Challenging distance selling cooling off period - car

I have decided that I wish to.............?

What's actually wrong with the car? Was it not as described or faulty in some way you were not aware of?

That's the starting point really.

What’s up with the car that means it’s no good?

Or did you just want to borrow it for 5 days

"I have decided that I wish to………….?!" sorry was a typo

wasnt for a five day use, it wont fit in the garage, too tall. Its VW caddy not a transporter, therefore without it being in the garage the insurance is mental expensive.

The reality seems to be that a consumer doesnt actually have to give a reason, but I have given this reason to the seller.

The distance selling applies and it clearly states in the sellers T&C that this is part of the contract, it wsnt bespoke or personalised.

"6.2 Exercising your right to change your mind (Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013). This clause only applies if you are a consumer and placed an order online, email or via telephone. a. When you don't have the right to change your mind. You do not have a right to change your mind in respect of services once they have been completed or goods made to your bespoke specification or which are clearly personalised. b. How long do I have to change my mind? Have you bought goods (for example a vehicle)? if so you have 14 days after the day you (or someone you nominate) receive the goods."

Anything of use here?<br /><br /> https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights-aAnMC5b0ZzJb

If its a contractual term then its a contractual term tho if you collected it does that mean distance selling regs apply as yo had a chance to see it before taking possession?  I do not know

TJ - thanks - ill take a look.

It appears that the scenario is a distance sale - according to the motor ombudsman and other sources.

If I need to I can use the Ombudsman - by the looks of things - but likely to take time

Wishful thinking that’s its covered by distance selling when you picked it up in person. You may no longer want the car but you are out of luck with this approach.

wasnt for a five day use, it wont fit in the garage, too tall.

that is ruddy harsh on the retailer.  It may be legally your right but morally?  its as bad as those folk who order lots of clothes online then return them.

Surely it is on you to check whether said car will fit into your 'garage' and if you can afford to insure it before hand...

I'm not sure that will fly with DSR or the Obudsman.

The dealership may take it back if you are realy nice about it, for a price, but lol! just lol!

Why would you not check if it will fit before hand? due dilligence, etc... you could have taken a tape measure with you,  before buying it for example.

okay guys.

Thanks for the thoughts and comments. 

To cut to the chase..

I went to the dealership to collect the car.

DSR won't apply as you saw and inspected the car before finalising the purshase, that is the point at which you should have thought... 'ooh it's a bit bigger than it looked' before going through with the sale.

If you are stuck with it, would a different garage door be an option? Surely the actual opening is large enough, just that the door robs height? (Side opening, sectional on track etc).

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/

I think you're biggest issues are -

1 -Is you're not "rejecting" the car. It's not faulty.

2 - It  may not a distance sale. You collected it from the dealer. You had time to fully inspect, and establish suitability before you "used it".

As such, rejecting the car as a adequate, distance sale is probably not going to happen.

I think your best case for resolving the "buyers remorse" you have, is seeing if they can source something more suitable, and coming to a favourable deal.

I tried to post a cut and paste from Motor Ombudsman, but the format goes a bit messy.

it IS distance selling and their T&C's, whether it should be or shouldnt be is another discussion

Morally - I accept some comments from people. This was a first car purchase for me and life lesson and all that, maybe I best to take it on the chin and move on

Worst case I can WBAC it and cut my losses

There is no scope to get it to fit, its the garage door thats the issue. Its an Up and over door, with a concrete lip that kicks it up. The ceiling height of the garage internally is fine, just not at the door. Other than remove the door and replace with barn doors and that would make it too narrow.

I don't think it is distance selling. This ombudsman example seems to cver it.

"If I order and purchase a car online and collect it from the seller’s premises, can I still return the vehicle if I don’t like it?"

"In this scenario, your vehicle purchase would no longer be classed as a distance sale, as you have visited the seller’s premises in person when buying the car. Therefore, the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 will not apply.

You’re still protected by the Consumer Rights Act 2015, which gives you a 30-day right to a full refund if the car isn’t of satisfactory quality, is unfit for purpose or not as described. However, you can’t get a refund for the car just because you’ve changed your mind about it."

