[Closed] 'Champagne Socialism' or absolute belief?

You mean she has a surplus property and she hasn't offered it to the refugees? How very dare she. 🙂

Socialism does not require one to take a vow of poverty.

I think half the people who are vocal about Corbyn/Socialism etc. have no real interest/care/clue/understanding of him/it. They just do it because their peers are.

Outside of Facebook/Social Media, you'd never catch them having a conversation/thinking about it

Western Socialism innit.

I actually think if Jeremy Corbyn bought a 29er the whole internet would disappear into a black hole shaped like an anus...

Wee Nic and her SNP style of "democracy" is my current wranckle.

Agree with us "or else". The SNP way or no way/is the only way!! Sounding more cult like every day.......

Seems to be a lot of this style/type of attitude prevailing atm, even at work 🙄

Agree with us "or else". The SNP way or no way/is the only way!! Sounding more cult like every day.......

I've not been looking at the political news for a while. What have they been upto now?

That's the beauty of socialism. It's other people's money that you're spending. 🙂

OP, you are working on the presumption that socialism is a race to the bottom to find equality. It isn't. There's is nothing wrong in having prospered personally but wishing to live in a society which makes a greater priority of looking after it's most disadvantaged. In fact, wishing for higher taxation of the wealthy to the help those in need if you are one of those that would face the higher tax could be said to be a more laudable position than wishing it on someone else so you can personally benefit.

Also, although others will disagree, being a true socialist doesn't mean you have to have had a frontal lobotomy and lost the ability to differentiate the true value of a commodity (in this case, her house).

We aren't always consistent with our actions and words. So what?

It's a greater a problem for society we were sold on trickle-down twaddle, which as an entrenched form of hypocrisy has done far more damage than a confused individual ever will.

People see socialism in the same way they see traffic. Even when you're stuck in the jam, you're still thinking of traffic as everyone else but you.

Socialist dont have to be poor and trolls dont have to be so obvious.

It changes at the point one cares more about money than people

Hope the investment country property went ok for you

OP, you are working on the presumption that socialism is a race to the bottom to find equality. It isn't. There's is nothing wrong in having prospered personally but wishing to live in a society which makes a greater priority of looking after it's most disadvantaged. In fact, wishing for higher taxation of the wealthy to the help those in need if you are one of those that would face the higher tax could be said to be a more laudable position than wishing it on someone else so you can personally benefit.

This x1000

the tag of 'champagne socialist' has become a handy stick for the right to beat anyone who wants to wants to improve the lot of the poor. The argument goes that if you're not living in a ditch eating mice and gruel then you're a hypocrite for suggesting other people shouldn't have to either.

clearly, this argument doesn't stand up to much scrutiny.

That's the beauty of socialism. It's other people's money that you're spending.

I think Capitalism has done okay out of other people's money too.

isn't the NHS , state pension and free school socialism , nobody minds those things.

Most previously labour lottery winners vote conservative after winning i read once

Onzadog - thank you for a clear post
. Maybe I've not read/ drunk enough, but as I said from the start - this was a plea for clarification, so I can only say to all of you that have been kind enough to post; make the most out of your private house sale; socialist or not?

What is the opposite of a "champagne socialist" I wonder?

Homebrew Capitalist maybe?

make the most out of your private house sale; socialist or not?

It's got nothing to do with it. As I and several others have already said you don't need to be poor to be a socialist.

Socialist/communist/capitalist/dictatorship/monarchy whatever all have one thing in common.

They are all elites residing at the top of hierarchy in the society while majority of the people are treated as scums ... unless you are in the inner circle of course.

😯

make the most out of your private house sale; socialist or not?

Most previously labour lottery winners vote conservative after winning i read once

Oft quoted - don't really know if it's true or not but it wouldn't surprise me. Far from turning people into philanthropists, a sudden large injection of liquid cash would turn most people into paranoid, greedy, self-centred sociopaths (I wouldn't even trust myself tbh). And as such, they'd have turned into natural Tories.

Honestly. Honestly, seriously guys, this was a genuine query - simple question, how can you equate a plea to 'give your home and all you've got' Facebook message to 'got an offer and turned it down. Too low [sic]

i read it on the internet so it must be true 😆 , when i got a lum sum 10yrs ago my first thought was a new cbr600rr

'give your home and all you've got' Facebook message

Now you are just making it up 😉

Want to get a screen shot of that and post it up?

