little bit stressful.
Also bear in mind that suicide attacks have been increasing in Saudi and as the partnership 'protection/peacekeeping for oil' deal between US and Saudi is coming to an end, I wouldn't expect Middle East to be a peaceful place anytime soon - but you'll know more than me about that!
Plus your wife will have no kind of life out there.
For a 30% increase on current salary I'd say there's no way that's a worthwhile premium...
Always ask yourself why a job pays well - would they need to if it was desirable in and of itself?
Freeagent... yep thats right.
So basically 12 on 2/3 off? Even the worst FIFO here in Oz get better than that. Honestly it's going to be crap and it sounds like they are exploiting the fact that they can get you on the cheap from the RAF, the BAE guys will be raking in a fir bit more than that.
This should give you an idea what the rest are on [url= http://www.seek.com.au/jobs/in-middle-east-africa/#dateRange=999&workType=0&industry=&occupation=&graduateSearch=false&salaryFrom=100000&salaryTo=120000&salaryType=annual&advertiserID=&advertiserGroup=&keywords=&page=1&displaySuburb=&seoSuburb=&isAreaUnspecified=false&location=5147&area=&nation=&sortMode=ListedDate&searchFrom=filters&searchType= ]Seek Jobs[/url]
Plus your wife will have no kind of life out there
my wife and kids wouldnt be going !! just me.
Mikewsmith... i know guys out there for BAE direct and its the same pay.
50k?
Not even worth starting a thread about it, let alone thinking about it!
@renton £50k seriously that's appalling for Saudi - NFW. I'd expect more in Bahrain and Oman too. FWIW I love Oman have spent a few holidays there, not sure how it would be for working as it would feel very small. Bahrain I have spent a lot of time in too.
What trades are people doing out there to earn £200k a year??
Plus no MTB'ing !!
Oh yes there is!
Rad! Gnarrr!
Thats £50k tax free so equivelant of roughly £70K in uk.
I've been offered 2 jobs in Saudi in the last 6 months. Both were over £100k with all of the benefits of flights home, etc. No package to move the family over, and no way would I want to even if there was. Both were long, open ended contracts.
My boys are 17 and 12. Not a chance I'd leave them just for money. However much it was.
So no, no, no.
who was that with bigblackshed
What others have said, it'd be industry dependant but even TEFL must be on that in Saudi?
Most Middle east contacts I've been offered/seen are on a married basis, so they pay very well (1.5 to 2x UK pay before tax, and there's obviously no tax) plus bonuses, and everything (accommodation, food, car) is expensed and your family comes with you and lives in the compound.
I don't know how much is putting on a brave face, but I'd not say people hate it, they do it for the money, but it's usually 50-60hr weeks so the reality is they don't have time to get miffed with the weather or go outside anyway. Most do it to save big deposit very quickly, others get n+1 on their buy-to-let portfolio so pretty much sort their pension by doing 1 year in 10 somewhere rubbish.
Dubai - maybe, there is mountainbiking on the Oman border
Oman - see above, there are mountains and it is cool enough in places/times to go out for a ride.
Abu Dhabi - maybe, allegedly a bit more culture than Dubai which is just shopping malls and big money.
Saudi - it'd be for the money, it'd be 12months and 2 days, and it would cover a tax year.
Anything in engineering with more than 10-15 years experience. It's pretty much take the UK salary and double it and add expenses. Also depends on the contract, going on an assignment with a company you work for as staff will be a lot less than finding a contract yourself.What trades are people doing out there to earn £200k a year??
who was that with bigblackshed
Sounds like you've made your mind up.
Good luck.
For that money, BAE are still humping you.
If you are leaving, get properly working on your resettlement and make the most of it. Don't be a typical resettler and gaff it off then end up outside the camp gates, blinking and wondering what to do next.
What trades are people doing out there to earn £200k a year??
he is a senior process engineer
TooTall ..... Im not leaving yet, got 5 years to my 22 point.
Ive not made my mind up but am swaying more to the no side.
Oh yes there is!
😆
That's got to be up there with that Sherwood vid.
Then you'd be insane to leave before your 22 and all that entails. You need to start on your 5 year exit plan now.
know a mine engineer who was tossing up middle east and a few others I think market rate was about £800/day plus everything paid for
Petro-chemical companies, in the plastics sector, hands on polymer R&D.
I would only get to come home for 2-3 weeks every 12 weeks
That seemed pretty generous to me but then I saw you have kids.
You know those ****y things you see on Facebook about love, children, partners etc? They usually have a photo of a candle and you ignore them straight away as it is just some soppy person sharing guff. I saw one the other day which said the best thing you can do for your kids is spend half the amount of money on them but spend twice as much time with them instead.
That makes sense to me and I think you would, in the future, regret spending too much time away from your kids.
50k? To go there? You're off your head.
Add a 1 or 2 in front of it, and perhaps it's worth considering.
Renton. If you ever find a bloke who can honestly say he spent too much time with his kids growing up, let me know. I've not met one yet, and I've met an awful lot who would wish they hadn't been away quite so much.