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/if-i-order-and-purchase-a-car-online-and-collect-it-from-the-sellers-premises-can-i-still-return-the-vehicle-if-i-dont-like-it

this also from the motor ombudsman

"If you’ve paid for the car in full, and taken delivery of it, you have 14 days to change your mind from when you receive the vehicle – again, you don’t have to give a reason for cancelling and the retailer must give you a full refund"

and

" If you visit the retailer’s premises at any time during the sales process, so for example, when paying your deposit or signing your paperwork, this no longer counts as a distance sale. Therefore, you won’t have a cancellation period and your usual consumer rights will apply."

all payment was done remotely/electronically as were all signing of documents

Whatever, man..the seller didn't do anything wrong from what you have said...

If it was a genuine error of judgement on your part, then I would politley ask the dealership to trade back for something smaller, or credit, but expect to take a bit of a hit on it for the hassle.

I wouldn't go in guns blazin' saying 'DSR this or Ombudsman that'.

Good luck!

remember:%20If%20you%20visit%20the%20retailer%E2%80%99s%20premises%20at%20any%20time%20during%20the%20sales%20process

erm. . . with some of the others. This doesn’t sound like a distance sale to me.

How much will the insurance increase by? Hardly anyone keeps their car in a garage these days, so I’m surprised you’re seeing such a reduction (also shop around of you haven’t done yet). Would be amazed if WBAC was a better option than paying for the insurance

Is it new or used Caddy?

You collected it from the vendor, this isn't distance selling. Pay the extra insurance or sell the car.

Matty - thanks, I havent mentioned the ombudsman or anything like that and all been cordial and polite both sides

RNP - its a second hand caddy

the difference in insurance is north of £1k per year if its not garaged and thats after using various comparing sites.

WBAC is looking at being  less than a £2k loss, which while isnt negligible, is likely the solution in the big picture

The distance selling is one part its also their T&C and 100% agree the seller has done nothing wrong, apart form have it in their T&C's and not comply with it. As I said, morally I agree.

Just im kinda ****ed, hopefully ill end up being slightly less ****ed with a quick sale

Geninely - thanks for the input, could be im in the wrong with my thoughts on this, was just looking for others thoughts and it looks like its me who has this wrong and Ill get it resolved some way.

I do appreciate the thoughts on the scenario and I asked for the input.

thanks

Selling it via Wbac will save you the cost of having to change its injectors which you'll inevitably would have had to do at some point with it being a Caddy so the garage door has kinda done you a favour!
Silver cloud and all that!

RNP - thanks, really thanks 🙂 x

😀
In seriousness - I'd chat to the dealership and fess up saying you'd ****ed up and see if there's anyway they would take it back less a fee to cover their time and miles you've done in it. I'd possibly expect that to be less than the Wbac option depending on your relationship with the dealer and your interpersonal/blagging skills.

If I were you I would get real advice and negotiate with the garage based on that advice.  CAB or similar.  Maybe you are right and DSR apply maybe not - its not clear to me and not clear cut IMO

Option#2

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I think if you paid in full and signed the contract before seeing it in person then distance selling rules would apply.

If it was subsequently delivered on a transporter or collected in person I don’t see how that changes anything as the ‘sale’ had already occurred.

I’m assuming this is a used vehicle? So the only real loss to the garage is some hassle and another owner on the log book if they take it back.

I’d feel a bit bad if it was a small independent garage, but if it’s one of the big chains I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. They are a business and they will be used to this happening and can offset the loss on the occasional DSR return against the additional revenue and lower overheads of the distance sales.

Option3. Slam it! It's a caddy - it's going to end up on air ride suspension with banded wheels at some point, might as well do it now and get it under the garage door.

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Wonder how many people actually garage their cars for insurance purposes. I would imagine most cases of vandalism/break ins wouldn’t even get close to the premium.

Like TJ, I'm not sure either way that your situation counts as a distance sale. It was not delivered to you - you went to the dealership, saw it and took it away. Maybe it would have up to the point you drove it off the forecourt.....not sure.

As you say, lessoned learnt. Dimensions of vehicles are available online and tape measures can be bought 😉

Not just barn doors.

https://www.thegaragedoorcentre.co.uk/limited-headroom-solutions

Still going to cost a grand or two, but I presume you wanted a Caddy for a reason (interior height / space).

Is that really a life lesson or just a real serious f-up on OP’s part . I’ve never bought a car without first thinking it will fit where I want to store it.