Unless you mean metaphorically said that, in which case I suspect your comprehension skills might need a polish.

Socialism is not communism.

Communists would have all of us work entirely for each other - you work for the state, and it gives everyone the same salary regardless, and you aren't allowed to profit.

Socialism just aims to spread the money about a bit, instead of letting fat cats pocket it all. Wikipedia says socialism is characterised by social ownership, which it defines thus:

Social ownership encompasses the various forms of ownership of the means of production for socialist economic systems. It encompasses public ownership, employee ownership, citizen ownership of equity, and common ownership.

Public ownership is only one of the options.

So it's perfectly possible to be a socialist and be interested in money. If she starts whingeing about stamp duty though - then you've got her 🙂

your comprehension skills might need a polish.

Coming over here and teaching us comprehension are they

Oh and please dont get your understanding of socialism from Molly he is well meaning but not that well informed

>>>>Agree with us "or else". The SNP way or no way/is the only way!! Sounding more cult like every day.......
I've not been looking at the political news for a while. What have they been upto now?

Junkyard: I'm afraid I don't know how to do the quote thing to put your comments into a box. I suppose that means I haven't got the capacity to understand your post in respect (now, there's a word) to how it relates to my completely politically indifferent perspective. Can YOU explain how someone who wants fiscal equality can then turn down a viable bid

exactly somehow people have conflated communism with socialism

as said the NHS, state pensions, free education for all children etc etc are all examples of socialism that we'd all agree are worthy

turn down a viable bid

You know that, or are you presuming?

Oh and please dont get your understanding of socialism from Molly he is well meaning but not that well informed

Hehe.

Socialism has a pretty wide range of definitions, which is why I think people end up arguing about it.

Can YOU explain how someone who wants fiscal equality can then turn down a viable bid

This woman wants everyone to have the same amount of money - is that what you mean?

molgrips - Member

Socialism is not communism.

The former is the lite version of the latter ... 😆

Coz the latter would make it rather hard to stomach if people suddenly become full-fledged communists so a lite version was invented to bridge the gap. Marx is laughing at you and see you coming ... 😆

OK, I'll take it: please explain your version/ hope of a 'viable bid'.

And I reiterate,thanks STW;.my post was indescrimanate, your responses was...woaaah

Can YOU explain how someone who wants fiscal equality can then turn down a viable bid

Forgive me

anyway how is the investment property going?

Are you asking us if she's a hypocrite or not?

If so, probably. Most people are to a certain degree, but I don't think wanting a fair price for your asset is necessarily hypocritical, even if she does believe we should give the less well off more of a leg up.

The fact that she has a holiday home taking the roof from over rural workers heads means she's a total bitch though.

Bex, I am looking for a discussion on this even if the others are taking the piss. And excuse Junkyard's turn of phrase he's not actually as angry as he sounds.

GrahamS - Member
What is the opposite of a "champagne socialist" I wonder?

Nigel Farage?

...he's not actually as angry as he sounds.

Isn't he?

Junkyard...you big fat socialist knob. (That might get him going.)

FAT

Now i am livid
Flounces off to seek solace in a chocolate bar

Excuse Junkyard's turn of phrase he's not actually as angry as he sounds.

Sorry, I've got to get up early tomorrow (5.45 for you purists)

She can be a socialist but want the best price for her house. Not that different from a trade union represtative like Bob Crow who made £100k and lived in subsidised housing whilst at the same time negotiating the most he could for his members and calling strikes.

As for comparisons between Socilaism and Communisim that is hardly a system of equality, just look at the old CCCP and China today, some are much more equal than others

OK, I'll take it: please explain your version/ hope of a 'viable bid'.

And I reiterate,thanks STW;.my post was indescrimanate, your responses was...woaaah

viable bid - close the price it would cost to replace it with similar would be a good place to start. She has a bid - could be for a pound for all you/I know.

I really don't think you have had a negative 'woaah' response - just folk who have not agreed with your supposition. Some quite eloquently. The nature of your follow up posts clearly shows you have a relatively fixed opinion about this; I suspect you were not really looking for reasoned arguments to win you over; just a little confirmation.