@renton did you read the other threads on Saudi ? I posted there a bit as I've visited the place for work over the past 25 years including at some stressed times. Some good friends of mine where in the compound attacked by suicide bombers, they hid under the stairs as other guys came in shot up the apartments. They left as soon as they could. I've also attended a talk by Frank Gardner of the BBC who was shot and paralysed whilst getting money out of the ATM. The security situation there is worse than it's ever been.
Offering £50k is an insult
TooTall its a 3 year secondment so I would come back to the raf for my last two years !
My kids are the biggest holdback for me !!
I asked a [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/anyone-worked-in-saudi-arabia ]similar question[/url] a while back.
£50k seems low for SA.
The package I had floating around was five times that.
It [i]still[/i] hasn't been filled, so that may tell you something.
as many others have said, 50k seems low. Presuming this isn't a massive hike from your current salary, what you're actually talking about is doing it for the tax.
That means that vs a job on similar money at home with your kids, you're looking at an extra 9 and a bit grand a year (plus the difference in salary)i.e. presuming you are on 50k here, a total for the three years of 28/30k minus whatever extra cost you have. Trust me, as someone who tours for a job, no matter how much it is claimed that your expenses are covered, you will have to spend money on stuff that you wouldn't have to at home.
Cant say it would be enough to convince me. It would have to be an income that would change our lives as a family to convince me to change our family life (if that makes sense.
My take home pay here after paying for my married quarter etc is £1800 a month.
out there I would be taking home £3500 a month plus any overtime I get.
My take home pay here after paying for my married quarter etc is £1800 a month.out there I would be taking home £3500 a month plus any overtime I get.
Yep, that is great and your wife and kids will have more money, but they won't have you!
We have some older friends who are currently selling [url= http://goo.gl/H7AzI5 ]their US winter home[/url] which was effectively paid for by a Saudi military contract.
Granted they're very good with their money but I think that that was tops, a couple of year's worth of work.
Being military it sounds like you're used to limited home comforts but £50K still sounds like their pulling your trousers down.
Really, don't do it.
You'll never get that time with your children back.
I've worked in the middle east a few times over the past 3 years for short stints, a week or so at a time (though not in Saudi).
I'd not go for 3 months, let alone 3 years.
Its not 12 months away before you can go tax free, its a full April to April tax year so if you go out now you'd have to do almost two full years away to qualify. You can actually get NT straight away but if you don't stick it out you'll be landed with a tax bill when you come home. You can stop paying NI after 52 weeks away if you want to. Weigh up how long you'll be working for in the UK as you only need 25 years contributions I think it is for your pension so no point paying it if you can avoid it as you can't opt out when you are in the UK.
I did nearly three years in Afghanistan which wasn't a drama as I have no kids! Everything was paid for us (flights, food, accommodation, uniform etc).
renton - MemberMy take home pay here after paying for my married quarter etc is £1800 a month.
out there I would be taking home £3500 a month plus any overtime I get.
Will they get to stay in quarters when you're working for a civvie outfit?
as flaps says, your family might have more spending money, but it's not the kind of money that will give you opportunities when your 3yrs is over.
After 3 yrs you want the kind of stash that allows you to pay off the mortgage and take a couple of years off/part time work for you, your family & your soul to recover. Or sort out an early retirement income stream etc.
I was over there with BAE and they treat staff like shit. A lot of the positions are being handed over to the Saudi's so wouldn't be surprised if you ended up doing less than the three years.
Id say no,
My dad worked for BAE in Saudi for roughly 16 years. My mum went with him which left myself and 2 brothers here. One at college 2 in forces. Id say as a whole we are not the closest family due to everyone having to be so independent due to only seeing each other 3-4 times a year. I think the money incentives will never outweigh negatives of lost time with the kids.
I would only get to come home for 2-3 weeks every 12 weeks
With that amount of time in the UK how would you manage to avoid paying income tax?
Besides, as everyone is saying, it's a shithole. £50k a year for Saudi is nonsense.
I would assume a skilled fitter working for BAE in UK civi street could earn that easily?
I would assume a skilled fitter working for BAE in UK civi street could earn that easily?
You'd be miles off the mark
EDIT: unless they're ploughing in some serious OT or shift-work
You'd be miles off the mark
Really!
So what's is their ballpark?
Glassdoor says 25K
http://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/BAE-Systems-UK-Fitter-Salaries-E3102_D_KO15,21.htm
Saudi rate should be 100K as most jobs seem to be 4x salary. Absolutely no way I would do it, life's too short.
I know a few people who have worked over there and they all hate Saudi's now as they are arrogant ****s
Really!So what's is their ballpark?
Well yeah, the salary Renton quoted for himself is pretty much where they get to (bit more in the South East I'd imagine/hope).
Engineers aren't getting £50k in this industry
I know nothing about Saudi etc.
However you are contemplating leaving your wife & kids for 3 years to get yourself an additional £1700 per month ??
Madness.
An increase in £1700 per month doesnt actually get you that much in life, maybe a slightly nicer car, shop at Waitrose, etc.
Not if extra to pay off the mortgage.
Whats the real reason you want to go for, because it almost sounds like you are desparate to get away from the family
91 days a year in the UK is the limit (averaged over three years I think it is).