Why did it then take 5 days to work out it wouldn’t fit in the garage? From day 1 op was being fraudulent on his car insurance by stating it was being kept over night in a garage .

If I were you I would get real advice and negotiate with the garage based on that

Isn’t this just a case of common sense and decency, op screwed up and bought the wrong car, he should go crawling back to the garage and hope they will only charge him £500 for hiring the vehicle for a week, or sell it to WBAC or just pay the extra insurance

Out of interest how much more is the insurance for not garaging it? I'm surprised it's a lot (I used to garage a car 15ish years ago but stopped as my garage started filling with bikes, informed the insurance company and the premium didn't immediately change and only increased a small amount the following renewal).

You said you’d tried some comparison sites - have you tried a van specialist like A-Plan? I found they were much cheaper than the general van comparison sites.

Up and over garage door... Will the car go in backwards, leaving the low bonnet more likely to be cleared by the U&O door as it closes.

Plan B. Darkside Developments do a simple rear axle flip kit and that would lower it a fair bit...assuming in principle you are after a Caddy and like the one that you have.

If there's enough clearance inside the garage get an internal roller shutter door. A Garolla is under a grand.

How tight is the garage door? I gained quite a lot of height when I swapped my up-and-over to an electric roller.
And joking aside - lowering the car will gain you an inch and at least when a caddy there’s plenty parts available to do so

Alternatively, very surprising your insurer wants the car in a garage. My insurer said they’d charge more if I put my transporter in the garage. Assuming there’s something particularly high crime risk about your postcode it might be worth checking if additional driveway security would lower the premium? A thatchem approved driveway post might be just as good as the garage?

I'd be checking with Trading Standards or some other consumer rights authority whether distance selling regs apply or not.

When I was arranging 5 day drive away insurance for my recent purchase, they wouldn’t insure me as I didn’t garage the car and didn’t have a gated driveway.
I swapped my previous insurance over to the new car and they didn’t have an issue.
As said above , a roller shutter could help. Not sure if the concrete lip will make a difference , but you can also get external mounted

I reinsured my caddy with Ford Insure yesterday, very competitive price, worth checking.

If you van has roof bars, they're easy to remove and will save you an inch or two.

Also surprised that garage storage saves cash - my understanding is that storing in garages leads to more claims thanks to all the dings and scratches caused by it being stored in a tight space.

Caddys are great (esp if you have an engine model where the injectors don't automatically pop), see if you can keep it.

But, vans are just expensive to insure...

As I read it the legislation, it's a distance sale if you committed to it and paid for it before physically seeing it. You can decide you don't want it when you see it at the dealer, or within the next 14 days. If you only wrapped up the sale when you collected it, there's no cooling off.

Irrespective of the legislation, if the sellers T&C say you can return it, you can. Have you asked them why they think otherwise?

If it's significantly not in the same condition, they can make a deduction. If you'd driven it 2000 miles, yes, but 100 miles, no.

Do the dealership have any other vehicles that fit in your garage?

The best way to limit your losses is to trade it back with them for another one of their stock.

OP my mate who used to be car salesman thinks that you may be correct.

The only thing to be careful about is whether you signed anything in the dealership?

But, vans are just expensive to insure…

And yet our shiny new 2.0tdi Transporter LWB camper is costing less on insurance than our Leon FR 1.4tsi...

Really surprised by the insurance re garage, garage parking has always been more expensive for insurance whenever I've checked.

Not sure that small dings and scratches would be claimed for, under your insurance.

The rationale usually given is that being in a garage gives the thief uninterrupted opportunity to break in, strip for parts, hot wire etc without being seen.

I'd suggest taking a tape measure next time you buy a car 😉 In all seriousness, how did it take you 5 days to work out that it doesn't fit? If you'd taken it back a few hours later it might have been a different story to 5 days.

This is definately a distance selling situation. It is very clear from the Motor Ombudsman's website provided all 'paperwork' and payment was completed before you picked the car up.

If they still won't play ball, see a solicitor. They can write a letter called a Letter Before Claim. It is a sort of warning shot and often resolves the situation but if it doesn't you may need to take them to the Small Claims Court (depending on the value). I know that sounds daunting but it isn't complicated and is designed to be accessible to people who aren't lawyers. In fact you can't recover legal costs so the presumption is that there won't be lawyers.