Anyway - is it a second home? Not sure it matters, and you have not stated it is, but others have assumed.

he lived in a three-bedroom council house in Woodford Green, East London, but some newspapers criticised him for doing so whilst receiving a high salary. He defended his actions, asserting that "I was born in a council house, as far as I'm concerned I will die in one."[11][36] Although he was entitled to buy his house at a discount as a result of changes introduced by Margaret Thatcher's government, he refused, asserting his belief that "social housing stock should remain available for future generations"

Why is this so bad?

I can only assume if he had "sold out" and bought something aspirational you tories would use that against him

Cheap lazy slur

is it a second home? Not sure it matters, and you have not stated it is, but others have assumed.

Crow who made £100k and lived in subsidised housing whilst at the same time negotiating the most he could for his members and calling strikes.

More of your snide smears. With the kind of money he made for his members, Crow wasn't earning anywhere near enough. Of course, it's been shown time and time again here on STW that it's the politics of envy from the likes of you that mere train drivers and are allowed to work in a safe environment earn decent money. How much does a Tesco checkout supervisor earn? How much does the CEO of Tesco earn?

The former is the lite version of the latter ...

Not really, no.

my father is a dyed in the wool champagne socialist.. born so poor they lived in a cottage with no roof high on the lake district fells and when his father died they lived in another families cellar.. now he is a very prosperous octagenarien his sister is a multi millionaire they are at the moment cruising the med before returning to their villa in The baleriacs.. he is and always has been the most staunch Labour party voter i have ever met he has always read the daily mirror and worships Tony Blair but he d never give to charity or other good causes unless they touched him personally. He expects his state pension and associated benifits to continue regardless of his personal wealth/circumstances

Junkyard; WTF; actually use the gifts you received via Western education and READ what's been written. This was about THEM not YOU

He expects his state pension and associated benifits to continue regardless of his personal wealth/circumstances

I hope he's paying his taxes.

[quote=bex opined]Junkyard; WTF; actually use the gifts you received via Western education and READ what's been written. This was about THEM not YOU

Chuckles at the irony - that post is about me isnt it 😉
My western education was delivered in a socialist model ...oh the horror

Champagne? Might help you sleep?

jamj1974 - Member

The former is the lite version of the latter ...

Not really, no.

Yes, really, yes. 😛

deadlydarcy - Member
How much does a Tesco checkout supervisor earn? How much does the CEO of Tesco earn?

What is the top limit for cashier?

What's with this phrase "checkout supervisor"?
Who are they supervising?
If they are all supervisors then who are doing the donkey works? The customers?
I like inflated title me ... 😆

Yes, CEO is paid too much ...

He defended his actions, asserting that "I was born in a council house, as far as I'm concerned I will die in one."[11][36] Although he was entitled to buy his house at a discount as a result of changes introduced by Margaret Thatcher's government, he refused, asserting his belief that "social housing stock should remain available for future generations"

Refer you all back to the original.

-)

Yet has now posted a link to the sale of her cottage and has claimed 'had one offer already. Turned down, too low'.

This is a difficult one to answer as so much vital information is missing.

What was the asking price and how much was the offer she turned down ?

BTW in the English language cottage means "small house" not stately home.

Teamhurtmore - Member

Agree with us "or else". The SNP way or no way/is the only way!! Sounding more cult like every day.......

Aye, like today when they... er... got behind a bill put forward by Labour to pass the BSL (Scotland) bill? I can see why that inspired you to randomly post anti-SNP bile in a thread about something else. 😆 Meanwhile it remains Labour policy to oppose SNP motions "on principle" even when they agree with them and subsequently end up tabling identical motions themselves.

I wouldn't usually respond to your trolling but this one was funny.

I suspect you were not really looking for reasoned arguments to win you over; just a little confirmation.

Think you're right convert.

Bex - The forum says 'not a hypocrite on the original charge'. If you don't agree then I think you need to refine your understanding of socialism.

NW - where did you drag that up from and what is/was the relevance?

All this talk of socialism demonstrates the state of politics, and political education in the UK. The Tories aren't centralist, they are right wing (some have argued they are more extreme than Thatcher). But the media don't portray it like that so anything left of centre is seen as far left and labelled socialist.

refine your understanding of socialism

This might help: [img] [/img]

[url= ]Link[/url]

That poster is a right wing spin of comparison.

'...I like toast as much as any man, but not for breakfast, dinner and tea'.

I've always thought of a champagne socialist as someone who, for example, says that nobody should have to pay to get a good education and the government shouldn't be dominated by the public school elite, and then sends their kids to a fee-paying school.

Someone will have a go at me now........

champagne socialist is just attack terminology deployed by the right wing when they can't fight the substance of a debate. It is used against people who have succeeded in the capitalist system but still care about people.

anyway - we are all Prosecco socialists now down south... 🙂

Genuinely perplexed by this thread. The OP seems jealous and annoyed and confused by her friend.

Why should she sell her house for less than she thinks it is worth? Having left wing beliefs doesn't mean having to give away all your posessions to the first person who comes along. Getting the maximum you can for your house doesn't preclude being charitable in other things. 😕

I prefer Lidl Cava to champagne. Now that Lidl have committed to paying the living wage, does that make me a faux champagne socialist?

As a student I rented a room from a couple of socialist teachers who told me they didn't declare my rent and pay the tax, wish I'd questioned them a bit about that really.

[quote=mudshark said]As a student I rented a room from a couple of socialist teachers who told me they didn't declare my rent and pay the tax, wish I'd questioned them a bit about that really.

They were subverting the system brother.

If you've "succeeded in the capitalist system", doesn't that make you a capitalist?

Does going for a swim make you a fish?

🙄

Surely the very living embodiment of champagne socialism....

[img] [/img]

Firmly believes in the principles of the comprehensive education system. For other peoples kids. Her own will be going to an expensive private school, naturally.

Good to see you back on the front bench Diane 🙄

I think that wanting the best education for your own kids and making commitments to make it happen in the current system, doesn't stop a person from supporting increasing spending and wider policies to create an educational system that provides the best for all children, and is why "champaign socialism" is a worthless smear.

OP ... presuming this is the sale of a second home... your "friend" will have a health capital gains tax bill to pay.

So ask her a loaded question... something along the lines of.

"Ouch !! Bet the tax bill will be enough the make your eyes water"

If she comes back with something like "yeah bl00dy taxman" ... you've got her bang to rights.

If she reponses with "I'm socially responsible and happy to pay it" ... you can now live safe in the knowledge that all her FB posts/rants are genuine.

I think that wanting the best education for your own kids and making commitments to make it happen in the current system, doesn't stop a person from supporting increasing spending and wider policies to create an educational system that provides the best for all children, and is why "champaign socialism" is a worthless smear.

Yep.... nothing firmly states your whole-hearted support for a core party principle than opting out of it yourself, in favour of an alternative only accessable to a tiny minority of the people you claim to represent.

Do you have to sacrifice your children's future to prove that you think a system is flawed?
That would seem to be exacerbating the problem, and is a very old testament solution..

As for the OP.. You're possibly looking for a fight with your friend where perhaps there isn't a fight to have.. You should definitely be exploring your motives and maybe even questioning your friendship

I think that wanting the best education for your own kids and making commitments to make it happen in the current system,

We all want the best for our kids however when your whole life/political career is centred around the ethics of Socialism then you really ought to adhere to the basics, comprehensive education and the NHS being the basics.

As for the OP.. You're possibly liking for a fight with your friend where perhaps there isn't a fight to have.. You should definitely be exploring your motives and maybe even questioning your friendship

thread closed...

Do you have to sacrifice your children's future

If you regard the system your party created, and holds up as a core principle as "sacrificing your children's future" then maybe you should consider your position

Yeah I really hate champagne socialists.....almost as much as all those free market capitalists who every time something doesn't go their way wail that the government should 'do something about it'.

@deadlarcy Council / Housing association property should be means tested on a regular basis. It was ridiculous Bob Crow took up a valuable asset in short supply when he could easily afford to buy his own property or rent in the private sector. He's the perfect example of a "Socilaist" on the take, in contrast of the lady in the OPs post who is just selling her property at the best price as would anyone.