This is definately a distance selling situation. It is very clear from the Motor Ombudsman’s website provided all ‘paperwork’ and payment was completed before you picked the car up.

If they still won’t play ball, see a solicitor. They can write a letter called a Letter Before Claim. It is a sort of warning shot and often resolves the situation but if it doesn’t you may need to take them to the Small Claims Court (depending on the value). I know that sounds daunting but it isn’t complicated and is designed to be accessible to people who aren’t lawyers. In fact you can’t recover legal costs so the presumption is that there won’t be lawyers

Just because it may technically be within the realms of the law, doesn't make it right now does it ? IMO, it's not the dealers fault, it's not faulty, broken, damaged, or hidden issues... He's basically borrowed/hired the car for a week. If i were the dealer i'd be offering to take it back at £1000 difference in price.

Selling it via Wbac will save you the cost of having to change its injectors which you’ll inevitably would have had to do at some point with it being a Caddy

My pal had a horrible time with her injectors repeatedly failing, but IIRC it was only one of the engines afflicted by this problem (either the 1.6 and not the 1.8, or vice versa?).

Anyway, do look into the Caddy injector issue if you're likely to keep it after all OP.

And yet our shiny new 2.0tdi Transporter LWB camper is costing less on insurance than our Leon FR 1.4tsi…

maybe camper vans are different to panel vans. On average, for a given location/driver etc, an average panel van is more expensive to insure than an average car, because vans get broken in to to nick tools, they tend to have more powerful motors, they tend to have poorer visibility, and they tend to be involved in more accidents.

Anyway, this is largely irrelevant.

Just because it may technically be within the realms of the law, doesn’t make it right now does it ?

Well what's it for if not buyers remorse from seeing sight unseen?

Few people seem to take issue with CRC and their 365 day return policy and that's less money than a car.

maybe camper vans are different to panel vans.<br /><br />

Yeah my campers have always been pretty cheap to insure. Currently about £100 cheaper than our Golf GTI I think.

Well what’s it for if not buyers remorse from seeing sight unseen?

Remorse for me in this context is if it turns up with scuffed alloys, dents that were non disclosed, issues with dash lights coming on for engine issues, knocking suspension.

Not for "oh i don't like the seat colours" "it doesn't fit in my garage" "the radio doesn't get DAB stations as there's no signal where i live"

Afraid you picked it up, probably means it's not a distance sale regardless of how you arranged payment *BUT* if their contract states DSR-type conditions apply, this will apply anyway, you didn't lose the rights that the contract gives you.

When I bought my car remotely, I made sure they delivered. I didn't want to have to inspect and potentially back out on the spot, when I could sit at home and think about it for a couple of weeks.
Our garage has a couple of channels cut in the concrete floor, which puzzled me for a while until I guessed it might have been to give a bit of extra clearance under the door lintel. Any chance of doing that?

Our garage has a couple of channels cut in the concrete floor, which puzzled me for a while until I guessed it might have been to give a bit of extra clearance under the door lintel. Any chance of doing that?

add one of these active tyre pressure systems the big monster trucks have? drop the pressure to get in/out the garage? think laterally...;-)

A quick google for VW Caddy Injector Problem comes back with the 1.6tdi engine being the most common culprit.

If you like the vehicle and it is what you wanted, I'm sure there is a way to keep it one way or another.

Really surprised by the insurance re garage, garage parking has always been more expensive for insurance whenever I’ve checked.

I’ve just run a comparison with the meerkats and it’s 20% cheaper if I garage it.
I have 40mm gap in the opening either side with the mirrors closed though. 5.5m wide garage too.
Cars have got a bit wider since the 80’s 😁

Plus it’s full of crap 😂

Remorse for me

Alas you are not the arbiter of contract law.

When distance sellinv you can't reasonably expect someone to know exactly what they're getting. He could reject it for a number of reasons as mundane as just not being comfortable when driving, why is fitting it in the garage any different?

The seller has essentially backed themselves into a corner from what I can make out. They have explicity stated returns conditions and now want to back out of those conditions because it doesn't suit them. Sorry, but thems the breaks.

But, vans are just expensive to insure…

Are they?

I sold my Doblo van last year and was paying £230 a year with it living on my driveway overnight. 45 with 15+ years no claims, zero points on my licence.

You think you've got problems...my neighbour couldn't fit his Aston in the garage so he so he extended it by two feet (honestly) - then he found he when he parked it next to his Porsche the doors wouldn't open wide enough to get out....so he built a carport, put the Aston underneath that and put his Merc SLC next to the Porsche.....phew! all sorted

I have 40mm gap in the opening either side with the mirrors closed though. 5.5m wide garage too.

thats a really narrow door for a really wide garage? If you try to park something inside there with regular ocurrance you'll definitely be scratching it badly on the door frame on the way through

Just out of interest.  If a car is returned under the distance selling act, does that person end up as an additional owner on the car's log book or will the seller normally wait the 14 days before sending it to the DVLA?

Are they?

I sold my Doblo van last year and was paying £230 a year with it living on my driveway overnight. 45 with 15+ years no claims, zero points on my licence.

Yeah, generally - plenty of info on the web if you google 'are vans more expensive to insure', but I'm not gonna die on my sword about it.

But, as a final, not very interesting, personal anecdote, here's my experience from re-insuring my van yesterday.

My Caddy Maxi Kombi (5 door, 5 seat from factory) can be classed either as a car, or as a van, depending on which insurance company you call. Confused.com sees it as a car (they call it an MPV), GoCompare sees it as a van (er, they call it a van and re-direct me to their van comparison site).

NFU think it's a car, Adrian Flux thinks its a van (both quotes done over the phone)

The 'car' quotes started at £560, the 'van' quotes started at £1200. Same reg number, same no-claims, same address, same parking situation, same milage/business use case. Only difference being whether that particular insurer classes my Caddy as a car or a van.

You think you’ve got problems…my neighbour couldn’t fit his Aston in the garage so he so he extended it by two feet (honestly) – then he found he when he parked it next to his Porsche the doors wouldn’t open wide enough to get out….so he built a carport, put the Aston underneath that and put his Merc SLC next to the Porsche…..phew! all sorted

Best humblebrag ever. 😉

If you try to park something inside there with regular ocurrance you’ll definitely be scratching it badly on the door frame on the way through

Looking at the 360degree surround cams , it puts 2 lines on the ground going forwards and reverse (even with mirrors folded. If I paint lines on the floor it should guide me in nicely 😁

I’m hoping they will release an update so I can drive it in and out using iphone (seems to have all the hardware installed for it). Should make life even easier 😉

This is how you manage with a small garage<br /><br />

He needs to learn to go full dukes of hazard to get in and out of the car 😂

If you’ve paid for the car in full, and taken delivery of it, you have 14 days to change your mind....

You didn't take delivery of it.... You collected it.

What reason is the seller giving for refusing the return.

Looking at the 360degree surround cams , it puts 2 lines on the ground going forwards and reverse (even with mirrors folded. If I paint lines on the floor it should guide me in nicely

My Volvo V60 had this and I still managed to crash it into the wall on my first and only attempt to squeeze it into the garage. 😕

@kramer

Alas no - we live on a perfectly normal estate. His brother won 5 mill on the lottery abd keeps buying new cars and he gets his cast offs

I'm collecting a 66 plate Caddy Maxi this weekend, the insurance with all planned mods declared is not a lot more than my 62 plate Swift Sport, both kept on my driveway in Chatham.

I am adding a full set of deadlocks, but where do you live that the insurance goes up so much for keeping it on the drive?

If the payment was all done and dusted before collection, is still distance sale, i believe. Op would be within tights to return it.

Seems like the letter before whatsit from solicitor is required.

Alas no – we live on a perfectly normal estate. His brother won 5 mill on the lottery abd keeps buying new cars and he gets his cast offs

That £5m won’t be lasting long then!! 🤣🤣

And OP - did you get anywhere today?

Slightly baffled why you bought remotely when you are obviously close enough to visit the dealer?

Let's hope the OP doesn't buy a caravan...

@turin

Any updates!?

It's STW rules - you can't start a thread like this then leave us all hanging! 🤣

4 days and nothing? did the OP take the car back and it all got a bit medieval or something?!

If the payment was all done and dusted before collection, is still distance sale, i believe.

if he had turned up to collect and rejected it then, I’d agree. On taking it home, after seeing it for the first time, you’ve accepted it.

4 days and nothing? did the OP take the car back and it all got a bit medieval or something?!

I reckon he tried lowering the tyre pressures but not quite enough, got the van & himself stuck half in & half out of the garage.